Bush has lost any of the respect I previously had for him!

  • Thread starter Max Powers
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I guess he's in pretty sorry shape now. I heard on the radio today that Nancy is unsure if he even recognizes her anymore. That's pretty far gone - I mean, he apparently doesn't even have the means to express himself in a way his wife of many years would recognize.

Say what you will about his presidency, but his current condition is a terrible situation for any human being to endure.
 
i reckon that bush wants this war on iraq cause he couldn't get bin laden so he is taking out his frustation on saddam houssain and our prime minister tony blair is just trying to play wid the big boys and be on that international level
 
It doesn't. That's why I disagreed. :lol:

The last significant conflict we had was the Gulf War. Guess what? Our economy was slumping, and the war didn't help ~ people got conservative worrying about what would happen next. No new jobs were created either.
 
thats why saddam wasnt finished in the gulf war - george bush senior knew that the econemy would die in the arse again and saddam would be called out again.
 
Some would argue that Saddam was not removed because some dovish ppl would have complained.
 
Originally posted by space
Has anyone else wondered what Bush's approval rating would be if 9/11 didn't happen?



hmmmmm........

I have. It would be the same or lower than it was before 9/11. And that wasn't very good.
 
The man is a buffoon. Pure and simple. Anyone ever heard him speak? He's an embarassment.

Is it just me or does he always sound drunk?

But, I'm afraid cleaning up the middle east is a necessary evil and if Bush doesn't do it now some one else will have to later and it'll be worse.
 
He may not be a bright but speech difficulty is not a fair factor to use by itself. I assume you aren't doing that.

I would guess there are some professors with lisps.

What about Rain Man?
 
Originally posted by Talentless
He may not be a bright but speech difficulty is not a fair factor to use by itself. I assume you aren't doing that.

I would guess there are some professors with lisps.

What about Rain Man?

The ability to speak clearly and succinctly and use a decent vocabluary is, to me, a sign of intelligence. The lack thereof, is a sign of the opposite.
 
No, not directly to Rain Man.

Mile, I will grant you that speech may be a form of, or part of intelligence, but the implication I believe you give most people is not that he is deficient in some areas of intelligence, but that his speech problem is sufficient to guage him as stupid or that his bad speech should be strong evidence that his intelligence is low overall.

It all depends on how one views intelligence.
 
Originally posted by Talentless
No, not directly to Rain Man.

Mile, I will grant you that speech may be a form of, or part of intelligence, but the implication I believe you give most people is not that he is deficient in some areas of intelligence, but that his speech problem is sufficient to guage him as stupid or that his bad speech should be strong evidence that his intelligence is low overall.

It all depends on how one views intelligence.

As a "leader" in his position, he should be able to motivate and stir the passions of "the masses." The only passion he stirs is the world's anger.

Listening to recordings of other presidents and/or great leaders makes me feel sorta ripped off. It seems that the days of great oratory, of using speech to accomplish goals through a population, are sadly over. The FDR's and Chruchills and and Lincoln's are a memory. Now it is acceptable for a president to speak coloquialisms and make up non-sensical sylables.

Sometimes I watch British Parliment on CSPAN or some cable news channel. Those guys can speak. They have a strong vocabulary and say things in a clear, concise, yet not abbreviated manner. They have mastered the subtleties of their language to shade their statements and mean exactly what they are saying.

You just don't get a lot of that in America. In fact, in America you are almost looked down upon for being a good speaker. Just look at some of the crap people post here... totally incomprehensible garbage. And these people should be able to string a sentence together. They're not six year olds. But sloppy language leads to sloppy thinking.

Of course this only matters to those for whom thinking is valuable.

Bush's Bushisms and botched English make us all look bad.
 
"As a "leader" in his position, he should be able to motivate and stir the passions of "the masses." The only passion he stirs is the world's anger."

Generally, I would assume the masses refers to those of the state that the leader leads. The term "leader of the free world is not literal," though I understand its significance. He is not obligated to impress the world. Also, I doubt poor speech is what angers the world. I believe it is more of an annoyance than anything else.



"Listening to recordings of other presidents and/or great leaders makes me feel sorta ripped off. It seems that the days of great oratory, of using speech to accomplish goals through a population, are sadly over. The FDR's and Chruchills and and Lincoln's are a memory. Now it is acceptable for a president to speak coloquialisms and make up non-sensical sylables."

I share your feeling to some extent, but it may be Bush's errors which are part of his popularity. I doubt many people can speak like Orson Welles could. The policy is more important than the speech meant to sell it. Granted, a speech needs to be good, but simple terms can go over very well. What is important is to know your audience.


"Sometimes I watch British Parliment on CSPAN or some cable news channel. Those guys can speak. They have a strong vocabulary and say things in a clear, concise, yet not abbreviated manner. They have mastered the subtleties of their language to shade their statements and mean exactly wht they are saying."

They are also better educated than us. And as far as the British House of Commons goes, I, too, have seen some of it. And I prefer the US style, where the elected officials are less confrontational and apt to inserting their boos and yays. Albeit that it is less exciting, but the time given to the officials, being long as it is (too long), means a better understanding of the subject. The only consistent show on C-SPAN that I know of is the Wednesday meeting where Tony Blair is asked questions. And, as implied before, I prefer the US style for information, the British for entertainment. By entertainment I do not mean to cheapen the system, I mean it in the positive sense.

"You just don't get a lot of that in America. In fact, in America you are almost looked down upon for being a good speaker. Just look at some of the crap people post here... totally incomprehensible garbage. And these people should be able to string a sentence together. They're not six year olds. But sloppy language leads to sloppy thinking."

I have dealt with complaints about how I address people. You cannot win. Either you will sound like a showoff or a moron; the audience decides.

"Of course this only matters to those for whom thinking is valuable."

I try.

"Bush's Bushisms and botched English make us all look bad."

Yes and no. If someone in, say, Finland is judging us based on the speaking skills of Bush, not even reasonably disputing his policies, that says something about the Finnish person, does it not?
 
PS: The world has, from what I can tell, a different philosophical outlook to the US. It's anger is a given unless we emulate it. One could say it is natural
 
"I share your feeling to some extent, but it may be Bush's errors which are part of his popularity. I doubt many people can speak like Orson Welles could. The policy is more important than the speech meant to sell it. Granted, a speech needs to be good, but simple terms can go over very well. What is important is to know your audience."

Do you think that Bush could be more convincing if he could speak like "great man" instead of "some Texan?" I actually agree with his policy on Iraq. I think other's may not because of his cowboy vigilante manner.

As far as people's anger...
I don't think his speech makes people angry. It's his inability to formulate a convincing argument, hench his being perceived as a war pig.
 
Others are more relativistic.

His arguments do need work, but philosophy has relevance if the one that prevails among other nations is of passive response.

What convinces an American probably won't convince a European. A given, but it may mean that it is also a futile exercise. I am aware of why Bush probably is getting support, promises and people fear him. Unfortunate that it makes us look like bullies, but if that is what is needed, fine.
 
Originally posted by Talentless


What convinces an American probably won't convince a European. A given, but it may mean that it is also a futile effort.

Right. And they're the ones (Europeans) who seem to need convincing. I just think the President of the United States of America should understand that and be able to do what is necessary.
 
Fine. But, sorry to delve into assuming bias, but he is a conservative Republican. He would need to be a near polar opposite to please many others. Perhaps a liberal or a centrist would agree with him being a "statesman," but his base may not; probably won't. Despite the electoral college system, presidents still need to worry about constituents.
 
Mile, I am enjoying this debate but I grow very tired and must rest soon, so I'll be signing off in a few minutes.
 
The economy was going downhill when Clinton was in office. It's a cycle.(not Bush)
I like his strong stance against terrorist and Iraq.


I like him. I'll vote for him again...Yep, again
 
I think I remember Bush saying something like, "I is going to finish what Daddy started" when he was elected. I never did like Bush.
 
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