Bioshock

[slackbladder]

BioShock Collectors Edition was dispatched at 10:30am UK time for me.

That's from Game right? Darn, I should've got it online.

And what's all this at neoGAF? Something to do with cropped 16:9 in Bioshock? I don't quite get the fuss of it. But then that's neoGAF. Honestly I think they're schoolgirls sometimes, always screaming about something...

 

[DuckRacer]

That's from Game right? Darn, I should've got it online.

And what's all this at neoGAF? Something to do with cropped 16:9 in Bioshock? I don't quite get the fuss of it. But then that's neoGAF. Honestly I think they're schoolgirls sometimes, always screaming about something...

Basically:

Game is rendered in 4:3, game is designed around a 16:9 perspective, 4:3 gets cropped to 16:9, you technically see less than people with 4:3. What it should be is that 16:9 is 4:3 with more viewable space to the side so 4:3 is technically cropped.

In other words, a minor niggle that's blown way out of proportion.

 

[slackbladder]

Thanks.
Yeah, not a problem. But it makes me want to play it in 720p and 4:3! LOL

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Basically:

Game is rendered in 4:3, game is designed around a 16:9 perspective, 4:3 gets cropped to 16:9, you technically see less than people with 4:3. What it should be is that 16:9 is 4:3 with more viewable space to the side so 4:3 is technically cropped.

In other words, a minor niggle that's blown way out of proportion.

Hmmm... If it was a PS3 game Duck would be screaming bloody murder.

After all, he rants over 30 fps vs 60 fps… despite the fact that almost all films are shot at 24 fps because the human vision system isn’t very sensitive to the difference in motion above 20 fps. On the other hand, unless one is legally blind, you are definitely going to see the difference between an image that isn’t cropped, and one that is cropped by 25%!!! 👎


However, is this cropping issue really true? I can't imagine a game of this caliber and in this day and age where most games have native 16:9 images and cropped 4:3 images they would do the opposite? Even GT4, which came out nearly three years ago was 16:9 native! It makes no sense.

This is especially true as the cropping, if true, is no small amount. We are talking about losing 25% of the image, and in a game like this where you have "enemies" coming from the ceiling, and crawling on the floor... cropping off the top and bottom of the screen means you not only are not seeing the "whole picture", but will have less time to react to enemies seen from above and below. 👎👎

BTW: Has anyone compared cut scenes between playing in 16:9 and 4:3 modes? Do they also crop the cut scenes?

Is this really confirmed that the game is natively 4:3 and cropped 16:9, or maybe someone is just having fun with photoshop?

 

[Solid Fro]

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/21/bioshock-widescreen-issue-causing-complaints/

Far from a "perfect" game. 👎

 

[G.T]

Far from a "perfect" game. 👎

Dude, as I explained earlier, 10/10 does not mean it's a "perfect" game.

 

[McLaren]

Basically:

Game is rendered in 4:3, game is designed around a 16:9 perspective, 4:3 gets cropped to 16:9, you technically see less than people with 4:3. What it should be is that 16:9 is 4:3 with more viewable space to the side so 4:3 is technically cropped.

In other words, a minor niggle that's blown way out of proportion.

Oh that's nice. I've started playing on my widescreen LCD to get a better picture and now I get to see some POS bar and all the HUD info overlaying each other?

I played the demo again, and the 50's vibe still throws me. But this really doesn't help me either.

Dude, as I explained earlier, 10/10 does not mean it's a "perfect" game.

No, but that means but when you give a game the highest rating, you imply there's also pretty much nothing wrong with it, and is near perfect. I'm still not seeing it in BioShock.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Oh that's nice. I've started playing on my widescreen LCD to get a better picture and now I get to see some POS bar and all the HUD info overlaying each other?

The bar shows what you don't see when you go widescreen.

 

[DuckRacer]

Hmmm... If it was a PS3 game Duck would be screaming bloody murder.

Cute.

After all, he rants over 30 fps vs 60 fps… despite the fact that almost all films are shot at 24 fps because the human vision system isn’t very sensitive to the difference in motion above 20 fps. On the other hand, unless one is legally blind, you are definitely going to see the difference between an image that isn’t cropped, and one that is cropped by 25%!!! 👎

"Rants over 30fps vs 60fps"? I was blasting EA Sports, not complaining about framerate like you think I am.

Is this really confirmed that the game is natively 4:3 and cropped 16:9, or maybe someone is just having fun with photoshop?

Nope, it exists. If you go over to the thread slackbladder linked to there's some people over at GAF doing TV comparisons proving this issue.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/21/bioshock-widescreen-issue-causing-complaints/

Far from a "perfect" game. 👎

Go away, troll. Apparently you conveniently missed the part where G.T pointed out 10/10 ≠ perfect.

I can't wait to see your reaction if BioShock gets announced for PS3.

Oh that's nice. I've started playing on my widescreen LCD to get a better picture and now I get to see some POS bar and all the HUD info overlaying each other?

No, that was photoshopped in so there's a comparison of HUD locations within the picture.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Unreal. You know what this means as well... a loss of 25% of the over-all resolution, as it's just scaled up to fill the 16:9 aspect ratio. 👎

4:3 FTW?





🤬


I'm still curious though, are the cut scenes also native 4:3?

 

[DuckRacer]

Unreal. You know what this means as well... a loss of 25% of the over-all resolution, as it's just scaled up to fill the 16:9 aspect ratio. 👎

4:3 FTW?





🤬


I'm still curious though, are the cut scenes also native 4:3?

Well, I'm not sure what you mean. Have you played the demo? With the exception of the first one (where you're in the plane when it's ready to crash), everything is purely gameplay with some minor tweaks in some instances. Like for example, in the Bathysphere you don't move but you watch a little movie, go through Rapture, etc, and you can look around. When you're walking into a glass tunnel, right before a piece of the plane crashes into it, the camera is controlled for a second to simulate you losing your balance. And other times you're forced to withdraw your weapon or walk instead of run so you focus on something going on. There's no real cutscenes in the game.

And because of that, the "cutscenes" are most likely 4:3 as well.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I was refering to the actual game, as I know many people bought it early and of course those that may have picked it up today and played it. I read that there are a few cut scenes in the game, although it sounds like they are most likely native 4:3 as well.

 

[McLaren]

Apparently, the developer made promises this wouldn't happen.
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659

Not a good move for any developer of any game of any situation to make a statement that turns out to be false.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Apparently, the developer made promises this wouldn't happen.
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659

Not a good move for any developer of any game of any situation to make a statement that turns out to be false.

That thread is going to get interesting... I wonder if 2K Games will lock it...possibly wipe it off the board entirely.

Just in case they do, here are the key posts:

How will the widescreen image be displayed?
Posted on 05-20-2007 by Laser Eyes on 2K Games' Forums

Laser Eyes:
Can one of the dev team on the PC version please explain the image adjustment from the standard 4:3 screen resolution to a widescreen resolution? Will it be the most desirable horizantal plus or the less attractive vertical minus? It surely wouldn't be a stretched image if it has native support.

What I mean by this is will the picture displayed on a widescreen monitor at a resolution of say, 1680x1050, show all of the image that would appear on a 4:3 monitor plus additional field of view on the sides? Or will the widescreen picture simply have the top and bottom cut off and show less image than what would appear on a 4:3 monitor?

If you don't understand what I mean then have a look at this excellent article which discusses these concepts:

http://www.techwrighter.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=59&Itemid=44



Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock:
The game will render in full 16:9 aspect ratio, with no letterboxing unless your resolution is not true 16:9.


Laser Eyes:
That's good Chris, but it doesn't really answer my question.

Unless the image is stretched then there must be a different image between a 4:3 display and a 16:10 (typical ratio for PC) widescreen monitor.

Going to a widescreen resolution there will either be additional image displayed on the sides - ie horizontal plus (the best); or the width of the field of view will remain the same but image will be lost from the top and bottom - ie vertical minus (not as good). Can you say which it will be?

Let me ask in another way. My question relates primarily to the PC version of BioShock. Since it's a "Games for Windows" branded game it must support normal 4:3 resolution, and also 16:9 and 16:10 widescreen resolutions, according to Microsoft's GfW technical requirements.

Let's say I run the game on a 4:3 monitor at 1024x768. If I stand in a certain position in game and look in a certain direction I will see a certain image. Now let's say I run the game on a widescreen monitor at 1680x1050; I stand in exactly the same position and look in the same direction. What do I see? On the widescreen monitor do I see everything I saw on the 4:3 monitor plus more on the sides; or have the top and bottom parts of the normal 4:3 image been cut off to produce a widescreen image?


Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock:
You will see more in widescreen. We use a different projection matrix; there is no squashing or stretching of the image involved.


Jeff:
-froths- That's awesome, so many times I've seen widescreen end up being more agitating than anything.... Now there's absolutely no excuse for me to not get a new t.v. specifically for bioshock.


Laser Eyes:
Perfect! Thanks for doing widescreen resolutions right in this game!


Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock:
Folks, don't fret, there's no letterboxing in 4:3, nor in 16:9. The game will use the most bad-ass resolution available to your video card and monitor.

That last remark from Chris Kline had me really scratching my head. Bioshock is native in 720p and at 4:3 that makes it 960x720... if he thinks that is "the most bad-ass resolution available to your video card and monitor" he has some serious explaining to do! Has he never even heard of 1920x1080??? 👎

 

[Solid Fro]

Dude, as I explained earlier, 10/10 does not mean it's a "perfect" game.

2+2 ≠ 4. Whatever, man.

Go away, troll. Apparently you conveniently missed the part where G.T pointed out 10/10 ≠ perfect.

I can't wait to see your reaction if BioShock gets announced for PS3.

You don't have to wait very long.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/bioshock-ps3-rumor-rekindled-by-code-291944.php

I'm still unimpressed. I don't want to play it, please attack me.

You know what? Maybe I will go away like a dumb troll. I try to express my opinion about a flawed review system and game and I basically get chastised for speaking out. I try to push away the bull**** some of you rub all over the game to get at what is really behind the idiotic scores and why a defective and mundane Bioshock is being defended vigorously.

I don't know anymore, I really don't.

 

[DuckRacer]

I'm still unimpressed. I don't want to play it, please attack me.

You know what? Maybe I will go away like a dumb troll. I try to express my opinion about a flawed review system and game and I basically get chastised for speaking out. I try to push away the bull**** some of you rub all over the game to get at what is really behind the idiotic scores and why a defective and mundane Bioshock is being defended vigorously.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/search.php?searchid=1533923

You've made your opinion, you explained it, and if you dropped it then we wouldn't care anymore. Instead, you decided to make several more posts in here bashing the game, and at that point you're going to be labeled a troll.

It's fine to have an opinion and think BioShock is overrated and mundane, and explain your thoughts like you did. However, it's not fine to keep on droning about it after the explanation.

 

[slackbladder]

Worms. Can. Of. Opened. A. I've.
I must admit I don't know why the game isn't native widescreen if other games are (like GT4). I can only assume that as it was developed for PC at the same time as the 360 (and because the majority of PC monitors are 4:3 - I assume) they decided to render the game in 4:3. Does this only effect the PC game? What about on the 360 (or PS3)?

:idea:Anyway, who's playing it?

 

[DuckRacer]

Worms. Can. Of. Opened. A. I've.
I must admit I don't know why the game isn't native widescreen if other games are (like GT4). I can only assume that as it was developed for PC at the same time as the 360 (and because the majority of PC monitors are 4:3 - I assume) they decided to render the game in 4:3. Does this only effect the PC game? What about on the 360 (or PS3)?

:idea:Anyway, who's playing it?

I think this is effecting the 360 version. Dunno about the PS3 version.

 

[McLaren]

It's fine to have an opinion and think BioShock is overrated and mundane, and explain your thoughts like you did. However, it's not fine to keep on droning about it after the explanation.

Yet, it'll be perfectly fine to keep hyping this game thinking it does all kinds of new things, right?

I don't see the fame behind BioShock. Nothing in it is exactly innovative. Powers like Telekinesis and the such have been done before. Ancient locations with a mystery and weirdos has been done before. All I'm really seeing in BioShock is just mixing a bunch of ideas, and somehow, people get this perception that it's new.

In fact, BioShock really reminds me of Doom 3 if anything. Just the whole dark atmosphere and exploring.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Wow... the 2K Games' Bioshock Forum is lighting up with lots of complaints, and not just on the cropped widescreen issue (of which there are several threads already, one with 500 posts just today) and the lower resolution. Apparently there is also no anti-aliasing, which the developers had said Bioshock would support. Lots of people are also reporting game crashes, and several gameplay glitches have already been found... and this is just the first day the game has been out.

I have a hard time understanding how all the reviewers who gave this game such high marks failed to identify any of these issues, especially the cropping and lower resolution of the widescreen mode VS 4:3 - I guess this is a reminder that all it takes to be an "expert" and "qualified" game reviewer is having a website or magazine willing to publish your reviews. 👎

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, Gamespot did give Bioshock a 9.0, and generally speaking I'd say they're the most "realistic" in terms of non-BS reviews. I am interested to see what EGM gives it as well, as they tend to rate rather fairly as well.

I haven't purchased the game yet (money for books and paying for this computer is killing me), but I plan to. The demo was impressive, and I plan to give the PC demo a try on this entertainment/gaming rig. We'll see what happens.

But, alas, I'm still waiting for Halo 3, so that says a lot about me I assume...

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Bought the game and played for at least 3 hours last night. It is everything that I expected and a lot more. I dont want to say much because it really is way to easy to spoil the game. Lots of surprises and so far I am LOVING this game!!!! It definitely has the feeling of Condemned and Half Life 2 mixed into 1 game. Thats about the best description I can give to explain the feeling of playing Bioshock.
Currently I am going through the game on easy rescuing the little sisters. I plan on going through this game another time on medium and another time on the hardest setting once I finish it in easy. I am taking my time and really searching every single room I enter. Also enjoying the graphics in each room and all the detail. Bioshock easily lives up to the hype. My only complaint which is very minor is the fact that the water "reacts" very cheesy. It "looks" incredible but he reaction is disappointing for a game completely under water. Its a minor complaint that doesnt ruin the game at all.
Heather will be playing this during the day and I will be playing at night when I get home.

 

[G.T]

Here's the interesting GT review. 9.5:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23825.html

 

[Zrow]

2+2 ? 4. Whatever, man.



You don't have to wait very long.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/bioshock-ps3-rumor-rekindled-by-code-291944.php

I'm still unimpressed. I don't want to play it, please attack me.

You know what? Maybe I will go away like a dumb troll. I try to express my opinion about a flawed review system and game and I basically get chastised for speaking out. I try to push away the bull**** some of you rub all over the game to get at what is really behind the idiotic scores and why a defective and mundane Bioshock is being defended vigorously.

I don't know anymore, I really don't.

Reviews are one guy's opinion of a game - it's not some unbiased system of judgement. Lots of people think the game is worth a what they consider a 10/10 to be - an unparalleled gaming experience.

Don't agree? Cool! You're still not correct about their opinion and rating of the game.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Reviews are one guy's opinion of a game - it's not some unbiased system of judgement.

100% agreed. In addition, when reviewers make no mention of obvious flaws, both technical and gameplay wise, then one must also consider that their opnion is also flawed, and thus their reviews hold less value.

 

[G.T]

Reviews are one guy's opinion of a game - it's not some unbiased system of judgement. Lots of people think the game is worth a what they consider a 10/10 to be - an unparalleled gaming experience.

Don't agree? Cool! You're still not correct about their opinion and rating of the game.

Agreed!

It's a little dissapointing that these issues have popped up, especially the widescreen one. But it's not something that will take away anything from my experience unless it starts locking up randomly. Reviewers should have taken this into consideration, but some might have not received the lock-ups or didn't even notice the widescreen issue (which, to be honest, not a lot of people would because not everyone is like us...).

 

[Mark T]

What's the official release date for the UK?

 

[Pebb]

It comes out on Friday Mark.

 

[Mark T]

Good work. I'll rent it first just to make sure I enjoy it.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

It's a little dissapointing that these issues have popped up, especially the widescreen one. But it's not something that will take away anything from my experience unless it starts locking up randomly. Reviewers should have taken this into consideration, but some might have not received the lock-ups or didn't even notice the widescreen issue (which, to be honest, not a lot of people would because not everyone is like us...).

But then they shouldn't be reviewing games in the guise of being some kind of authoritative and experienced source of information. Once again, this only further supports the opinion that many, if not most of those reviewers lack the knowledge, understanding and ability to properly review games. It is not to say that all their opinions are worthless, but rather it casts a serious shadow of doubt to their credibility as reviewers.