Camber

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@Jack Napier

Please stop with the endless drivel.

One of the most respected members of the Gran Turismo tuning community has given you the best advice you could get. Take it.

I appreciate you posted that tune above, I'm sure some will test it and come back with their results. (people will have to take into account the hot fix)

You seem to just be constantly attacking large groups of the forum in one hit.

There is a general consensus, that up until yesterday, in GT6, camber was broken.

I agree with some of what you have posted, but I can't agree with your attitude towards, well, pretty much everyone on this forum.
 
In most "testing" ive seen here you can have 2 people run the same test with oposite outcomes, only difference being HOW THEY DROVE THE CAR.... Many times a pre notion of what you think will be faster churns a faster lap only because that pre notion had you push for it more. Its part of what makes your test flawed, no controlled enviroment testing and lack of comprehention of how to run these test let alone pass judgement over outcome...

Now back in GT4 you could B-Spec a free run and b-spec will be a much better control taking the first corner faster with the better set up, but even then its spotty... . There are so many hole in the test done here its rediculous, but never seems to be a shortage of guys not really sure of what they are doing trying to sound smart and be the go to GTP guru with all kinds of useless "test" many times they themselvs cant even distinguish results, its pretty funny.

Also when you drive with ABS on, you really have no place talking about broken camber... Learn to drive without the ABS crutch and you might learn a thing or two about wheel angle tuning.

ABS tuned is like TCS or Steering Assist Tuned, you can"t talk about what works or not if your not even fully in control of the car lmfao....
 
Jack Napier
In most "testing" ive seen here you can have 2 people run the same test with oposite outcomes, only difference being HOW THEY DROVE THE CAR.... Many times a pre notion of what you think will be faster churns a faster lap only because that pre notion had you push for it more. Its part of what makes your test flawed, no controlled enviroment testing and lack of comprehention of how to run these test let alone pass judgement over outcome...

Now back in GT4 you could B-Spec a free run and b-spec will be a much better control taking the first corner faster with the better set up, but even then its spotty... . There are so many hole in the test done here its rediculous, but never seems to be a shortage of guys not really sure of what they are doing trying to sound smart and be the go to GTP guru with all kinds of useless "test" many times they themselvs cant even distinguish results, its pretty funny.

Also when you drive with ABS on, you really have no place talking about broken camber... Learn to drive without the ABS crutch and you might learn a thing or two about wheel angle tuning.

ABS tuned is like TCS or Steering Assist Tuned, you can"t talk about what works or not if your not even fully in control of the car lmfao....
Click to expand...

I don't use assists and I'm a born sceptic...

Edit: Unliked and reliked the post above for the edit. :D
 
Great start driving no ABS, you are a GTP minority, now run my GT350 at Laguna like that with my wheel angles then run the tune with camber and toe set to 0 and beat 1:39....
 
Jack Napier
Great start driving no ABS, you are a GTP minority, now run my GT350 at Laguna like that with my wheel angles then run the tune with camber and toe set to 0 and beat 1:39....
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I already do?

I don't know if English is your native tounge, but it would be nice if you took a little longer to construct your posts.


I'll do it tomorrow no problem mate. I'll also try it with no camber and see what happens. I might even try my own setup and throw that at you if it's quicker.

You sure 1.39 is your final gauntlet?
 
Basically all ive done is point out the truth, Camber in GT6 works, at the same time what not many want to hear. Many dont have Tuning as well figured out as they would like to think or admit they do...
 
The camber in GT6 works for sure, it just doesn't work the way it's supposed to, in fact, it works just the opposite. Why this is I do not know, but I have tested it over and over again.
 
Naw just 2 seconds faster then any other at that track and spec in the same car..

I post on the go, and no its not my first language but I do my best to correct what I can. Its not grammar school but tuning class :D

Others im sure are already at it eager to have something to say, probably getting frustrated lol....
 
'As a matter of fact, I have. We were on a blind date. Unfortunately, he never returns my calls... says I'm too creepy.' :lol:
 
i know very little about this kind of thing, but maybe it would be good to collect standarized data or something? Just my two cents
 
Ill try and provide a better means of testing for you guys.

First find a corner you want to test and look for one you can have a controlled entry and entry speed.

Then you want a more neutral tune then one done for camberless driving. So neutralize your other settings to have a very neutral feel through the corner.

Taking the corner a few times find the steering angle you like best for the corner.

Knowing the steering angle you like using camber and toe tune the neg to pos transition point to that steering angle. Then tune the outside rear with camber and toe flatening the contact at the apex and stabalizing the extra pull from the inside front with toe in on the outside rear.

If you need help tuning camber Transition to a steering angle of choice ask abd I shall provide, but you should know how already right?

Then hit the corner and dial in the front and rear camb and toe moving the transition point in the front further and back along your steering angle and compensating if need be on the outside rear until you find the sweet spot for the front and ballance the added pull in the outside rear for the corner.

Now begine test

Enter same way at same speed, then do the same with 0 wheel angles

Always fully assist free when testing...

if you tuned the camber right for the corner you will feel the front rotating around the pivot point and feel the car riding the angles around the corner at higher speeds.

Then braking

Camber does fubar your braking distances but teammed up with toe you stabalize the car and you can ride the point on the brake pedal just just under lock up diging in with great bite and feel. While no angles may bite a bit better on a straight line, good wheel angles will out trail brake default 0 as long as they are tuned correctly) ABS is off.

If you do you test with improperly tuned wheel angles how can you be so confident of you interpretation of results? Wheel angles tuned right can improve times but done wrong they can mess up the car a good bunch.

Its NOT linear so all your test increasing camber from 0 thinking if it workd it would gradually increase cornering grip just shows a complete lack of understanding for tuning in general not just wheel angle tuning.

But its like anything in life, you can only learn so much in books and sims, often the best way to learn is to get out there and do it...
 
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Here's what I know. I have been breaking my lap records all night.

I just posted a pic on my Facebook page of my 550pp Enzo 8:02 lap at nurb24 when I previously could only do 8:05's. I'm not awesome, but I think that's pretty decent. 0.4/0.5 F/R

I also did a 6:44 500pp lap at Nordschliefe.

As I've said a bunch of times, <1 is the sweet spot. It's subtle, but over long stretches you can see the benefit.

Maybe it does reduce grip like everyone says, but that broken, reduced grip is giving me faster laps.
 
Voodoovaj
Here's what I know. I have been breaking my lap records all night.

I just posted a pic on my Facebook page of my 550pp Enzo 8:02 lap at nurb24 when I previously could only do 8:05's. I'm not awesome, but I think that's pretty decent. 0.4/0.5 F/R

I also did a 6:44 500pp lap at Nordschliefe.

As I've said a bunch of times, <1 is the sweet spot. It's subtle, but over long stretches you can see the benefit.

Maybe it does reduce grip like everyone says, but that broken, reduced grip is giving me faster laps.
Click to expand...
3 Seconds off the nurb? Ever thought maybe you just drove better?

I'm sick of these trolls telling everyone you can't tune blah blah blah. Jack, your a loser dude who posts numbers on a racing video game forum, not a professional racing driver, or a proven real life tuning shop. Look at REAL LIFE time attack cars, they run camber, and more than just .4 of a degree. What ****ing right do you have to tell everyone here that were wrong. None, because what you do, doesn't mean squat because it isn't reality. GT6 is supposed to be the Real Driving Simulator, and 3 degrees of negative camber is not going to reduce my lap times by 2 seconds in reality. Now get off PD's dick, because I will guarantee when they invite S.Vettle, or Dai or who ever actual racing driver to come check it out and play their game, they're not going to sit there and set up and tune a freaking car, their going to drive around for a lap or too, say it feels good, or needs work, talk a picture or two, and leave. Not bug test the friggen game and compare lap times camber vs no camber, do you think they give that much **** about a racing game? Remember Shift 2, and how Matt Powers V.Gitten Jr and other drivers came and play and test it, and it was still a pile of ****? It's marketing.
 
Arrr you get real mad when you get told your wrong and YOU lack the comprehention let alone ability to test the difference let alone pass judgement....

Im the other guy setting you straight, even though you toss a tantrum unable to handle it.

You say its backwords and wrong but the test done display no understanding of whats going on let alone conclusive results...


Hahahahaha
 
I know this may be out of left field but I thought the handling model in GT5 Proglogue was very close to spot on. Most cars needed 2.5/3.5F &1.0/1.5R. Some of the cars in GT6 are as smooth as honey EG: Speed8, 95' F1 & there are some that handle like house boats: Enzo & some lambos. Depends if you want to persivere with the usual suspects. Every Version of GT has had them Remember the Honda GT LM Turbo in GT1 AAAArgh:mad:.
 
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Jack Napier
Hahahahaha
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This attitude is a getting a little annoying.
I will not discuss whether you may be able to fiddle with a car in game or IRL until it drives to your liking. I will not even discuss whether you know what you're doing, though any explanation you've given on that so far has been utter hogwash.
But there's one simple test we can do to convince the unwashed masses you're right and they are wrong. You provide a perfectly tuned car. We take it to the skidpad. We record the steering characteristics. Then we remove camber at the front axle and do it again. If camber works, this will result in less grip at the front and more understeer. If not, you can start to work on a creative explanation why the test was bogus and anyone but you is a clueless bookworm (bold assumption on the internet, BTW).
 
Jack Napier
Arrr you get real mad when you get told your wrong and you lack the comprehension, let alone the ability to test the difference, let alone pass judgement.

I'm the other guy setting you straight, even though you toss a tantrum, unable to handle it.

You say its backwards and wrong but the test done display no understanding of what's going on let alone conclusive results.

Hahahahaha
Click to expand...

Bravo, Susan, bravo...

tumblr_lo2zqb6h5P1qzsyre.gif


{Cy}
 
jack Napier
The Rx7 I got and didn't see downforce settings or diff, and no power upgrades so I left them all default.

Stock GT300 Rx7 at Cape inside.

I looked over the tune tweeted the springs damps added camber n toe then hit the track for some laps, lap 7 I hit 51.9 but was running 52 low up to then..

Still haven't actually tuned anything just tweaked it a bit before hitting the track..

Post up the downforce and diff settings so I can see what's hurting you.

Ohh and done with no ABS ill also mention those are my first TT laps at that track


GT350

No Assist Tuning, including ABS off.

Sport Hard specific Tune dialled for ONLY SH tires. I ran a few more laps with a few tweaks and hit 1:39 with ABS off. I like that :D replays if you want...

"Black Stalion"

500pp
386hp
384.4tq

1040kg

Matte Black

Aero type B
Wing cust A

Rigidity improvement installed and oil change

Wheels 1 in up Amarican Racing painted metallic silver

102/94
6.57/5.71
4/3
5/4
4/4
-1.7/-0.3
-0.12/0.47

STD Brakes
4/3

224

2.941
1.742
1.193
0.892
0.691

3.841

All DT upgrades

9
32
17

Intake tuning
Racing Exhaust
Racing Catt

Stag 3 weight reduction
Carbon body c hood
Window weight drop

Ballast 1kg
Position 0

Downforce 0/19
Click to expand...
I've recreated your mustang.

Best I got with your setup was 1.41.xxx

Gave up after 5 laps as it felt awful. It did get better when the tyres came up to temperature, and I'm quite sure I could probably match your time, but I'm not comfortable with the car, it's far too much hard work with little reward.

Reduced camber to 0.0 all round and toe to 0.0 front and 0.10 rear toe in.

This is my base setting currently for all new cars I use in gt6 for camber and toe. I work from there and adjust toe normally.

I left all your other settings and immediately posted a 1.38 on my 3rd lap with warm tyres, then a 1.37. Could probably take another half second off easily with proper commitment..


Next?

Edit: I'll run my 500pp s2000 there later, on SH for a comparative figure against a competitive car.
 
FussyFez
Gave up after 5 laps as it felt awful.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing it had quite a lot of understeer given the high +ve rear toe, rear wing and LSD decel settings... all of those plus the front camber are going to make the car understeer... although the higher front ride height will help to mitigate this somewhat, rear toe and LSD have such a big influence over a cars behaviour that they tend to overwhelm anything else.

Looks like a tune built primarily to cope with exit traction issues.
 
Stotty
I'm guessing it had quite a lot of understeer given the high +ve rear toe, rear wing and LSD decel settings... all of those plus the front camber are going to make the car understeer... although the higher front ride height will help to mitigate this somewhat, rear toe and LSD have such a big influence over a cars behaviour that they tend to overwhelm anything else.

Looks like a tune built primarily to cope with exit traction issues.
Click to expand...

Spot on, but it also suffered from snap oversteer on the power, very fast grip loss. The 0.0 camber car was much more progressive with controlled slides on exit.
 
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