Audio Improvements May Not be Ready for Gran Turismo 6 | Kaz Interview

[Johnnypenso]

The Real Update Simulator is a whole lot better than 'The Real DLC Simulator' though! *cough EA*

What if it's both?

 

[TokoTurismo]

I like how Kaz literally walks out and confirms that new sounds are being work on to be added in an update, just to inform his fans. And now look, it's somehow a problem yet again, saying GT6 is being released SOMEHOW unfinished, JUST by sounds...

You know, why does Kaz even bother, I just feel that people complain for the sake of it, as I said before many times...

 

[avens]

I like how Kaz literally walks out and confirms that new sounds are being work on to be added in an update, just to inform his fans. And now look, it's somehow a problem yet again, saying GT6 is being released SOMEHOW unfinished, JUST by sounds...

You know, why does Kaz even bother, I just feel that people complain for the sake of it, as I said before many times...

"Just by sounds"? Sounds are crucial in this genre and in videogames in general. I'd much prefer to have 100 less cars but a finished job in that department.

Actually I'd say better sounds is the second most requested thing by fans, the first being making all cars premium.

 

[eran0004]

Second time in a row PD releases an unfinished title. The scary part is this is 9 years in a row.

The real scary part is how you think it's "9 years in a row". Care to elaborate on that?

 

[TokoTurismo]

"Just by sounds"? Sounds are crucial in this genre and in videogames in general. I'd much prefer to have 100 less cars but a finished job in that department.

I understand that. It's just that at least Kaz came out to inform everyone about this. Is that bad? Would you rather the game delay just to get "perfect" sounds or what?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I like how Kaz literally walks out and confirms that new sounds are being work on to be added in an update, just to inform his fans. And now look, it's somehow a problem yet again, saying GT6 is being released SOMEHOW unfinished, JUST by sounds...

You know, why does Kaz even bother, I just feel that people complain for the sake of it, as I said before many times...

Really? You can't understand the frustration behind substandard game sounds? You can get PC games for free that have better sound. And I can see you are reading what you want to into Kaz's statement. He said, and I quote,

"There’s a good possibility that we might do this"...when referring to releasing sounds in a patch,

not, "confirms that new sounds are being work on to be added in an update"

With no definite answer or committment, we could easily be waiting until GT7 for improved sounds. It's pretty presumptuous on his part asking consumers to shell out $60+ in 2013 for a game with 1999 sounds.

 

[avens]

The real scary part is how you think it's "9 years in a row". Care to elaborate on that?

PD's main title is Gran Turismo on the Playstation home console of the time. By december 2013 PD will have released only two titles since GT4, both which are and will be unfinished at release date: GT5 and GT6.

I understand that. It's just that at least Kaz came out to inform everyone about this. Is that bad? Would you rather the game delay just to get "perfect" sounds or what?

Yes. Things like that have never ever happened in other comparable racing games (same business model and all), to the point it'd be hard to think of similar examples in all genres across gaming altogether.

In other terms, who changes sound entirely after the game was released in console gaming? No one.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Really? You can't understand the frustration behind substandard game sounds? You can get PC games for free that have better sound. And I can see you are reading what you want to into Kaz's statement. He said, and I quote,

"There’s a good possibility that we might do this"...when referring to releasing sounds in a patch,

not, "confirms that new sounds are being work on to be added in an update"

With no definite answer or committment, we could easily be waiting until GT7 for improved sounds. It's pretty presumptuous on his part asking consumers to shell out $60+ in 2013 for a game with 1999 sounds.

I don't play PC games, nor do I care for them. Even if Kaz said "possibility" and "might", I'm still glad he informed us. I bet everyone had expectations on new sounds at release, only to be left disappointed. You want that?

In other terms, who changes sound entirely after the game was released in console gaming? No one does.

So?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't play PC games, nor do I care for them. Even if Kaz said "possibility" and "might", I'm still glad he informed us. I bet everyone had expectations on new sounds at release.

Point is, if a game that's free can have better, more immersive sounds, why can't a game with a budget of $100,000,000? And what exactly did he inform you of. Here are different words with the exact same meaning:

"Just to let you know the sounds in GT6 will be the same as GT5, and at some undetermined point in the future, we might possibly change them"

 

[Pit Crew]

Funny thing is, we're all assuming this breakthrough they are working on will give us super realistic sounds in the future. What if it's just a slightly different version of the "too perfect" sounds we already have? Imagine the uproar!!

Might kind of feel like this:

👍 LOL 👍

 

[Conquerer]

Night racing has improved for Gran Turismo 6, though. "The dispersion of light from the headlights has advanced greatly from GT5 to GT6," said Yamauchi. "So night racing should be a lot better in GT6."

👍 Great to hear. Should make night racing much better and realistic.

It's ridiculous at times seeing where you're going in night races in GT5. Nurburgring just gets way too dark in some areas and when it rains... Even less visibility and it's more or less guessing where the road is. Once you've done enough laps it becomes simpler but still, it's just too dark and the headlights don't work properly like they would in real life. Le Mans isn't as bad but there's one or two spots where it's a bit dark and the headlights could be better.

I hope they fixed the issue on hills as well. Toscana course maker tracks with day to night are also rather impossible to drive properly on because the light just doesn't spread properly or even shine much at all on the actual road.

So I'm happy to know there are improvements here because it was a major issue for me in GT5.

 

[eran0004]

PD's main title is Gran Turismo on the Playstation home console of the time. By december 2013 PD will have released only two titles since GT4, both which are and will be unfinished at release date: GT5 and GT6

That doesn't make it 9 years in a row though. If you only have two points of data within a 9 year time-span, it's not 9 years in a row. For it to be 9 years in a row, you need to phenomenon to be repeated every year during that period.

And as a second point: No game is ever released "finished". There are always things that doesn't make the cut for various reasons. Some things are included in expansions, others in updates, some doesn't see the sun until the next title.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Point is, if a game that's free can have better, more immersive sounds, why can't a game with a budget of $100,000,000? And what exactly did he inform you of. Here are different words with the exact same meaning:

"Just to let you know the sounds in GT6 will be the same as GT5, and at some undetermined point in the future, we might possibly change them"

What do you mean "what he informed me of". He just informed the people PD are working on the sounds, that's informing if you don't get it. And about a game such as GT having a budget of $100,000,000 still not have good sounds, who knows...

By the way, cute picture, because I was getting excatly what you were saying.

Anyway I'm done arguring, don't have the time to deal with the crying...

 

[avens]

That doesn't make it 9 years in a row though. If you only have two points of data within a 9 year time-span, it's not 9 years in a row. For it to be 9 years in a row, you need to phenomenon to be repeated every year during that period.

The other way to call it doesn't sound much better though: since GT4, which was released in 2004, that PD doesn't release an acceptably finished GT series game.

And as a second point: No game is ever released "finished". There are always things that doesn't make the cut for various reasons. Some things are included in expansions, others in updates, some doesn't see the sun until the next title.

Of course, but cannot be as crucial as sounds in a racing game. It truly is like having Ryu at release date then Ken added in some patch afterwards, or having the 2004 2d sprites version of Ken in the mean time while the rest are in 2013 status, just for the game to be out in December. That's not a finished job.

edit: I have no idea how they are going to improve sounds so much in an update. That requires new samples altogether and major technical changes, both which shouldn't be done as a patch especially in a console game.

 

[alucard0712]

I hope new sound engine will be stunning as smoke for example (aka new level of realism). State-of-art damage model coming! ;-)

 

[HKS racer]

I like how Kaz literally walks out and confirms that new sounds are being work on to be added in an update, just to inform his fans. And now look, it's somehow a problem yet again, saying GT6 is being released SOMEHOW unfinished, JUST by sounds...

You know, why does Kaz even bother, I just feel that people complain for the sake of it, as I said before many times...

Thanks for proving me right.

They are not running for the money like SMS, ISI, SimBin, Kunos, if we want to be very pessimistic they know they'll still sell at least 3 milion copies. An unfinished product capable to deliver 3 milion copies is a business DREAM for every producer. Realstic prevision is something slightly lower than GT5 sales, wich still means 5 milion copies.

With these sales numbers they can troll in and out all their fanbase for years, since most of the people spending 60 bucks for GT6 will defend their purchase in the forums.

 

[eran0004]

The other way to call it doesn't sound much better though: since GT4, which was released in 2004, that PD doesn't release an acceptably finished GT series game.
Of course, but cannot be as crucial as sounds in a racing game. It truly is like having Ryu at release date then Ken added in some patch afterwards, or having the 2004 2d sprites version of Ken in the mean time while the rest are in 2013 status, just for the game to be out in December.

It does sound much better, because (assuming that everyone is entitled to their own opinion) that would be a true description. The other thing would be a false use of statistics.

As for the sounds, they aren't really all that bad. They lack some grunt, some cars has the wrong sample, the balance is a bit off... They could be better, but they're not awful (assumning again that everyone is entitled to their own opinion).

 

[djslofstra]

I think it's really sad but I really don't care much for engine sounds. I think it's quite funny that such a good game has crappy sounds. I hope there will be a patch though!
Give us 500 cars (only premium) with good sounds and I'll be devostated! I think the main problem is that PD isn't the biggest game studio.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

They are not running for the money like SMS, ISI, SimBin, Kunos, if we want to be very pessimistic they know they'll still sell at least 3 milion copies. An unfinished product capable to deliver 3 milion copies is a business DREAM for every producer. Realstic prevision is something slightly lower than GT5 sales, wich still means 5 milion copies.

With these sales numbers they can troll in and out all their fanbase for years, since most of the people spending 60 bucks for GT6 will defend their purchase in the forums.

Releasing an unfinished product is a nightmare for any business.If they happen to sale regardless they are "licking their chops". No business desire to release unfinished products, to assume this is their goal or what ever is completely unrealistic.Personally I don't think a game that can receive updates throughout the years would be considered unfinished or incomplete, as a game like this will always be an on going process,because it can always be improved.It will never be a "finished game".Most of the people defending their purchase,defend their purchase because they actually enjoy what they purchased.An unfinished game in your opinion and people defending their purchase are 2 completely different situations that has absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Of course, but cannot be as crucial as sounds in a racing game. It truly is like having Ryu at release date then Ken added in some patch afterwards,

No that would be the equivalent of GT6 having no sounds.

or having the 2004 2d sprites version of Ken in the mean time while the rest are in 2013 status, just for the game to be out in December. That's not a finished job.

That would be the equivalent of GT6 having GT4 sounds.Having played gt4 recently, that is not the case.Just because a game doesn't have something acceptable to your standards doesn't make a game unfinished.

 

[MoLiEG]

So people should stop calling this GT5.5 and more like GT5.25

Pretty much... I'll say it again: GT6 is just a facelift of GT5...

Looks like GT5 all over again, piss poor communication, broken promises and a half finished game.

Yep...

 

[NLxAROSA]

“There’s a good possibility that we might do this”
I think this is just the Japanese way of saying. "no"

There's a good possibility that we might introduce pink fairies in an update.

So we went from 'demo sounds are placeholders for release' to 'sounds at release are placeholders for update', awesome!

 

[avens]

That would be the equivalent of GT6 having GT4 sounds.Having played gt4 recently, that is not the case.Just because a game doesn't have something acceptable to your standards doesn't make a game unfinished.

GT4, GT5 and now GT6 sounds are unacceptable by 2013 standards. People here really should try other games/sims, some which are free.

I'm not asking for the best sounding racing game, just not an almost decade year old 'placeholder' which at the time of its release (2004) wasn't brilliant to begin with.

 

[Zer0]

By december 2013 PD will have released only two titles since GT4, both which are and will be unfinished at release date: GT5 and GT6.

"I've constantly found things in Gran Turismo which are not perfect and need to be improved," he says, "even as we kept updating online. It often occurs that, although I know what needs to be done, it can't be done because we don't have the time. It's frustrating."

The internet, meanwhile, has provided a new shop window for publishers to sell content packages for existing games, as the marketing battleground has gradually moved to downloadable product.

But for Yamauchi it has simply allowed him more space and time to sculpt his craft. Probably more than any other console racing game, GT5 has evolved significantly since its original release. Rather like an F1 car through the course of a season, the physics and gameplay have transformed during its shelf-life to the point where one update was actually entitled GT5 2.0.

"Online is endless," says Yamauchi. "We prepared so many online functions in GT5 but that does not mean it's enough. With online, you can add anything if the idea fits, and by doing so it encourages communication and makes online gaming fun as a result.

"In the past we had been releasing our products as a package. And we can only release one once in several years. But, being online, you can even update every day if you want to. In fact, I would like to update every day as I see the online activities of users – if we could."

 

[avens]

^It remains the exact same business model, with the main deadline being the release date of the disc to retailers.

Only some games are never finished even nowadays, such as iRacing and simraceway. They use a different business model than the GT series.
The GT games are just patched and updated, yet not in such a meaningful way as the mentioned titles are. GT5 2.0 was a marginal update compared to what GT5 1.0 delivered, which is not the case from iRacing 1.0 to iRacing 2.0 or to the current state (which would be like 4.0 if they put names).

 

[HKS racer]

Releasing an unfinished product is a nightmare for any business.If they happen to sale regardless they are "licking their chops". No business desire to release unfinished products, to assume this is their goal or what ever is completely unrealistic.Personally I don't think a game that can receive updates throughout the years would be considered unfinished or incomplete, as a game like this will always be an on going process,because it can always be improved.It will never be a "finished game".Most of the people defending their purchase,defend their purchase because they actually enjoy what they purchased.An unfinished game in your opinion and people defending their purchase are 2 completely different situations that has absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Yeah and the judge hit the hammer on the table. Sounds like an advocating attempt.

Enjoying something doesn't necessarily mean it has enough innovations to justify a 60 € price. For what is worth you can still enjoy GT5 racing without buing GT6. Some people may agree with a bunch of new cars, tracks and faster menu others may disagree, because they are legitimately expecting a GT4 style game with 2013 graphics and sound.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

GT4, GT5 and now GT6 sounds are unacceptable by 2013 standards. People here really should try other games/sims, some which are free.

I'm not asking for the best sounding racing game, just not an almost decade year old 'placeholder'.

Well honestly to me the standard seems like overly distorted,exaggerated sounds, which there's nothing wrong with.But its pretty obvious to me that PD wanted to go a different route with their sounds.Is it better or worse? That's subjective, and not up to you and a vocal few to determine .I mean I personally hate the sounds in all GT'S.You said 9 years in a row, I think its been 10+ years in a row.
However, to say just because I don't like the sounds, or that because they aren't better or similar to other racers throughout the years,to me means the game is unfinished or isn't up to a undefined set standard, is simply untrue.Its simply my opinion.In my opinion the game is more finished than a lot of games I play, so I wouldn't dare call it an unfinished game, especially over something so subjective as sounds.

Yeah and the judge hit the hammer on the table. Sounds like an advocating attempt.

Enjoying something doesn't necessarily mean it has enough innovations to justify a 60 € price. For what is worth you can still enjoy GT5 racing without buing GT6. Some people may agree with a bunch of new cars, tracks and faster menu others may disagree, because they are legitimately expecting a GT4 style game with 2013 graphics and sound.

I'm not really understanding what your saying,or your point here..

 

[HarVee]

So we went from 'demo sounds are placeholders for release' to 'sounds at release are placeholders for update', awesome!

And the update sounds are placeholders for the updated update sounds.

 

[Conquerer]

And the update sounds are placeholders for the updated update sounds.

From what I understand it's like this.

Demo sounds = placeholders for release

Release sounds = placeholders removed, new sounds added, quality similar to GT5

Possible update sounds = breakthrough in sound development

If you remember, many cars in GT5 demos sounded terrible with reused sounds -- Peugeot 905, Lambo Gallardo, etc. Those sounds were updated for the game to sound much better (although still not fantastic). So I expect GT6 will get the same treatment. For example, the Huayra that we've heard with the same sound as the Gallardo, I'm sure that's a placeholder (just as the Gallardo's sound itself once was). It will probably get its own sound for release, similar to the quality of GT5 sounds.

THEN, if PD ever do decide to update the sounds once they complete their breakthrough, the sounds will be improved from that.

Personally, I don't think we'll get them in GT6. His answer sounded like another form of "it's technically possible, yes." He was asked for an answer and he explained that it can be done, not that they have plans to do it. Will their breakthrough be done soon enough to have an early update (Q1/Q2 2014)? I doubt it. Just get it right for GT7 though.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

GT is slowly becoming "The Real Update Simulator".

Though it is great nowadays knowing that any mistakes can be fixed in future updates, it seems that PD are really starting to take liberties with this. I am not a programmer or sound guy of any kind, however, I just don't understand why this is such an issue to get done, and done correctly.

Do PD not have adequate sound engineers to take care of this on their own? If they can't handle it, then someone in charge really needs to find other options. Money is not an issue over there, that much I can guarantee. Outsource if you have to. For the love of God at least let the premium cars have premium sound, and update the rest later.

Oh God. Premium sounds. Please don't give them any ideas. The sad thing is that I can imagine them doing that.

 

[trustjab]

Didn't the HSV get an update for sound? As did tire wear update? Don't see whats unreasonable to believe sounds will be updated in gt6. It looks more like the new sound improvement is what he means. Not new sounds in general. This can mean new methods of recording or programming the game to reproduce the sounds.