Cadillac CTS Thread: Rumors of Duramax Power Return...

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Funny thing happened on the way to testing the new Mercedes C-Class: Car and Driver likes the new CTS better. Plus, you end up saving about $6000 between the two, get more car in the CTS, and furthermore I'd venture a guess that my boys down in Lansing will screw them together better than those over in Deutschland.

...And while the Infiniti M is a great car, you're probably spending more money on a M35 than you would be on a CTS 3.6 FE3. The advantage to the Cadillac in that situation is that it is quite a bit more "balanced" by comparison to the Inifniti, as that has often been criticized for having a rather "rough" ride with the sport package. The M35 Sport starts at $44K MSRP, several grand above where the price would be on a FE3 CTS. You even get more power and better fuel mileage with the CTS too. Looks like the extra 100lbs on the CTS isn't that evident after all...
 
Bull****. Let the WORLD decide on the CTS and not just an American snotrag magazine. While the CTS maybe better than the 3-series (and I think it probably is) the new C-class is well worth whatever extra money it costs over the CTS. The Mercedes says CLASS and the Cadillac says "I can't afford an Audi or Merc" to me. Power isn't everything, I still think the C-class would outperform the CTS around a track trim for trim.

And please, the Infiniti has what the Cadillac doesn't. Great looks combined with impecable build quality. And in my personal opinion the M35 makes a much better noise--and I mean a MUCH better noise. Plus, I'd also argue that the Infiniti would also be faster around a track trim for trim AND that your statement that it has been "criticized" was taken from said American snotrag 'zine.

But like I said in another thread, the real opinions won't form until someone drives all of the said vehicles and then makes their final judgement. But I can GUARANTEE that the M35 in ANY trim will be a much better value and fun to drive over the new CTS. And that's not even addressing how hideous the front of the CTS looks. Could that grille GET any larger?
 
I don't understand your issues with American magazines, as every single magazine out there is going to have some sort of bias towards something one way or another. I happily split my trust between Car and Driver and Top Gear, both of which seem to be less-biased than other magazines out there.

The issue over Cadillac versus Mercedes in terms of "class" is warranted, but that being said, you really can't overlook the quality differences these days. As of late its far more easy to believe that Cadillac builds a better car, particularly with the issues Mercedes has been having since the late '90s. Personally speaking, Cadillac is still a brand that says "you've made it," although it largely depends on the person in question. The kids love Cadillac these days, and I'd say the older folks have warmed up quite a bit.

And hey, if we want to talk performance of the C-class versus the CTS, Car and Driver tested both this month! The CTS and C350 were fairly evenly matched, however, it seemed apparent that the Cadillac was better tuned for handling versus the Mercedes. Problem is, the rain didn't allow for a full ring-out of the Cadillac...

My guess is that next month there will be a comparison test between the Caddy, the Merc, and the Bimmer. I'd say the Caddy stands a pretty fair chance to win that battle, or at least finish second to the Bimmer.

As for the M35 Sport comparison, using C/D's test figures on that car, the Cadillac already walks away from it. The Caddy is faster, handles better, and gets better fuel economy. The Infiniti is also more expensive to start, not much larger at all, and only weighs 100 lbs less. Its another comparison that I'd like to see at a track like Grattan, but I don't know how soon it will happen.
 
Err...this is a much better car than the CTS will ever be:
2007_auto_show_028.jpg


Hell, check out the new C-class while you're at it. That's certainly stepped up to be a really decent value now.

The M35/45 is a seriously nice car, but an M35x AWD optioned the way I want one is over $50k. Slightly OT, but I find Infiniti/Nissan's pricing structure incredibly irritating because you're forced to 'buy up' into packages you may not want just to get a 'must have' option that is not stand-alone.

For example, you can't get HID headlights on a M35x unless you also get BOTH technology packages to the tune of 5k+. Even on a regular M35, you can't get HID as a stand alone option, only as part of a package. WTF is that?

It was the same way with the Murano. I couldn't get one thing unless I bought up into something else. By the time we were done, it stickered at $35k+. This was only tolerable because the packages contained (mostly) stuff that was nice to have. But I still ended up having to buy a $150 wind deflector (that I took OFF because it made a horrible racket) just to get something else I wanted.

The G35 sedan is very high on my list, though. And the new C is worth a look, but after my family having owned 2 E-Classes, I'm not really a fan of non-AMG Benz sedans. I find them incredibly boring.

...And while the Infiniti M is a great car, you're probably spending more money on a M35 than you would be on a CTS 3.6 FE3. The advantage to the Cadillac in that situation is that it is quite a bit more "balanced" by comparison to the Inifniti, as that has often been criticized for having a rather "rough" ride with the sport package. The M35 Sport starts at $44K MSRP, several grand above where the price would be on a FE3 CTS. You even get more power and better fuel mileage with the CTS too. Looks like the extra 100lbs on the CTS isn't that evident after all...

Well, before I debate the merits of the M35 vs. new CTS any further, let me frame the context properly: first and foremost, the car that replaces the Murano needs to have good interior room, comfort and safety. It will be a daily driver for my wife who is a stay at home mother (2 kids) and since my car has barely enough room to carry a pack of tissues, be the designated 'family trip car'. It needs to be AWD; our Murano is FWD, since we didn't forsee moving to the Snow Belt and were living in Florida at the time. Performance, handling, fun to drive and all that is very desirable, but we also need to hit a price point of around 35k.

On paper, a Maxima fits all of the above EXCEPT it doesn't have an AWD option. I would love to get into a new Audi A6 Quattro, but that's more money than I want to spend, as is a BMW 528xi. We may also look at a 300C as well.

But the Caddy sounds like its just a couple thousand more than a loaded Max and is more desirable than the Chrysler. My wife thinks it looks great (I do too), the interior looks way better than any Nissan and the 'legs' (suspension development) are a nice bonus. Whether or not it will happen will depend on a lot of test driving and the sucking up of dealers because I never, ever pay sticker.

Part of the problem when you look at a brand new model is dealers tend to think they're made of solid gold the first year and its harder to find a good deal.

Unless the car sucks. But if it does, I won't be buying it anyway.

We might just very well end up getting an AWD Murano next year if we don't find anything that strikes our fancy. It's not like there's anything wrong with it.


But like I said in another thread, the real opinions won't form until someone drives all of the said vehicles and then makes their final judgement. But I can GUARANTEE that the M35 in ANY trim will be a much better value and fun to drive over the new CTS. And that's not even addressing how hideous the front of the CTS looks. Could that grille GET any larger?

I don't understand your issues with American magazines, as every single magazine out there is going to have some sort of bias towards something one way or another. I happily split my trust between Car and Driver and Top Gear, both of which seem to be less-biased than other magazines out there.

Re: Car magazines

I like reading car magazines and I generally find their instrument testing (ie-- cold, hard facts) very valuable. Some of them are written quite well and make for entertaining reading. I like C/D because they are clever and will tell you if they think a car sucks. I like Evo because they are 100% committed to how well a car drives and that's important to me.

But at the end of the day, I have no problems disregarding either magazine's opinion of 'which car is better' if I've driven both and happen to disagree. They are just people like you and me, after all, and people have different needs and wants and tastes and opinions.

If they like the Caddy over the Infiniti (or the BMW or the Audi, etc), that's all well and good. But since I'm writing the checks, my opinion is the only one that counts.


M
 
Bull****. Let the WORLD decide on the CTS and not just an American snotrag magazine. While the CTS maybe better than the 3-series (and I think it probably is) the new C-class is well worth whatever extra money it costs over the CTS. The Mercedes says CLASS and the Cadillac says "I can't afford an Audi or Merc" to me. Power isn't everything, I still think the C-class would outperform the CTS around a track trim for trim.
The CTS is far from being better than the 3. Maybe the base 3 series, but the 335i in Automobile's test along with the new C350 Sport were chosen over the CTS after their test in Germany. Automobile concluded the car had certainly improved, but it wasn't a huge leap from the first-gen. CTS that it should have been.

But like I said in another thread, the real opinions won't form until someone drives all of the said vehicles and then makes their final judgement. But I can GUARANTEE that the M35 in ANY trim will be a much better value and fun to drive over the new CTS. And that's not even addressing how hideous the front of the CTS looks. Could that grille GET any larger?
I agree. I've had the pleasure of driving the M45 in the past, and I highly thought it was well worth the hype over the CTS at the time. Now, the good thing is, and you probably know where I'm refering to JCE, is that both the Infiniti and Cadillac dealer are literally just inches apart. I was easily able to drive the CTS and M45 over the same route, and I was much more impressed by the Inifiniti. The pickup is great and there's an excellent aura of sound.

The only problem is that the M starts $11,000 over the CTS.
 
The M35/45 is a seriously nice car, but an M35x AWD optioned the way I want one is over $50k. Slightly OT, but I find Infiniti/Nissan's pricing structure incredibly irritating because you're forced to 'buy up' into packages you may not want just to get a 'must have' option that is not stand-alone.

But you know what, if I spend $50k on an Infiniti I would feel like I got my money's worth. If I spend $50k on a Cadillac I wouldn't...unless it was a V.

For example, you can't get HID headlights on a M35x unless you also get BOTH technology packages to the tune of 5k+. Even on a regular M35, you can't get HID as a stand alone option, only as part of a package. WTF is that?

I can completely understand the whole packages bull****--every dealer from every manufacturer does this. Some more asinine than others.

It was the same way with the Murano. I couldn't get one thing unless I bought up into something else. By the time we were done, it stickered at $35k+. This was only tolerable because the packages contained (mostly) stuff that was nice to have. But I still ended up having to buy a $150 wind deflector (that I took OFF because it made a horrible racket) just to get something else I wanted.

Instead of the Murano get one of these superior beasts. http://www.infiniti.com/fx/index.html Starts @ $37k, yes more than your price point but well worth the money. You can't go wrong with a "jacked up" (as the hillbillies say) G35 coupe.

The G35 sedan is very high on my list, though. And the new C is worth a look, but after my family having owned 2 E-Classes, I'm not really a fan of non-AMG Benz sedans. I find them incredibly boring.

The new G sedan is teh own. If you can afford it get one.

On paper, a Maxima fits all of the above EXCEPT it doesn't have an AWD option. I would love to get into a new Audi A6 Quattro, but that's more money than I want to spend, as is a BMW 528xi. We may also look at a 300C as well.

The Maxima has needed an AWD or RWD for about 10 years now. But I'm affraid Nissan won't do it because it would take some of Infiniti's sales away--particularly from the G35. And if you get a Chrysler product please dear god get a Magnum R/T AWD, it prices out an MSRP of $34,290 before incentives. Which as of right now are quite good. They've got a $3,000 incentive right now as a matter of fact.

The CTS is far from being better than the 3. Maybe the base 3 series, but the 335i in Automobile's test along with the new C350 Sport were chosen over the CTS after their test in Germany. Automobile concluded the car had certainly improved, but it wasn't a huge leap from the first-gen. CTS that it should have been.

The new regular saloon/sedan 3-series isn't as far ahead as one might think...and that is what I was referring. Infiniti and Cadillac have caught up with Toyota probably knocking on its (the 3-series) doorstep in my opinion.

I agree. I've had the pleasure of driving the M45 in the past, and I highly thought it was well worth the hype over the CTS at the time. Now, the good thing is, and you probably know where I'm refering to JCE, is that both the Infiniti and Cadillac dealer are literally just inches apart. I was easily able to drive the CTS and M45 over the same route, and I was much more impressed by the Inifiniti. The pickup is great and there's an excellent aura of sound.

The only problem is that the M starts $11,000 over the CTS.

*cough*Sewell? :sly:

The M45 is really a competitor to a V8 CTS or V6+supercharger more than the regular CTS. The M35 and CTS base models should be compared and I think you'd get an overall better value for your dollar with the Infiniti. And honestly, I'd rather be seen in an Infiniti than a Cadillac unless the Caddy has a neat little "V" on the fenders and bootlid and it was cheaper than an M45 sport...which runs $50k.
 
The new regular saloon/sedan 3-series isn't as far ahead as one might think...and that is what I was referring. Infiniti and Cadillac have caught up with Toyota probably knocking on its (the 3-series) doorstep in my opinion.
True, it's not that far ahead, but I find overall, my money was better spent on the BMW. The price (which can steep thanks to options), the quality, the performance, the safety, and the overall customer satisfaction I've recieved since the first BMW has always been more than enough to keep me returning to the Barvarians.

*cough*Sewell? :sly:

The M45 is really a competitor to a V8 CTS or V6+supercharger more than the regular CTS. The M35 and CTS base models should be compared and I think you'd get an overall better value for your dollar with the Infiniti. And honestly, I'd rather be seen in an Infiniti than a Cadillac unless the Caddy has a neat little "V" on the fenders and bootlid and it was cheaper than an M45 sport...which runs $50k.
That'd it be. :D

I didn't drive the base CTS, I drove one that had more than enough options on it, but it was far from the best. However, it was pretty impossible to drive the V8 CTS at the time, although according to Cadillac, the CTS only comes in V6, with the V8 in the CTS-V, and Sewell would not let me drive a V of any model. This probably meant I drove the M45 and the 3.6L V6 CTS, but either way, the M45 put a grin on my face, and I heavily considered it over the TL Type-S.

But, at that time, despite an impressive car, the Infiniti dealer there is not my first choice to buy an Infiniti. I was first, not allowed to test drive any G35 Coupes when they first came out except for a model with aftermarket wheels that could have easily differed from the manufacturer rims. Then, they lost my business resulting in me getting the 330Ci. The M45 experience was close, but I couldn't afford the lease value they wanted, and I went with the Acura. Basically, if I want an Infiniti in the future, I'll have to find another dealer in Texas besides that one.
 
But TL's look so nice. You're right, though. They need the AWD system from the RL (that would be kind of silly, though, as the TL has the same engine and looks worlds better than the RL).
 
TL Type-S? Or A-spec? 290bhp FWD? Are YOU mad?

Type-S. The kickback is the FWD, but it's barely noticeable, as the car doesn't feel FWD at all. But the 290 horses are a warm welcome here as I've easily "smoked" many a wanna-be badass in his Civic/Eclipse/Tiburon/etc. off a redlight by simplying accelerating to 60. I also sound better on the accel as well. :D
 
The TL would be in my top 5 saloon list if it had at LEAST AWD--with RWD being preferable. Its just too good of a car to have wrong wheel drive.
 
But you know what, if I spend $50k on an Infiniti I would feel like I got my money's worth. If I spend $50k on a Cadillac I wouldn't...unless it was a V.

I do have to ask if you've been anywhere near the NEW CTS. I've seen it at the various auto shows, but they won't be on dealer lots until late this month. Just being several feet away from it, I can completely confirm that this new CTS is head-and-shoulders better than the outgoing model. Furthermore, the FE3 setup starts off (handling wise) where the previous CTS-V left off (in fact, it shares some basic designs), the only part missing is the 400 BHP LS2.

I think you'll find that a $40,000 CTS 3.6 FE3 is more than a worthy competitor as compared to the M35, a car by which has never really impressed me all that much (I say the G35 is better for the price/size differences...). It pretty much becomes apparent that Cadillac truly wants to play ball with the big German and Japanese luxury car companies, and as the Motor Trend review put it, it pretty much hits the ball out of the park, and makes it easily the best Cadillac in 50 years.

Get all of them together, and it will be an interesting fight. I'm looking forward to getting the first of the '08 Sigma II models here (probably the last week of August), and I look forward to at the very least giving the standard non-DI 3.6 model a drive... Hopefully at least an FE2. Otherwise, Grandpa may have to pull some strings to see if I can get the keys to a 3.6 DI FE3 model for a bit...
 
But you know what, if I spend $50k on an Infiniti I would feel like I got my money's worth. If I spend $50k on a Cadillac I wouldn't...unless it was a V.

Funny, I've always felt that way about a BMW :sly: If we were spending $50k+, we would probably get a 535xi. But that's just too much money right now.

I can completely understand the whole packages bull****--every dealer from every manufacturer does this. Some more asinine than others.

I think Nissan/Infiniti is one of the worst offenders. Lexus is pretty F'n bad about this too.

Instead of the Murano get one of these superior beasts. http://www.infiniti.com/fx/index.html Starts @ $37k, yes more than your price point but well worth the money. You can't go wrong with a "jacked up" (as the hillbillies say) G35 coupe.

Yeah, I'm hoping to see some 'marketing allowances' on that vehicle next spring too.

The new G sedan is teh own. If you can afford it get one.

Haven't driven the new G, though I'm sure I will eventually. Old G was nice for the price.

And if you get a Chrysler product please dear god get a Magnum R/T AWD, it prices out an MSRP of $34,290 before incentives. Which as of right now are quite good. They've got a $3,000 incentive right now as a matter of fact.

I've sat in a Magnum and was deeply turned off by the interior. Vast expanses of blocky, cheap looking plastic that a 10 year old Hyundai would be embarrassed to get saddled with. Yeah, it's a cool wagon. But sitting in one was like being trapped in the discard dumpster at a Hasbro molding facility. I had the same problem with the Grand Cherokee Laredo (when shopping against the Murano).

The 300 is much better, though still looking slightly low rent in places for a car that plays in the $35k range.

The new regular saloon/sedan 3-series isn't as far ahead as one might think...and that is what I was referring. Infiniti and Cadillac have caught up with Toyota probably knocking on its (the 3-series) doorstep in my opinion.

The 335i is a stupendous car. You should try one before you make up your mind about this.


M
 
Haven't driven the new G, though I'm sure I will eventually. Old G was nice for the price.
You should. I heavily considered it before the TL as well. But as I said, the dealer was very bad about what they wanted on the lease for it. Sorry dudes, I'm not paying near $900 a month for it.

I've sat in a Magnum and was deeply turned off by the interior. Vast expanses of blocky, cheap looking plastic that a 10 year old Hyundai would be embarrassed to get saddled with. Yeah, it's a cool wagon. But sitting in one was like being trapped in the discard dumpster at a Hasbro molding facility. I had the same problem with the Grand Cherokee Laredo (when shopping against the Murano).
The only thing I don't like about the Magnum is the way its shaped and how that interfers with the rear view mirror. It's tricky and like backing up down a tunnel.

The 335i is a stupendous car. You should try one before you make up your mind about this.
Everyone should. Sedan/Coupe/Conv., they all perform excitingly well. If I wasn't so in love with the 550i in Carbon Black Metallic (those great looking wheels don't come w/ Alpine White or Monaco Blue Metallic :( ), I'd easily be trying to find something anywhere close to keep me away from the 335i.
 
You should. I heavily considered it before the TL as well. But as I said, the dealer was very bad about what they wanted on the lease for it. Sorry dudes, I'm not paying near $900 a month for it.

*laughs at Infiniti dealer* God, and people say BMW dealers are arrogant.

They can do that because the car is brand new (hot). I give the car another 12 to 18 months before demand eases off and leases become subvented. At the end of the V35's run, they were giving sedans away for $350 a month.

Everyone should. Sedan/Coupe/Conv., they all perform excitingly well. If I wasn't so in love with the 550i in Carbon Black Metallic (those great looking wheels don't come w/ Alpine White or Monaco Blue Metallic :( ), I'd easily be trying to find something anywhere close to keep me away from the 335i.

The 535i does a pretty good job for me :sly: Too bad you can't get it with the M Sport suspension and aero kit.

Are you talking about the ZSP wheels? The M172s?



They should be available no matter what color the car is. :confused:


M
 
*laughs at Infiniti dealer* God, and people say BMW dealers are arrogant.

They can do that because the car is brand new (hot). I give the car another 12 to 18 months before demand eases off and leases become subvented. At the end of the V35's run, they were giving sedans away for $350 a month.
My TL was almost the same fate as the Infiniti, though. I managed to get them to come down from $620 to under $440.

The 535i does a pretty good job for me :sly: Too bad you can't get it with the M Sport suspension and aero kit.

Are you talking about the ZSP wheels? The M172s?



They should be available no matter what color the car is. :confused:

M
That's why I'm so attracted to the 550i. :D But, it's a bit on the expensive side, yet not being as expensive as I thought. Still, I'm not sure how I'll be able to work out a deal with a top model.

And those would be the wheels. I assumed they were Carbon Black-only as BMW USA's site only showed them on Carbon Black, and I've never seen them on anything but Carbon Black on the lots.
 
That's why I'm so attracted to the 550i. :D But, it's a bit on the expensive side, yet not being as expensive as I thought. Still, I'm not sure how I'll be able to work out a deal with a top model.

And those would be the wheels. I assumed they were Carbon Black-only as BMW USA's site only showed them on Carbon Black, and I've never seen them on anything but Carbon Black on the lots.

Yeah, I don't see serious marketing money or subvented lease deals on the 550 anytime soon. It's rare they discount the V8s, though they do sometimes. If you drive a hard bargain and buy at the right time, you may be able to get one for a grand or two over invoice. But that's about it; nothing stone cold crazy like the deals you can get on a Z4 right now.

The wheels come with any 550i you order with ZSP (Sport Package). The reason you see them all in Carbon Black is because CB is normally an M-only color, so all the dealers are ordering them that way.


M
 
Yeah, I don't see serious marketing money or subvented lease deals on the 550 anytime soon. It's rare they discount the V8s, though they do sometimes. If you drive a hard bargain and buy at the right time, you may be able to get one for a grand or two over invoice. But that's about it; nothing stone cold crazy like the deals you can get on a Z4 right now.

The wheels come with any 550i you order with ZSP (Sport Package). The reason you see them all in Carbon Black is because CB is normally an M-only color, so all the dealers are ordering them that way.

M

Well, I'm hoping 2 things will work to my advantage. 1, I'll be giving the 3 back in Nov.-December. During this time I'm hoping all the '07 cars will be heavily discounted to get them out, and get the '08s in. 2, since you said dealers are mostly ordering them in CB, I'm hoping those are going to be discounted if no one wants them and they sit on the lots for a while. But something like that will be hard since the color is pretty good looking. The only other thing I could hope drive the deal down is being on strong terms with my usual salesman.

But, for now, my best bet is #1. Hope they drive them down at Christmas to get rid of the '07s and find a 550i in that mess. If not, there's the demos...which will also be hard since 550is aren't exactly used for demos.
 
Well, I'm hoping 2 things will work to my advantage. 1, I'll be giving the 3 back in Nov.-December. During this time I'm hoping all the '07 cars will be heavily discounted to get them out, and get the '08s in. 2, since you said dealers are mostly ordering them in CB, I'm hoping those are going to be discounted if no one wants them and they sit on the lots for a while. But something like that will be hard since the color is pretty good looking. The only other thing I could hope drive the deal down is being on strong terms with my usual salesman.

But, for now, my best bet is #1. Hope they drive them down at Christmas to get rid of the '07s and find a 550i in that mess. If not, there's the demos...which will also be hard since 550is aren't exactly used for demos.

Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but the 550 ZSP you want with the M172s are all 2008s. SOP was March, if I remember correctly... meaning there isn't a single car out there that's been on the lot before early May.

You can probably get a good deal on a leftover 545i, though.

Why not get a 335i coupe or vert? You already have a sedan... (wait.. is that the car you share with your sister?)


M
 
Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but the 550 ZSP you want with the M172s are all 2008s. SOP was March, if I remember correctly... meaning there isn't a single car out there that's been on the lot before early May.

You can probably get a good deal on a leftover 545i, though.

Why not get a 335i coupe or vert? You already have a sedan... (wait.. is that the car you share with your sister?)


M

:( I saw them in lots, and I thought they were '07s because they were next to '07 M5s and other 5s. But maybe I can get a deal on 545i's.

I'm really thinking about the 335i coupe in that bright blue w/ the 5-spokes, but Boardwalk Porsche is tempting me with a used Cayman S lease to nearly match ($50-65 more).

The sedan I have now (TL) is mine. We got the 328i for my sister a couple months ago.
 
I'm really thinking about the 335i coupe in that bright blue w/ the 5-spokes, but Boardwalk Porsche is tempting me with a used Cayman S lease to nearly match ($50-65 more).

E92s look fantastic in Montego Blue and even though dealers can sell every 335i they get, theres pretty good support on the financing end for that car.

What do ya need two sedans for? Either coupe sounds great; you can't lose. .. its like choosing between Jessica Biel or Jessica Alba. I'd do the Cayman S, personally, depending on the options.

I didn't know Porsche did balloon loans on used cars. It doesn't surprise me, though.


M
 
Feeling the itch, I went to drive an '08 CTS on Friday night.

It was a Black Raven on Ebony 3.6 DI model (304 hp) with AWD and what I call "carbon-fauxber" trim. It had the FE2 suspension (Sport Collection, I think Caddy calls it) and some other Premium doo-dads that I don't recall.

This was a car I really wanted to like. And on my first drive, I have to say it mostly delivers the goods. Here's my impressions.

Styling

I liked the car in pictures and was pleased to see it was just as nice looking in person. A lot of people don't like the grille, and when I saw the car up close in person, I was pretty ambivalent about it. On one hand, it suits the character of the car and is integrated nicely into the design. On the other hand, it looks a bit overdone, a bit too bling. But the overall shape of the car is pleasing to my eyes and it has some nice details on it.

I like the light jewelry on the front and rear: vertical LED light bars that give the car a very technical look at night. The Salescritter seemed especially proud of this feature. I like it too, but didn't have the heart to tell him my not -so-new Z4 has the same thing and Audi's new 'low flying UFO' lights is far cooler than both. ;)

'My' car had the upsized wheels, so it didn't suffer from the 'Mastiff-on-a-Dachshund's-legs' look the red one at the beginning of the thread has a problem with.

Interior

So, into the interior for the all important tests. Like a 3 year old that's OD'd on Chocolate Coated Sugar Bombs, I sat down and immediately started pressing every button and flipping every switch I could get a my hands on, wondering if GM has finally killed all the bean-counting elves that saddled their interiors with unforgivable cheapness for the last 30 years and buried the bodies in Rich Corinthian Leather stockings by the fire.

It appears they have. All the switchgear I could find has that soft touch feel that says 'we got the VAG guys drunk on Spaten last night and snuck into their warehouse'. Tap the center console with your index finger and you are rewarded with a nice 'tick tick' instead of a hollow tock. The dashboard is soft and squishy; not in a bad way like your buddy Hank's man-breasts, but in a good way like, uh well, a soft and squishy dashboard. :lol: Things look quality and things feel quality. Well done, GM.

Incidentally, the driver cannot see the passenger's temp setting on the center console due to the angle at which it is displayed... just as I suspected from the pictures. Oh well. There is a 'dual off' switch, so no worries.

The Drive

Fire up the motor and head out: its a bit of a non-event at first. The cabin is hushed, the motor purrs quietly and the stereo system is exactly the kind normal people find perfectly acceptable, but audiophiles are compelled to complain about (the louder it gets, the less impressive it sounds, but I think if you listen to music at a sane volume, it sounds fine).

Primary ride is exactly what you might expect of your father's Cadillac. Maybe even your father's father's. Until you encounter some pavement ripples and sense the car telegraph the information to your seat, as if it were to say 'yes, I have nerve-endings down there. You're good to go, tiger... I ain't gonna abandon ya'. Cool.

Unfortunately, the steering wheel was not quite as talkative. I didn't drive a standard RWD model so I couldn't say if it was specific to the AWD model or not. But at least it wasn't sworn to secrecy like Caddys of yore. On the positive side, it was precise and was geared directly, with no slop to speak of.

I used to scare Salescritters during test drives. All except for the Porsche guys who would just smile and egg me on. I didn't think it was fair to frighten the poor guy on my first drive, so I decided discretion was the better part of valor and kept the handling tests short and sweet. Besides, it was rush hour and the neighborhood I was in (North Plainfield) wasn't exactly the Eifel Mountains.

I took several 'jug handles' at roughly 8/10ths, did an emergency lane change and then did an autocross turn in a parking lot (180 degree turn at full compression). Not a comprehensive test of the vaunted 'Nurburgring calibrated' suspension, but good enough to get a solid impression and it was good.

Body control is generally very good. Turn in is crisp. Confidence could be higher --but then again, I have exceedingly high standards. But the best part was the way the car took a set in the turns: It squatted down and was ready to play. I knew where I was and roughly how much more the car had to give. I was hoping the steering would start talking after I loaded up the tires, but I didn't really sense any changes.

One impression was that it might need a little more dampener in the rear. Perhaps. One of the jug-handles was an abrupt drop downhill and then off camber and decreasing radius. A cool turn that asks several things of a suspension. At the top, the rear end felt a little light and for a split second I could feel a little hesitation. Otherwise, the car was very buttoned down and very capable.

**EDIT: The brakes were also excellent. Not because they showed eye-popping clamping power --any one can do that-- but because they were easy to modulate and absolutely full of feel. They don't quite match Porsche brakes, but they are truly standout units and trump the ZCP (Competition Package) brakes on my Z4 M for feedback, if not for out-right stopping power.

FE2 is still fairly soft and several ticks down in response compared to something like my Z, but that's no surprise, the ride is much better and the car is much larger and heavier. But overall, I think the ride/handling compromise is excellently judged.

The entire drive was done with all electronic aids fully engaged. Most likely, I will give the car another drive a few weeks later (with the wife in tow) and defeat every computer that will yield, and see how it goes.

As it stands, the CTS4 and G35x are at the top of my list. Because interior size is a primary consideration, unless I get a raging deal on an outgoing A4 Avant, the Audi is out. Same goes for a 328xi wagon.

So should the Germans be worried? Probably. The Japanese will probably want to put some sake in their bottles too.


M
 
Awesome review! Uber-props headed your way!

Quite honestly I love the fact that you liked the car, being the BMW-type guy you are. I really would like to give one a spin, but being only 20 and making a modest sum of cash, I find it highly unlikely that they would ever hand me the keys unless I had someone with me.

Anyway, I can agree on all points. You did however have the FE2 model, which is the "middle of the road" package when it comes to suspension tune and rubber compounds. The FE3 model is the "racy" version, which I hear handles quite well and indeed has a slightly stiffer ride by comparison, but that of course is on a RWD model.

Still, I'm happy to hear that the CTS has impressed you. From what I can tell, GM did their homework...
 
Glad to hear the Caddy is so well sorted. Now, we have to get the skinny on CTS-V details (I would honestly prefer supercharged Northstar like in the STS-V to a small block so Caddys advances in smoothness with the car don't go to waste).
 
Its a pretty well-educated guess to assume that it will use the same LS9 V8 from the ZR1 in this edition of the CTS-V. The Northstar program is on its final stages, about to be replaced by the Ultimate program within the next year or two. The LS9 is based on the L92 6.2L V8 found in the Cadillac Escalade and GMC Yukon Denali, and at least in the CTS-V, should produce somewhere in the neighborhood of 550 BHP. It will use the same type of supercharger system found on the Northstar 4.4L S/C engines, adapted of course to the larger small-block design.

I have no idea how refinement will be overall, but general tests of the L92 that it is based on have been quite good. My guess is that it can't be any "less-civilized" than the 6.2L V8 found in any AMG product, but certainly is a departure from the Northstar program...
 
Awesome review! Uber-props headed your way!

Quite honestly I love the fact that you liked the car, being the BMW-type guy you are. I really would like to give one a spin, but being only 20 and making a modest sum of cash, I find it highly unlikely that they would ever hand me the keys unless I had someone with me.

Anyway, I can agree on all points. You did however have the FE2 model, which is the "middle of the road" package when it comes to suspension tune and rubber compounds. The FE3 model is the "racy" version, which I hear handles quite well and indeed has a slightly stiffer ride by comparison, but that of course is on a RWD model.

Still, I'm happy to hear that the CTS has impressed you. From what I can tell, GM did their homework...

Thanks! Like I said, I wanted to like this car. Its good to see the General put out a top drawer product that competes in every aspect, not just a few.

That said, its still a 'first impression', sorta like a first date :lol:. But first impressions count, so...

Re: FE2

Well, given the car would be my wife's car, the default kid hauler and long trip car, the ride quality on the FE2 suspension is probably the best choice. I don't even know if Cadillac makes the FE3 available on the AWD model. The brochure seems to imply that I need the "Summer Sport Tire/Wheel Package" or something in order to get the FE3.


M
 
I don't recall specifically if the FE3 suspension is available on the AWD model (you would think so...), but I do remember reading that you must have the summer-only rubber to start. I hear its a pretty good balance of ride and handling, taking a page out of the BMW book, but like you said it isn't for everyone, and thusly, the FE2 chassis should be more than enough for you or your wife.
 
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