"Blue Devil" News: Test Details Roll In

[Mt. Lynx]

No-factory support is what it kept them out. The car's not bad in the FIA, but it definately needs more support in the plant. Reiter can only do so much.

I´ve heard unconfirmed rumors that Audi will give them some support. Hope so, it´s a beautiful car, and the more the marrier too!

Well, you do know BMS Scuderia Italia has been spotted at Sebring testing. If they do race, the Corvettes may be in for a battle from the FIA GT DBR9.

I don´t think they´re in for the full season, but it should be fun to watch anyway. But I have a feeling BMS Scuderia don´t stand much of chance

Oreca, from what I hear, is supposed to be taking their time making sure the Viper can compete with the other class. I think it's a waste, and that they should go for the Vettes.

That´s what I felt too, but I can understand Oreca aswell. GT2 is way cheaper than GT1. But on the other hand, the Viper has the proper power for GT1, infact, I think they´ll have to tone it down to apply to GT2 regulations!

 

[McLaren]

I´ve heard unconfirmed rumors that Audi will give them some support. Hope so, it´s a beautiful car, and the more the marrier too!

I don´t think they´re in for the full season, but it should be fun to watch anyway. But I have a feeling BMS Scuderia don´t stand much of chance

That´s what I felt too, but I can understand Oreca aswell. GT2 is way cheaper than GT1. But on the other hand, the Viper has the proper power for GT1, infact, I think they´ll have to tone it down to apply to GT2 regulations!

True, it is cheaper. I just hope it holds the same success it does in the FIA GT3 Championship, were it usually dominates the Z06-Rs and DBRS9s.

 

[harrytuttle]

Ehm, both McLaren and Porsche won outright in GT1 during the late 90´s...

Which makes sense, because they basically were the LMP class before it was officially introduced in 1995. Properly developed LMP cars exist until Audi & Pescarolo started dominating, thus giving way to the aging-but-highly-developed GT1-class cars. Audi has proved that development & experience is more important than being new when they beat the top-spec Pescarolo's with the then-ancient R8 in 2005.

And I was really just talking about near-road-going cars like the 60's Daytona Coupe & Ferrari's (like the C6R closely resembles the C6). Those cars really do not have a chance against the LMP's.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Which makes sense, because they basically were the LMP class before it was officially introduced in 1995. Properly developed LMP cars exist until Audi & Pescarolo started dominating, thus giving way to the aging-but-highly-developed GT1-class cars. Audi has proved that development & experience is more important than being new when they beat the top-spec Pescarolo's with the then-ancient R8 in 2005.

And I was really just talking about near-road-going cars like the 60's Daytona Coupe & Ferrari's (like the C6R closely resembles the C6). Those cars really do not have a chance against the LMP's.

And who won Le Mans in ´95? McLaren did! ´96 and ´97, LMP1 TWR´s won, and in ´98 a Porsche 911 GT1 won outright. The first LMP1 came in 12th that year though, so there must have been something fishy...´99 a BMW V12 LMR won. Before ´95, we had a Dauer 962 LM in ´94, wich was a modified Group C car in essence, and before that was all group C. Info courtesy of racingsportscars.
The McLaren F1 is well known, and so is Porsche 911.

You mean they didn´t exist until Audi/Pescarolo came along? I do consider the BMW V12 LMR a true LMP though, but I can agree in that point. The GT1 cars were not aging at that point though, the fact is, they were brand new. The McLaren F1 GTR (or LM) won Le Mans on its first try, and the 911 GT1 on its second.

The GT1 class of today stand little chance against the LMP1 cars though. They have similar top speed, but the superb aerodynamics, much lighter chassis and overall more high-tech equipment in the LMP´s are too much for the GT1 cars.

Just for fun: Laptimes taken from Mid-Ohio Sports car course, ALMS:
Fastest laps in a race:
LMP1 Zytek 04S 1.12:592
LMP2 Lola B05/40-AER 1.15:957
GT1 Corvette C6R 1.18:810
GT2 Porsche 911 GT3 RSR 1.23:131

These times were set 2005, during the same race in May.

 

[YSSMAN]

New news on the "Blue Devil" project...

A limited-edition Corvette producing somewhere around 600 horsepower will arrive in summer 2009 as a 2010 model, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said in a new interview.

"There is a distinct appetite for something beyond the Z06 in performance, beyond the Z06 in exclusivity and beyond the Z06 in price," Lutz told Automotive News.

GM has long been rumored to be working on a more powerful Corvette project known as Blue Devil, Sting Ray, Z07, or SS. Back in May, GM's head of performance cars Tom Wallace confirmed the car was under development.

Lutz' statement is the first confirmation of a timeline for the new Vette's introduction. At the Detroit auto show, he said GM would produce an answer to the 600-horsepower 2008 Dodge Viper SRT10. GM would "not take that lying down," he said.

Lutz said Corvette has "taken on the character of a brand" and can support several models. The current top-of-the-line Corvette is the 505 horsepower Z06, which rockets to 60 mph in 3.6 seconds. Chevrolet produces 3,000 Z06s annually. The new model would be even lower volume.

As we inch closer and closer to production, you have to constantly wonder what exactly it is that GM is planning to do. One day it is 650 BHP, now it is "just" 600 BHP, and what had originally started as a fun idea, is now a car to respond to the 600 BHP Dodge Viper.

Don't get me wrong, I still want one. But I wish GM would just stop dragging their feet, build-up the LS7, strip out every unnecessary "luxury" item, and sell it as a race-car for the street.

...Still, it sounds like we're getting close. And I'm looking forward to seeing the preproduction model...

 

[Tornado]

Me? I want the LS7 tuned up to 700BHP or some silly number, so it would rev like a TVR or something.

 

[YSSMAN]

...And thats the thing...

How hard could it be to crank 650-700 BHP out of the LS7 with minor modifications? The C6-R does it just fine, with minor mods, so why can't we have a street version? Sure I suppose there are some limitations, but it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. Given the outrageous number of GM tuners, not to mention the rather knowledgeable guys on hand at GMPD, there shouldn't be a problem here.

Either way, these cars are going to be unquestionably rare, even more so than the "regular" Z06. I'd guess maybe a 1000 year, and that may be a stretch. But to establish the car and the brand as one of the many cars as a standard in the industry.

...But yes, I do agree, I want to see some TVR versus Z06 stuff going on in the near-future...

 

[skip0110]

Every engine GM cranks out from the lowly 3500 V6 to the LS7 must pass the same durability tests, which include, among other things, 300 hours at WOT with the load cycling between the peak power and torque rpm's, and flushing the 250 deg F hot engine coolant with coolant that is -40 deg F while the engine is running.

It's not easy to get a race motor or tuner motor to hold up under conditions like that.

 

[Philly]

If you are looking for that kind of performance, I say you should be looking for a track car or a different, European, V-12 powered supercar. At least, for the next few years.

I am really excited for this new corvette. It just seems so long to wait. The suspense is killing me. Can't wait for R&T to drive it or even see one on the roads!

 

[McLaren]

The "limited-edition" part leads me to believe it'll just be a special model set to run with the Viper.

It doesn't look like it's actually producing a new model. It's almost like, "Yeah, the new Viper is fast, but we'll produce something just as fast. But we can sub it for the curent Z06."

Because unlike what I'm getting, Dodge is replacing the Viper with this engine unlike Chevrolet who just seems to make the Z06 and a special model.

 

[YSSMAN]

Because unlike what I'm getting, Dodge is replacing the Viper with this engine unlike Chevrolet who just seems to make the Z06 and a special model.

Wait, what? I'm not sure where the problem is in that. Its pretty much how Chevrolet has done things with the Corvette and the Camaro for decades. A new more powerful competitor comes along, you take your best car, throw a few add-ons, and make it a better car again.

I think the term "special edition" is getting taken a bit out of context here. We've got a "special edition" Z06 on sale this year (Ron Fellows edition), but this new model would only build upon what the Z06 did. I would think of it more as what the Porsche 911 GT2 is to the 911 Turbo, or the Ferrari Challenge Stradale to the standard F430. A hyped-up racing model based on a model allready meant for racing.

...Chevrolet doesn't need to reinvent the wheel with the car, they just need to update it enough to give it the ability to squash the Viper once again...

 

[Tornado]

Because unlike what I'm getting, Dodge is replacing the Viper with this engine unlike Chevrolet who just seems to make the Z06 and a special model.

Flawed comparison, because the Viper is essentially confirmed to be the exact same car with a bigger engine. We don't know the extent of the changes Chevrolet will do to the Super Z06 at the moment.

 

[McLaren]

Wait, what? I'm not sure where the problem is in that. Its pretty much how Chevrolet has done things with the Corvette and the Camaro for decades. A new more powerful competitor comes along, you take your best car, throw a few add-ons, and make it a better car again.

I think the term "special edition" is getting taken a bit out of context here. We've got a "special edition" Z06 on sale this year (Ron Fellows edition), but this new model would only build upon what the Z06 did. I would think of it more as what the Porsche 911 GT2 is to the 911 Turbo, or the Ferrari Challenge Stradale to the standard F430. A hyped-up racing model based on a model allready meant for racing.

...Chevrolet doesn't need to reinvent the wheel with the car, they just need to update it enough to give it the ability to squash the Viper once again...

That's what I'm saying. Unlike Dodge, whose just going to fully replace the 500Hp Viper with the 600Bhp, Chevrolet is just going to make a special model of the Z06 to go against it instead of just making the 505Hp Z06 to a 605Bhp.

 

[Tornado]

That's what I'm saying. Unlike Dodge, whose just going to fully replace the 500Hp Viper with the 600Bhp, Chevrolet is just going to make a special model of the Z06 to go against it instead of just making the 505Hp Z06 to a 605Bhp.

Oh, that's what you meant. Okay, ignore my post above.

 

[skip0110]

That's what I'm saying. Unlike Dodge, whose just going to fully replace the 500Hp Viper with the 600Bhp, Chevrolet is just going to make a special model of the Z06 to go against it instead of just making the 505Hp Z06 to a 605Bhp.

As YSSMAN posted earlier:

Lutz said Corvette has "taken on the character of a brand" and can support several models.

So thats why they are doing things the way they are, they want a whole lineup of options under the Corvette "brand" rather than just one or two choices.

 

[McLaren]

Still, it just seems kind of like Chevy's saying, "We can be bothered to make the current Z06 compete with the new Viper, so we'll just make a new model of the Z06."

 

[Tornado]

Still, it just seems kind of like Chevy's saying, "We can be bothered to make the current Z06 compete with the new Viper, so we'll just make a new model of the Z06."

But why would they need to? Making another Corvette "trim" makes it so the Z06 is still relatively affordable and allows the Corvette to more easily cover the whole spectrum.

 

[McLaren]

But why would they need to? Making another Corvette "trim" makes it so the Z06 is still relatively affordable and allows the Corvette to more easily cover the whole spectrum.

Good point as always.

But I guess it just kind of seems that Chevy is just going to make another model because of the Viper, and not anything else. I know you guys have already gotten what I'm tryin' to say, but it's just my opinion right now until I see further news.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, was the new Viper not created in response directly to the Z06? I mean, it had to be a bit disappointing to Team Viper that their car wasn't top-dog in America anymore following the beating it received from the Ford GT, and later the Z06...

 

[McLaren]

Well, was the new Viper not created in response directly to the Z06? I mean, it had to be a bit disappointing to Team Viper that their car wasn't top-dog in America anymore following the beating it received from the Ford GT, and later the Z06...

Again, good point, but this report for now from GM is telling me they can't be arsed to go ahead and make the 600Bhp for more than just competing with the Viper.

Don't forget, Dodge may have created the new Viper to respond to Chevy, but they've also created it to start keeping up with the Germans. Chevy though, just seems intent on wanting Dodge, and nobody else with this because they're keeping the 505Bhp Z06 for everyone else, and 605Bhp just for Dodge.

Do you see what I'm tryin' to get at?

 

[Dave A]

Imo Chevy are doing the right thing, you have to remember that any more performance modifications to the Z06 will affect the price, it will go up. By offering a higher performance version as a limited model they are offeeing the extra performance for the higher price to the people that want it and can afford it, but they are also keeping the huge performance bargain that is the Z06 in the same purchase market as before. The higher marketed the car, the lower the sales generally speaking. BMW sell more 3 series than 5 series and more 5 series than 7 series. Likewise Cheverolet sell more standard C6's than Zo6's, and they will likely sell more Z06's than this new 600bhp model regardless of limited production or not.

 

[YSSMAN]

Given that they are building only 3000 of the Z06's, I'd assume that there would be at most 1500 of the "Z06-R" models. Thats supercar rarity there, and I like that notion for the Corvette. I just hope they take out all of the unnecessary crap that we don't need in the car, make it even lighter, and a bit faster.

Even if they charged $100,000 for the "Z06-R," I can't see Chevrolet having any problems selling them. It still screams as a deal compared to any other sports car, even more so when compared to the $100,000 Cadillac XLR.

 

[McLaren]

Given that they are building only 3000 of the Z06's, I'd assume that there would be at most 1500 of the "Z06-R" models. Thats supercar rarity there, and I like that notion for the Corvette. I just hope they take out all of the unnecessary crap that we don't need in the car, make it even lighter, and a bit faster.

Even if they charged $100,000 for the "Z06-R," I can't see Chevrolet having any problems selling them. It still screams as a deal compared to any other sports car, even more so when compared to the $100,000 Cadillac XLR.

Again, good points. Maybe it's just my way of thinking being applied in the wrong form. However, if what is true about Dodge reportedly marking this vehicle only $10,000 more than the SRT-10 right now, I think Chevy might lose its big "bargain-sports car" deal over the Viper.

BTW, I think you mean the XLR-V, and oh, I guarantee you this won't be the Z06-R.

 

[YSSMAN]

Yes, I did mean XLR-V. Oops. As for calling it the "Z06-R," it is the best name I can come up with at the moment, but likely won't be the one made for the production car.

...As for the Viper, even with "only" $10K added to the price tag, it is scratching at $100K. I don't know if $100K would be the magic number for the "Z06-R," but it seems like a reasonable estimation.

 

[McLaren]

Yes, I did mean XLR-V. Oops. As for calling it the "Z06-R," it is the best name I can come up with at the moment, but likely won't be the one made for the production car.

...As for the Viper, even with "only" $10K added to the price tag, it is scratching at $100K. I don't know if $100K would be the magic number for the "Z06-R," but it seems like a reasonable estimation.

Well, I was just saying Z06-R won't be it since Callaway already makes Z06-Rs for the FIA GT3 Championship.

As for the price, imho, this time around it'll be an all out battle, and as well, the Corvette won't be declared the winner with the reason of being cheaper, but being faster (if it is; sorry, I'm just a big Dodge guy out of our 3 companies). It just kind of annoyed me to read that in most comparisons, the Z06 was reported a better car because of it being cheaper. I mean, yes, technically, that is a reason for it to be better, but the magazines shouldn't go into a 5 sentence paragraph talking just about the pricing being the reason.

Either, next year should be a time to watch. Question is, can Chevy put the new Corvette out by the time Dodge rolls out the Viper which could very well be the end of this year?

 

[YSSMAN]

Time frame wise, that I'm uncertain of. The question is likely to what extent GM has had to modify the Z06 to make this new model. If it is just a matter of increasing engine output, stress and emissions testing becomes and issue... I'm also sure that a lot of work is being done with suspension dynamics, possibly even aerodynamics, and I'm sure a reworking of the interior is in order as well.

The last-ditch showings likely come at New York in April, although GM could surprise us and show something at one of the European Auto shows not too long from now.

What wouldn't surprise me would be GM waiting for the 600 BHP Viper to hit the streets, seeing what they have done, adjust accordingly, and have the "Super Z06" ready for early next-year. It is hard to tell.

...Because it is likely that GMPD isn't doing the development (they are likely knee-deep in the CTS-V, HHR Sport, Astra Red-Line, as well as the G5 and G8 GXP.), Team Corvette is likely doing a lot of the work. But with time shifting towards the ALMS season, who knows what exactly will happen.

The good news is that something is happening, and we are getting the news slowly, but new new nonetheless.

 

[YSSMAN]

More (good) Blue Devil News:

Engineers at General Motors are putting the finishing touches on the forthcoming "Blue Devil" Corvette, according to Vice Chairman Bob Lutz. Although new government emissions regulations have put future rear-wheel-drive GMs in jeopardy, the Blue Devil won't be affected.

“That one is too late to stop. That’s almost finished. It’s in the final stages of tuning,” Lutz told Car and Driver in a recent interview.

Lutz said development of the vehicle has been a challenge. "This thing has so much power […] We’re really into a speed and power realm that General Motors has never been in before. We’re way up there with Porsche Carrera GTs and Ferraris.” Lutz said predicable handing and safety are top priorities.

Lutz would not give a specific horsepower rating, but he said matching the Viper SRT10's 600 hp would not be "satisfactory." As for 700 hp, Lutz said that would be a "stretch." In other words, expect the new Corvette to be somewhere in between.

C&D reckons the Blue Devil will arrive on the auto show circuit in early 2008 as a 2009 model. Automotive News previously quoted Lutz as saying the more powerful two-seater would arrive in summer 2009.

Possible names for the production Blue Devil include Corvette SS, Z07 or Sting Ray.

Hotness! Well, if they're shooting for the Carrera GT, that gives you a pretty wild idea of what we can expect in performance. The thought of a 200 MPH+ production Corvette makes me wet in some places, and trust me, thats a good thing. Even if they charge $100K and only build a 1000 of them a year, I can guarantee that dealers will jack the prices up, and they will still sell every-single one.

Sweet.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

aiming for a car that isnt made anymore? way to keep up to date gm!

slr will still destory it.

 

[skip0110]

Wow, they mean serious business. 👍

EDIT: If lots of people start complaining in the same fashion as the post above, that means GM has done thier job right

 

[Philly]

Ooohh. I'm excited. How is the Corvette going to compare to the Viper? It seems that the Z06 may be just a little slower and that this is quite a bit faster. I'd like to see how this battle unfolds. Maybe a souped-up Viper will be in the future?