<- BTCC-6 -> Season Complete - skengdigi is the first double Champion!

[Ian_83]

I preffer option 2, giving the FR's a weight reduction. It's easy, allows the season to continue without a break and should help.

The other issue that has been mentioned but not really discussed....the calendar. It is very biased towards the FF's. The majority of the tracks have huge straights that enable the FF's to get ahead and then the FR's struggle to slip by on the bends especially if the FF driver knows how to defend. I would loved to have seen Tsukuba thrown into the calendar to help balance it out a little and maybe Autumn Ring (if people can keep it between the lines).

 

[ROB 256R]

Does the M3 match the FF's on outright lap pace????

The only thing I would worry about is then tyre ware. On sport mediums the M3 should be able to quite comfortably do a full stint without any ware or drop off in lap times.

I know at the moment there is very little tyre ware with the FR's but would this make it too unfair on FF drivers. Maybe i'm overthinking it.....

The FRs can already run as long a stint as possible without any significant tyre wear or performance drop off. So I don't think it will matter. If anything because the meds take longer to warm up the new FR spec car/s will have to be more careful on cold tyres. And there is a lot more scope for getting poor traction and oversteer.

I'm easy. I'll do either. See what others think.

 

[mrbrendon999]

I preffer option 2, giving the FR's a weight reduction. It's easy, allows the season to continue without a break and should help.

The other issue that has been mentioned but not really discussed....the calendar. It is very biased towards the FF's. The majority of the tracks have huge straights that enable the FF's to get ahead and then the FR's struggle to slip by on the bends especially if the FF driver knows how to defend. I would loved to have seen Tsukuba thrown into the calendar to help balance it out a little and maybe Autumn Ring (if people can keep it between the lines).

Tsukuba would be a very good idea, true fr course, tight corners short straights

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Right, FR proposal...

We all know the FR balancing hasn't worked out as well as hoped... and the stewards have been discussing what to do about it. I've presented an idea and the stewards seem largely happy with it, so I'll put it out there for all.

Simply, it would involve introducing the BMW M3 CSL '03 on Sports Medium tyres with immediate effect (exact weight TBC, but somewhere around 1270-1300 I reckon would be good). It has good grip, and critically, matches the FFs on straight line. Any FR drivers would be permitted to change to it if they wish. FF drivers would not be allowed to switch cars.

Of course this would mean the season would be paused for a week or two while drivers acclimatise to the car, and to ensure the M3 is probably and fairly balanced to the field. I don't want this to result in a swing the other way. Parity is the goal.

If people want this to go ahead but feel the change is too drastic, then maybe the season can be split in half and we start again from 0 for Round 5 (if this plan goes ahead, I would switch Madrid and High Speed Ring around in the calendar). There would then be titles open for Season 6.1, 6.2 and the whole of 6 overall.

Secondary to this plan would be shaving another 20kg off the Crossfire and G35/Skyline, making them 1350kg a piece, but still on Sports Soft tyres.

Thoughts?

That sounds like a very good idea and could work well 👍

As for this season I'm not sure if there would be much point in pausing it or splitting it into 2 as I think there is only Hurleyman that drives the old BMW so perhaps give him the choice of exactly what happens there as I have already pulled out and am putting more effort into TOCA. I would be happy to attend any race events I can get the time to (try to make as many as poss) drive the CSL and not be included for points in any way so that it can be tested at the remaining tracks under race conditions but not affect the championship 💡

Does the M3 match the FF's on outright lap pace????

The only thing I would worry about is then tyre ware. On sport mediums the M3 should be able to quite comfortably do a full stint without any ware or drop off in lap times.

I know at the moment there is very little tyre ware with the FR's but would this make it too unfair on FF drivers. Maybe i'm overthinking it.....

I wouldn't be too concerned with that as I know I could have done Suzuka without stopping if I were allowed to

 

[Ian_83]

No offence Mike, but if you were racing with us, using a different car but not scoring points, I'd be getting annoyed everytime I had to follow you and lost time.

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

I'm quite good at not holding people up if I were on the track and not scoring points but there for testing purposes if there was a car that looked like it could catch anything in front of me I would let it past and try not to affect the true outcome of the race points wise 👍

 

[rolo912011]

Maybe as a balance between the two options..

1) Put Crossfire and G35/Skyline down to 1350
2) Allow hurley to switch to M3 CSL?
or
3) Have Mikey run the M3 CSL non-championship
4) Switch SSR5 for Autumn Ring/Deep Forest/Tsukuba?

 

[mrbrendon999]

Maybe as a balance between the two options..

1) Put Crossfire and G35/Skyline down to 1350
2) Allow hurley to switch to M3 CSL?
or
3) Have Mikey run the M3 CSL non-championship
4) Switch SSR5 for Autumn Ring/Deep Forest/Tsukuba?

1) looks good to me
2\3) either fine by me
4)any would be fine by me, cause i think 2 street is enough in 1 season

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Maybe as a balance between the two options..

1) Put Crossfire and G35/Skyline down to 1350
2) Allow hurley to switch to M3 CSL?
or
3) Have Mikey run the M3 CSL non-championship
4) Switch SSR5 for Autumn Ring/Deep Forest/Tsukuba?

that would work, although Hurley should ultimately get the choice as to which car he would prefer and a true FR track would provide good information when put together with data from the FF tracks of where to go next

 

[Ian_83]

1) FR weight reduction. 👍
2) Not sure if that's fair on Red or anyone else driving an FF that would have preffered the BMW had it have been an option.
3) Hmm, why not let Mike try the CSL against us before the races start, so once the lobby opens and we are practising, let Mike loose and let's see what he can do. That wouldn't have any affect on the races or the outcome of them.
4) Yep, a calendar change wou be a good idea. To be fair, a calendar change would help the FR's even without a weight reduction. Swap a couple of races out to a more FR friendly track.

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Just a thought but if the other FR's are having a weight reduction would the same for the BMW not work?

 

[ROB 256R]

Maybe as a balance between the two options..

1) Put Crossfire and G35/Skyline down to 1350
2) Allow hurley to switch to M3 CSL?
or
3) Have Mikey run the M3 CSL non-championship
4) Switch SSR5 for Autumn Ring/Deep Forest/Tsukuba?

Honestly I don't think 20kg off will make much difference on the straights. It's better than nothing but I think the core problem would remain.
He would probably be up for that
or
Mikey seemed not too happy with the soft tyres, so with less weight and med tyres it's an even harder combination to drive. I don't think it would prove much tbh and it just messes up the order of the points scoring cars.
Autumn Ring would probably be a nice one for the FRs but not sure SSR5 is the right swap.

 

[Ian_83]

There are too many street circuits though. I know that they make stewarding easier, but do we really need so many?

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Yes the tires where a slight problem for me but only because I was having to push too hard in an attempt to keep up I can adapt to medium tires and even though I will still not be the fastest driver there I think it will still provide good information

 

[mrbrendon999]

There are too many street circuits though. I know that they make stewarding easier, but do we really need so many?

Preferably Madrid switched out xD

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Preferably Madrid switched out xD

agreed 👍

 

[rolo912011]

Well I'd like to keep Tokyo, and possibly Daytona too. Everyone seems pretty pumped for High Speed Ring so I don't really want to touch that either. SSR5 is definitely expendable, and Madrid might have to wait for another season.

 

[Ian_83]

Yes the tires where a slight problem for me but only because I was having to push too hard in an attempt to keep up I can adapt to medium tires and even though I will still not be the fastest driver there I think it will still provide good information

You didn't adapt to the S/Soft, how are you going to cope on S/Medium and you'll still be pushing it hard even though its not for points. You are a competitive person, we all are.

 

[ROB 256R]

There are too many street circuits though. I know that they make stewarding easier, but do we really need so many?

I only say it because I think SSR5 might be an OKish circuit for the FR. I would have said Daytona Road would pose a greater problem; could be another 'Monza' for the FRs there with all the banking.

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

You didn't adapt to the S/Soft, how are you going to cope on S/Medium and you'll still be pushing it hard even though its not for points. You are a competitive person, we all are.

If the change works then I of course will have to pus but not over push I.E. 9 quali laps in a row

 

[sibbystiggy]

Well I'd like to keep Tokyo, and possibly Daytona too. Everyone seems pretty pumped for High Speed Ring so I don't really want to touch that either. SSR5 is definitely expendable, and Madrid might have to wait for another season.

I was looking forward to SSR5, but I don't mind it being replaced with autumn ring or deep forest, but I don't like Tokyo, I prefer madrid to it, these are my thoughts

 

[V8-Johnboy]

Great BTCC track Autumn Ring.

 

[SkengD]

Id prefer madrid out as well but madrid should be the best fr track .

Honestly i think best solution after this season is no more frs or hopefully in gt6 we can match the cars with more success

I think daytona should go because it is a top speed track frs will die there

 

[ROB 256R]

Ok, bit of science for you here. Percentage of lap time spent at full throttle;

High Speed Ring - 87.1%
Monza - 79.7%
Daytona Road - 77%
Deep Forest - 75.6%
Tokyo - 75.3%
Tsukuba - 72.2%
GVSr - 70.2%
SSR5 - 68.9% (this supports why I think it won't be too bad for the FR)
Autumn Ring - 63% (only one worth swapping in of the ones discussed)

I know it's not the only thing to consider but I think it's a fairly good indication of track type. Has to be Daytona or Tokyo for the chop surely if a track swap is to be done?

 

[SkengD]

Daytona best for chop

 

[mrbrendon999]

Ok, bit of science for you here. Percentage of lap time spent at full throttle;

High Speed Ring - 87.1%
Monza - 79.7%
Daytona Road - 77%
Deep Forest - 75.6%
Tokyo - 75.3%
Tsukuba - 72.2%
GVSr - 70.2%
SSR5 - 68.9% (this supports why I think it won't be too bad for the FR)
Autumn Ring - 63% (only one worth swapping in of the ones discussed)

I know it's not the only thing to consider but I think it's a fairly good indication of track type. Has to be Daytona or Tokyo for the chop surely if a track swap is to be done?

Wow nice work m8y

 

[Ian_83]

Good stats. Have you got one showing the percentage of an FF at full throttle and how much of that is wheelspin exiting tight turns?

Surely the percentage of full throttle used can't be the only deciding factor on what makes a track an FR or FF track.

 

[paulmac2k9]

Daytona Road - 77%

No wonder I love Daytona Road!

And yes AR is waaaaay better than Madrid or Daytona in these cars 👍.

 

[canyondrifter]

well im easy going for the fr car front..only thing i'll say is i think 20kgs isnt enough im leaning towards 50 ..
as for track swapping .....i vote for Daytona road to get swapped out as i feel Tokyo offers a better chance for the FR's.....and im a FF driver...lol...i would love to chase down some ppl at AR or Tsukuba ...AR is my first choice tho as i love the way that track flows....as for adding someone into the race who stands to gain nothing is like having a mobile chicane to deal with ....no offense but it just seems odd to me...

 

[canyondrifter]

well im easy going for the fr car front..only thing i'll say is i think 20kgs isnt enough im leaning towards 50 ..
as for track swapping .....i vote for Daytona road to get swapped out as i feel Tokyo offers a better chance for the FR's.....and im a FF driver...lol...i would love to chase down some ppl at AR or Tsukuba ...AR is my first choice tho as i love the way that track flows....as for adding someone into the race who stands to gain nothing is like having a mobile chicane to deal with ....no offense but it just seems odd to me...