Britain - The Official Thread
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HenrySwanson
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Scotland has joined Wales in breaking it's all-time temperature record today by 1.9°C.
England's and also the UK's all-time record temperature record has also been broken, by 1.6°C.
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@Scaff Although the temperature here is around 4 degrees lower than this time last night, it felt just as bad thanks to the rain which had already evaporated by the time I left work, but has left the air very humid and muggy.
Looks like I (finally) picked the right week to quit drinking - glugging back a few ice-cold AF Heinekens.
England's and also the UK's all-time record temperature record has also been broken, by 1.6°C.
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@Scaff Although the temperature here is around 4 degrees lower than this time last night, it felt just as bad thanks to the rain which had already evaporated by the time I left work, but has left the air very humid and muggy.
Looks like I (finally) picked the right week to quit drinking - glugging back a few ice-cold AF Heinekens.
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- cutback73
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As someone who once survived one week of daily 45 Celsius in Italy some 15 years ago without access to air condition, I cannot say these current temperatures worry me much at all. Cold beverages and shadows go a long way. It’s annoying for sure but the media covers the current weather like doomsday is imminent. Surprise! 
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As someone who once survived one week of daily 45 Celsius in Italy some 15 years ago without access to air condition, I cannot say these current temperatures worry me much at all. Cold beverages and shadows go a long way. It’s annoying for sure but the media covers the current weather like doomsday is imminent. Surprise!
This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while, congratulations.
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Sorry to disrupt the scaremongering you seemingly prefer over the perspective I offered.
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- Crete
I don't think Britain of all places is supposed to reach 40 degrees at all in the summer, since it is about some geographical altitudes higher and next to the Atlantic rather than the Mediterranian sea.As someone who once survived one week of daily 45 Celsius in Italy some 15 years ago without access to air condition, I cannot say these current temperatures worry me much at all. Cold beverages and shadows go a long way. It’s annoying for sure but the media covers the current weather like doomsday is imminent. Surprise!
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There are no rules. The Earth is believed to have gone through much warmer periods millions of years before humans existed. Recorded weather history is unimaginably tiny in the big picture and climate change has been ongoing since forever.
All we can do is to take our precautions when temperatures rise beyond what we’re used to. 40 degrees Celsius is far from critical unless you decide to disregard the importance of shelter and proper hydration. The media coverage is hysterical. Just issue a warning and move on to the next story. It’s not catastrophic or sensational - Merely unprecedented in recorded history.
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Scaff
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I'm going to take the consensus of actual science on this one over yourself, as while the earth has been hotter and cycles do occur, the current one is driven very much by human activity.
Ah, you don't understand the importance of humidity in human survival of temperature, 35 degree Celsius is fatal at a high enough humidity. At wet bulb limits it doesn't matter if you're in shelter or how much you try and hydrate, you body can't evaporate sweat quick enough to lower your core.
Nope
Oh, but it is.
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Even beyond the notion that climate change isn't a problem, what's offensively stupid is the "I SurvIVED iT so ITs Not A PrObLeM" attitude - as though that's any kind of benchmark for whether or not things like society, ecology and agriculture etc. are suited to record breaking heatwaves - just because you spent a week in a country that regularly sees average temperatures 10°C higher than we're used to in the UK.
You seem to think that because ...
... that it won't impact human life now... which as you or I know it, probably isn't much more than 150 years old. I'm not suggesting that we can't adapt to the changes that will either be necessary or forced on us by circumstance over time, but to hand wave away the societal, ecological, agricultural and economic effects of unprecedented heatwaves with "ITS alRIgHT MAte, JuSt HaVe A cOld drink and STaNd IN THE shADE" is monumentally myopic.
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Warning: Smug southern take
Just move to the coast. Here on the Isle of Wight, yesterday was our hottest day just about managing a stretch above 30c but quite humid making that feel worse - but it didn't make it to 3 o'clock before a wind blew thru with a shower in tow.
I was born in Bedfordshire near Luton and can easily recall the oppressive, all-encompassing heat bouncing back and forth between the clay hills with nowhere to go - and this was the turn of the millennium before these giant heat waves.
I don't want to - I mean I do want to, but I'll appear as if I'm resisting - say "those who choose the grim embrace of the Midlands probably deserve a bit of a cooking" but I am led to wonder how sensible it will be to live inland as climates trend more to the extremes. We did, after all, evolve on the coasts, according to many anthropologists.
Just don't move here - there's no room, thanks.
Just move to the coast. Here on the Isle of Wight, yesterday was our hottest day just about managing a stretch above 30c but quite humid making that feel worse - but it didn't make it to 3 o'clock before a wind blew thru with a shower in tow.
I was born in Bedfordshire near Luton and can easily recall the oppressive, all-encompassing heat bouncing back and forth between the clay hills with nowhere to go - and this was the turn of the millennium before these giant heat waves.
I don't want to - I mean I do want to, but I'll appear as if I'm resisting - say "those who choose the grim embrace of the Midlands probably deserve a bit of a cooking" but I am led to wonder how sensible it will be to live inland as climates trend more to the extremes. We did, after all, evolve on the coasts, according to many anthropologists.
Just don't move here - there's no room, thanks.
UKMikey
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We're talking about the guy who likes to argue that Covid could be defeated with a bit of soap and water, after all...
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And I’m not going to stop you doing that. I’m also not denying the influence human emissions have on the climate, but there’s not much you can do as long as long as consumer culture guides the lifestyles of billions of people.
For example, it’s moronic to buy an electrical car and think you’re more sustainable those who don’t if you still consume more than the average person in several other areas of life. Just yesterday I finally discarded a 16 years old t-shirt of mine because the fabric was starting to dissolve. I know people who think their clothes get too old after a year or so, but at the same time convince themselves they are saints by following the mainstream climate bandwagons such as replacing their petrol car with an EV. The majority of climate issues related to humanity could be solved if many more people began to consume as a matter of necessity instead of consuming in a never-ending pursuit of status symbols.
I do understand the effect of humidity very well, but the average humidity levels currently experienced throughout Western Europe are well below what’s normal in naturally warm and humid places like Malaysia. No ongoing catastrophe in that country last time I checked.
My original post was primarily intended to offer a bit of reassurance to those currently worrying about their own health because of the weather. You are blaming my post for stupidity because it doesn’t cover subjects you feel it should. Ridiculous.
150 years old?
Again, I hadn’t even talked about the impact on human life. This doesn’t automatically mean that my own experience with hot weather has no relevance.
Having a cold drink is all you can do right now though. Maybe a cold shower if you feel your core is overheating, which wouldn’t surprise me with a temper like yours.
I have never said COVID can be cured with soap and water. I have repeatedly stated it’s an underrated preventive measure for those thinking the vaccines will make them invincible. Off-topic.
Scaff
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It's a series of steps, and the 'we can't do it all at once, so don't bother' approach doesn't help, quite the opposite.
Tell me you don't know humidity levels in the UK without telling me you don't know humidity levels in the UK. The UK is already started hitting mid 20s with 75% humidity over the last few days, however what you seem to be ignoring is that the occurrence of wet-bulb temps of this nature anywhere on the planet are an anomaly.
I'm also not sure why you picked Malaysia as an example (despite the country actually issuing risk of live warnings in the last few days showing even that to be a concern), when the main area of concern with regard to this is India, which is an on-going catastrophe
90 people died in 2022 due to heatwave spells in India, Pakistan: Study
The 2022 heatwave is estimated to have led to at least 90 deaths across India and Pakistan, a study that looks specifically at the recent spells of heatwaves across India and Pakistan said
...and has been for years...
You are aware that even prior to this year people die during heatwaves? You're not remotely qualified to reassure people in that regard, so once again the NHS, Met Office and it's communications (which are) override your 'opinion'
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Your original post provided no such context and wasn't in direct response to anyone stating concerns about their own personal health. In response to a discussion about a record heatwave, you literally suggested shade and hydration, and stated not to worry because you were alright in 45° temperatures. Perhaps you meant well, but it appears to me, and seemingly others, that such a response means you're either not considering the wider effects, or are intentionally dismissing them, because "media".
The rapid progress of society means most of the way of life we enjoy only occurred relatively recently. Comparing temperatures from before industrialisation and the construction of infrastructure we currently rely on isn't really relevant unless you're prepared to go back to a way of life that we had at that time.
You might be okay with reducing consumerism from current levels, and I might agree, but I'm talking about basic things, like a reliable water supply.
Fair enough, I'm not going to dispute advice to seek shade and stay hydrated.
I don't know whose voice you read my posts in, but it's not mine.
Tired Tyres
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Sorry for interrupting this global warming thread but the worst news.
Sunak Vs Truss. That means middle England racists will elect Truss. Who is the continuity candidate. Just as big a liar as Johnson.
Sunak Vs Truss. That means middle England racists will elect Truss. Who is the continuity candidate. Just as big a liar as Johnson.
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You seem to have completely misunderstood the point I was making. In short, my message was that billions of people need to reconsider their lifestyle if they genuinely hope to reverse things. How did you read that as “don’t bother”? My point was that everyone needs to start bothering in all aspects on life, but it’s probably unlikely to happen as long as the “elite” informing the masses that the climate is going bad are among the worst culprits themselves. They consume and fly commercial airliners more that the average middle class citizen.
75% humidity combined with hot weather the UK is no different to 75% humidity combined with hot weather anywhere else on the planet. 85% humidity in South East Asia with temperatures above 30 degrees is not uncommon in that region. Sure, the impact on society is different in the UK because it is uncommon but the “catastrophe” is very much survivable if you follow basic guidelines. Cannot say the same for other types of catastrophes which tend to kill people in an instant.
I'm also not sure why you picked Malaysia as an example (despite the country actually issuing risk of live warnings in the last few days showing even that to be a concern), when the main area of concern with regard to this is India, which is an on-going catastrophe
90 people died in 2022 due to heatwave spells in India, Pakistan: Study
The 2022 heatwave is estimated to have led to at least 90 deaths across India and Pakistan, a study that looks specifically at the recent spells of heatwaves across India and Pakistan saidwww.business-standard.com
...and has been for years...
I chose Malaysia because it rhymes with warm weather and high humidity as an everyday occurrence. India’s problems have a lot to do with its urban population densities being excessive.
You are aware this is exactly why I told my personal story surviving 45 degrees Celsius by keeping myself cool and hydrated?
I know I’m not a healthcare professional, thanks. That doesn’t mean I cannot share a personal experience.
The mood I get from the posts before mine was characterized by low-key concern. That’s why I shared my own experience with 45 degrees Celsius, which I find reassuring myself when the media goes berserk over 40 degrees Celsius. I cannot say I expected to get poop emojis in return, but maybe my post unintentionally came across superior.
Everything that can be done helps of course. I’m only saying the a change in consumer culture is more important than people taking baby steps like buying electric cars if they are still posers at heart. Not necessarily that I’m prepared to live like a caveman myself, but I try to be sustainable in areas where many tend to get primitively swayed by desires to constantly show off.
Good.
You were writing quotations while at the same time giving the impression of me being a complete degenerate. It comes across aggressive to say the least.
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UKMikey
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We've really got our balls in a sling now.
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Scaff
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Then you might want to try better wording in the future, as I wasn't alone in that.
I know, I didn't say otherwise, but it is far from normal in the UK, hence the need for public health advice (that you dismissed).
Oh dear, onto whataboutism now. 'Floods kill people straight away so stop talking about the weather' isn't the tackle you think it is.
Sources provided and ignored, great
I've survived 50 degree temps in Dubai on a number of occiaotions, it has **** all relevence to people in the UK coping with totally abnormal temperatures here.
Which had nothing to do with the Uk and as such are pretty much pointless, oh, and lest we forget you also complained about valid and vital public health info on the subject.
I'm going to be blunt and let you know how you actually came across. 'I wish the news would shut up about this, it's utterly fine, I survived far worse'. Not only is it utterly unhelpful, self-important tosh, it 100% makes you sound like an utter narcissist.
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Unsurprisingly it's also an exaggeration and a misrepresentation.
Italy as a whole recorded 40-degree temperatures for five consecutive days twice in 2007 - at the end of June and at the end of July - but no one specific region recorded more than three days of 45+. The highest was in Foggia, in June, at 47, while the July wave peaked at 46 in Potenza.
These heatwaves claimed over a thousand lives, in countries where 40-degree temperatures are a regular summer fixture for more than a century (Greece, Hungary, Romania, Turkey, Croatia, and Italy). They killed a lot of people, even in countries used to the heat. It was very much an extreme of weather.
And that's kind of also the point of why 40+ is a massive problem in the UK.
Countries build around normal conditions. The entire national and local infrastructure is created around the conditions experienced by 95% of the population, 95% of the year, with fingers crossed that the outliers are rare enough that systems can cope with it and be repaired later.
Like everywhere else the UK's infrastructure is designed on a similar basis. Our average temperatures range from 5-20 across most of the country in most of the calendar (Italy's range from 12-25, and the 12 is only in the Alps). We experience temperatures as low as -5 for a couple of weeks of winter (occasionally dipping to double-digits, more likely in Scotland) and rarely experience temperatures above 32 even in the height of summer.
We're set up for everything to work across that range of 5 to 25, and -5 to 32 at the outer edges, and when it gets beyond that range things fail.
That starts with things even as basic as house design. A comfortable indoor temperature is at the top end of our average air temperature, so most of the year we don't have enough heat; as a result UK houses are designed to absorb and trap heat, and to keep the heat we generate from our almost ubiquitous gas/oil central heating systems inside the house. They are bad at evacuating heat, because that's not what we need, almost all of the time - and we don't have air conditioning systems because we don't need them almost all of the time either.
But it extends to other infrastructure too. Roads, railways, large buildings, communications systems, utilities and so on are all designed to operate across our regular and infrequent temperatures, but not unprecedented extremes.
The materials they're made of expand under extreme heat and contract under extreme cold, and if they get outside their design windows they fail - bridges literally have expansion joints that allow them to expand and contract, because if they didn't they'd fall down or they'd buckle and then fall down. The Humber Bridge is a metre longer at 40 degrees than at zero. Railway tracks expand and buckle, overhead powerlines and phone lines expand and sag, high-steel buildings expand, gas pipes expand (and melt), road surfaces melt (the road surface composition is totally different in Italy compared to the UK)...
Our healthcare is set up for large numbers of too-cold people, not large numbers of too-hot people. Over the week we've also seen domestic and industrial cooling apparatus failing - supermarkets have had to bin chilled items because their freezers and fridges aren't designed to exchange heat with a 40-degree external temperature and can't chill the contents...
Oh, also, if your brain reaches 43 degrees you're dead - and you start to experience permanent brain damage at 42.
So yeah, 40+ - 1.5 degrees higher than the all-time human history record - is pretty much panic stations here in the UK, and acting like it isn't because somewhere else was hotter once, in country where that's not even the record, and it still killed people, is impossibly short-sighted at best.
Italy as a whole recorded 40-degree temperatures for five consecutive days twice in 2007 - at the end of June and at the end of July - but no one specific region recorded more than three days of 45+. The highest was in Foggia, in June, at 47, while the July wave peaked at 46 in Potenza.
These heatwaves claimed over a thousand lives, in countries where 40-degree temperatures are a regular summer fixture for more than a century (Greece, Hungary, Romania, Turkey, Croatia, and Italy). They killed a lot of people, even in countries used to the heat. It was very much an extreme of weather.
And that's kind of also the point of why 40+ is a massive problem in the UK.
Countries build around normal conditions. The entire national and local infrastructure is created around the conditions experienced by 95% of the population, 95% of the year, with fingers crossed that the outliers are rare enough that systems can cope with it and be repaired later.
Like everywhere else the UK's infrastructure is designed on a similar basis. Our average temperatures range from 5-20 across most of the country in most of the calendar (Italy's range from 12-25, and the 12 is only in the Alps). We experience temperatures as low as -5 for a couple of weeks of winter (occasionally dipping to double-digits, more likely in Scotland) and rarely experience temperatures above 32 even in the height of summer.
We're set up for everything to work across that range of 5 to 25, and -5 to 32 at the outer edges, and when it gets beyond that range things fail.
That starts with things even as basic as house design. A comfortable indoor temperature is at the top end of our average air temperature, so most of the year we don't have enough heat; as a result UK houses are designed to absorb and trap heat, and to keep the heat we generate from our almost ubiquitous gas/oil central heating systems inside the house. They are bad at evacuating heat, because that's not what we need, almost all of the time - and we don't have air conditioning systems because we don't need them almost all of the time either.
But it extends to other infrastructure too. Roads, railways, large buildings, communications systems, utilities and so on are all designed to operate across our regular and infrequent temperatures, but not unprecedented extremes.
The materials they're made of expand under extreme heat and contract under extreme cold, and if they get outside their design windows they fail - bridges literally have expansion joints that allow them to expand and contract, because if they didn't they'd fall down or they'd buckle and then fall down. The Humber Bridge is a metre longer at 40 degrees than at zero. Railway tracks expand and buckle, overhead powerlines and phone lines expand and sag, high-steel buildings expand, gas pipes expand (and melt), road surfaces melt (the road surface composition is totally different in Italy compared to the UK)...
Our healthcare is set up for large numbers of too-cold people, not large numbers of too-hot people. Over the week we've also seen domestic and industrial cooling apparatus failing - supermarkets have had to bin chilled items because their freezers and fridges aren't designed to exchange heat with a 40-degree external temperature and can't chill the contents...
Oh, also, if your brain reaches 43 degrees you're dead - and you start to experience permanent brain damage at 42.
So yeah, 40+ - 1.5 degrees higher than the all-time human history record - is pretty much panic stations here in the UK, and acting like it isn't because somewhere else was hotter once, in country where that's not even the record, and it still killed people, is impossibly short-sighted at best.
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You were the only person who voiced a misunderstanding of my rant on consumer culture. I feel like I put effort into wording my posts, but there’s only so much you can do when people immediately assume intentions are bad.
How did I dismiss it? I’m pretty sure I was echoing it minus the drama.
All I’m saying that there are basic things people can do to survive hot weather. People largely get to decide the outcome for themselves. There are some groups more vulnerable than others of course, but the general advice still stands, such as looking after each other.
Ignored how? I commented on it.
Dubai is coincidentally one of the less humid places. Italy and UK are more comparable in that regard than you might think.
What difference does it make? Surviving a hot and humid day in the UK is not harder than it was for a Scandinavian tourist visiting Italy. If anything, tourists have the added challenge of being out of their comfort zone.
You might think I complained about vital public health info, which I didn’t. My complaint is how climate scaremongering takes advantage of the current weather. The worsening climate is an ongoing problem every day of the year, but the important thing right now is to stay cool and hydrated. The media currently spreading fear doesn’t help, especially when the situation could be far worse despite being unprecedented.
The message I delivered was inherently helpful no matter how it came across. You say it yourself all the time: “address the point, not the person”.
I don’t know where you are getting those numbers from, but try looking up Northern Italy during July, 2006, which was where and when I visted. Also, Provence, France during July, 1999. Both times I relied on a car thermometer consistently reading 45 C (Italy 2006) and 44 C (France, 1999).
It’s possibly that a car thermometre exaggerates slightly from getting parked in direct sunlight etc., but anything above 41 C is worse than what’s currently happening in the UK.
I haven’t claimed otherwise.
Not really. Most days during those aforementioned heatwave-holidays of mine were spent under the shadow of a tree drinking lukewarm cola. Our tent obviously offered no escape from the heat and the car wasn’t air-conditioned, but we coped by staying hydrated and by avoiding direct exposure to sunlight. The UK could have it worse, even if their homes come unprepared. Just take precautions and you’ll most likely be fine like I was back then.
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Scaff
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Posting history is clearly readable, you have form.
You've clearly never been, average annual humidity is 60%, not a huge difference to the averages of 70% for the UK and Italy. Dubai also hits its humidity peak in summer at 90%, with temps above 45 degrees.
Therefore you couldn't be more wrong in this regard.
That would be the temps in Italy that you exaggerated and caused a number of deaths.
It's not scaremongering, people are literally dying as a result of it.
Characterising it as scaremongering is inherently unhelpful, and its a trait you have shown over a number of topics, to the degree that the person is the point.
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Results from the fifth ballot in the Conservative leadership race:
Rishi Sunak - 137 (+19)
Liz Truss - 113 (+27)
Penny Mordaunt - 105 (+13)
____
Out after Round 5
Penny Mordaunt
Out after Round 4
Kemi Badenoch
Out after Round 3
Tom Tugendhat
Out after Round 2
Suella Braverman
Out after Round 1
Nadhim Zahawi
Jeremy Hunt
Staggeringly, Liz Truss is now odds-on favourite to win the Tory leadership race, despite not even managing to muster enough votes to automatically get her into the last two, even in a vote between three candidates. Incredible. An utter imbecile of a woman, she can't even muster the support of 1/3rd of MPs in her own party, and yet this useless, posing Thatcher-clone dolt of a human being is very likely going to be the next Prime Minister of the UK.
We. Are. ******.
Rishi Sunak - 137 (+19)
Liz Truss - 113 (+27)
Penny Mordaunt - 105 (+13)
____
Out after Round 5
Penny Mordaunt
Out after Round 4
Kemi Badenoch
Out after Round 3
Tom Tugendhat
Out after Round 2
Suella Braverman
Out after Round 1
Nadhim Zahawi
Jeremy Hunt
Staggeringly, Liz Truss is now odds-on favourite to win the Tory leadership race, despite not even managing to muster enough votes to automatically get her into the last two, even in a vote between three candidates. Incredible. An utter imbecile of a woman, she can't even muster the support of 1/3rd of MPs in her own party, and yet this useless, posing Thatcher-clone dolt of a human being is very likely going to be the next Prime Minister of the UK.
We. Are. ******.
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