Camber
- Thread starter esoxhntr
- 894 comments
- 54,417 views
- Status
- 2,976
- Sweden
Let me ad that wight transfer works perfectly well in GT6. IE this means that camber settings must be tuned for the outside tyre(s), not the inside. To counter the inside loss of grip, springs and dambers, toe, and in case of FF and AWD, LSD (of course for FR and MR aswell, but less important in conjunction with front camber).
- 105
- South West
Jack you have been saying for some time in this discussion that the inside tyre is the one that needs focusing on. But now you are "making it clear" that you don't just focus on the inside tyre but look to strike a balance between the two.
I think it is time (as others have asked plenty of times) for you to provide a car and a setup that we can all test and report back. Also, talking abut castor in this instance is irrelevant (IRL is a totally different beast) as we cannot adjust it and even if it is dynamic and represented by the physics engine we cant confirm that or use measurements involving it as there is no way to know.
I think it is time (as others have asked plenty of times) for you to provide a car and a setup that we can all test and report back. Also, talking abut castor in this instance is irrelevant (IRL is a totally different beast) as we cannot adjust it and even if it is dynamic and represented by the physics engine we cant confirm that or use measurements involving it as there is no way to know.
- 384
- Sao Paulo
- dpinho1975
Guys, come on...
Why all of us are still taking this person serious?
Let's move forward.
We all know who can bring us some positive results with settings here.
I want waste my time with game progression, serious and most of all, TRANSPARENT discussion about tuning.
Jack, you want come in? You are welcome!
So open your garage or please live.
Why all of us are still taking this person serious?
Let's move forward.
We all know who can bring us some positive results with settings here.
I want waste my time with game progression, serious and most of all, TRANSPARENT discussion about tuning.
Jack, you want come in? You are welcome!
So open your garage or please live.
SCClockDr
Premium
- 459
- Union, SC
- SCClockDr29379
Sounds great in theory but for some applications I see the car cornering under full throttle with the inside front wheel 3" off the surface and that car is going like a bat out of h--l. If the tune will support enough forward bite and lateral grip to lift the inside front then that machine will produce a fast exit. As for the game I've yet to see a car that can produce those dynamics but the aim is the same. (Max forward bite with max lateral grip.)
The current camber physics do not appear to provide much/any grip enhancement but will improve balance in some instances thus improving lap times.
- 672
- Fort Worth, TX
- imtolegittoquit
He's saying that the inside tire is not important because on a very stiff setup with very sticky tires, THE INSIDE TIRE IS NOT TOUCHING THE F'ING GROUND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you could have infinite camber and it is irrelevant. Jack don't pretend that you are a IRL racer. don't try to insult other peoples intelligence when you just obviously are ignoring all evidence given while also providing absolutely zero yourself. You've said you were going to post results, tunes, and pictures... Many of us had tried to give you a chance to be taken seriously but you've ruined that opportunity for me. You're opinion means nothing in this forum anymore but if I ever need an inside tire lobbyist, i'll keep you in mind.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
- 156
- United Kingdom
Right on! Although at this point I think we've discussed this one to death - it's time for PD to respond either verbally or patchally (did I just make a word up?).
- 107
- Sydney
- HOOT44
Fiat500 '68, or at least it comes very close to showing these dynamics. I have seen front inside wheel off the ground in replay, but tuned to reduce it.
It has rear wheel drive and can be tuned to just over 500pp. It can be very tricky to drive at this pp level, but with a reasonable tune it is controllable and really nippy in corners. I am still working on that fine tune for it, but I am sure even a quick tune gives you a car that is really fun to drive, at least if you enjoy a bit of a challenge.
It is one of my favourite cars in this game at the moment especially on gravel. On tarmac, Silverstone Stowe loop is a great test track for it.
As far as camber goes it would also be a good test car because it is really agile and suspension has good strong movement in all directions.
If you try to tame it please let me see your tunes.
- 3,781
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
I've posted in the Camber theory thread that I believe the physics is reading the camber value as positive, while the visual is reading it as negative. Positive camber would be consistent with everyone's findings and considering it is a positive value in the UI (unlike Toe), it's also quite likely.
Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
I see it like this..
Getting the front dialled in is going to go hand in hand with dialling in the rear..
When tuning the front, you can only be as aggressive on the inside tire as the outside tire will allow.
However
You can only be as aggressive on the front as the rear end will allow.
Camber & Toe work as a team
Using our toe to manipulate turn in and exit, transition to and from riding our camber angles through the corner in the front, in the rear to help containment of rotation.
Finding the sweet spot in the front for a corner is easiest be it to help an over steering nightmare, or give a pig some turn, if you look for it starting at the neg to pos transition point. We tweak according to track as with most tweaks.
It seems the effect is best if you start at the transition point like Zero... From our "Dynamic" Zero being the neg to pos transition point. From that point raise the camber setting to ride neg camb in the corner or lower it to ride pos camb through the corner..
I'll post a thread giving techniques to use this better, as others test out what I've exposed (sorry to those who would of preferred this kept secrete for competitive edge) I think Ive provided something worth at least testing out...
Demo car
It's important to note, that adding the huge 6.0 neg camb in the front of the YB made a huge impact to performance... Not often such a big change for one adjustment.
To cure that oversteer with ballast compromises in the rest of the set up are made. Jacking the front brake bias, accommodating the added weight with SR and damps, even tweaked ARB to accommodate the extra weight, when this unnecessary.
Compromises are used to get around using tuned wheel angles. People over many years have become accustomed to this tuning style and pushing it, not easy to readjust after so many years getting good driving cars tuned like that.
A Ruf YB or X-Bow or any tune using ballast needlessly is compromised. The ballast is a crutch and using ballast the tune is built around the crutch, nothing ideal as ballast is used to cure something that can be dealt with through wheel angle tuning.
If a maxed out PP Tune relies on ballast, it's not maxed as the ballast cripples it. The non ballast tune having a higher PP, less mass & tuned wheel angles is a no compromise set up unrestricted by added weight.
I prefer to tune to keep the natural character of the car being tuned. This is almost more important to me than nailing the fastest lap times compared to others, so long as I'm still fast. I want my cars to feel and drive as realistically as possible..
Driving MCH's X-Bow I was surprised, much faster then I was expecting. I can actually take the time to adjust to a tune and give it a good run before formulating an opinion. No 5 lap BS testing. Multi Track & many many laps to get a real feel of it.
Driving MCH's X-Bow it at first felt like driving an alien spaceship on wheels, totally weird. HOWEVER after about five laps feeling it out and adjusting my driving to the car it was MUCH faster then I was expecting, but wow, feels very odd while driving... It can be driven fast and hard although This is a Video game(ish) feel I do not like at all. Still it's not slow at all, just 110 pounds too heavy compromised with 50kg of ballast not driving at its full potential. "Ballast crippled" I like to call it.. Obviously when you pull the ballast from the car it becomes useless, not worth driving, so it was ballast to the rescue NOT ideal tuning.
My X-Bow not using ballast has a more natural feel, and has more potential not being held down by ballast weight... Also in my hands my camber tuned car is much much faster. I'm able to knock .5 easy off any lap vs running the ballast tuned car.
If No compromised is made tuning the car, then the car can be tuned to PD instructions on all settings while compromised set ups will say something or the other is broken to explain why they have a diff like 11/11/11 or 3/3 3/3 3/3 damps and ARB...
Many cars have been tuned oddly using other settings to fix the things that can be fixed with wheel angles throwing off how the car responds to advanced tuning tweaks makes people bang head confused by weird test result.....
On a compromised tune they try to add camber after the cars been tuned without and are surprised its not working as they thought it should. These cars feel funny to me, but it's been the style pushed for years and many at GTP are accustomed to.
Adding camb to a car with all other settings already dialled in with camb zero is difficult and drivers who have spent many years driving /tuning using camb zero & camber avoiding techniques , it will take adjusting to driving with tuned camb AND get used to using camber for things they used to use other techniques, like adding ballast to calm down an over steering nightmare..
How we'll has camber been tested IF this aspect of camber tuning has not been tested at all AND the testing that has been done is on the logic using front camber is to flatten the outside tire when camber doesn't flatten out the outside front? Or the logic simply raising camb from zero magically adds grip in the corner on the outside tire just being raised from zero on a liner bases, that doesn't even make sense IRL, let alone a sim style game.
I'm not going to give quality tunes so the fact twisters can BS them. I'll let this all get tested by open minded tuners and drivers, when it's more understood and tested by others. X-Bow (no ballast) + full PP no ballast Ruf YB, tweaked GT350 and more will be released. It takes adjusting to camber tuned driving and with some bashing set ups unwilling to give them more than a few laps before trashing this so far is a poor effort to really test camber tuning not worth providing tunes for. Seems they are more intent on forcing the OPINION camber is broken then truly seeing camber tunes work as it would mean they were wrong, can't admit that now can they....
I guess this is going to be either bashed as BS OR even better the thread will get flooded with people posting IRL stuff confusing instead of helping clarify, deny it's real world applicability or somehow try to act like they already knew this but IDK enter excuse here _______ why it's never been tested in ALL the camber testing ETC, as they say they tested camber to death...... Not really huh, test one theory (that makes no sense) using random camber settings, unbalance camber f/r... No surprise the results were as they were. No real understanding of what to expect & how can you from random values. Like throwing a dart blindfolded at a board with random camber values to choose a camber setting to test. What did you really expect? More grip just raising it from Zero? How's that work??? How do you tune that and for what? Understeer? Oversteer? Makes no sense...
Don't like me or my approach? It don't matter, it's not easy going against the force fed GTP consensus... I don't back down, and I'm clever enough to do so..
Ohh the Avatar is default if you don't pic an Avatar but click male in the the gender question during creating my GTP account, but you can call me Jackie if you like
probably some women Tuners out there that could spank you in a few ways 
Heck PMS dealership with one if my Favourite cars in GT6, sexy Camaro RS.
I am French And while coincidental Jack Napier is a Joker alias, Napier is a common French name. I like the coincidence and roll with it. Maybe a joker card Avatar...
The important think to take from all this is;
Camber has not been proven to be Broken in GT6 and the test that have been done thus far have not properly tested camber, in any way other than proving the "camber should start adding grip being raised from zero on a liner path" THEORY to be untrue in GT6...
Now you have a new theory to test, one that I believe is more on point with how camber tuning was intended to be done by the game designer.
I expect a lot of mixed results at first as people will have to adjust to tuning with camber, adjust how they tune other setting & get used to tuned camb driving if they truly are interested in seeing if camber works correctly or not in GT6
I've been improving my ability to take advantage of camber tuning, this dispute I have to thank for getting my technique more refined. Thank You. Reminds me of the CanIbus shout out on LLcoolJ"s come back album years back. Thank you GTP for pushing me to get better and refine my techniques.
The proof is literally dependant on your willingness as a Tuner/Driver to see. So the only one who can really prove it to you(the reader) is yourself...
Getting the front dialled in is going to go hand in hand with dialling in the rear..
When tuning the front, you can only be as aggressive on the inside tire as the outside tire will allow.
However
You can only be as aggressive on the front as the rear end will allow.
Camber & Toe work as a team
Using our toe to manipulate turn in and exit, transition to and from riding our camber angles through the corner in the front, in the rear to help containment of rotation.
Finding the sweet spot in the front for a corner is easiest be it to help an over steering nightmare, or give a pig some turn, if you look for it starting at the neg to pos transition point. We tweak according to track as with most tweaks.
It seems the effect is best if you start at the transition point like Zero... From our "Dynamic" Zero being the neg to pos transition point. From that point raise the camber setting to ride neg camb in the corner or lower it to ride pos camb through the corner..
I'll post a thread giving techniques to use this better, as others test out what I've exposed (sorry to those who would of preferred this kept secrete for competitive edge) I think Ive provided something worth at least testing out...
Demo car
It's important to note, that adding the huge 6.0 neg camb in the front of the YB made a huge impact to performance... Not often such a big change for one adjustment.
To cure that oversteer with ballast compromises in the rest of the set up are made. Jacking the front brake bias, accommodating the added weight with SR and damps, even tweaked ARB to accommodate the extra weight, when this unnecessary.
Compromises are used to get around using tuned wheel angles. People over many years have become accustomed to this tuning style and pushing it, not easy to readjust after so many years getting good driving cars tuned like that.
A Ruf YB or X-Bow or any tune using ballast needlessly is compromised. The ballast is a crutch and using ballast the tune is built around the crutch, nothing ideal as ballast is used to cure something that can be dealt with through wheel angle tuning.
If a maxed out PP Tune relies on ballast, it's not maxed as the ballast cripples it. The non ballast tune having a higher PP, less mass & tuned wheel angles is a no compromise set up unrestricted by added weight.
I prefer to tune to keep the natural character of the car being tuned. This is almost more important to me than nailing the fastest lap times compared to others, so long as I'm still fast. I want my cars to feel and drive as realistically as possible..
Driving MCH's X-Bow I was surprised, much faster then I was expecting. I can actually take the time to adjust to a tune and give it a good run before formulating an opinion. No 5 lap BS testing. Multi Track & many many laps to get a real feel of it.
Driving MCH's X-Bow it at first felt like driving an alien spaceship on wheels, totally weird. HOWEVER after about five laps feeling it out and adjusting my driving to the car it was MUCH faster then I was expecting, but wow, feels very odd while driving... It can be driven fast and hard although This is a Video game(ish) feel I do not like at all. Still it's not slow at all, just 110 pounds too heavy compromised with 50kg of ballast not driving at its full potential. "Ballast crippled" I like to call it.. Obviously when you pull the ballast from the car it becomes useless, not worth driving, so it was ballast to the rescue NOT ideal tuning.
My X-Bow not using ballast has a more natural feel, and has more potential not being held down by ballast weight... Also in my hands my camber tuned car is much much faster. I'm able to knock .5 easy off any lap vs running the ballast tuned car.
If No compromised is made tuning the car, then the car can be tuned to PD instructions on all settings while compromised set ups will say something or the other is broken to explain why they have a diff like 11/11/11 or 3/3 3/3 3/3 damps and ARB...
Many cars have been tuned oddly using other settings to fix the things that can be fixed with wheel angles throwing off how the car responds to advanced tuning tweaks makes people bang head confused by weird test result.....
On a compromised tune they try to add camber after the cars been tuned without and are surprised its not working as they thought it should. These cars feel funny to me, but it's been the style pushed for years and many at GTP are accustomed to.
Adding camb to a car with all other settings already dialled in with camb zero is difficult and drivers who have spent many years driving /tuning using camb zero & camber avoiding techniques , it will take adjusting to driving with tuned camb AND get used to using camber for things they used to use other techniques, like adding ballast to calm down an over steering nightmare..
How we'll has camber been tested IF this aspect of camber tuning has not been tested at all AND the testing that has been done is on the logic using front camber is to flatten the outside tire when camber doesn't flatten out the outside front? Or the logic simply raising camb from zero magically adds grip in the corner on the outside tire just being raised from zero on a liner bases, that doesn't even make sense IRL, let alone a sim style game.
I'm not going to give quality tunes so the fact twisters can BS them. I'll let this all get tested by open minded tuners and drivers, when it's more understood and tested by others. X-Bow (no ballast) + full PP no ballast Ruf YB, tweaked GT350 and more will be released. It takes adjusting to camber tuned driving and with some bashing set ups unwilling to give them more than a few laps before trashing this so far is a poor effort to really test camber tuning not worth providing tunes for. Seems they are more intent on forcing the OPINION camber is broken then truly seeing camber tunes work as it would mean they were wrong, can't admit that now can they....
I guess this is going to be either bashed as BS OR even better the thread will get flooded with people posting IRL stuff confusing instead of helping clarify, deny it's real world applicability or somehow try to act like they already knew this but IDK enter excuse here _______ why it's never been tested in ALL the camber testing ETC, as they say they tested camber to death...... Not really huh, test one theory (that makes no sense) using random camber settings, unbalance camber f/r... No surprise the results were as they were. No real understanding of what to expect & how can you from random values. Like throwing a dart blindfolded at a board with random camber values to choose a camber setting to test. What did you really expect? More grip just raising it from Zero? How's that work??? How do you tune that and for what? Understeer? Oversteer? Makes no sense...
Don't like me or my approach? It don't matter, it's not easy going against the force fed GTP consensus... I don't back down, and I'm clever enough to do so..
Ohh the Avatar is default if you don't pic an Avatar but click male in the the gender question during creating my GTP account, but you can call me Jackie if you like
probably some women Tuners out there that could spank you in a few ways Heck PMS dealership with one if my Favourite cars in GT6, sexy Camaro RS. I am French And while coincidental Jack Napier is a Joker alias, Napier is a common French name. I like the coincidence and roll with it. Maybe a joker card Avatar...
The important think to take from all this is;
Camber has not been proven to be Broken in GT6 and the test that have been done thus far have not properly tested camber, in any way other than proving the "camber should start adding grip being raised from zero on a liner path" THEORY to be untrue in GT6...
Now you have a new theory to test, one that I believe is more on point with how camber tuning was intended to be done by the game designer.
I expect a lot of mixed results at first as people will have to adjust to tuning with camber, adjust how they tune other setting & get used to tuned camb driving if they truly are interested in seeing if camber works correctly or not in GT6
I've been improving my ability to take advantage of camber tuning, this dispute I have to thank for getting my technique more refined. Thank You. Reminds me of the CanIbus shout out on LLcoolJ"s come back album years back. Thank you GTP for pushing me to get better and refine my techniques.
The proof is literally dependant on your willingness as a Tuner/Driver to see. So the only one who can really prove it to you(the reader) is yourself...
- 2,095
- Burke, Fairfax,
- GTP_STRIKER
- Xbox SUCKS
I see that some of you just throughout the sidewall flex just because it’s not showing in any photo or it may have not been or believe it hasn’t been modeled in, due to some many different results that people shared. I see a lot of tuning theories BASED on Gran Turismo logic and yet only a few of real logic. And here we go with the comments “You can’t compare the modeling to real live because the modeling is broke.” How do you REALLY know if the modeling is broke? Have you done any tire modeling for a program? Have you given any feedback about tire modeling? Have you tested any of the tire modeling? Maybe it times to take a step back and rethink the logic or maybe not.
The testing I’ve done have had good and fair results with camber pending on the track, though camber is not truly the key, camber along with the toe and suspension set is the total key. I’m finding camber doing what it’s meant for, getting a flatter footprint from the tire for better grip under load. I really don’t care how fast I get down the straight, all I’m worried about getting into a turn as stable as possible so I can carry as much speed through the turn as possible to get out as fastest exit as possible in a stable manner.
I would rather get the car to rotate faster through a turn in a stable manner for a better exit. Camber doesn’t do that for you; it only helps you to get to that point by allowing the best GRIP when you get to that point. I have yet to change the way I tune my cars. I’ve been doing the same way for many years, logic; it has yet to fail me. The best rotating car I have at the moment is the BRZ GT300 race car with medium down force for Silver Stone. And the two areas that helped a great deal to get the car to rotate fast enough for me are CAMBER and TOE. Once I got the car to stay flat in the turns I adjusted the camber and toe some more to get the rotation for my driving style.
Addition:
@Jack Napier is indeed correct about camber, it has yet to be proven to be broke. What about the other areas of the suspension? We're still seeing the same old tuning methods or the new flame of doing what we think works the best. But NO one has yet to show any real advancement,or has yet to share or will not share.
The testing I’ve done have had good and fair results with camber pending on the track, though camber is not truly the key, camber along with the toe and suspension set is the total key. I’m finding camber doing what it’s meant for, getting a flatter footprint from the tire for better grip under load. I really don’t care how fast I get down the straight, all I’m worried about getting into a turn as stable as possible so I can carry as much speed through the turn as possible to get out as fastest exit as possible in a stable manner.
I would rather get the car to rotate faster through a turn in a stable manner for a better exit. Camber doesn’t do that for you; it only helps you to get to that point by allowing the best GRIP when you get to that point. I have yet to change the way I tune my cars. I’ve been doing the same way for many years, logic; it has yet to fail me. The best rotating car I have at the moment is the BRZ GT300 race car with medium down force for Silver Stone. And the two areas that helped a great deal to get the car to rotate fast enough for me are CAMBER and TOE. Once I got the car to stay flat in the turns I adjusted the camber and toe some more to get the rotation for my driving style.
Addition:
@Jack Napier is indeed correct about camber, it has yet to be proven to be broke. What about the other areas of the suspension? We're still seeing the same old tuning methods or the new flame of doing what we think works the best. But NO one has yet to show any real advancement,or has yet to share or will not share.
Last edited:
- 1,460
- England
Details of exactly how much camber and toe, and where it was might help mate.
I agree btw, that just because we don't see it in the displayed graphics, doesn't mean it's not implemented in physics coding.
I have had good results with tiny camber values, but nothing like what I would be running in real life. (see my civic test revisited )
- 1,460
- England
So you are claiming to have a car with excellent rotation, using camber in the setup.
If this is correct, I would like to see where the camber is.
If you have 10.0 on the rear i can see where the rotation is coming from.
I'm not looking for the world's fastest gt86 setup... I'm trying to find out what's going on with camber.
- 2,095
- Burke, Fairfax,
- GTP_STRIKER
- Xbox SUCKS
- 384
- Sao Paulo
- dpinho1975
- 20
- Kelowna BC Canada
- Raddad1591
ok this is rant...to those in charge..i'm sorry and If u delete this or boot me I fully understand..but to be honest I no longer care. I will at least attempt to be somewhat humorus/entertaining(*note this jack(ass) it comes up later).
first I don't disagree at all with somethings you say. In my real life racing experience..(oh no another fake racer
.. ex in my case...if you bother to read this hami didn't know that when I started following you..guessin I smelled it on ya)...camber/caster was never a single adjustment unless it was very minor(racing not testing). nor were many other adjustments.
Why I'm pissed.. came this thread because there IS something wrong here..so research required.. as I read your posts on this matter could not help but be insulted by you on 2 levels...
1st. as an ex-adult instructor/trainer...when I ran across the words "learn" and "teach" you made me cringe..couple of tips.
-humor is a good icebreaker..helps them to relax.
-demanding that they learn from you just does not work(are you kidding me now???)
-"visual aids"-its a modern world
-failure to produce tangible documentation shows a lack of preparedness..
-and of course the old.. more flys to sugar than to ****..
2nd as an ex-fake racer...naw 🤬 it ive had enough...Ill just say that if you brought your highhanded snotnose attitude into our little arena the only argument would have been who picks up the case of beer for the first guy to plant your ignorant ass into a wall or whatever....
first I don't disagree at all with somethings you say. In my real life racing experience..(oh no another fake racer
.. ex in my case...if you bother to read this hami didn't know that when I started following you..guessin I smelled it on ya)...camber/caster was never a single adjustment unless it was very minor(racing not testing). nor were many other adjustments.Why I'm pissed.. came this thread because there IS something wrong here..so research required.. as I read your posts on this matter could not help but be insulted by you on 2 levels...
1st. as an ex-adult instructor/trainer...when I ran across the words "learn" and "teach" you made me cringe..couple of tips.
-humor is a good icebreaker..helps them to relax.
-demanding that they learn from you just does not work(are you kidding me now???)
-"visual aids"-its a modern world
-failure to produce tangible documentation shows a lack of preparedness..
-and of course the old.. more flys to sugar than to ****..
2nd as an ex-fake racer...naw 🤬 it ive had enough...Ill just say that if you brought your highhanded snotnose attitude into our little arena the only argument would have been who picks up the case of beer for the first guy to plant your ignorant ass into a wall or whatever....
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I see it like this..
Getting the front dialled in is going to go hand in hand with dialling in the rear..
When tuning the front, you can only be as aggressive on the inside tire as the outside tire will allow.
However
You can only be as aggressive on the front as the rear end will allow.
Camber & Toe work as a team
Using our toe to manipulate turn in and exit, transition to and from riding our camber angles through the corner in the front, in the rear to help containment of rotation.
Finding the sweet spot in the front for a corner is easiest be it to help an over steering nightmare, or give a pig some turn, if you look for it starting at the neg to pos transition point. We tweak according to track as with most tweaks.
It seems the effect is best if you start at the transition point like Zero... From our "Dynamic" Zero being the neg to pos transition point. From that point raise the camber setting to ride neg camb in the corner or lower it to ride pos camb through the corner..
I'll post a thread giving techniques to use this better, as others test out what I've exposed (sorry to those who would of preferred this kept secrete for competitive edge) I think Ive provided something worth at least testing out...
Demo car
It's important to note, that adding the huge 6.0 neg camb in the front of the YB made a huge impact to performance... Not often such a big change for one adjustment.
To cure that oversteer with ballast compromises in the rest of the set up are made. Jacking the front brake bias, accommodating the added weight with SR and damps, even tweaked ARB to accommodate the extra weight, when this unnecessary.
Compromises are used to get around using tuned wheel angles. People over many years have become accustomed to this tuning style and pushing it, not easy to readjust after so many years getting good driving cars tuned like that.
A Ruf YB or X-Bow or any tune using ballast needlessly is compromised. The ballast is a crutch and using ballast the tune is built around the crutch, nothing ideal as ballast is used to cure something that can be dealt with through wheel angle tuning.
If a maxed out PP Tune relies on ballast, it's not maxed as the ballast cripples it. The non ballast tune having a higher PP, less mass & tuned wheel angles is a no compromise set up unrestricted by added weight.
I prefer to tune to keep the natural character of the car being tuned. This is almost more important to me than nailing the fastest lap times compared to others, so long as I'm still fast. I want my cars to feel and drive as realistically as possible..
Driving MCH's X-Bow I was surprised, much faster then I was expecting. I can actually take the time to adjust to a tune and give it a good run before formulating an opinion. No 5 lap BS testing. Multi Track & many many laps to get a real feel of it.
Driving MCH's X-Bow it at first felt like driving an alien spaceship on wheels, totally weird. HOWEVER after about five laps feeling it out and adjusting my driving to the car it was MUCH faster then I was expecting, but wow, feels very odd while driving... It can be driven fast and hard although This is a Video game(ish) feel I do not like at all. Still it's not slow at all, just 110 pounds too heavy compromised with 50kg of ballast not driving at its full potential. "Ballast crippled" I like to call it.. Obviously when you pull the ballast from the car it becomes useless, not worth driving, so it was ballast to the rescue NOT ideal tuning.
My X-Bow not using ballast has a more natural feel, and has more potential not being held down by ballast weight... Also in my hands my camber tuned car is much much faster. I'm able to knock .5 easy off any lap vs running the ballast tuned car.
If No compromised is made tuning the car, then the car can be tuned to PD instructions on all settings while compromised set ups will say something or the other is broken to explain why they have a diff like 11/11/11 or 3/3 3/3 3/3 damps and ARB...
Many cars have been tuned oddly using other settings to fix the things that can be fixed with wheel angles throwing off how the car responds to advanced tuning tweaks makes people bang head confused by weird test result.....
On a compromised tune they try to add camber after the cars been tuned without and are surprised its not working as they thought it should. These cars feel funny to me, but it's been the style pushed for years and many at GTP are accustomed to.
Adding camb to a car with all other settings already dialled in with camb zero is difficult and drivers who have spent many years driving /tuning using camb zero & camber avoiding techniques , it will take adjusting to driving with tuned camb AND get used to using camber for things they used to use other techniques, like adding ballast to calm down an over steering nightmare..
How we'll has camber been tested IF this aspect of camber tuning has not been tested at all AND the testing that has been done is on the logic using front camber is to flatten the outside tire when camber doesn't flatten out the outside front? Or the logic simply raising camb from zero magically adds grip in the corner on the outside tire just being raised from zero on a liner bases, that doesn't even make sense IRL, let alone a sim style game.
I'm not going to give quality tunes so the fact twisters can BS them. I'll let this all get tested by open minded tuners and drivers, when it's more understood and tested by others. X-Bow (no ballast) + full PP no ballast Ruf YB, tweaked GT350 and more will be released. It takes adjusting to camber tuned driving and with some bashing set ups unwilling to give them more than a few laps before trashing this so far is a poor effort to really test camber tuning not worth providing tunes for. Seems they are more intent on forcing the OPINION camber is broken then truly seeing camber tunes work as it would mean they were wrong, can't admit that now can they....
I guess this is going to be either bashed as BS OR even better the thread will get flooded with people posting IRL stuff confusing instead of helping clarify, deny it's real world applicability or somehow try to act like they already knew this but IDK enter excuse here _______ why it's never been tested in ALL the camber testing ETC, as they say they tested camber to death...... Not really huh, test one theory (that makes no sense) using random camber settings, unbalance camber f/r... No surprise the results were as they were. No real understanding of what to expect & how can you from random values. Like throwing a dart blindfolded at a board with random camber values to choose a camber setting to test. What did you really expect? More grip just raising it from Zero? How's that work??? How do you tune that and for what? Understeer? Oversteer? Makes no sense...
Don't like me or my approach? It don't matter, it's not easy going against the force fed GTP consensus... I don't back down, and I'm clever enough to do so..
Ohh the Avatar is default if you don't pic an Avatar but click male in the the gender question during creating my GTP account, but you can call me Jackie if you like
I am French And while coincidental Jack Napier is a Joker alias, Napier is a common French name. I like the coincidence and roll with it. Maybe a joker card Avatar...
The important think to take from all this is;
Camber has not been proven to be Broken in GT6 and the test that have been done thus far have not properly tested camber, in any way other than proving the "camber should start adding grip being raised from zero on a liner path" THEORY to be untrue in GT6...
Now you have a new theory to test, one that I believe is more on point with how camber tuning was intended to be done by the game designer.
I expect a lot of mixed results at first as people will have to adjust to tuning with camber, adjust how they tune other setting & get used to tuned camb driving if they truly are interested in seeing if camber works correctly or not in GT6
I've been improving my ability to take advantage of camber tuning, this dispute I have to thank for getting my technique more refined. Thank You. Reminds me of the CanIbus shout out on LLcoolJ"s come back album years back. Thank you GTP for pushing me to get better and refine my techniques.
The proof is literally dependant on your willingness as a Tuner/Driver to see. So the only one who can really prove it to you(the reader) is yourself...
Translation: I have no tune or video to post.
Translation: I believe Jack is right and I also have no video or tune to post.
- 2,095
- Burke, Fairfax,
- GTP_STRIKER
- Xbox SUCKS
I've already shared my camber setting @Johnnypenso, which all was asked for, and I've already stated I will not share my set for the BRZ. I would rather spend the money on something useful to use rather than a HDMI caption card to record my GT6 video's to share.
Addition:
If we still had the Data and the KW Rig I would be more than happy to rebuild a system to handle video record while streaming for GT6. Though at the moment we don't have these options.
Addition:
If we still had the Data and the KW Rig I would be more than happy to rebuild a system to handle video record while streaming for GT6. Though at the moment we don't have these options.
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- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
You don't have a mobile phone with a camera, or a video camera? You don't have a USB stick you could put the replay file on to and add as an attachment to one of your posts here? That way you could keep your setup secret and everyone gets to see evidence (though why I don't understand, I'm always happy to share my setup if people ask, I want to be quick because of skill, not tuning)
- 2,095
- Burke, Fairfax,
- GTP_STRIKER
- Xbox SUCKS
You got my attention @Lewis_Hamiltion, this is what I'll do after I'm studying, I'll run three session with different camber settings on the total setting with times on hard tires only. One other thing, I don't add parts for power nor do I use the power limiter.
- 672
- Fort Worth, TX
- imtolegittoquit
jack if you will post the tune for your yellowbird or message me if you dont want it public, I will be happy to test it. I told you to put up or shut up. Now that you have put up, I am willing to run it subjectively.
I will do laps with it as is
then do laps with the camber at zero front and rear
then try to tune it myself to see if I can make a faster setup.
if i do end up with a faster car, I will provide you the setup so that you can do the same tests
During these laps I will make notes with fastest and average(for consistency,ease of driving) lap times for each test.
Afterwords I will post my findings in this thread within 24hrs.
I will do laps with it as is
then do laps with the camber at zero front and rear
then try to tune it myself to see if I can make a faster setup.
if i do end up with a faster car, I will provide you the setup so that you can do the same tests
During these laps I will make notes with fastest and average(for consistency,ease of driving) lap times for each test.
Afterwords I will post my findings in this thread within 24hrs.
- 20
- Kelowna BC Canada
- Raddad1591
johnny.. my fellow canuck..I see ur mad too..try what I did..6 beers and a big fat one.. I feel much better now(tryin to be funny here)
this is a very dead horse as jack got the boot I think(and believe that's what he wanted)
though not hard to comeback as someone else I'm guessin...Zuel???(kidding sorry Zuel)
in game /real life another dead horse(the next time your on a track an ya smack da wall at 150 or better let me know how that effects ur setup or what it cost to fix.. oh 0 an0..hmm) click on button.. slide a bar an ya know what it takes to build a race car(sorry no insult intended..i lied about feelin better..grr)
camber issue(beat that thing boy beat that thing)like others I do 0/0..it feels better
PD you aholes need to get off ur ass an help out one way or another (I've been wrong before didn't kill me)
oh thanks for the likes guys that did made me fell better.
Last.. if you wish to offer an opinion on my opinion..here's what I think of opinions
they are just like aholes.. everybody has a least one..an its the next guys that stinks...
this is a very dead horse as jack got the boot I think(and believe that's what he wanted)
though not hard to comeback as someone else I'm guessin...Zuel???(kidding sorry Zuel)
in game /real life another dead horse(the next time your on a track an ya smack da wall at 150 or better let me know how that effects ur setup or what it cost to fix.. oh 0 an0..hmm) click on button.. slide a bar an ya know what it takes to build a race car(sorry no insult intended..i lied about feelin better..grr)
camber issue(beat that thing boy beat that thing)like others I do 0/0..it feels better
PD you aholes need to get off ur ass an help out one way or another (I've been wrong before didn't kill me)
oh thanks for the likes guys that did made me fell better.
Last.. if you wish to offer an opinion on my opinion..here's what I think of opinions
they are just like aholes.. everybody has a least one..an its the next guys that stinks...
- 3,781
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
I don't understand this at all. There is no time posted. Ok, so you drove a 600pp yellowbird around. No one said the car wouldn't drive. Post a lap time, take your camber off, then post that lap.
- 20
- Kelowna BC Canada
- Raddad1591
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
There is a video showing how I drive.....
Seems to drive just fine lol no ballast no assist, no driving line...... 600PP RH 5lap race...
You put up a video of your 600pp Ruf YB in the same race, or show us you driving assist off as I have no driving line, then we can compare times
Joker laughs
Gee Jack I don't know if I'm skilled enough to take a Yellowbird out on racing hards.
See Jack, this is why we ask for replays because of this:Burned...
I think you lost the last shred of credibility you might have had..I have a secret tune for the Yellowbird so don't tell anyone, but you can try it. Add parts to get to 600PP. Add racing mediums...drive. Let me know how it turns out...
PS. Works for every car..
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- 110
- Australia
Not only that, as far as I could tell (speaking of the first video), all of his gains were made through straight line speed and braking (i.e. overpowered car compared to the competition, and rubbish AI). Where he had a car in front going through a corner, it seemed more often than not he lost ground on the AI by the corner exit, only to then make it up with ridiculous straight line speed relative to the AI. Generally speaking, it seemed he could have done with more corner grip.
Of course the video doesn't actually tell us anything at all about how well the car was set up.
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