"Blue Devil" News: Test Details Roll In

[///M-Spec]

The CGT is made, like almost all LMP cars, of a carbon-fiber monocoque, which is by definition, a unibody. The 'exoticness' of the CGT construction comes mostly from the material, which in turn allows designers to do things you can't with high strength steel. But it's still a unibody, just not in the sense that a Civic or Cobolt is a unibody.

Nice pic of the Vette. For some reason seeing that makes me want to attach some Fiero body panels to it



I think ZR-1 would be a cool name for the Blue Devil.


M

 

[YSSMAN]

Name wise, I'm still crossing my fingers for the 'ZL1' name to return, but if this is going to be larger than a 427ci V8, they're going to need something different.

 

[inferno]

I believe we may have a case of terminology confusion here, but this picture clearly shows the Vette's frame.



The Vette is a body on frame design. I don't know much about the CGT but if it is a cf tub (ie structural body panels) to which engine and suspension cradles mount then it is the unibody.

Unibody = external panels are structural members of the car
Body on frame = all extranl panels can be removed to reveal the frame, which mounts all the running gear.

I agree that the CGT has a design more suited to a fast, light nimble vehicle than the body on frame design but that has it's own advantages.

Woah. Thats freaky indeed. But sory, thats not a body on frame chassis. With a body on frame design the "body" and floor pan are one piece and sit directly on an independant chassis, usualy designed of two longitudinal rails joined by crossmembers, otherwise known as a "ladder frame chassis" The vettes construction is definately different but it's not body on frame, those hydroformed rails are a part of the upper structure. the entire thing is one piece. (yes i know it's multiple parts bolted together but it's not two independant structures) In my book thats still a unibody. And the only reason why i say "my book" is because chevrolet may not agree with me on that.

But to sum all that up:
Unibody = All internal components form one complete structure, body panels attach to the outside of that structure.

body on frame = Floor pan and "frame" are one unit, body panels attach to outside of frame, entire body assembly attaches to an independant chassis structure.

Feel free to correct me, but i'm letting my part of this discussion end with this. Now back to the sweetness that is this supervette.

[EDIT]
After reading the rest of the thread i conceed that i was mistaken in my statement that the CGT is NOT a unibody however the centiment remains the same. It's core structure is lighter and stiffer than the vettes. That said, *crosses his fingers in hopes that this new vette dominates the supercar world*

 

[skip0110]

Feel free to correct me, but i'm letting my part of this discussion end with this. Now back to the sweetness that is this supervette.

👍 I see where you are coming from. The Vette is certainly built quite a bit differently from your typical ladder frame truck.

 

[McLaren]

z06 - 3.4 from C/D test. 3.7 claimed from Chevrolet.

SLR- 3.6 seconds from a C/D test. 3.8 claimed from Mercedes.


I'm pretty sure the Z06 wins there.

Top Speed -

Z06- around 200 mph, can't get a hold of a number...

SLR - 208 mph

Nürburgring time.

Z06 - 7:42.99 by Jan Mangussen

SLR - 7:4x:xx by Klaus Ludwig

Not too big of a difference for less than 1/4 the cost....

I'm failing to see how the Vette wins anywhere in your small comparison.

1. Both claims still lead the SLR is faster.
2. On Top Speed, the SLR is definately faster.
3. You time for the SLR is unfinished. You don't know if the SLR is 7:40 or 7:41.

Being so, again, where is it the Z06 wins?

A simple matter, Chevy is just trying to build hype. Any car enthusiast knows the odds of a 650Bhp Z06 touching a Carrera GT is just too unrealistic.

 

[Joey D]

It wins on price, it's going to be around $100k which when compared to a $400k SLR is a cheap car. I would hope the more expensive car would be faster and more comfortable in all honesty, because if it wasn't why the hell would Mercedes be charging so much for it.

 

[ExigeEvan]

It wins on price, it's going to be around $100k which when compared to a $400k SLR is a cheap car. I would hope the more expensive car would be faster and more comfortable in all honesty, because if it wasn't why the hell would Mercedes be charging so much for it.

Well if the "Blue Devil" drives on the road anything like a ZO6 then the SLR will win on ride hands down.

I'd also be interested to see how the cars measure up in 0-100-0 as the SLR is renowned for it's braking ability.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well if the "Blue Devil" drives on the road anything like a ZO6 then the SLR will win on ride hands down.

I'd also be interested to see how the cars measure up in 0-100-0 as the SLR is renowned for it's braking ability.

On the ride thing, once again, it isn't that bad, and since the first run of Z06s, GM has changed the suspension on the car for a slightly less jarring ride and better capability around the track... And even then, its only the crazy Europeans who have been complaining about the ride, as I have yet to see an American magazine criticize it. As a matter of fact, Car and Driver had even alluded to the fact that it may have been too road oriented...

So hows that for stupid comparisons?

On the issue of 0-100-0, I don't recall seeing figures for the Z06. I know that 0-100 is rated at 8.3 (a bit slower than the SLR) seconds, and will brake 70-0 in 153 (compared to 161 for the SLR) feet. Not too bad for a $70,000 car by comparison to the $455,000 SLR, and beyond that, thats only the Z06. Throw an extra 150 BHP under the hood, and I'd be willing to bet that the Chevy will outdo even the 722.

 

[skip0110]

On the ride thing, once again, it isn't that bad, and since the first run of Z06s, GM has changed the suspension on the car for a slightly less jarring ride and better capability around the track... And even then, its only the crazy Europeans who have been complaining about the ride, as I have yet to see an American magazine criticize it. As a matter of fact, Car and Driver had even alluded to the fact that it may have been too road oriented...

Agreed. The UK magazines seem to be the only ones complaining, which really surprises me, because they typically love Audis, which are even less stiffly sprung in the US and still criticized for their ride harshness.

 

[Dave A]

It's not like the mags and TV shows here just don't think it's the best either, they think it's absolutly terrible on the road. Most quite firmly stating that if you want a Vette you will use every day, avoid the Z06 at all costs and go for the regular C6.

 

[YSSMAN]

Most folks around here see the Z06 and 'standard' C6 as damn-near interchangeable with minor differences in terms of overall useability. Granted, I think we have more suspension options here than you do, with the 'standard,' Magnaride, Z51 (the best, IMO), and Z06 offerings. The biggest gripe with the Corvette has always been the tires, as they are run-flats.

 

[JCE]

My gripe of the Corvette is definately not the tires...it is infact the ride. C4, C4 Grand Sport, C5, C5 ZO6, C6, and the C6 ZO6 are all horrible in the ride department. It is mainly due to the suspension I suspect, leaf springs--no matter how "advanced" GM claims they are are still horrid for ride quality. That along with the tires and low ride height make a Corvette alot more uncomfortable than a rock. But, when you buy a Corvette you don't care about comfort--you care about POWAH!!!

 

[Joey D]

If you buy a Z06 I think the last thing on your mind is how comfortable it is to drive down the road. You are more worried about beating the hell out of the punk kid next to at a light or something. Most people who buy Z06's do not drive them everyday (you can't in Michigan seeing as we get 4 months of snow). They are more of a weekend/nice day car or for the more bold a track car.

 

[JoshB1984]

Is it true they make mid engine for Blue Devil? I did read something about MR Vette on Internet. I might wrong.

 

[Joey D]

There was rumors that the Corvette would be mid-engine for the C7 model, but I think that got squashed. GM wouldn't do that.

 

[YSSMAN]

If you buy a Z06 I think the last thing on your mind is how comfortable it is to drive down the road. You are more worried about beating the hell out of the punk kid next to at a light or something. Most people who buy Z06's do not drive them everyday (you can't in Michigan seeing as we get 4 months of snow). They are more of a weekend/nice day car or for the more bold a track car.

Actually, I see quite a few C5 and C6 Z06s around as semi-daily drivers, C5s in particular. Of course, we're crazy in this state, and there are guys who will drive their Vipers and Shelby GT350s nearly every day, so yeah...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Agreed. The UK magazines seem to be the only ones complaining, which really surprises me, because they typically love Audis, which are even less stiffly sprung in the US and still criticized for their ride harshness.

Which UK mags have you been reading? In both Evo and Car, Audis are constantly slammed for their overly-stiff ride and lack of any decent dampening. I know my girlfriend's mom's last-gen A6 rides fine, but it's on smaller 16's. The only Audis I've seen that haven't been criticized as too harsh are the RS4, mk2 TT and the R8 (which isn't much of an Audi anyways).

As for the American magazines not complaining about the Z06's ride... are you really surprised? That's like UK mags not gushing about the XJ or Land Rovers.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Agreed. The UK magazines seem to be the only ones complaining, which really surprises me, because they typically love Audis, which are even less stiffly sprung in the US and still criticized for their ride harshness.

The Audi S-lines re quite well known for their pretty hard rides.

If you buy a Z06 I think the last thing on your mind is how comfortable it is to drive down the road. You are more worried about beating the hell out of the punk kid next to at a light or something. Most people who buy Z06's do not drive them everyday (you can't in Michigan seeing as we get 4 months of snow). They are more of a weekend/nice day car or for the more bold a track car.

Then the Z06 makes even less financial sense over here as you can get a similair, if not better, performing Caterham/Westfield/Ariel for a fraction of the price.

And I'm sure the Ariel which you revieve undercuts, out accerlerates and out handles the Z06 aswell. Though perhaps lacks the top end speed.

 

[Joey D]

Yes the Atom beat the Z06, but it also beats most things that are not supersport bikes, it will hit 60 in 2.6 seconds. But then again a lot of people wouldn't want to drive around a street legal go-kart of obvious reasons and I'm not even sure if they are street legal in the states.

But since I do not live in the UK I can't speak for how the Z06 is over there, plus I think they are just imported by privateers, not by GM.

 

[Dave A]

The Ariel Atom 2 300 lapped the TopGear track in 1'19.5, the Z06 in 1'22.4. So if comfort is the last thing your thinking of if your in the market for a Z06 then the Z06 get's raped in both track performance and price by a hell of a lot of cars. Corvettes are supposed to be day to day sportscars, not track only monsters. Comfort and ride quality still has a big part to play in a car in the Corvettes market. The TVR Sagaris is amuch better road car than the Z06, and Noble M15 even more so, a car that is within 1/10th of a second on the TopGear track to the Z06. The Ferrari 360 stradale is more of a track focused car than the Z06, but that still doesn't chuck ride quality out of the window. I'm not saying the Z06 did chuck it out of the window, but I am saying, the same people who've driven all these other cars all seem to agree that the Z06 is notably worse.

And how the Z06 get's here is of little importance, it's the same car regardless. The only difference between the corvettes here and in the US is the branding, in the US the brand is Chevrolet the model is Corvette C6, here the brand is Corvette the model is C6.

 

[skip0110]

Which UK mags have you been reading? In both Evo and Car, Audis are constantly slammed for their overly-stiff ride and lack of any decent dampening. I know my girlfriend's mom's last-gen A6 rides fine, but it's on smaller 16's. The only Audis I've seen that haven't been criticized as too harsh are the RS4, mk2 TT and the R8 (which isn't much of an Audi anyways).

As for the American magazines not complaining about the Z06's ride... are you really surprised? That's like UK mags not gushing about the XJ or Land Rovers.

Pretty much Top Gear and the opinions posted here are what I see of the British motoring press. So yeah, my sources might be little biased (aka Poverty and Clarkson)

Then the Z06 makes even less financial sense over here as you can get a similair, if not better, performing Caterham/Westfield/Ariel for a fraction of the price.

And I'm sure the Ariel which you revieve undercuts, out accerlerates and out handles the Z06 aswell. Though perhaps lacks the top end speed.

You cannot seriously be comparing the Z06, a car which comes with cruise control, a rear defogger, power door locks, remote start, leather, a head up display, theft deterrent, tire pressure monitoring, OnStar, six way power driver seat, autodimming mirrors, and two driver memory to Caterhams, Westfields and Ariels (or Nobles, for that matter). Compared to those cars the Z06 is like a Jaguar. For the same price Ariel is selling you some chrmoly tubes, a seat, and an engine. No comparison, ride be damned.

 

[Dave A]

No he wasn't, he was making a point that comfort IS a factor even in a Z06. It was stated that comfort is the last thing on your mind in a Z06, if that's truely the case then a Z06 is pointless when you can get a car that exploits it's lack of comforts that is both faster and cheaper. As for Nobles, the M15 is a very nice car, with a nice interior. You can't compare Nobles to Caterhams if you can't compare a Corvette to them.

 

[skip0110]

No he wasn't, he was making a point that comfort IS a factor even in a Z06. As for Nobles, the M15 is a very nice car, with a nice interior. You can't compare Nobles to Caterhams if you can't compare a Corvette to them.

Sorry, I forgot about the M15 (but that's about twice the cost of the Vette, at least in the US). The smaller Noble is a better comparison, and probably a close call, outclassing the Vette in ride/handling but coming in second in the thrust department. As to the interiors, materials quality is probably similar but I think the Vette is better equipped. Build quality would go solidly in the Vette's favor.

 

[Joey D]

Also don't forget you can actually find dealers that sell Z06's and services them, as well as honors warranties. If I bought a Nobel I would first have to find a place that sold them (an importer no doubt) and when it broke down I would be SOL since there wouldn't be a place to service them, and even if I did find a place it would cost an arm and a leg. It would be worth it just to buy the Z06 and have dealer service support. Not to mention a mechanic that wouldn't look at it funny.

 

[Dave A]

The Vette I believe is better equippped than an M15, but not by a huge margin, the M15 doesn't have things like the HuD and remote starter, but it has all the usual gubbins. The Price isn't a different here as it is in the US, the M15 is more expensive, you can pick up an M15 for aound £70k ($140k), the Z06's for around £60k ($120k).

EDIT: Joey, it's the other way round over here, it'd cost more to get your Z06 repaired and serviced than your Noble.

 

[YSSMAN]

Also don't forget you can actually find dealers that sell Z06's and services them, as well as honors warranties.

At least for me, that is one of the greatest reasons to pick the Chevy over most other sports cars of the same caliber. With a dealer network in excess of 7500 dealers in the US alone, getting parts won't be a problem anywhere in the country. Beyond that, the Corvette uses a lot of pieces from other vehicles as well (take that as you wish), so it would be pretty hard to be stuck anywhere waiting for a part...

BTW: Car and Driver did compare the Z06 to the GT3, Exige S and brought along the M400, Atom 2, and Brock Coupe (read Cobra Coupe Replica) just for the hell of it. The Corvette won the 'normal' car comparison, and was only bested by the Atom around the track.

Out of the six there, I'd take the Vette first (no surprise), then the Roush-powered Brock Coupe, and the Porsche would probably round out the top-three.

...It all comes down to personal tastes, national opinions and such when it comes to deciding what car does the best at the given test. It is quite obvious that Europe doesn't care much for the Z06 as a regular car, while many Americans see it as not only capable, but an acceptable way of doing things...

It may be anyone's guess, but I'd care to assume that the 'Blue Devil' (now rumored to officially be named Z07) will be applauded for on-track use, and probably won't be well-liked on-road. But who cares? If the Z06 was our first foray into supercardom, the Z06 should be our way of 'cold-coking' our friends from Europe and Japan.

 

[JCE]

If you buy a Z06 I think the last thing on your mind is how comfortable it is to drive down the road. You are more worried about beating the hell out of the punk kid next to at a light or something. Most people who buy Z06's do not drive them everyday (you can't in Michigan seeing as we get 4 months of snow). They are more of a weekend/nice day car or for the more bold a track car.

You didn't address the bulk of my arguement. The REGULAR Corvettes aren't exactly a comfy sofa either. The ride quality in a regular Corvette is still appauling in my opinion. Not as bad as the ZO6 models no, but not good either.

Actually, I see quite a few C5 and C6 Z06s around as semi-daily drivers, C5s in particular. Of course, we're crazy in this state, and there are guys who will drive their Vipers and Shelby GT350s nearly every day, so yeah...

If someone drives their OLD ORIGINAL GT350 daily then they need to be shot in the face.

The Vette I believe is better equippped than an M15, but not by a huge margin, the M15 doesn't have things like the HuD and remote starter, but it has all the usual gubbins. The Price isn't a different here as it is in the US, the M15 is more expensive, you can pick up an M15 for aound £70k ($140k), the Z06's for around £60k ($120k).

I'd spend the extra 10k quid and buy the Noble. I just find that car facinating and quite beautiful.

 

[Joey D]

What suspension did the C6 have that you rode in or drove? There are several different options you can get as YSSMAN pointed out a few post back.

 

[JCE]

What suspension did the C6 have that you rode in or drove? There are several different options you can get as YSSMAN pointed out a few post back.

I've only driven the base C6 and the base C6 convertable. I've rode in a new C6 ZO6 but have not driven one yet...YET. I'd pay money for someone to let me drive one. 👍

I can say that the C6 is much improved over my old C4 I owned and the C5's I've driven.

 

[YSSMAN]

I've only driven the base C6 and the base C6 convertable. I've rode in a new C6 ZO6 but have not driven one yet...YET. I'd pay money for someone to let me drive one. 👍

I can say that the C6 is much improved over my old C4 I owned and the C5's I've driven.

The big problem most people have with the Vette's ride largely comes from the tires, and I've said it again and again and again, and yet nobody seems to get it. Its a simple fix, and a lot of people do it. Swap out the Goodyears for a new set of Perellis or whatever, and I'm sure you'll be ecstatic with the 'new' ride.

Personally, I've yet to encounter a 'base' C6, as almost every model sold in Grand Rapids and every person I know who has a C6 either bought into the Magnaride option, or went (the smart way) with the Z51 package. I didn't think it was all that bad personally, but maybe its because I'm comparing it to an 11-year-old Jetta in terms of quality...

...Either way, depending largely on if my Grandfather's neighbor decides to sell his C6 (a 2005 Magnaride Convertible in Burnt Orange), I may have a better opportunity to be with one. My Grandfather really wants to buy it, but he doesn't know if he wants to 'deal' with the T56. Oh, and did I mention that the 'Vette has less than 1000 miles on it?