Camber Theory

[Bowtie-muscle]

I'm fairly sure when you put custom suspension onto any car it is replaced with coil overs rather than the coach springs it started with.
Running higher camber at the front should make the turn in quiet aggressive and can lead to mid corner traction loss if set too high, if you wanted to stabilise the rear you should increase the rear camber. The biggest downside I've seen so far is the effect on braking, the more camber you run the less effective your brakes are.
Does the car feel like its kind of tip-toeing on entry? Very darty at the front

Front is fine, better with camber thru the corner as expected but the rear....not so much. Increasing camber did not help at all, if I can get my ps3 back from my daughter, I will play around a little more and try to find it. Managed to get the IROC to handle well but not really grasping this new physics change. Need to start over I think.

 

[DolHaus]

Front is fine, better with camber thru the corner as expected but the rear....not so much. Increasing camber did not help at all, if I can get my ps3 back from my daughter, I will play around a little more and try to find it. Managed to get the IROC to handle well but not really grasping this new physics change. Need to start over I think.

Yeah I've not really had better results starting from the ground up as it gives you a better understanding of what is changing and how you can use it.
One thing I've noticed is that ride height seems to be important to reduce the amount of changes in suspension geometry during compression/extension. If you set it to 1.0 at a normal ride height the amount of travel the suspension has under compression might mean you end up with 3.0 degrees on your outside wheels during some high load corners. This could mean that your angle is way too drastic and losing you grip. If you reduce the ride height (amount of suspension travel), the geometry should change less and stay within grip enhancing areas better. You might need to stiffen the springs and/or dampers to match the new ride height if bottoming out becomes a problem.
I'm finding that in low speed corners you can use camber to get the swift balance/weight changes that you would associate with softer spring rates while running a stiffer setup that is more suited to fast corners

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Yeah I've not really had better results starting from the ground up as it gives you a better understanding of what is changing and how you can use it.
One thing I've noticed is that ride height seems to be important to reduce the amount of changes in suspension geometry during compression/extension. If you set it to 1.0 at a normal ride height the amount of travel the suspension has under compression might mean you end up with 3.0 degrees on your outside wheels during some high load corners. This could mean that your angle is way too drastic and losing you grip. If you reduce the ride height (amount of suspension travel), the geometry should change less and stay within grip enhancing areas better. You might need to stiffen the springs and/or dampers to match the new ride height if bottoming out becomes a problem.
I'm finding that in low speed corners you can use camber to get the swift balance/weight changes that you would associate with softer spring rates while running a stiffer setup that is more suited to fast corners

Dropped suspension and stiffened springs were already on the tune, added camber then started changing settings afterward trying to improve rear grip. PD does not like certain cars and really loves others. Maybe need to play with a different car until I find what I'm looking for.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

[\

I just did essentially this test but with an NSX because at the time I didn't have enough money for an F40. The review notes are only based off of feel but the times surprised me, it felt the same if not a little more sloppy the second time around and it was still faster.

Review of @Ridox2JZGTE's Honda NSX Type R '92 Ayrton Senna Replica
Tested with G27, No aids except ABS = 1

Tires: Comfort Soft

Part 1: Game Version 1.08
This car is nicely balanced and the second MR tune I have driven in GT6, now I understand how MR cars should handle. It tells you how to drive it if you listen, a little more throttle control is needed during sharper corners but it can recover if you catch the rotation early enough. Braking is better in a straight line and there is some lift off throttle rotation (LOTR) but nothing too serious. It attacks corners very well, there is a hint of understeer near exit, but nothing that can't be solved with a little LOTR. There is a little hopping if I take a corner too sharp but otherwise it is very smooth and transitions very well, no snap oversteer.

Tsukuba = 1:07.063
Suzuka = 2.32.534

Part 2: Game Version 1.09
Note: I checked stock suspension settings before and after, camber was at 0/0 and is now at 0.5/1.5 which is close to you're settings on this car.
The main thing I noticed was that the rear felt a little more loose requiring even more concentration at the limit. When getting back on the throttle through the S curves, the limit of grip seemed to become bigger than before but I could still break loose if I pushed hard.

Tsukuba = 1:05.668
Suzuka = 2:29.229

Conclusion: This tune was very well made and it works very well in both versions of the game. I enjoyed throwing this car around the track.

Seems like PD use real life camber alignment for the NSX for the stock suspension ( front camber range 0.3+-0.5, rear camber range 1.5+-0.5 ) I guess the toe do not, but real life 1st gen NSX stock rear toe in is 6mm+-1mm already, very close to 0.60.

Thank you for the detailed review Dabomm4, looks like camber works as expected on comfort tires, I was really worried that all of my replica/tunes would need complete rework. I will still be testing all of them when I got 1.09.
Now I just need to find time to play GT6, got about an hour of PS3 time on Sunday, not sure if I can update, my internet has been having random time outs this week.

 

[Otaliema]

@Bowtie-muscle grab a C7 standard type and dive with that head to Laguna Seca and give it a go with front camber at 2.1 rear at 0.8 on SS tires drop the back to 98 and the front to 118 set about 11kg springs rear and 8 upfront with a 6/4 4/6 damper you should pull a 1:30 .xxx with conservative driving but you can feel the tail slipping out and shaping back in furring the corner with that set up just be nice to the gas! Ohh 600pp how ever you want to set it up do a mid/mid trans set up on it as well keeps the wheels under control.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

I need to amend my findings from last night as I found difference this morning. Camber definately helps, the tire depends on how much you should give but I need to play with it some more. I tuned 2 Sti's for the last FITT Street class, took my backup car to Autumn Ring and could not hit me best lap time for that car, set front camber to 1.0, rear to 0.5 and bam...3 laps and the feeling was back and only .200 behind my best lap time. Took my 2010 Camaro ss and tried it at Silverstone International, did not feel the same just slower and off, 1.5 to the front, 1.0 in the rear and it may be faster now. Certainly feel waaaaay better. It is like a new game and camber is like starting from scratch, but I think I am getting it.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I posted a 370Z GT4 replica, this one was built in 1.08 ( uses high camber similar to real life setup ), tested on 1.09 with a wheel and based on feedback, I posted the replica as is with no changes from 1.08

RJN Motorsport NISMO Nissan Fairlady 370Z ( Z34 ) '08 GT4 Replica
Tuned to replicate RJN NISMO 370Z GT4
Team PlayStation GT Academy
Sports Soft​

View attachment 174714
​

CAR : Nissan Fairlady 370Z (Z34) '08
Tire : Sports Soft

Specs
Horsepower: 404 HP / 410PS at 7200 RPM
Torque : 321.0 ft-lb at 5500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 98.3%
Weight: 1300 kg
Ballast : 76 kg
Ballast Position : -24
Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 - as in real life.
Performance Points: 503


GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED IN THIS BUILD ) - MANDATORY as GT4 cars are seam welded and has weld in cage.
Custom Rear Wing :
Wing Mount Standard Type D
Wing Large Type A
Winglets Type C
Height -2 and Width +15
Wheels : Standard Size OZ Racing Botticelli III in Black
Car Paint : Black or Yellow or Matte Black or Red


Tuning Parts Installed :
Racing Exhaust
Intake Tuning
Isometric Exhaust Manifold
Twin Plate Clutch
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Racing Brakes Kit
Weigh Reduction Stage 3
Carbon Hood ( Body Color )
Window Weight Reduction


Suspension -Coilover with Uprated Swift Springs and 2 Way Bilstein Damper
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 100 100
Spring Rate: 16.00 16.00
Dampers (Compression): 6 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 7
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
Camber Angle: 3.3 1.7
Toe Angle: -0.16 0.08

View attachment 174731​

LSD - 2 Way NISMO GT LSD High Preload
Initial Torque : 20
Acceleration Sensitivity: 36
Braking Sensitivity: 30


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - QUAIFE 370Z 6 Speed Sequential Racing Gearbox with Stock Final
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Final to 4.768
Set Auto Max Speed at 220kmh / 137mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 2.770
2nd 2.057
3rd 1.579
4th 1.260
5th 1.104
6th 1.000
Set Final : 3.692


AERO
REAR : 20 ( MAX )


Brake Balance:
5/4 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 5/4, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I recommend to run 5/4 for ABS 1.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/4 brake balance as starting point.

View attachment 174732
​

Notes :
My 1st built among many of GT4 cars that are on the works. I was fascinated by this car as I read on GT Academy winners racing it at Endurance races in Europe. A few years back it was 350Z, but from a couple of years ago, 370Z is used.

I based this replica on the latest 370Z GT4, built by RJN Motorsport with extensive parts from NISMO bin The engine is unique ( HR version fly by wire throttle ), natural aspiration + tuned exhaust and NISMO expertise + parts, stroked to 3.8 litres, produces close to 440HP. For BOP ( balance of performance ), the engine is tuned to produce 410PS instead or 404HP.

The body has been lightened and seam welded with weld in cage, the car tips the scale at 1300kg.

Suspension comes from custom coilover with Swift springs and 2 way Bilstein damper. I set the springs at both 16kg/mm to maintain solid composure during hard cornering. The balance is very well maintained from entry to exit. Camber has been set quite aggressively to provide much needed traction on medium to high speed corners. Damper and ARB are tuned for less roll, but still gives some room for the tire to flex and grip with traction by minimizing excess weight transfer under acceleration.

The car uses QUAIFE 6 speed sequential gearbox, with specific ratio setup for 370Z, while still using stock final. This gives the 370Z good spread with plenty of pull and respectable top speed at just over 260km/h. Lower the final if wanted more top speed. The real car has twin plate Alcon Clutch, and twin plate clutch is installed in this build.

LSD comes from NISMO GT Plate LSD, I setup a 2 way with high preload to maximize traction. Brakes IRL comes from Alcon with 6 pot front and 4 pot rear and large diameter discs.

The rear wing is custom, there are variances in real life, some uses low profile rear wing that looks close to NISMO wing, some uses bigger carbon fiber GT style wing. I used custom wing in this replica.

To replicate the lap time done during European GT4 Cup, I used Sports Soft tire. The real life 370Z GT4 laps Silverstone GP at 2:15.069 back in 2011 GT European Cup in the hands of Jordan Tresson / Alex Buncombe, GTA winner. On SS tires, the replica easily can break into 2:14s, similar to the quickest GT4 cars in real life ( M3 GT4 )

I also tested the car at Brands Hatch GP and Bathurst back in 1.08. Thanks to the help of @danbojte with further testing the car on 1.09 and wheel, the tune proved to be solid and posted as is. The replica should also work on Racing Hard tire.


ENJOY

View attachment 174743


View attachment 174744

If the rest of my GT4 cars built in 1.08 can be driven on 1.09, this is shocking

 

[Otaliema]

I posted a 370Z GT4 replica, this one was built in 1.08 ( uses high camber similar to real life setup ), tested on 1.09 with a wheel and based on feedback, I posted the replica as is with no changes from 1.08



If the rest of my GT4 cars built in 1.08 can be driven on 1.09, this is shocking

You are going to be one of the few garages that will be mostly unaffected by this update and will be totally clear when they fix the RH bug. I've been finding my self keeping my RH difference to a min do when it's fixed I don't to overhaul just flip the numbers if needed.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

@Bowtie-muscle grab a C7 standard type and dive with that head to Laguna Seca and give it a go with front camber at 2.1 rear at 0.8 on SS tires drop the back to 98 and the front to 118 set about 11kg springs rear and 8 upfront with a 6/4 4/6 damper you should pull a 1:30 .xxx with conservative driving but you can feel the tail slipping out and shaping back in furring the corner with that set up just be nice to the gas! Ohh 600pp how ever you want to set it up do a mid/mid trans set up on it as well keeps the wheels under control.

Had some unexpected time to try this last night, did not agree with your findings (sorry). PD and this stupid update seriously would make Santa Claus punt the Easter Bunny if either actually existed. It has me waffling more than a politician on social issues!!!.....Took the GT Concept C7 (blue one) to Redbull Ring short version at 600pp on SS tires. Crap I say, total crap. Played with camber all over the place and there was absolutely NO REAR GRIP. Easily spin on exit unless you were real gentle on throttle or waited until you were going straight. Infuriating. Gave up and droppedpower down to 550pp and changed nothing else. Instant grip, instant rocket ship. Go figure......on to a 5oopp car on SH and it's a totally different game. Now, explain that one

 

[Otaliema]

Had some unexpected time to try this last night, did not agree with your findings (sorry). PD and this stupid update seriously would make Santa Claus punt the Easter Bunny if either actually existed. It has me waffling more than a politician on social issues!!!.....Took the GT Concept C7 (blue one) to Redbull Ring short version at 600pp on SS tires. Crap I say, total crap. Played with camber all over the place and there was absolutely NO REAR GRIP. Easily spin on exit unless you were real gentle on throttle or waited until you were going straight. Infuriating. Gave up and droppedpower down to 550pp and changed nothing else. Instant grip, instant rocket ship. Go figure......on to a 5oopp car on SH and it's a totally different game. Now, explain that one

As to the tire spin yeah I agree but can you put 700+hp down to the pavement with out traction control and not spin the tires with out carful throttle control IRL? I mean 700hp race cars spin the tires on racing slicks.

As for the different animal with lower pp I think that comes down to how much stress the tires are getting, high the pp the higher the stress.

Maybe the different handling of the cars is a side effect if the improved tire models?

 

[bread82]

Does anyone think that, compared to 1.08, comfort tyres feel more progressive (for identical settings 1.08 and 1.09 e.g toe 0/0 camber 0/0)? I wonder how in-depth the contact patch changes they mentioned are (i.e. it's not just "camber 0.0 in 1.08 = camber 1.0 in 1.09")?

After trying the default 0.5F/1.5R, having set toe to 0/0 I dropped both cambers to zero and then built them back up again together (stock S13, CS tyres). More camber generally felt more progressive, but I don't know if it gave more grip overall, maybe it just made it easier to drive as I could feel the limit approaching.

When I put the front camber up to 1.0 or 1.5, keeping the rear at 1.5, it felt to me like the steering became more responsive, slicing the nose in quickly, but then the front smudged out shortly after, particularly in tight corners (Tsukuba hairpin before back straight, and also hairpin after the small esses - Turn 4 I think).

I think without knowing how the default caster works exactly, it could be that in long sweepers there is not much added outside front camber, so decent grip, but with the steering at a higher lock, the outside front gains too much camber and you lose grip. This would explain the initial grip followed by understeer as more lock is applied. In replays it does often look like the front outside tilts a hell of a lot as you steer.

My gut feeling would be that a good setup would be similar to the PD defaults, i.e. lower front camber (because you'll add to it when steering), and a bit more rear camber (since that obviously doesn't change when steering).

Overall I'm pretty happy with this update, I think no-one is certain that PD have got things completely sorted, but it feels like a big step in the right direction.

Cheers,

Bread

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

As to the tire spin yeah I agree but can you put 700+hp down to the pavement with out traction control and not spin the tires with out carful throttle control IRL? I mean 700hp race cars spin the tires on racing slicks.

As for the different animal with lower pp I think that comes down to how much stress the tires are getting, high the pp the higher the stress.

Maybe the different handling of the cars is a side effect if the improved tire models?

700hp should give wheel spin without TC, however I tried with TC1. Coming off the first turn, get the car straight, would just spin out 100 yards later. Car flopping and unsavable, felt like driving on CS tires. ZRI AT 600PP IS COMPLETELY DRIVEABLE with expected wheel spin on exit. C7 was not this bad before the update. As DS3 user, am I being forced to use aids to be competitive at 600pp? Or to use racing tires? Very frustrated, but if I stay between 450-550 I can do just fine. Provided I use softer tire.

 

[Otaliema]

@Bowtie-muscle I hear yeah I'm on the same boat. I could drive 650-700 pp on gt5 but I could only manage 600 if I was careful in gt6 due to tire spin without aids I think the improved tire model and lack if individual button calibration is what has done it

 

[bread82]

I posted some pictures and a test result in the ride height thread to do with rake and camber (as the discussion started there), but I'm posting a link here:
Ride Height Glitch Returns in GT6

 

[Lawndart]

There is a lot of talk about camber, how it works, how people think it should work, etc. As a driver we are more concerned about what it does than how it does it. It changes the dynamics of a car and that changes the feeling of the car to the driver. Traditional definitions will tell you that it’s about increasing footprint, and though that is accurate, it’s not that simple. A driver might say it’s about ‘bite’, why? Because you can feel it… and that leads to confidence, confidence is what makes speed… and it can bite back…

Sounds simple right? Camber can mess up the dynamics of your car MUCH easier than enhance it. And Camber can cost you tenths if not a second off your lap if you don’t know how to use it, and a big part of that is knowing what it’s doing. Allow me to articulate below:

Picture time:

View attachment 183828

Shot 1 - Here I am entering turn 2 at Laguna Seca, a double apex turn. The red sausage strip is the first Apex. The car is starting to slide while trail breaking as I’m attempting to rotate the rear for a more aggressive angle of attack. My head is naturally looking at the second Apex.

View attachment 183829

Shot 2 – Camber starts doing its job at this point. At the first Apex, the car is now in a 4 wheel ‘slide’ at a good slip angle. Now look at all my wheels, the right front (most of my grip) is perfectly horizontal, you can’t even see flex in the tire, I’m at full grip. What you can’t see is the right rear tire but its working hard as I am on the throttle at this point… If I lifted off the throttle the car would snap into a (inside) spin at this point. Now look at the left side, look at how hard the tires are flexing and being ‘dragged’ through the slip angle, offering grip but not a lot, in fact they are producing a large amount of drag, but it’s a fair trade off to be 2/3rds throttle and stable.

View attachment 183830

Now this is a telling shot. Now traveling through the second Apex, the car is stable and at max grip with neutral throttle… notice the inside (left side) tires, especially the rear, the foot print is very small, nearly lifting the tires off the track. To a much lesser degree this would also happen to the outside (right side) tires with no negative camber.

Now for a different angle:

View attachment 183831

Same place, notice the left front wheel is nearly off the ground…

View attachment 183832

Turn exit, full throttle, still turning slightly, grip still on the outside tires… Camber is still very relevant here as it’s now compensating for a small degree of flex though it’s not as visible.

Pretty simple right? So what’s the down side? In short, you have a reduced steering radios and need to plan your turns much further in advance based on how much camber you have. That same mechanic that gives you grip also slows you down. Turning the wheel too much in a turn with a lot of camber will slow you down as fast as throwing an anchor out the window…

Here is an example of camber working against you, back to turn 2…

View attachment 183833

Damn Datsan 510’s… But they are FAST and a favorite with pro drivers so they run in a different class. But racing is racing and I held my line but just look at what’s all wrong here… My wheels are perfectly vertical, but I’m going too fast, my tires are flexing hard despite all the camber, suspension is all bound, and I’m turning so hard that my front ties are like shoveling snow… I bled off so much speed the 510 past me in the very next corner…

In summary: Camber does not = speed… Camber can increase your slip angle + feel stability in the turn + confidence = speed… lots of camber requires lots of early planning. Driving style needs to change to maximize the advantage of aggressive camber. Too much camber and I can’t slide the rear out as easily at turn in, but it gives me very even stability throughout the turn and rewards you for smooth driving.

That was a good day for racing...
View attachment 183834

 

[daan]

There is a lot of talk about camber,

Merged with existing thread, although I am unsure about the relevance of real life pictures in a GT6 thread.

 

[Motor City Hami]

There is a lot of talk about camber,

Yep.

But real world and GT6 are a distance apart. I really, really wish the game reported tire temps. That would solve this whole testing issue.

I have some in-game test results coming. Will try to publish this weekend. Been saving the data logger screens and looking for a way to compare the results better than one vs. one in the data logger.

 

[bread82]

@Motor City Hami - if you want to crunch a lot of logger data I have a suggestion, but it is unfortunately a bit long winded. If you can get camera pics of your logger graphs you can use an online graph digitiser to manually click on points and scales on the image, then export the coordinates to excel. I've done this with GT6 dyno graphs and it works OK. Probably a real pain in the arse unless you're analysing single corners - but in theory given enough patience you could get the whole lot into an excel file and plot them side by side.

Beautiful pics of both MX-5's by the way. Itching for something light and rear wheel drive in real life at the moment.

 

[Lawndart]

Yep.

But real world and GT6 are a distance apart. I really, really wish the game reported tire temps. That would solve this whole testing issue.

I have some in-game test results coming. Will try to publish this weekend. Been saving the data logger screens and looking for a way to compare the results better than one vs. one in the data logger.

Agreed... There really does need to be more telemitry. Forza did a good job of real time temps and suspension...

Merged with existing thread, although I am unsure about the relevance of real life pictures in a GT6 thread.

The pics are for reference, having a visual to go along with an explanation and description of what is actually happening helps some people.

 

[DolHaus]

There is a lot of talk about camber, how it works, how people think it should work, etc. As a driver we are more concerned about what it does than how it does it. It changes the dynamics of a car and that changes the feeling of the car to the driver. Traditional definitions will tell you that it’s about increasing footprint, and though that is accurate, it’s not that simple. A driver might say it’s about ‘bite’, why? Because you can feel it… and that leads to confidence, confidence is what makes speed… and it can bite back…

Sounds simple right? Camber can mess up the dynamics of your car MUCH easier than enhance it. And Camber can cost you tenths if not a second off your lap if you don’t know how to use it, and a big part of that is knowing what it’s doing. Allow me to articulate below:

Picture time:

View attachment 183828

Shot 1 - Here I am entering turn 2 at Laguna Seca, a double apex turn. The red sausage strip is the first Apex. The car is starting to slide while trail breaking as I’m attempting to rotate the rear for a more aggressive angle of attack. My head is naturally looking at the second Apex.

View attachment 183829

Shot 2 – Camber starts doing its job at this point. At the first Apex, the car is now in a 4 wheel ‘slide’ at a good slip angle. Now look at all my wheels, the right front (most of my grip) is perfectly horizontal, you can’t even see flex in the tire, I’m at full grip. What you can’t see is the right rear tire but its working hard as I am on the throttle at this point… If I lifted off the throttle the car would snap into a (inside) spin at this point. Now look at the left side, look at how hard the tires are flexing and being ‘dragged’ through the slip angle, offering grip but not a lot, in fact they are producing a large amount of drag, but it’s a fair trade off to be 2/3rds throttle and stable.

View attachment 183830

Now this is a telling shot. Now traveling through the second Apex, the car is stable and at max grip with neutral throttle… notice the inside (left side) tires, especially the rear, the foot print is very small, nearly lifting the tires off the track. To a much lesser degree this would also happen to the outside (right side) tires with no negative camber.

Now for a different angle:

View attachment 183831

Same place, notice the left front wheel is nearly off the ground…

View attachment 183832

Turn exit, full throttle, still turning slightly, grip still on the outside tires… Camber is still very relevant here as it’s now compensating for a small degree of flex though it’s not as visible.

Pretty simple right? So what’s the down side? In short, you have a reduced steering radios and need to plan your turns much further in advance based on how much camber you have. That same mechanic that gives you grip also slows you down. Turning the wheel too much in a turn with a lot of camber will slow you down as fast as throwing an anchor out the window…

Here is an example of camber working against you, back to turn 2…

View attachment 183833

Damn Datsan 510’s… But they are FAST and a favorite with pro drivers so they run in a different class. But racing is racing and I held my line but just look at what’s all wrong here… My wheels are perfectly vertical, but I’m going too fast, my tires are flexing hard despite all the camber, suspension is all bound, and I’m turning so hard that my front ties are like shoveling snow… I bled off so much speed the 510 past me in the very next corner…

In summary: Camber does not = speed… Camber can increase your slip angle + feel stability in the turn + confidence = speed… lots of camber requires lots of early planning. Driving style needs to change to maximize the advantage of aggressive camber. Too much camber and I can’t slide the rear out as easily at turn in, but it gives me very even stability throughout the turn and rewards you for smooth driving.

That was a good day for racing...
View attachment 183834

Great work, lovely explanation of the ideas in practice. Thank you for sharing 👍

 

[Motor City Hami]

@Motor City Hami - if you want to crunch a lot of logger data

I am having trouble finding anything meaningful in the data logger. For example, I have a tune that I ran with camber at 0/0, 0.5/0.5, 1/1 and 2/2. There is a lap time progression and a feeling of overall turning ability that seems to follow the a pattern.

0/0 @ 1:26.179
0.5/0.5 @ 1:26.444
1/1 @ 1:26.769
2/2 @ 1:27.434

When comparing the slowest to the fastest, there are a few corners that show a wide enough difference in speed to be significant. But comparing the best time with the third best and with a lap time difference of only 0.590 the speed difference is really underwhelming. The only data point that I am finding useful is steering angle. I can make the one degree camber tune run almost as fast as the zero camber tune, but in every corner, I am using far more wheel input to make it happen. That is a useful enough set of numbers to tell me something.

I was also looking at wheel speed, but how can my front tires be traveling 78 mph and my rear tires be traveling at 137 mph on the straight away? Something just isn't right there.

 

[Stotty]

I am having trouble finding anything meaningful in the data logger. For example, I have a tune that I ran with camber at 0/0, 0.5/0.5, 1/1 and 2/2. There is a lap time progression and a feeling of overall turning ability that seems to follow the a pattern.

0/0 @ 1:26.179
0.5/0.5 @ 1:26.444
1/1 @ 1:26.769
2/2 @ 1:27.434

When comparing the slowest to the fastest, there are a few corners that show a wide enough difference in speed to be significant. But comparing the best time with the third best and with a lap time difference of only 0.590 the speed difference is really underwhelming. The only data point that I am finding useful is steering angle. I can make the one degree camber tune run almost as fast as the zero camber tune, but in every corner, I am using far more wheel input to make it happen. That is a useful enough set of numbers to tell me something.

I was also looking at wheel speed, but how can my front tires be traveling 78 mph and my rear tires be traveling at 137 mph on the straight away? Something just isn't right there.

👍

My unscientific testing (using the X-Bow in the current Seasonal TT) tells me the same... very small differences as you add camber, but ultimately lap times deteriorate progressively as you add more camber.

Never understood what tyre speeds are showing given the stupidly high front:rear differentials

 

[DolHaus]

I am having trouble finding anything meaningful in the data logger. For example, I have a tune that I ran with camber at 0/0, 0.5/0.5, 1/1 and 2/2. There is a lap time progression and a feeling of overall turning ability that seems to follow the a pattern.

0/0 @ 1:26.179
0.5/0.5 @ 1:26.444
1/1 @ 1:26.769
2/2 @ 1:27.434

When comparing the slowest to the fastest, there are a few corners that show a wide enough difference in speed to be significant. But comparing the best time with the third best and with a lap time difference of only 0.590 the speed difference is really underwhelming. The only data point that I am finding useful is steering angle. I can make the one degree camber tune run almost as fast as the zero camber tune, but in every corner, I am using far more wheel input to make it happen. That is a useful enough set of numbers to tell me something.

I was also looking at wheel speed, but how can my front tires be traveling 78 mph and my rear tires be traveling at 137 mph on the straight away? Something just isn't right there.

I had a look for differences in the rim size the other day and noticed that for some reason the larger rim had about twice the wheel speed in the data logger. I think its a glitch and it might effect the viper because the front/rear wheels are different sizes

 

[Motor City Hami]

I had a look for differences in the rim size the other day and noticed that for some reason the larger rim had about twice the wheel speed in the data logger. I think its a glitch and it might effect the viper because the front/rear wheels are different sizes

I was testing with a Viper GTS '13 on one inch up rims. I think (does it) that car has different front/rear rim sizes? The odd thing is that it only shows up on two of the six test runs. On four of them the numbers are normal. I even tried swapping slot one and slot two in the data logger and the glitch carried over or followed the lap time.

 

[DolHaus]

I was testing with a Viper GTS '13 on one inch up rims. I think (does it) that car has different front/rear rim sizes? The odd thing is that it only shows up on two of the six test runs. On four of them the numbers are normal. I even tried swapping slot one and slot two in the data logger and the glitch carried over or followed the lap time.

I haven't tried with the viper so I can't say for certain if there is a glitch and if it covers all cars. I think I tried with an S2000 maybe? I will try to have a look later and get some pictures for comparison.

 

[Otaliema]

The only explanation I've read on the wheel speed differences that made some sense (other that data logger glitching) is...what was did he call it...wheel slip ratio...no that doesn't sound right, but it was basically stated that the tires are slipping at x % due to the power of the car.
Would be fairly easy to test, three different tires on the car, see if the speed difference increases and decreases from the middle type.

I'll dig around the threads see if i can find that post again and will post the link again, I think it was in one of the data logger threads shortly after it came out.

 

[Motor City Hami]

The only explanation I've read on the wheel speed differences that made some sense (other that data logger glitching) is...what was did he call it...wheel slip ratio...no that doesn't sound right, but it was basically stated that the tires are slipping at x % due to the power of the car.
Would be fairly easy to test, three different tires on the car, see if the speed difference increases and decreases from the middle type.

I'll dig around the threads see if i can find that post again and will post the link again, I think it was in one of the data logger threads shortly after it came out.

I have six saved runs on the same track and only two had the glitch. Plus, since it was at Trial Mt., I checked in an area of flat straight away. There is a 60 mph difference between front and rear wheels in a straight line all the way up into 5th gear. The car was tracking in a straight line with no red/yellow tires and gaining speed like normal. It's just weird.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Tire slip do exist in GT6, I noticed this on my F40 build when I drove it at SSR7 on both comfort soft and sports soft. Different rpm on higher speed ( even on 5th gear ). GT6 speedometer is measured based on vehicle speed relative to the road, not actual wheel speed. The data logger might be having a glitch if the difference is really big

 

[Otaliema]

I have six saved runs on the same track and only two had the glitch. Plus, since it was at Trial Mt., I checked in an area of flat straight away. There is a 60 mph difference between front and rear wheels in a straight line all the way up into 5th gear. The car was tracking in a straight line with no red/yellow tires and gaining speed like normal. It's just weird.

That is weird, I do think we can call it a glitch , why is the bigger a company gets the more wing nut stuff they do and think they can get away with it?

Tire slip do exist in GT6, I noticed this on my F40 build when I drove it at SSR7 on both comfort soft and sports soft. Different rpm on higher speed ( even on 5th gear )

If it is tire slip, than putting softer tires on the car should make it get smaller right?

I've never driven a car IRL that has enough power to cause tire slip in a straight line but wouldn't that cause the tires to heat up, or cause tracking issues?

 

[Otaliema]

Quick test not nearly enough to prove one way or another but it's a start.
I took my Viper GTS with the tune for trial mountain to High speed ring.
This is the average* difference in drive wheel speed to actual speed.
actual speed/drive wheel speed difference
End of the front straight
SH 297/314 17 km/h
SM 298/315 17 km/h
SS 299/314 15 km/h
middle between turn 3-4
SH 218/236 18 km/h
SM 218/234 16 km/h
SS 223/238 15 km/h
middle between turn 5-turn 6
SH 217/234 17 km/h
SM 205/222 17 km/h
SS 225/239 14 km/h
middle between turn 7-start finish line
SH 244/262 18 km/h
SM 231/248 17 km/h
SS 242/258 16 km/h

All speeds taken at point of full throttle in ruffly the same distance on the track +/- 100m