BMW 2-Series & M2

[Wolfe]

But given that they're continuing to diversify within each series number, even the new ones (eg. Gran Coupe), and unrelated models like the Active Tourer...why did it have to be new numbers? Once again, it's not like it matters for anything, but it's comical.

The only reason they "needed" the 2- and 4-series was because they revived the 6-series, and later decided there should be "logic" to its even number.

 

[MatskiMonk]

But given that they're continuing to diversify within each series number, even the new ones (eg. Gran Coupe), and unrelated models like the Active Tourer...why did it have to be new numbers? Once again, it's not like it matters for anything, but it's comical.

New numbers for lot's of reasons, there would be 7 different body styles of 3 series now, splitting the sportier variants in to the 4 series range makes the 3 series range less confusing, differentiates the sportier models more (and in turn allows for greater differentiation), and allows them to charge a little more

The only reason they "needed" the 2- and 4-series was because they revived the 6-series, and later decided there should be "logic" to its even number.

Since the introduction of the 3, 5, 7 nomenclature the big coupes (i.e. the 6 series (E24, E63/64, F12/13) & the 8 series (E31)) have carried an even number, this is not a new thing. The reason why the earlier 2 door 3 series versions (E21 and E30) weren't differentiated as much, was because they were 2 door Sedans, not Coupes - the 3 series was a 2 door before it was a 4 door. Once the idea of a 3 series Coupe became established (E36 generation), it became difficult to change. During the E46 generation there was talk of the next gen (the E92/3) being called 4 series, hence the fact that the Coupe looked nothing like the Saloon. BMW obviously didn't bite the bullet then for whatever reason, but decided to with the latest gen. Ironically they decided that this time around they would make the cars more similar, despite the badge change... I can only assume this was to ease the transition.

The separation of the 1 series coupes again allows for greater differentiation, maybe not as apparent in this gen, but when the 1 series goes FWD next time around it'll probably make more sense.

.. The 2 series Active Tourer however... well, I disagree with the naming there. And based on what I've seen, the decision was made very late. As I said, my belief is they did it to clearly position it against the B Class Merc. But it makes a mockery (even more so when the 7 seat 2er arrives) of what they tried to do with the 2 series badge. If they didn't want to diversify the 1 series badge, they should have gone with the often suggested V badging (i.e. V3 etc.) or similar.


It's still infinitely more logical than giving your cars names...

edit: As I re-read this I appreciate it might be confusing as to how they arrived at most of their decisions, but I still think it's logical.

 

[homeforsummer]

It's still infinitely more logical than giving your cars names...

I agree it's fairly logical (until recently), though I still prefer proper names on cars. Numbers have always been a bit too appliance-like for me.

It's also a very human thing to attribute a car with a name, particularly when it's descriptive. A "Pagoda" Merc, "Batmobile" BMW, "Monza" Alfa or "Daytona" Ferrari are far more evocative than "W113 SL", "E9 CSL", "8C 2300" or "365 GTB/4".

 

[Clark]

I still get annoyed by the M3/3 series vs M4/4 series issue. They give the 4 to the two door model despite the first. 3 series (E21) and first M3 (E30) being three door only.

 

[Wolfe]

The way I see it, prior to the E63, both the 6-series and 8-series were one-offs, which isn't enough to have established a rule about even numbers or sets of doors. Meanwhile, the popular and long-running 3-series originated as a two-door, and the M3 existed for nearly 30 years as a two-door model first, only available as a sedan when BMW felt like offering one. That's more history than the 6er or the 8er, but they tossed it out the window for the sake of made-up logic (and all of it is arbitrary).

It's kinda like if the next 911 was just called the "Porsche Carrera", because it hasn't really been a "911" since the 1980s and Porsche tends to give their cars names nowadays. Logical, but not exactly necessary. It won't fool anyone who knows better, and for those who don't, it probably doesn't matter if its name makes sense in the grand scheme of the lineup.

 

[MatskiMonk]

The way I see it, prior to the E63, both the 6-series and 8-series were one-offs, which isn't enough to have established a rule about even numbers or sets of doors. Meanwhile, the popular and long-running 3-series originated as a two-door, and the M3 existed for nearly 30 years as a two-door model first, only available as a sedan when BMW felt like offering one. That's more history than the 6er or the 8er, but they tossed it out the window for the sake of made-up logic (and all of it is arbitrary).

So you discount two generations (20 years of BMW's history?!) as one-offs, yet decide that the first two generations of 3 series (not marketed as Coupes) do magically set a precident that Coupes can have odd numbers?

Clearly the way you 'see it' is what it is. And yes, it probably doesn't matter in the long run, they have to call the cars something...

 

[Wolfe]

Three things:

1. "One-offs" as in, before the E63, there was just one 6-series and one 8-series.
2. I haven't used the word "coupe" except when I referred to the Gran Coupe models, so you don't have to keep repeating the point; the E30 318i I used to drive was clearly labelled "2 door sedan" on its registration.
3. I'm pretty sure the naming of the 6-series and 8-series had nothing to do with doors or any "odd/even" rules, so it's pointless to talk about precedent in the context of odd/even.

The bottom line is, no one cared that some of the bodystyles of the 3-series didn't fit a "pattern" that had never been established. Now that BMW has made it an issue, people are going to poke at it. And really, if you wait for a year or two, I'm sure it'll blow over.

 

[homeforsummer]

and the M3 existed for nearly 30 years as a two-door model first

That's not strictly true...

​

Also, discussions like this are exactly why none of this crap should really matter in the first place. It's the M1/1M naming :censored:storm all over again

The cars are called whatever BMW calls them. They're just a set of largely arbitrary numbers that have become even more arbitrary when the second and third numbers in a string no longer related to the engine's capacity.

50% of BMW buyers go into dealerships with a budget and pick whatever car they like the look of and sign their life away on a lease, 45% do exactly the same but also tediously bleat to their work colleagues about how awesome their BMW is, and the remaining 5% are people like you guys who aren't douchebags and genuinely appreciate the cars for what they are, but aren't in the market for brand new ones anyway. And BMW doesn't mind, because it just sits back and counts the money from the other 95%

 

[Clark]

All I can say is God bless those with money to burn who are willing to buy new cars so we can have them half price.

 

[Wolfe]

That's not strictly true...

I can see how it was misinterpreted, but what I meant by "first" is:

Initially available as a coupe only, BMW introduced M3 convertible and saloon versions in 1994...

As for the subject of displacement tags, when I got my most recent Road&Track I was shocked to discover BMW had brought back the 320i name. It's actually a 2.0L! Also turbocharged, naturally. (pun intended)

 

[homeforsummer]

I can see how it was misinterpreted, but what I meant by "first" is

Ah, gotcha. As in, each M3 was released as a two-door model first, until this latest generation where M3 refers only to the four-door car.

 

[RocZX]

 

[Kent]

Do you guys actually believe 95% of BMW owners are D-bags who don't really appreciate what they drive? (I'd make a poll on this if I could)

 

[TheCracker]

Do you guys actually believe 95% of BMW owners are D-bags who don't really appreciate what they drive? (I'd make a poll on this if I could)

92% is probably nearer the mark.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

Do you guys actually believe 95% of BMW owners are D-bags who don't really appreciate what they drive? (I'd make a poll on this if I could)

^ It's a very sad case. Too bad, most clueless people think that I'm one of these peeps...

[BMW E46 M3 ZCP owner here]

 

[Azuremen]

Do you guys actually believe 95% of BMW owners are D-bags who don't really appreciate what they drive? (I'd make a poll on this if I could)

Watching the rapid decline in quality E36 owners, yes. Most people buying new BMW's are doing it for the badge, and I'm seeing more baseball caps and obnoxious VW/Subaru types in second hand BMW's lately.

 

[gt3_racer05]

looks way better than the 1 series. If I have $50k to spend, I'd go for this

 

[AudiMan2011]

Some possible details about the upcoming M2
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bmw-launch-m2-coupe-2015

Some of Autocar's renders

 

[Kent]

Autocar's renders look great.

That aside...
Coming back to this thread reminds me of how pretentious the GTP can be...

 

[MatskiMonk]

I like Autocars renders, but, I don't think they've paid too much attention to the spy photos so far.

The front bumper they've shown is basically just a mash-up of M4 and M235i, the latest shots of the car show a different arrangement... closer actually to the BMW VGT (with a more scaled back splitter obviously)

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I think the new 2 series is the sexiest BMW since forever. The curves, especially on that M2 render are beautiful.

 

[Kent]

@MatskiMonk is totally right.
The front bumper in the render is way off and unfortunately, I think the flares in the rear quarter panels are off in the VGT (as well as the side scoop).

Final product is the only way to know for sure but either way I'm a fan simply for the fact BMW is, and always has, made great cars for daily drivers who want to enjoy the drive.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Meanwhile:

 

[niky]

After all these years, I still think the Carens/Rondo is a lovely little MPV. Even if the owner has swapped on a set of BMW alloys.

 

[Roger the Horse]

But seriously, why did BMW separate off the 2-series from the 1-series as the new 1-series coupé, and then use the 2-series name for their new Mini based MPV?

 

[VXR]

Because they've jumped the shark. It's like the 3GT and the 4GC. They're almost the same car.

Saw the 2 Active Tourer today. Looks dreadful.

 

[Clark]

Meanwhile:

 

[MatskiMonk]

Because they've jumped the shark. It's like the 3GT and the 4GC. They're almost the same car.

That's like saying they "jumped the shark" because the 3 series and 5 series are almost the same car, or the 5 series and 7 series, just because they all have four doors and a boot. If you've even seen them, sat in them or driven them you'd realise they really are two quite different cars. 4GC is lower, lighter (along with lower CofG), with a wider track and a shorter wheel base too. 3GT is taller, with a higher driving position, inches more legroom and headroom, and a noticeably larger boot. It's got a longer wheelbase and is heavier. In short... one is built with dynamics in mind, the other for practicality and comfort. One drives better than a 3-er saloon, and one not quite so well - but both are a much rarer sight than the rep-tastic saloon or tourer.

I'm trying to decide which to get, a 3GT or 4GC, as a company car. Heart says one thing, head says another, the bank balance has it's opinions, as does my managing director.

But seriously, why did BMW separate off the 2-series from the 1-series as the new 1-series coupé, and then use the 2-series name for their new Mini based MPV?

The numbering strategy at the bottom end does appear to have stepped on a claymore. The best explanation at this point is the need to position it against the B-class from Mercedes. It'll get even crazier when the 7 seat 2 series Gran Tourer is shown off next year.

 

[Clark]

Needs to be a 435i GC @MatskiMonk or if you have to go derv a 435d.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Needs to be a 435i GC @MatskiMonk or if you have to go derv a 435d.

Can't afford to take the tax hit on an 35i or d Obviously I'd rather go for the 4GC, but the 3GT makes more sense for work, plus I actually think the face of the 3GT M-sport looks better than the 4GC M-sport.

edit: the only way a 35i was happening was in a 1 series, but the bossman knows that putting me in an M135i is probably not a sensible idea.