- 633
- Der Drachen
- hognhominy
Camber
- Thread starter esoxhntr
- 894 comments
- 54,424 views
- Status
- 1,460
- England
@hognhominy
Ive just had another little play with inconclusive results.
My S13 wasn't the best test vehicle due to the fact it is always a work in progress.
I bought a brand new standard 320i touring car. 250bhp is nice and safe so you can really push to the limit and not worry too much about power oversteer.
Stock it has 1.0 front and 0.5 rear.
I lapped brands indy consistently high 49s... Added 1.0 front and rear. Now 2.0 and 1.5.
Lapped again consistently at 49s...
Dropped it to 0.0 all round, 49s again.
Currently confused. No real change in handling?
Most likely explanation is my lack of experience with the car and my short test session.
Will look into this extensively tonight with different vehicles and drive train layouts
ETA I'm on a dfgt abs 0 all aids off.
Ive just had another little play with inconclusive results.
My S13 wasn't the best test vehicle due to the fact it is always a work in progress.
I bought a brand new standard 320i touring car. 250bhp is nice and safe so you can really push to the limit and not worry too much about power oversteer.
Stock it has 1.0 front and 0.5 rear.
I lapped brands indy consistently high 49s... Added 1.0 front and rear. Now 2.0 and 1.5.
Lapped again consistently at 49s...
Dropped it to 0.0 all round, 49s again.
Currently confused. No real change in handling?
Most likely explanation is my lack of experience with the car and my short test session.
Will look into this extensively tonight with different vehicles and drive train layouts
ETA I'm on a dfgt abs 0 all aids off.
- 633
- Der Drachen
- hognhominy
good to know, I will keep abreast of the relevant data and look to find a consensus.
Thanks!
Thanks!
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Really, I think we've known about it since the first week of January when PD said that the RB challenge would come in the update at the end of January?
Only pulling your leg... nice work, hopefully the reports of fixes in 1.04 are correct. From the testing you've already done you should be in a good position to tell!
Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
Caster applies neg camber on the outside and pos camber on the inside.
If you and others think they got it wrong, THEY & YOU dont understand the suspention correctly. You need to do more practical less theory half understood crap preaching like you really know what you flabbing on about missleading people...
Camber is used to combat the pos camber from caster on the inside wheel, otherwise you would get over 6 degrees pos camber on the inside wheel at full steering lock.
The more camber you apply it will reduce the camber effect from caster.
So you start wit neg camber going straight and then as you increase steering input you transition from neg to pos, the more camber you apply moves that transition further down the streering angle.
With 0 camber the inside wheel starts getting pos camber right away, not ideal.
The key is the tighter the majority of corners on the track the further back you want the transition point so higher camber, the faster the track you want the transition much closer to no steering input so you lower it.
Because most rear wheel drive cars in game that ive checked have 6 degrees caster then at halfway steering you have about 3 degrees pos camber when you want close to 1 degrees depending on how tight the sus is to account for lean, a 2 degees amount is the general good place to start because that leaves you with that 1 degree you want and why it misteriously seems to help cars lmfao you have to tune it FROM there not 0 lmfao
You tune it from there depending on the track and how tight tge corners are
Keep in mund you make it better fir slow corners its nit as good on fast and vise versa...
But you guys keep focussing on the outside wheel that gets neg camber from caster already lol
If you and others think they got it wrong, THEY & YOU dont understand the suspention correctly. You need to do more practical less theory half understood crap preaching like you really know what you flabbing on about missleading people...
Camber is used to combat the pos camber from caster on the inside wheel, otherwise you would get over 6 degrees pos camber on the inside wheel at full steering lock.
The more camber you apply it will reduce the camber effect from caster.
So you start wit neg camber going straight and then as you increase steering input you transition from neg to pos, the more camber you apply moves that transition further down the streering angle.
With 0 camber the inside wheel starts getting pos camber right away, not ideal.
The key is the tighter the majority of corners on the track the further back you want the transition point so higher camber, the faster the track you want the transition much closer to no steering input so you lower it.
Because most rear wheel drive cars in game that ive checked have 6 degrees caster then at halfway steering you have about 3 degrees pos camber when you want close to 1 degrees depending on how tight the sus is to account for lean, a 2 degees amount is the general good place to start because that leaves you with that 1 degree you want and why it misteriously seems to help cars lmfao you have to tune it FROM there not 0 lmfao
You tune it from there depending on the track and how tight tge corners are
Keep in mund you make it better fir slow corners its nit as good on fast and vise versa...
But you guys keep focussing on the outside wheel that gets neg camber from caster already lol
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Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
What you want is the inside wheel to grab and pull you around the corner as much as the weight is pushing the the outside wheel in its track. Here you manipulate what side (inside or outside) gets more grab, there are a few trick to getting it right as when u ask more of your inside tire it can stress out or stress out the outside rear (like the YB) or even ask too little can stress out the outside front as u start asking it to do too much.. Ballance is key as with most stuff tuning.
Ohh and your toe plays a role in this too throwing its big nail into things lol
Ohh and your toe plays a role in this too throwing its big nail into things lol
- 276
What's happening with the inside wheels is pretty irrelevant. Due to weight transfer most of the work is done by the outside tires, so yes, those are indeed what you need to focus on.
For a tire to work you need to have an as uniform pressure distribution in the contact patch as possible. Therefore you need to counter mostly the body roll and also a certain amount of canting of the tire belt. Some of this is achieved by the camber curve of the suspension, the rest needs to be done with static camber offset (which is what we'd like to be able to set here). At the steering angles we're talking about here, caster plays only a small role (and actually helps the inside wheel).
BTW, camber still doesn't work
For a tire to work you need to have an as uniform pressure distribution in the contact patch as possible. Therefore you need to counter mostly the body roll and also a certain amount of canting of the tire belt. Some of this is achieved by the camber curve of the suspension, the rest needs to be done with static camber offset (which is what we'd like to be able to set here). At the steering angles we're talking about here, caster plays only a small role (and actually helps the inside wheel).
BTW, camber still doesn't work
- 1,211
- Earth
- TheLordSnowden
- LordSnowden
I might imagine this mystery could be related to tire flex, or lack their of.
If tire flex simulation is not integrated than the effects of caster and tow along with camber will be wrong. In days of old camber was a simple value that increased turning traction to a certain point before falling off.
Now with all the systems working together, if one does not work then the rest don't either... And this might explain why 0 camber is the max footprint right now.
In GT games there tends to always be a physical representation to their computational systems like camber, body roll, push and pull in the suspension, etc. (though you don't have too), and I don't see tire flex...
Not to mention, each update has brought some degree of physics or property adjustments so the whole system is clearly still being developed... And like others pointed out above, any data reader or systems to read data in game that would help us prove this are strangely absent...
If tire flex simulation is not integrated than the effects of caster and tow along with camber will be wrong. In days of old camber was a simple value that increased turning traction to a certain point before falling off.
Now with all the systems working together, if one does not work then the rest don't either... And this might explain why 0 camber is the max footprint right now.
In GT games there tends to always be a physical representation to their computational systems like camber, body roll, push and pull in the suspension, etc. (though you don't have too), and I don't see tire flex...
Not to mention, each update has brought some degree of physics or property adjustments so the whole system is clearly still being developed... And like others pointed out above, any data reader or systems to read data in game that would help us prove this are strangely absent...
- 276
They most likely are using some sort of magic formula type tire model, essentially a black box consisting of a set of equations for which the coefficients are tuned so that the model behaviour matches a set of measurements from a tire testrig. Inputs would be wheel load, longitudinal slip, side slip angle and (absolute, i.e. relative to the road) camber, outputs are longitudinal and lateral force plus the torques. Tire deformation isn't directly modeled as such, but the model will still accurately mimic the camber effect on the forces as measured on the testrig (influenced by tire deformation, so through this you'll have it in the model as well).
ETA: Even if there was no tire deformation so that optimum camber would be 0, that would be absolute camber. Absolute camber is relative camber (relative to the vehicle body, which is what we're trying to set here) PLUS body roll. There clearly is body roll, so we would need the same amount of negative camber to put the outside tire perpendicular to the road surface. Adding camber would nevertheless increase the grip level (up to a point of course).
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Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
That whole post is completly wrong and a part of the problem, people like you preaching about stuff you do not fully understand.
You get your neg camber on the outside wheel from your caster angle what we want is to spread grip across both front tires as evenly as possible so we dont ask too much of one side, and thus manipulate this ballance to how we want the car to handle inside its ability.
Using camber angle for outside wheel tuning ignoring the iside wheel saying the inside wheel is not important is a clear sign of you dont understand the suspention correctly, more ears open mouth shut and you may learn something....
Its frustrating because you are missleading people based off your own misunderstanding.
Go with 0 camber and toe, grab a RWD and park on track turn wheel all the way to one side the go photo mode and look at the inside wheel and outside wheel.
You will see neg camber (with a 0 camber setting) on the outside but pos camber on the inside.
Now add 2.5 neg camber up front park on track again but only turn the wheel 30% now look at how nice and flat your inside tire is with all of 2.5 neg camber lmfao.i wonder why that odly feels good
You get your neg camber on the outside wheel from your caster angle what we want is to spread grip across both front tires as evenly as possible so we dont ask too much of one side, and thus manipulate this ballance to how we want the car to handle inside its ability.
Using camber angle for outside wheel tuning ignoring the iside wheel saying the inside wheel is not important is a clear sign of you dont understand the suspention correctly, more ears open mouth shut and you may learn something....
Its frustrating because you are missleading people based off your own misunderstanding.
Go with 0 camber and toe, grab a RWD and park on track turn wheel all the way to one side the go photo mode and look at the inside wheel and outside wheel.
You will see neg camber (with a 0 camber setting) on the outside but pos camber on the inside.
Now add 2.5 neg camber up front park on track again but only turn the wheel 30% now look at how nice and flat your inside tire is with all of 2.5 neg camber lmfao.i wonder why that odly feels good
- 276
I might have no idea about this stuff, but at least it gets food on the table 
.
Only three remarks.
Yes, caster adds to camber, but we're rarely at full lock here. Say, 90 deg SWA is maybe ~5 deg at the outside wheel which will typically result in well below 0.5 deg additional camber.
If you want to help the inside wheel, positive camber is actually a good thing.
Track width / CoG height typically would be around 3:1 for a passenger car. In a 1 g turn that will result in a wheel load distribution of 5/6 outside to 1/6 inside. This means anything you do to the outside wheels will have 5 times the effect than on the inside. That's why you focus on the outside wheels.
.Only three remarks.
Yes, caster adds to camber, but we're rarely at full lock here. Say, 90 deg SWA is maybe ~5 deg at the outside wheel which will typically result in well below 0.5 deg additional camber.
If you want to help the inside wheel, positive camber is actually a good thing.
Track width / CoG height typically would be around 3:1 for a passenger car. In a 1 g turn that will result in a wheel load distribution of 5/6 outside to 1/6 inside. This means anything you do to the outside wheels will have 5 times the effect than on the inside. That's why you focus on the outside wheels.
Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
As I said just before you do faxtor in lean
As i said (re read my previous post) with 6 degrees caster you have about 3 degrees camber effect at hafway steering, addin 2 degrees woul reduce the pos camber to that 1 degree as inside lift calls for about 1 degree pos camber we ballance the rear giving the outside rear 1 degree neg rear camber as I said asking too much from the inside front can stress out tge outside rear
The reason more people dont come in and point out tge common missunderstandings because when we do some bookworms will always argue based off theories they read but dont fully understand and it gets too the point if you want to think its broken PD has it wrong why not just let you....
Also it is entertaining watching people try hard to sound smart when they have things backwards, you try and point in the right direction but that only seems to strengthen their conviction in misunderstood theories and stuff they read. Less copy past and more understanding needs to happen around here. Perhaps when somebody chimes in to point out the obvious (to us IRL people) you close mouth open ears and take in some knowledge...
Corect with no tire deformation it become arriving at 0 absolute camber, again as I said 6 degrees caster gives the inside about 3 degrees pos camber on the inside wheel, add 2degrees neg camber will counter that 3degrees leaving us with 1 degree camber BUT that sets nice and flat as the body leans into the corner at 1 degree the inside gets the opposite in lift and out 1 degree pos camber flatens out to 0 absolute camber.... Dun dun dunnnnnn.
I will also point out that using camber to add grip to the outside front tire is actually backwards caster gives enough camber effect to account for body roll and steering input. Its the inside tire having positive camber trouble needing neg camber to sort out... Think about it, go take some corners at speed then photo mode look at your tires in a corner. Look at how harder and tighter the corner is the more pos camber is causing your inside tire to hold on less with its small contact and light weight, the outside wheel has more weight and more grip so duh its not in trouble but that inside wheel benefits from being helped out with some tuning, giving the inside tire more grip allows it to hold more road with less weight thats whats important here. If its not holing enough the outside tire has to do more work gets overloaded and thats probably confusing people, they dont realize to help the outside tire here you add grip to the inside tire
Tge inside grabbing more think of it like running past a pole and grabbing it at speed. Your grab holding will swing you around the pole, if you let go you fly away from the pole. Grab with your inside arm not your outside though now with less grip its hard on the inside we got to help it out, and dont grab too much as i said it may stress out that outside rear kicking it out on you....
The outside rear getting 0 to 1 neg camber ballances out nice with the inside front at the sweet spot..
Hitting the front and rear just right on and you can ride your angles around the corners
Ballance ballance ballance
Its funny & frustrating at the same time, i figure someday it might click for some...
As i said (re read my previous post) with 6 degrees caster you have about 3 degrees camber effect at hafway steering, addin 2 degrees woul reduce the pos camber to that 1 degree as inside lift calls for about 1 degree pos camber
we ballance the rear giving the outside rear 1 degree neg rear camber as I said asking too much from the inside front can stress out tge outside rear The reason more people dont come in and point out tge common missunderstandings because when we do some bookworms will always argue based off theories they read but dont fully understand and it gets too the point if you want to think its broken PD has it wrong why not just let you....
Also it is entertaining watching people try hard to sound smart when they have things backwards, you try and point in the right direction but that only seems to strengthen their conviction in misunderstood theories and stuff they read. Less copy past and more understanding needs to happen around here. Perhaps when somebody chimes in to point out the obvious (to us IRL people) you close mouth open ears and take in some knowledge...
Corect with no tire deformation it become arriving at 0 absolute camber, again as I said 6 degrees caster gives the inside about 3 degrees pos camber on the inside wheel, add 2degrees neg camber will counter that 3degrees leaving us with 1 degree camber BUT that sets nice and flat as the body leans into the corner at 1 degree the inside gets the opposite in lift and out 1 degree pos camber flatens out to 0 absolute camber.... Dun dun dunnnnnn.
I will also point out that using camber to add grip to the outside front tire is actually backwards caster gives enough camber effect to account for body roll and steering input. Its the inside tire having positive camber trouble needing neg camber to sort out... Think about it, go take some corners at speed then photo mode look at your tires in a corner. Look at how harder and tighter the corner is the more pos camber is causing your inside tire to hold on less with its small contact and light weight, the outside wheel has more weight and more grip so duh its not in trouble but that inside wheel benefits from being helped out with some tuning, giving the inside tire more grip allows it to hold more road with less weight thats whats important here. If its not holing enough the outside tire has to do more work gets overloaded and thats probably confusing people, they dont realize to help the outside tire here you add grip to the inside tire
Tge inside grabbing more think of it like running past a pole and grabbing it at speed. Your grab holding will swing you around the pole, if you let go you fly away from the pole. Grab with your inside arm not your outside though
now with less grip its hard on the inside we got to help it out, and dont grab too much as i said it may stress out that outside rear kicking it out on you.... The outside rear getting 0 to 1 neg camber ballances out nice with the inside front at the sweet spot..
Hitting the front and rear just right on and you can ride your angles around the corners
Ballance ballance ballance
Its funny & frustrating at the same time, i figure someday it might click for some...
- 1,460
- England
After some More testing I'm still confused.
Adding camber appears to add more grip.. Bit the lap times tell a different story.
I think it makes the grip fall off less obvious, making things seem like they're gripping for longer. They're not, it's just you didn't feel it start slipping.
My final word is that I think it's still broken, it doesn't do what it should, but it does affect handling differently than before.
And I agree with the guys that say we need to worry about the outside tyre.
Adding camber appears to add more grip.. Bit the lap times tell a different story.
I think it makes the grip fall off less obvious, making things seem like they're gripping for longer. They're not, it's just you didn't feel it start slipping.
My final word is that I think it's still broken, it doesn't do what it should, but it does affect handling differently than before.
And I agree with the guys that say we need to worry about the outside tyre.
- 379
- PNW
- Zenmervolt
As i said (re read my previous post) with 6 degrees caster you have about 3 degrees camber effect at hafway steering, addin 2 degrees woul reduce the pos camber to that 1 degree as inside lift calls for about 1 degree pos camber
You balance the lateral loads on the tires by adjusting roll stiffness, not by adjusting static camber. To prevent overcooking the outside front tire, you soften the springs, reduce the stiffness of the anti-roll bars, or reduce the compression damping of the shock absorbers.
Regardless, no matter how much you play with those settings to adjust the weight transfer the outside tires will still take the lion's share of the cornering loads and adjustments to the outside tire will be far more important than adjustments to the inside tire. Both have an effect, but the outside tire will always have the larger effect.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
There are just too many words in this thread (said the guy who wrote a five page tuning guide for GT6). This should be simple. Has anyone taken an already good tune, run enough laps in 1.04 to set a baseline lap time then change camber at one end of the car. Without having to understand the theory, what did the lap time do and what changed about the car's attitude in the corner and the ability to run consistent, fast laps? I haven't had a chance to download 1.04 yet but plan to test later. Anyone else have some results?
- 168
- P.Lav
I hate GTP sometimes for the endless BS you have to sift through for the answers you want, GTP needs to start laying down the ban hammer, NO-ONE cares if you know how camber and caster effects a car IRL. Can we please not have 8 pages of morons arguing and just keep it about the game. For instance, has anyone tested to see if the camber has indeed been fixed, or is it still faster to run 0 camber on your tunes.
- 2,187
- Kansas City
- PsuPepperoni
Gran Turismo Arena
GT-R NISMO GT3 Base Model
Added Fully Adjustable Suspension
Stock Camber: (F 3.5) (R 2.9)
Gran Turismo Arena
GT-R NISMO GT3 Base Model
Added Fully Adjustable Suspension
Adjusted Camber: (F 0.0) (R 0.0)
It's not fixed. The stock GT-R was on ice and I wasn't at full throttle anywhere on the course.
GT-R NISMO GT3 Base Model
Added Fully Adjustable Suspension
Stock Camber: (F 3.5) (R 2.9)
Gran Turismo Arena
GT-R NISMO GT3 Base Model
Added Fully Adjustable Suspension
Adjusted Camber: (F 0.0) (R 0.0)
It's not fixed. The stock GT-R was on ice and I wasn't at full throttle anywhere on the course.
- 1,936
- United States
- RaceManiacGT1
I just did some off hand testing to see if it made a difference. Back and forth adding camber and taking it out around Street of Willow and I am still pretty consistently faster by at least .5 sec without any camber. I also noticed before that around the loop at Cape Ring that with any camber I am going easily 5kph slower around the whole loop...and its still doing that.
I am going to say its still not fixed...
I am going to say its still not fixed...
- 384
- Sao Paulo
- dpinho1975
Let me see if I can get this... My english sucks and camber is really such a technical issue.
I've have read all posts so far and I realised 2 main points so far
Scenario 1
Some guys do extensive (or not) tests and based on numbers (lap time) they say that camber diferent from zero brings no optimal results at all.
Scenario 2
One guy states that it works perfectly and its just a matter o setting it right.
My guess: work @ PD (as camber programer)
So I would like to gently ask you Sir to give us all a little piece of your wisdom instead subjectively calling us bad tuners.
That being said, post one real setup that actually make the car goes faster.
Let us simple mortals see the real numbers since they don't lie.
Waiting...
I've have read all posts so far and I realised 2 main points so far
Scenario 1
Some guys do extensive (or not) tests and based on numbers (lap time) they say that camber diferent from zero brings no optimal results at all.
Scenario 2
One guy states that it works perfectly and its just a matter o setting it right.
My guess: work @ PD (as camber programer)
So I would like to gently ask you Sir to give us all a little piece of your wisdom instead subjectively calling us bad tuners.
That being said, post one real setup that actually make the car goes faster.
Let us simple mortals see the real numbers since they don't lie.
Waiting...
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Did one set of tests. Results posted in the other Camber thread. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/camber-theory.294762/page-2#post-9280803
- 107
- Sydney
- HOOT44
In support of MCH, RacingManiac, PsuPepperoni, ...
I tested with the KTM on eiger short track (TT). 0/0 camber was significantly and obviously faster. Not only was the time faster, but the car handled better.
+ I followed the in-game tuning guidelines/principles and tried many combinations.
The most promising result in favour of camber was when I added camber only in the front so as to reduce oversteer. Still, not faster nor more stable than 0/0.
I tested with the KTM on eiger short track (TT). 0/0 camber was significantly and obviously faster. Not only was the time faster, but the car handled better.
+ I followed the in-game tuning guidelines/principles and tried many combinations.
The most promising result in favour of camber was when I added camber only in the front so as to reduce oversteer. Still, not faster nor more stable than 0/0.
Gran Turismo Arena
GT-R NISMO GT3 Base Model
Added Fully Adjustable Suspension
Stock Camber: (F 3.5) (R 2.9)
Gran Turismo Arena
GT-R NISMO GT3 Base Model
Added Fully Adjustable Suspension
Adjusted Camber: (F 0.0) (R 0.0)
It's not fixed. The stock GT-R was on ice and I wasn't at full throttle anywhere on the course.
That's funny that u used that car cuz I just did the gt3 race in single player with that car and left all the settings stock. I was amazed at how horribly the car handled. My bone stock mp4-12c handles 10x better with SS tires. I was really pissing me off the GTR has tons of downforce racing slicks wider tires and a wider stance and couldn't turn worth a damn.
- 1,068
- Raleigh, NC
- booch16
The problem is the tuning and physics of GT6 aren't very realistic. there are a lot of loop-holes and shortcuts to make the cars handle. While what you are preaching may apply to the real world, GT6 is far removed from the real world.
Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
Your looking at it wrong
First off ABS need be off with all other assist.
Next most tunes here on GTP have over stiff SR for tires and low damp settings help with that error along with low ARB.
Get the SR Damps and ARB right first, then wheel angles work better.
Also addind high camb front and rear just because makes no sence tge rear dont have caster so why add camber like you did to tge front that is dealing with caster?
Here is what Ill do, ill post a proper tuned car using camber, tuned with it for a track...
You can all remove the czmber and toe then see the difference clearly but you cant use ABS.
Maybe when things are all in place correctly it will be better for you to see the REAL difference it makes when done right.
Its all in game working, PD has stepped it up wit GT6, GT5 had you guys broken tuning styles still working lol not GT6 is out your confused
Ill put up my X-Bow maybe or the GT350, post up later today.
First off ABS need be off with all other assist.
Next most tunes here on GTP have over stiff SR for tires and low damp settings help with that error along with low ARB.
Get the SR Damps and ARB right first, then wheel angles work better.
Also addind high camb front and rear just because makes no sence tge rear dont have caster so why add camber like you did to tge front that is dealing with caster?
Here is what Ill do, ill post a proper tuned car using camber, tuned with it for a track...
You can all remove the czmber and toe then see the difference clearly but you cant use ABS.
Maybe when things are all in place correctly it will be better for you to see the REAL difference it makes when done right.
Its all in game working, PD has stepped it up wit GT6, GT5 had you guys broken tuning styles still working lol not GT6 is out your confused
Ill put up my X-Bow maybe or the GT350, post up later today.
- 1,916
- Letchworth
- mistersafeway
That sounds fun, I hope you're going to listen when people tell you you're wrong this time. Oops, no, everyone else is a little kid who doesn't have the same (unspecified and unverified) level of real world experience as you, and our testing that reveals any camber in GT6 is a bad idea is totally flawed, because we're not you. Am I about right? 
- 2,263
- Vancouver
- mr_lab_rat
Ok, so let's say it's not fixed. Do you adjust race cars that come with negative camber to 0?
Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
If you guys cant figure out camber correctly, what else? sR, Damps, ARBs etc
Lets compare that X-bow that you have, bet I can make YOUR tune better with camber.
Post your tune for tire n track,ill take it fix it add camber and you can see.
Lets compare that X-bow that you have, bet I can make YOUR tune better with camber.
Post your tune for tire n track,ill take it fix it add camber and you can see.
- Status
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