Camber Theory

donpost
Hopefully it will work like that - but Forza for example had very little variation in camber (0.3 max difference between different cars) and there you had tyre temperature telemetry so you could get it right every time. I have every faith PD has done a better job :D
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+1:tup:
 
Spitfire77
I enjoy how it is stated that it only affects the Nascar people :rolleyes:. All the tuners are affected, but it seems most the tuners are happy about it being a correction towards realistic tuning.

So for me that means I just wait for the real tuners to do their thing, then I look up their new tunes and repeat. I just copy their settings then make any adjustments to my liking.. normally not much. I am lazy like that. So thanks to them for all their effort and for being cool enough to share it.
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Dude, I'd be interested to know what you use on your racing Spit, if it isn't classified :lol:. I believe stock 1500s were supposed to have around -3 deg rear with a normal load. The fronts a slight +ve stock but some -ve for performance or race.

When I get chance I need to test my in-game tune - it just seems wrong to have no camber on the rear at least.
 
I bought a TS030 and did a few laps at Tsukuba stock: Camber 2.0 F, 2.0 R. My best time was 49.426

I then removed the camber and my best lap was 49.719.

I'm not consistent enough to call three-tenths hard evidence, but I'm personally convinced that there has been a positive adjustment. I put 50 miles on the car during this test, which is about as thorough as I can get.

Also, the TS030 probably wasn't the best choice for tame consistency, but I wanted to try it out. :P
 
Hey guys,
I wanna tell you how my impressions are. I tested just the M3 coupe on the 24hNürburgring.
I drive this car every day on this track and I know every corner-speed with this car with my setup. So as I red the news about the camber changes I was happy because camber is important and it does not work properly.
I tried all camber combinations and on this track I couldn't improve my time. It was worse. I lost a lot of time in all sectors. The time was very bad so my conclusion is that on the 24h nurburgring is a bug or the update didn't bring any camber improvements. I tested it online in a private room with realistic lobby setups.
Without camber I made the time I usually make. With camber it was worse. But like you know online on this track are some bugs so it maybe don't work on it ... :/
Try it out guys. I would be happy to hear more impressions about this track and camber.

Greetings from Germany
alex-wks
 
I'm less sure than I was before... I tested again using a more predictable car (GTR GT3), and results are hard to interpret. Camber definitely doesn't slow a car down as much as before, but I'm not sure it can be used to improve lap times. The stock values of the GTR are F 3.5, R 2.9. I tried multiple laps at Stowe, GT Arena, and Suzuka East. All laps times were too close to make anything of it.

I did notice that the car had a little more oversteer with the camber, which is how it should be with the stock settings; it should have a front grip bias. I still believe the changes were in the right direction.

Edit: And now I find out I tested so long, my GTR lost PP and needed and oil change. Now all my testing is void. :banghead:
 
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I'm going to have to take a look tomorrow, I suspect from what I'm reading the camber may require a particular kind of matching setup to work properly. As with real life it won't be a fix all solution as it was in GT5, some tracks and setups work with camber, others won't.
 
My 2 cents on this I grabbed the BMW vgt reset the car to stock except for the lsd and took it to Autumn Ring been running hundreds of laps there lately so I kow it pretty well.
My time with stock suspension was 1:16.761 how ever there was. Spin out I'm that lap.
My best with 0/0 camber was 1:14.442
What I observed this car has a large Corning window with 0/0 camber solid braking and Corning maintains the speeds I expect in the corners. With camber I had feather the throttle lot I had a much smaller cornering window and prefourmance window for throttle use.
When I compared the laps in the data logger I was over a second a head with camber before I spun it.

I only logged 20 laps 10 each so this is far from what I would call consluive but I'd say there has been a positive impact on lap times and it's looking like a it's a fine tune setting now as it should be get it right and your going to scream around get it wrong and you might as well not even try lol

Edit; I reviewed the data in the full logger not just the quick logger in TT mode. I can't find any place in the logger to show why it's now faster my corner speeds where lower my acceleration was less yet until I spun I was opening on my 0/0 lap, my line was sloppy with camber compairitively speaking my throttle use was chaotic the only thing I was able to do better in every corner was break my speed scrub was faster which makes no sense it should be slower with camber.
 
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As I've told people in another thread, if you are going to test camber and hope to get any kind of positive result, you have to totally re-work the tune. Simply adding camber to your existing tune simply won't cut it. Remember, all suspension parts have to work together. Adding camber to a tune where camber was not intended to be used is not going to give you an accurate result. Re-work the tune with camber involved and you should see better results. Along with what I posted earlier here in this thread, I have also begun to re-work my tune for the GT40 Mark 1 '66 that I am using in the Seasonal TT and have already noticed a positive difference in handling and also just improved my time by .200 with a potential for a whole lot more. If you are just adding camber to an existing tune and hoping for the best, STOP, and re-work the tune. Now, I can't say this is going to hold true for every car on every track, but from what I've experienced so far, all is good. 👍
 
And now is when I am wishing I was good with google sheet line charts graph out the grip curve for each tire and camber setting
 
Does this means all the tunes from the GT6 Tunning Forum I get are no good now.
 
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I haven't done any back-to-back lap time comparisons, but have been checking for changes in balance/handling and I find the difference to be massive.
Changing camber on the Lexus CCS-R from 2/2 to 2/0 gives more oversteer and feels/responds the way I would expect a camber change to do.
But more grip.... I don't know!
 
jules283
I haven't done any back-to-back lap time comparisons, but have been checking for changes in balance/handling and I find the difference to be massive.
Changing camber on the Lexus CCS-R from 2/2 to 2/0 gives more oversteer and feels/responds the way I would expect a camber change to do.
But more grip.... I don't know!
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Based on the Data logger with lateral g force they where virtually identical so I don't know if they have programmed more grip in or not I've only tested once need more data to be sure. One thing fir sure is that there is at least the same grip as 0/0 so we can put camber and not hurt the car now.
 
I'm been trying different camber setting for an hour now.. And I haven't seen an improvent with camber or without. But adding the camber now doesn't make you slower like before, just my times are the same everytime with or without camber.

Like @GTP_CargoRatt said, I'm going to try to make a new setup and rebuild it. And see if that improves, but overall after the update. My times are definitely slower.
 
LLOYDZELITE69
I'm been trying different camber setting for an hour now.. And I haven't seen an improvent with camber or without. But adding the camber now doesn't make you slower like before, just my times are the same everytime with or without camber.

Like @GTP_CargoRatt said, I'm going to try to make a new setup and rebuild it. And see if that improves, but overall after the update. My times are definitely slower.
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Yea, you have to totally rebuild the tune otherwise you are not going to get anywhere. You can't just add camber and think miracles are going to happen, its (camber) not magic. :lol:
 
Woodski_427
Dude, I'd be interested to know what you use on your racing Spit, if it isn't classified :lol:. I believe stock 1500s were supposed to have around -3 deg rear with a normal load. The fronts a slight +ve stock but some -ve for performance or race.

When I get chance I need to test my in-game tune - it just seems wrong to have no camber on the rear at least.
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We use a block to raise the transverse leaf spring to in crease camber from stock. With an old saggy leaf spring we had a lot... with the new stiff one it raised the rear and so we dont have enough anymore. So we need another block.

I would give you the deg of camber if we actually measured

It is Lemons racer junk car... we just eye ball it and wing it. Sometimes we are right, but i was the smart one who rashly threw on the stiff leaf spring without considering the other effects.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
If PD correctly model the camber now, tires ( grip level ), suspension ( springs, damper, ARB and toe ) would have great effect on how much camber to run best. The type of driving also have a hand in how much camber to run, a drift car uses certain suspension setup, a stock factory alignment tend to use closer to 1.0 camber on most cars, an AutoX Evo would better use higher camber 2.0-3.0 with proper springs and sticky semi slick, damper and ARB to support it. So, in a nutshell, camber varies a lot according to track, tire, and suspension.
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👍👍

There are tons of variables that can affect camber, even the style of driving is a major factor. For the few cars i drove, the camber worked as it should.

I tried the Toyota Levin BZ-R(FF) after the BTR, the results were compatible: 0.6 Front / 0.3 Rear, was the best, tried 0.8-F, but it felt like too much.

Testing at the Red Bull Ring, i could clearly see the pros&cons of (-)camber, i was losing traction in 2 corners because they decline, reversing the affect of camber.

It is really about testing each particular situation now. Remember, camber will only show its benefit at the limit.
 
LeoStrop
👍👍

There are tons of variables that can affect camber, even the style of driving is a major factor. For the few cars i drove, the camber worked as it should.

I tried the Toyota Levin BZ-R(FF) after the BTR, the results were compatible: 0.6 Front / 0.3 Rear, was the best, tried 0.8-F, but it felt like too much.

Testing at the Red Bull Ring, i could clearly see the pros&cons of (-)camber, i was losing traction in 2 corners because they decline, reversing the affect of camber.

It is really about testing each particular situation now. Remember, camber will only show its benefit at the limit.
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Another good point I forgot to mention. 👍
 
LeoStrop
👍👍

There are tons of variables that can affect camber, even the style of driving is a major factor. For the few cars i drove, the camber worked as it should.

I tried the Toyota Levin BZ-R(FF) after the BTR, the results were compatible: 0.6 Front / 0.3 Rear, was the best, tried 0.8-F, but it felt like too much.

Testing at the Red Bull Ring, i could clearly see the pros&cons of (-)camber, i was losing traction in 2 corners because they decline, reversing the affect of camber.

It is really about testing each particular situation now. Remember, camber will only show its benefit at the limit.
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I like this point. You have to lean on the tyres to gain an advantage from (-)camber. I'm really looking forward to trying out the new physics.
 
Well I rebuilt a setup, tried different adjustments for a about 4hours. Soft suspension with/without camber, stiff while doing the same and other adjustments. Overall... Nothing really changed much. My speed was consistent and my lap times barely changed. I just find with the HSV, the car I was using, it's just felt it had more understeer, and more stable/safe to drive. Where my setup before was loose but had great grip, had the setup just right for my liking. But I found little amounts of camber ( 0.2f, 0.6r) worked best that I found. But overall after the testing and after the update. I found little difference between with and without camber. But after the update my times in general everywhere are a bit slower.
 
Spitfire77
We use a block to raise the transverse leaf spring to in crease camber from stock. With an old saggy leaf spring we had a lot... with the new stiff one it raised the rear and so we dont have enough anymore. So we need another block.

I would give you the deg of camber if we actually measured

It is Lemons racer junk car... we just eye ball it and wing it. Sometimes we are right, but i was the smart one who rashly threw on the stiff leaf spring without considering the other effects.
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:lol: yes, it did occur to me that you wouldn't measure it but I thought I would ask anyway, thanks. Looks like fun 👍.
 
Before everyone goes too far down the route of "in real life" you have to remember two things.

1st - a game system means that everything is based on a single base system, which is different than the myriad of different chassis systems in real life and their varied handling characteristics.
2nd - The official news is that they updated the tire model, so it should just be about tire dynamics.

Real life approaches (as in more front or more rear) will work, but the number values probably won't.
 
Voodoovaj
Before everyone goes too far down the route of "in real life" you have to remember two things.

1st - a game system means that everything is based on a single base system, which is different than the myriad of different chassis systems in real life and their varied handling characteristics.
2nd - The official news is that they updated the tire model, so it should just be about tire dynamics.

Real life approaches (as in more front or more rear) will work, but the number values probably won't.
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Agreed, you can apply real life theory but don't expect things to work just because you use real life numbers.
 
I built replicas and tunes using real life approach/methods, it works great so far for my garage, several tune of the week :) Of course, some values needs to be ( toe, ARB, damper and LSD ) adapted and tweaked ( camber ), but I'm happy with whatever works in GT6. With spring rate replicated, the stiffness of damper on compression and rebound on some cars works similar to real life setup that I got from real life drivers who setup theirs for track, drift or AutoX. The TEIN BRZ replica was a great example and also the F430 Scuderia ( built with input from real Ferrari F430 Scuderia owner who track his car with custom springs + damper ) :)
 
I updated my wizard with camber prediction. My guess is that it's all based on weight transfer, and I still haven't found any gains above 1.0. ARB levels also make a difference on how effective any camber setting is.

A side note, last night using this new feature, I either got a little better at playing or everyone got worse. If some peeps want to believe camber is still broken, that means more wins for the tuners :D
 
Try higher camber with stiffer springs, lower compression on damper/slightly stiffer or same rebound at rear, weaker rear ARB, more toe in at the rear/toe out at front, more grippy tire ( SM/SS/RH ), it should work well on medium/high speed corner.

Body rigidity would work wonders with high camber :)
 

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