- 7,153
- killermrk
- KillerMRK2
"Blue Devil" News: Test Details Roll In
- Thread starter YSSMAN
- 1,199 comments
- 54,946 views
- 40,874
Which is a pretty odd supposition, as the SLR doesn't really "destroy" the current Z06. Whether it can destroy the Super Z06 is probably fallacy, to be regulated to the SLR 722. Maybe.
Considering how GM is about to throw away everything they have worked for in the past 5 years and probably recede into bankruptcy soon after, I'm both surprised and glad that GM is continuing with the Blue Devil.
ND4SPD
Premium
- 8,479
- Guelph ON
- JeffZ28
- Jeff C6R
Yes, the viper is coming back in 08 with 600hp. Its still gonna be made.
But that is still going to be standard on every viper, I'm still hoping for an even more powerful version to come out, as a big F YOU to GM....GTS/R to return anyone?
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Destroy is too strong a word, the SLR is a quicker car than the current Z06 on and off the track, but I don't think it'll be quick enough to beat this, the SLR 722 probably will though as I'm pretty sure the Carrera GT won't be bettered. The Carrera GT is a phenomianlly fast car on a track, on topGear it was 1 second quicker than the SLR, at the Nordschleife it was 12 seconds faster, I'm not convinced that a 650bhp Vette will lap the ring in 7'28.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
It is, but that never entered into what was being said. If you want a Grand Tourer like the SLR, a Vette is not going to be on the cards. You might consider a flagship Aston Martin instead. There's no point arguing which is better value for money, the Z06 or the SLR, they arn't bought by the same people except maybe the odd one who might have both. The better value car is the Honda Civic. It will get you to work and back in about the same time as it would take in an F50.
- 9,089
- Scotland
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
If you'd care to read the posts above mine, I didn't choose the comparison, it was a comparison of performance and performance only between the two cars and it was already being talked about. Infact, it was instigated by YOU and then you turn around and say why compare the two
. Anyway, as Toronado said the SLR does not destroy the Z06, it just beats it by a pretty consistent but by no means big margin.
- 9,089
- Scotland
If you'd care to read the posts above mine, I didn't choose the comparison, it was a comparison of performance and performance only between the two cars and it was already being talked about. Infact, it was instigated by YOU and then you turn around and say why compare the two
my point is that they are comparing it to something the vette isnt gonna touch,and the slr point was to compare it to a current production car,the current z06 is nowhere near the performance of the slr and the slr/722 will still be faster than the "super" vette.gm are aiming way too high
- 40,874
The Z06 is around .1 seconds slower to 60, and .2 seconds slower to 100. The braking numbers are also similar, but I can't quote them as I don't remember them (I think the SLR brakes faster. There was a huge argument over it involving Poverty, I think). The Z06 weighs 450 pounds less. It has 120 less BHP. The fact that they are so well matched despite the weight and BHP differences (with the SLR being somewhat faster, but always somewhat faster) tells you of the performance similarities.
Now add about 100 pounds to the Corvette and give it the exact same horsepower of the SLR 722 (which means it will have the same power, but weigh 300 pounds less. It will also have more tire than the SLR 722). The only thing on paper keeping the Super 'Vette from blowing away the SLR 722 is traction. Which it has more of.
- 7,153
- killermrk
- KillerMRK2
z06 - 3.4 from C/D test. 3.7 claimed from Chevrolet.
SLR- 3.6 seconds from a C/D test. 3.8 claimed from Mercedes.
I'm pretty sure the Z06 wins there.
Top Speed -
Z06- around 200 mph, can't get a hold of a number...
SLR - 208 mph
Nürburgring time.
Z06 - 7:42.99 by Jan Mangussen
SLR - 7:4x:xx by Klaus Ludwig
Not too big of a difference for less than 1/4 the cost....
- 5,178
- Worcester, MA
- skip0110
I've got the December 2005 C&D Z06 vs. Viper article here. The Z06 was a preproduction vehicle for this test I believe. I'll reproduce the test numbers:
0-60: 3.4 s
0-100: 7.8 s
0-150: 17.9 s
1/4 mi: 11.8 s @ 125 mph
5-60: 3.8 s
30-50: 9.0 s (top gear)
50-70: 8.8 s (top gear)
top speed: 198 mph
C/D observed mpg: 18
lateral g: 1.01
braking 70-0: 144 ft
trunk space: 22 cu ft
price as tested: $67,845
- 6,769
- Little Elm, TX
- JCE3000GT
If the new "Blue Devil" beat the Carrera GT I will be surprised. When driven correctly the CGT is one of the best track cars around.
Like what's been said so far, the stock SLR doesn't "destroy" the current ZO6--so what makes you think with much more than 100bhp added on the new Vette won't make it "destroy" the current SLR? Besides, this is apples and oranges. SLR is a GT car and the ZO6 is a sport coupe.
Agreed, with everything here except I'd get to work faster in the F50--unless I'd hit a tree.
+2
If you'd care to read the posts above mine, I didn't choose the comparison, it was a comparison of performance and performance only between the two cars and it was already being talked about. Infact, it was instigated by YOU and then you turn around and say why compare the two
+3
We've all seen anywhere from 3.4s-3.9s for the ZO6 from 0-60mph/0-62mph. I'd say 3.6s is a more realistic "average" number for everyday road/weather conditions.
I think the Blue Devil will be fantastic for GM, a worth while car that sells for over $100k USD MSRP. The XLR-V is a joke at over $100k, this thing will not be.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
On a few of the current topics:
- The question of comparing the SLR to the Z06 was done by myself to prove a point to Poverty a few months ago, and the numbers were nearly identical. The only major advantage had by the SLR was in straight-line speed, as around most tracks the cars were neck-and-neck. Certainly however, the SLR will outrun then Z06 in top-speed (207 versus 198 MPH, although I've heard of Z06s going well-north of 200 MPH), and the breaking distances are a bit split, but that comes down to the use of carbon and the big flap versus the more 'regular-grade' brakes on the Vette.
- Acceleration times, at least from what I have read most often are right around 3.6 seconds with a mid-range clutch-dump and full-runs to redline. Most 'average' folks who don't have a lot of experience with the T-56 or much less a small-block Chevy in general probably can expect times a few ticks higher, but even then, the differences between them and the SLR really are not that vast. Depends on the weather, the elevation, etc as to who would win there, IMO.
- Track times may be a bit different these days given the updated suspension that was placed under the Z06 this year. I believe damping rates were improved to better ride quality and to quash the 'twitchy' nature of handling at-the-limit, noted in the most-recent test of the Z06 by Car and Driver. One more time, its probably going to come down to the driver, the track, and what the weather is like...
---
Either way, I'm not sure why there is anything to argue about here. Adding another 150 BHP to the Z06 is certainly going to spell trouble for the hyper-exotics out there, particularly when the car will still be available for half the price of an F430, a sixth of the price of a 722.
...Shooting for the Carrera GT, at least in my opinion, is a worthy benchmark. The good thing about the CGT was that Porsche had the balls to build a supercar the way they were meant to be: Derrived from race-spec performance pieces, enough luxury to keep most people happy, and best of all it did without a lot of the unnecessary crap found on other exotics...
Without the Ford GT on-sale in the US, we're pretty much without a full-production supercar of sorts. Granted, there is always the Saleen S7 and Mosler MT900S, but they aren't serviceable at several hundred dealers across the US, much like this Vette will be...
- The question of comparing the SLR to the Z06 was done by myself to prove a point to Poverty a few months ago, and the numbers were nearly identical. The only major advantage had by the SLR was in straight-line speed, as around most tracks the cars were neck-and-neck. Certainly however, the SLR will outrun then Z06 in top-speed (207 versus 198 MPH, although I've heard of Z06s going well-north of 200 MPH), and the breaking distances are a bit split, but that comes down to the use of carbon and the big flap versus the more 'regular-grade' brakes on the Vette.
- Acceleration times, at least from what I have read most often are right around 3.6 seconds with a mid-range clutch-dump and full-runs to redline. Most 'average' folks who don't have a lot of experience with the T-56 or much less a small-block Chevy in general probably can expect times a few ticks higher, but even then, the differences between them and the SLR really are not that vast. Depends on the weather, the elevation, etc as to who would win there, IMO.
- Track times may be a bit different these days given the updated suspension that was placed under the Z06 this year. I believe damping rates were improved to better ride quality and to quash the 'twitchy' nature of handling at-the-limit, noted in the most-recent test of the Z06 by Car and Driver. One more time, its probably going to come down to the driver, the track, and what the weather is like...
---
Either way, I'm not sure why there is anything to argue about here. Adding another 150 BHP to the Z06 is certainly going to spell trouble for the hyper-exotics out there, particularly when the car will still be available for half the price of an F430, a sixth of the price of a 722.
...Shooting for the Carrera GT, at least in my opinion, is a worthy benchmark. The good thing about the CGT was that Porsche had the balls to build a supercar the way they were meant to be: Derrived from race-spec performance pieces, enough luxury to keep most people happy, and best of all it did without a lot of the unnecessary crap found on other exotics...
Without the Ford GT on-sale in the US, we're pretty much without a full-production supercar of sorts. Granted, there is always the Saleen S7 and Mosler MT900S, but they aren't serviceable at several hundred dealers across the US, much like this Vette will be...
- 5,178
- Worcester, MA
- skip0110
I wonder if the SRT team will attempt to one-up the super Vette by taking a page from Hennesey's playbook and pumping that ancient V10 full of boost.
Frankly the V10 is better suited to boost than any Gen IV engine (they lift the heads at around 10 psi), so if they go that route it could be trouble for GM's team.
Frankly the V10 is better suited to boost than any Gen IV engine (they lift the heads at around 10 psi), so if they go that route it could be trouble for GM's team.
- 1,128
I honestly think they could match the Carrera GT. Yeah. the corvette is not the same type of car to begin with. It's a typical unibody car just like most every car on the road including the F430 etc, and the CGT is a cf masterpiece, but keep in mind that the corvette is allot smaller than the CGT too. i think if they went that route (stripped interior, race car for the street) they could get the Vetts weight down to around that of the super exotics like the CGT and enzo. Plus the small block archetecture is a remarkably compact and light package, with that and the rear mounted transaxle i dont think they will have a problem making the current chassis light enough and balanced enough to compete with those cars. 650 hp is enough to play with the big boys too. Give it enough rubber and your all set.
What They need to NOT try to do is play with cars like the SLR, Ferrari 599, and Murcielago. There is no way GM can match those cars for luxury, so in a way aiming higher is a smart move. GM, I say stay away from the GT cars and do what you do best. Build a stripped out track car and go chasing the super exotics.
What They need to NOT try to do is play with cars like the SLR, Ferrari 599, and Murcielago. There is no way GM can match those cars for luxury, so in a way aiming higher is a smart move. GM, I say stay away from the GT cars and do what you do best. Build a stripped out track car and go chasing the super exotics.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Get this: I was reading the C/D source article about the car, and there were some interesting details given by Lutz and the crew:
So, 650 BHP is a decent guess on the LS7-based engine, and with 700 BHP as a distinct possibility (as it would seem), I can't begin to imagine how stupidly fast this car will be. For $100K, it is going to be very hard to find a 'better' high-performance car.
C/D
So, 650 BHP is a decent guess on the LS7-based engine, and with 700 BHP as a distinct possibility (as it would seem), I can't begin to imagine how stupidly fast this car will be. For $100K, it is going to be very hard to find a 'better' high-performance car.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Which is not a benefit over the Carrera GT for high speed performance. If the car has a narrower track then it won't corner as stable as a wider track, if the car is shorter in lenth then it won't be as stable at speed in general. Not that the Vette won't corner well or be stable at speed, just that it won't be as stable or corner as quick as it would if it matched the CGT's track and lenth. Another factor would be the CoG, something I think the CGT has the Vette beat with as well.
- 1,128
Yes, this i am fully aware of, but overall weight and weight distribution play a bigger role in "limit performance" than track width and wheelbase do. Sure, it may not be as stable and controllable but that dosnt mean it wont be as fast. you just have to know how to drive it.
As for the vertical center of gravity (i assume thats what you meant) i'm not so sure. the CGT uses a V type engine does it not? If so then i'd say the corvettes CoG is probably just as low if not lower, thanks to the vettes OHV engine, compared to the CGTs DOHC mill. If the CGT has a boxer engine however, then of course i would expect the opposit.
- 1,128
The Vette z06 has a plastic body, cf fenders, and cf/balsa wood floorboards on an aluminum frame. It uses at least as many composites as the CGT. It's not a unibody.
Er, actualy it is. The chassis section up to the firewall is a one piece job, with the engine compartment being a separate sub frame. No different than any other car on the road including many high end cars like the afore mentioned F430. Sure it's got those hydroformed alluminum rails/reinforcements, but still it's a unibody. What i was refering to about the CGT is it's chassis. Cars like these are usualy based on some kind of CF tub, a much stiffer and lighter design than a normal unibody. Thats what makes cars like the CGT and enzo so much faster than "regular" sports cars and it's what the corvette dosnt have, and will never have. Thats the vettes biggest disadvantage here. But like i said before, i believe it is overcomeable.
[EDIT]
whoops double post. Didnt realise that when i quoted skip separate. >_<
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
All of this new info sounds interesting, but I wanted to take a look at this in particular. I was always under the impression carbon brakes have very little to do with braking distances under the normal mag-test conditions. Carbon/ceramic brakes have roughly the same stopping power (from what I remember), it's just that their optimal operating temperature range is both higher and far larger than the normal steel setup. So when it comes to a magazine taking a few stops down from 60 or 100, I don't think the McMerc's carbon setup is really aiding the numbers. I always thought carbon brakes were used more because of their endurance qualities, which would make more sense as most track-oriented cars lean towards it.
Anywho, just thought I'd figure it out in here, heh. As for whether or not a new uber-Vette will be able to match the hypercars, I give an emphatic "maybe". It just might with the numbers, but we know that means little in that area, and because of it's origins, it will never be considered on a world level as anything other than a hyper-powered sports car. But I applaud GM for having the guts to go forward with this.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
It's no good having a car with perfect weight distribution if the car isn't stable, it's still not going to corner well. Bear in mind, I was not saying that the Vette would be unstable, just that the size issue doesn't play in it's favour. As for weight, just because the Vette is smaller doesn't gaurentee it will be lighter. The Vette's chassis weighs more than the CGT's carbon tub does.
Engine placment, the engine in the CGT is very low down and the cylinders run at a shallow bank as opposed tot he 90 degree bank in the Z06's engine. Ofcourse they might not be that different, but the CGT is a lower car overall, I'd assume it had the lower CoG.
- 5,178
- Worcester, MA
- skip0110
I believe we may have a case of terminology confusion here, but this picture clearly shows the Vette's frame.
The Vette is a body on frame design. I don't know much about the CGT but if it is a cf tub (ie structural body panels) to which engine and suspension cradles mount then it is the unibody.
Unibody = external panels are structural members of the car
Body on frame = all extranl panels can be removed to reveal the frame, which mounts all the running gear.
I agree that the CGT has a design more suited to a fast, light nimble vehicle than the body on frame design but that has it's own advantages.
