Camber

[Johnnypenso]

I think there may be much driver preferance slash what your used to because I get low 7:20's also under 7:25 easy.

The only way you will see this is like this. First, take a car and set camber to 0.0/0.0 and tune it with springs, dampers, LSD, ballast whatever you like, until it rotates the way you like and whatever else you want. Give it an honest effort at the track. Run a bunch of laps, record them, figure out best lap, average etc.

Second, do the same thing with a cambered car. Repeat the process, tune with camber...etc.

Post your results. Trying other people's tunes, comparing lap times to other people etc., is meaningless. Has to be identical cars you tune the way you like, but the 0.0/0.0 car first.

Others have done the same thing over and over with consistent results. If you are unwilling to do this, your opinion on the matter will be discounted accordingly. Just sayin'...

 

[Jbaffoh]

I think there may be much driver preferance slash what your used to because I get low 7:20's also under 7:25 easy.

This sounds suspiciously familiar. Jack's sock puppets reappear like whack-a-moles every time he's banned, and now we have a new one who never made a post before today. Hmmm....

 

[Johnnypenso]

This sounds suspiciously familiar. Jack's sock puppets reappear like whack-a-moles every time he's banned, and now we have a new one who never made a post before today. Hmmm....

Haha..I've never seen his name before but I didn't realize he hadn't posted until today. Hey Jack ole' buddy, how's it going? Long time no see

 

[PsuPepperoni]

We should have the option to put 90 degrees of positive camber on the Delorean

 

[REXSPEC]

I like going fast but its a video game. Ive not moved from my couch, going faster than the next guy in a video game is not even interesting to me. I play GT to get a real(ish) driving experience and have fun driving cars tuned like I would tune the real thing. Its a video game so tuning cars with unreal setting to go F-Zero fast is not a priority for me.


I also look at a 7:22 lap time and think it should be much faster then that if my camber was slowing me down. After 7 min on the track we are still side by side.

I came in to see if anybody had a faster way to balance the straight line with cornering ability, but if real tuning techniques applied to the game is not your thing thats cool with me. Its a game so yeah unreal stuff will work and go fast, but 7:22 is not going to cut it here to show bad tuning. Need to get much faster then that to say my S206 NBR right beside you is slower.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Hello Jack.

 

[REXSPEC]

The only way you will see this is like this. First, take a car and set camber to 0.0/0.0 and tune it with springs, dampers, LSD, ballast whatever you like, until it rotates the way you like and whatever else you want. Give it an honest effort at the track. Run a bunch of laps, record them, figure out best lap, average etc.

Second, do the same thing with a cambered car. Repeat the process, tune with camber...etc.

Post your results. Trying other people's tunes, comparing lap times to other people etc., is meaningless. Has to be identical cars you tune the way you like, but the 0.0/0.0 car first.

Others have done the same thing over and over with consistent results. If you are unwilling to do this, your opinion on the matter will be discounted accordingly. Just sayin'...

I think that is absolutly the most video game style of tuning I have ever heard and in no way whatsoever is that how cars are tuned in the real world, since emulating the real world in the game is my goal, that video game approach to tuning is not interesting at all.

Id rather just play a different game if all GT was about was "going fast" with unrealistic set ups. I keep pace with that 7:22 so I dont even see the advantage of that video game style of tuning.

 

[eclipsee]

Never thought I would say this so soon but, camber works in GT6, adding grip.

I think the problem is if we don't have the proper suspension settings, simply we lose grip.

I got my best time in the current LCC Rocket seasonal TT, using 0.5 as rear camber, clearly gaining grip and more stability than using 0.0, specially at Degner 1, 2, Spoon and 130R.

I know some of you can check and access to my car settings in the file of my replay, feel free to post them here, I can't post them until tomorrow afternoon.

If you change the rear camber to 0.0 you'll have more oversteer, just check it out.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I will if you Try this car at Nurburgring

S206 NBR
REXSPEC-l NBR
.

Why would I use 3.5/2.5 on any car without tuning the camber in and then dialing in the sweet spot balance between cornering and straight line? Typical for what? I don't throw darts at settings, that never works. Tuning blindfolded wont tell me anything except guessing at settings is not ideal.

Did all the mechanical upgrades you listed.

Made no adjustments to the stock values for the adjustable suspension and left the stock differentials in place.

Ran a 7:21.445

Used your settings.

Ran a 7:26.386

With your setup, the car exhibited terminal understeer. It was an absolute pig in any tight corner and had piss-poor rotation on corner entry. Mid-corner it was skating and on exit it ploughed towards the Armco like it was the car's job to drift wide. Corners took MUCH more steering lock compared to no tuning at all.

Took the camber out of your settings and left everything else the same.

Ran a 7:19.531

With the camber at 0/0, your own setup was nearly 7 seconds faster. The understeer was gone, the car rotated well on corner entry, and it overall was much better behaved. Camber does NOT make the car handle better in GT6.

This pretty much ices it. GT6 is not properly simulating camber settings. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

 

[Jbaffoh]

I think that is absolutly the most video game style of tuning I have ever heard and in no way whatsoever is that how cars are tuned in the real world, since emulating the real world in the game is my goal, that video game approach to tuning is not interesting at all.

Id rather just play a different game if all GT was about was "going fast" with unrealistic set ups. I keep pace with that 7:22 so I dont even see the advantage of that video game style of tuning.

Let's assume GT6 is an imperfect model of real world physics and race tuning. Let's further assume that camber is currently one of the more imperfect models in the game. Let's also assume that real-world suspension (and camber) settings fail to produce real-world performance in the game. However, let's also assume settings that would be absurd in the real world are capable of approximating real-world car handling and performance in the game.

Here's the question: Would you rather slavishly apply real-world settings and create a crappy car? Or use settings that would be silly in real life, yet faithfully reproduce a real car's performance?

 

[REXSPEC]

Well then that means your driving is well suited to no camber, but 3 seconds over a 7 and a half minute lap doesn't show anything at all except you are more used to driving without camber.

At the end of the day why do you care what I use or if MY set ups use camber? I run faster laps with camber and I enjoy myself.

I have a car, and have had many over the years.

Loser? What have I lost? Are you saying Im a loser because I disagree with you or enjoy a video game in a different way? Shows no spine hiding behind a keyboard name calling.

I can certainly see how using unrealistic tuning styles exploiting the inadequacies of the physics engine, but I prefer to keep it real Games are just games and being faster then the next guy in a game means very little. The problem I have is I can't afford all the cars I want nor do I have the months it takes to tune many cars right.

YES I play GT to get as real of an experience as I can out of the game. If you play to be faster then everybody How is that going?? Are you the fastest driver in GT? NO, oh well go play NFS. You MUST be the real looser, get a life this is just a video game.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Well then that means your driving is well suited to no camber, but 3 seconds over a 7 and a half minute lap doesn't show anything at all except you are more used to driving without camber.

Where are you getting 3 seconds from? The difference in times between your tune with camber and your tune without camber is nearly 7 seconds. (6.855 seconds, to be exact.) That's well above my lap-to-lap variance. It has nothing to do with being "more used to driving without camber" and everything to do with not liking cars that are understeering pigs with the same unwillingness to change direction as a supertanker.

At the end of the day why do you care what I use or if MY set ups use camber? I run faster laps with camber and I enjoy myself.

I don't care what settings you run. But when your "tune" is 4.914 seconds/lap slower than no suspension adjustments at all, and feels absolutely nothing like a well-sorted car in real-life, you'll forgive me for thinking that, perhaps, there is a flaw in your setup somewhere. As before, this time difference is greater than my lap-to-lap variation.

I can certainly see how using unrealistic tuning styles exploiting the inadequacies of the physics engine, but I prefer to keep it real

Except that you're not "keeping it real." Real-world settings that are artificially hobbled by an inadequate physics engine are no less "fake" and no less "exploiting the inadequacies of the physics engine." They're simply inaccurate in a way that slows cars down. If those settings don't create the characteristics that they would in the real world, then, no matter what you may tell yourself, they are absolutely not letting you "get as real of an experience as [you] can out of the game."

The "correct" settings, improperly modeled, give you an experience that is every bit as fake as the incorrect settings.

ADDENDUM: I just spent a bunch of time with your tune trying to get the best I could out of it. The lap times posted above were "hop in and drive" times. They were the first lap out with each setup. My comments above about variance were in regard to the variance I see once I'm familiar with a car's setup.

After several laps of familiarization with your setup I was able to pull the time down to a 7:22.812.

However, immediately after that, running the same setup except with 0/0 camber, I posted a 7:15.264.

The delta between lap times grew from 6.855 seconds to 7.548 seconds as I became more familiar with the car.

Camber in GT6 is definitely not doing what it would do in the real world.

 

[Johnnypenso]

At the end of the day why do you care what I use or if MY set ups use camber? I run faster laps with camber and I enjoy myself.
I can certainly see how using unrealistic tuning styles exploiting the inadequacies of the physics engine, but I prefer to keep it real Games are just games and being faster then the next guy in a game means very little.

If you prefer to keep it real Jack and being faster in a game means very little, then why did you try so hard to prove camber settings actually worked and were faster than no camber? Why are you here trying to prove anything if it means so little?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Never thought I would say this so soon but, camber works in GT6, adding grip.

I think the problem is if we don't have the proper suspension settings, simply we lose grip.

I got my best time in the current LCC Rocket seasonal TT, using 0.5 as rear camber, clearly gaining grip and more stability than using 0.0, specially at Degner 1, 2, Spoon and 130R.

I know some of you can check and access to my car settings in the file of my replay, feel free to post them here, I can't post them until tomorrow afternoon.

If you change the rear camber to 0.0 you'll have more oversteer, just check it out.

I tested stock LCC, except for full custom suspension ( default values ) at Street of Willow on comfort medium. Zero camber all around, SRF on and off, zero front/0.5 rear, SRF on and off.

With SRF OFF, zero camber has more grip and easier to hold speed around tight low speed and medium speed turns, while 0.5 rear camber gives less grip ( prone to oversteer )
With SRF ON, zero camber has the rear more reactive ( feels like SRF kick in in the middle of the corner when pushed too hard ) than with 0.5 rear where SRF seems to react smoother ( more likely it adds grip much earlier as soon you turn the front wheel ) - more stable feeling.

I think it's also more to do with the unique grip balance of the chassis, and I am guessing you have SRF enabled. With SRF on, having rear camber, while the front at zero will induce oversteer much earlier and trigger the SRF earlier as it detects the lack of grip, then it adds grip to the rear tires almost all the time = increased stability. IMO, having rear camber served the purpose of taking advantage of SRF have to offer.

Maybe I'll try 0.5 camber at the front with SRF ON 💡

Now I think SRF in GT6 adds higher overall grip level on the current tire + adds small amount of grip when there's a loss of traction/slip on each tire.

Downloaded top 3 replay now

 

[eclipsee]

I am guessing you have SRF enabled.

Well, it's not needed to be Sherlock to realize that, you can check this out in the replay file of the leaderboard too.

With SRF on, having rear camber, while the front at zero will induce oversteer much earlier and trigger the SRF earlier as it detects the lack of grip, then it adds grip to the rear tires almost all the time = increased stability. IMO, having rear camber served the purpose of taking advantage of SRF have to offer.

This makes no sense to me, if you're right, the way to go is always with a bit of camber when using SRF, as that small lack of grip induced by the camber would kick in the SRF adding more grip.

What I've experienced so far (with or without SRF) was that when adding any small amount of camber I lost grip, until now with this seasonal combo and these car settings, maybe camber works in some cars and not in others, who knows.

Here are my car settings for the LCC Rocket @ Suzuka seasonal TT, for those who don't care about the use of SRF and ABS1:

Oil change required, every 200 kms you'll need to change the oil.

To match the gear ratios, first set your final gear to 6200, later max speed to 180 km/h, later set the gears and final gear as shown in the pic.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Well, it's not needed to be Sherlock to realize that, you can check this out in the replay file of the leaderboard too.


This makes no sense to me, if you're right, the way to go is always with a bit of camber when using SRF, as that small lack of grip induced by the camber would kick in the SRF adding more grip.

What I've experienced so far (with or without SRF) was that when adding any small amount of camber I lost grip, until now with this seasonal combo and these car settings, maybe camber works in some cars and not in others, who knows.

Here are my car settings for the LCC Rocket @ Suzuka seasonal TT, for those who don't care about the use of SRF and ABS1:

Oil change required, every 200 kms you'll need to change the oil.

To match the gear ratios, first set your final gear to 6200, later max speed to 180 km/h, later set the gears and final gear as shown in the pic.

View attachment 118585 View attachment 118586 View attachment 118587 View attachment 118588

As I said, it's rather unique case with the chassis of the car. Not all cars benefit from some camber when SRF used. Try the same setup of yours, but disable SRF, you will have very tail happy car that's so loose, it will be hard to drive at Suzuka, especially without wheel. Compare it with zero camber all around, the rear will have a bit more grip and less tail happy when pushed hard.

Have you tried some front camber with the car ? Maybe it will give good result with low value like 0.2 or 0.3

Another good experiment is to install body rigidity improvement and increase rear camber a bit to balance the car, with SRF, this might enhance stability and grip mid corner, or maybe not
I was about to post your setup , but you already did Here is little stuff that's hidden from tuning page - The reverse gear ratio for the car is 3.716

 

[eclipsee]

Have you tried some front camber with the car ? Maybe it will give good result with low value like 0.2 or 0.3

Yep, I did, it was adding grip at the front and inducing oversteer, the car has already enough oversteer, that's why I kept it to 0.0

Another good experiment is to install body rigidity improvement and increase rear camber a bit to balance the car, with SRF, this might enhance stability and grip mid corner, or maybe not

I tried too, too much stable for my taste , nah, it was inducing understeer to my car settings, not good.

Here is little stuff that's hidden from tuning page - The reverse gear ratio for the car is 3.716

Irrelevant but interesting.

 

[g2010ag]

Well, it's not needed to be Sherlock to realize that, you can check this out in the replay file of the leaderboard too.


This makes no sense to me, if you're right, the way to go is always with a bit of camber when using SRF, as that small lack of grip induced by the camber would kick in the SRF adding more grip.

What I've experienced so far (with or without SRF) was that when adding any small amount of camber I lost grip, until now with this seasonal combo and these car settings, maybe camber works in some cars and not in others, who knows.

Here are my car settings for the LCC Rocket @ Suzuka seasonal TT, for those who don't care about the use of SRF and ABS1:

Oil change required, every 200 kms you'll need to change the oil.

To match the gear ratios, first set your final gear to 6200, later max speed to 180 km/h, later set the gears and final gear as shown in the pic.

View attachment 118585 View attachment 118586 View attachment 118587 View attachment 118588

Thank you for posting your settings. By setting the Exhaust manifold to Isometric and dropping the intake to standard I could get 590PP with 324hp with limiter at 98.6%.

 

[rams1de]

Thank you for posting your settings. By setting the Exhaust manifold to Isometric and dropping the intake to standard I could get 590PP with 324hp with limiter at 98.6%.

In Europe 321bhp equates to a little over 325hp

 

[Voodoovaj]

SO, to toss some more dry wood on to this bonfire, there is one element that hasn't been covered. (This is for the proponents of camber)

In reality, various cars have various suspension geometry. That means the arc of travel of the hub when a car rolls is different (from car to car). Camber is a great way to get grip when cornering forces would otherwise cause the tire to transition from the tread to the sidewall. Since the sidewall has a different rubber compound in most cases, using the sidewall for grip is bad.

In this game, all car suspensions same follow the arc when under load (at least turning) and I don't believe that transition ever occurs unless you hop a curb or something. Come to think of it, when the suspension compresses from bumps, it sure looks like a linear compression to me. It appears from everything I have seen that the contact stays on the asphalt (at least visually). So, if camber works physically as it does visually, it can only decrease the contact patch. It can never maintain it.

But I hold to my opinion that there is something more to it that we can't see because it doesn't feel like a simple reduction in grip.

 

[Dalone]

Been away from the game for a few days and started at 2:04.9 with Cargo's gears and Eclipsee's tune above.
In any case shaved 8 tenths off my time to 2:04.1 and know there is plenty to make up.
Can't say whether it was the tune or the break or what helped as I needed to start with my old tune to do that.
Still, 8 tenths is 8 tenths.

And Cargo, forget the sorry souls who pm you, if they had the courage of their convictions they would post openly for all to see. You put up a good tune which many are using, stick with it mate, 99.9% here are behind you.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Been away from the game for a few days and started at 2:04.9 with Cargo's gears and Eclipsee's tune above.
In any case shaved 8 tenths off my time to 2:04.1 and know there is plenty to make up.
Can't say whether it was the tune or the break or what helped as I needed to start with my old tune to do that.
Still, 8 tenths is 8 tenths.

And Cargo, forget the sorry souls who pm you, if they had the courage of their convictions they would post openly for all to see. You put up a good tune which many are using, stick with it mate, 99.9% here are behind you.

Wrong thread dude

 

[Dalone]

Wrong thread dude

Too true, posted again in the correct one. Thanks.

 

[Stotty]

Yep, I did, it was adding grip at the front and inducing oversteer, the car has already enough oversteer, that's why I kept it to 0.0

Wouldn't it make more sense to take the extra grip front camber gives you and then reduce the rear ballast to cure the resulting oversteer?

Logically, this should give you more grip overall.

 

[FussyFez]

Wouldn't it make more sense to take the extra grip front camber gives you and then reduce the rear ballast to cure the resulting oversteer?

Logically, this should give you more grip overall.

How dare you use the "L" word regarding GT6!

 

[Stotty]

How dare you use the "L" word regarding GT6!

How could I make such an elementary mistake!

 

[Vagabond]

How could I make such an elementary mistake!

We could make this a multiple choice question.

 

[Zuel]

The letters to KW Suspension and Yokohama have been drawn up, I'm waiting until a later day in the week to send them out due too I must send the letters to Yokohama Tires by overnight to California and two day express to Japan. I looking forward to a well response to the matter.

 

[eclipsee]

Wouldn't it make more sense to take the extra grip front camber gives you and then reduce the rear ballast to cure the resulting oversteer?

Logically, this should give you more grip overall.

When GT car settings made any sense?

What you say makes sense, but this car in game has more grip when you exit the curve with full ballast and as much power as possible, top speed is higher too.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Honestly, I think the camber flaw comes - at least partially - from no flex in the tyres. I tried with zero camber at route X, but the steep bankings could be taken some 50 kph faster with 0,5 camber. More than that was slower again, although not as slow as zero. The only thing I can think of (aside a crappy implementation of centrifugal forces) that provides this inconcistancy - seeing as zero camber is the way to go in flatter corners - is no flex.