Camber

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Thats for making one of my points perfectly clear. You go into your test with a mind to prove a point NOT test the facts and in doing so your results are meaningless. Its been said before tune wont replace driver and a limp driver not pushing it well, you get the point, flacid...

If you cant beat my time with my settings, what have you shown? Im a better driver then you, is that it? I mean should I not be slower with all my less grip?? Ohh you failled to do that and so you fail the test...

I got replay video lets see yours


Also do you guys not notice the varying temp and therefore track temp, cold at Laguna 58f on my laps with video proof

Lets see yours too ;)
 
Mr Wisdom is YET trying to prove all time measurement in game and people here are broken?
Wake me up, I'm pretty sure its a nightmare.
I have not even one car that go faster with any camber different from ZERO.
Looks like someone here needs attention.
Might be some childhood trauma?! or should I stop playing GT6 and start Guitar Hero?
 
I've recreated your mustang.

Best I got with your setup was 1.41.xxx

Gave up after 5 laps as it felt awful. It did get better when the tyres came up to temperature, and I'm quite sure I could probably match your time, but I'm not comfortable with the car, it's far too much hard work with little reward.

Reduced camber to 0.0 all round and toe to 0.0 front and 0.10 rear toe in.

This is my base setting currently for all new cars I use in gt6 for camber and toe. I work from there and adjust toe normally.

I left all your other settings and immediately posted a 1.38 on my 3rd lap with warm tyres, then a 1.37. Could probably take another half second off easily with proper commitment..


Next?

Edit: I'll run my 500pp s2000 there later, on SH for a comparative figure against a competitive car.

I'm glad you tested it because I took one look at the wacky settings on the car and to be honest it looked like an amateur tune/dog's breakfast trying real hard to control exit oversteer with exaggerated settings in a difficult to drive (in GT5, haven't driven it in GT6)car. I can tell you what Jack's illogical response will be though.

A. I don't believe you.
B. You did it wrong. You can't just change two settings, you have to change the whole car because all the parts work together. *"But dude I was faster so it worked"...*
C. I don't like you so I'm not listening.
D. La la la la la la la...

Ninja Edit: :lol: I posted this before I saw Jack's response...
 
To give it some credit, if I got the front turned in, it did sometimes rotate in a way that vaguely resembles a car that handles nicely .


@Jack Napier

This is not a discussion about who is fastest. If you wish to challenge me to some sort of contest, we can do some Time trials with standard cars if you really want.

If you wish to challenge me to a tuning contest, I'm sure I could bring myself to slap somthing together just for my own amusement.

Either way this is a discussion regarding camber in gt6, nothing else.

Unless you have some serious testing based evidence regarding this particular issue, I'm not going to be responding to your trollings again.

Even if you do believe your right, honestly, I couldn't care less. I drive and tune how it works for me (and 99% of everyone else), not how some bloke (child?) on the Internet reckons I should.

I genuinely tested your setup, and tried to make it work by adapting to the car. My opinion on it was honest and genuine.

The fact I easily went faster with minimal(blindingly obvious) changes has naff all to do with driver skill. Anyone would have had the same results. I might even get my Mrs to have a crack. She's better than I like to think, but I don't think she would even finish the first Lap with your setup. Not because of falling off the track or lack of control, but she would see and feel immediately that its a duff setup.

I'm expecting some 'lmfao' etc.

Successful troll was successful.
 
I posted a way to test camber but its too complicated for those that dont understand things that are not on a linear path lol. Anybody here even capable of tuning camber to a turning angle or did that just fly too far over the top???

Can you at least pick a steering angle and figure out exactly where your wheels are? At lets say turn the wheel to 4oclock, can you calculate and figure out how much carmber you have on either side? Its pretty easy to do this, I can.

If you guys know wheel angles so well, lets see.

Static camber test

At 4 oclock steering input, with front end set to -1.7 camber and -0.12 toe, what is the exact amount of camber on the outside and inside tires?????

Prove you know what your talking about, NOPE not going to happen.......

I challenge ANYBODY here to see. I dont think anybody here can man up to a challenge to see if they know as much as they claim about wheels angles..

Anybody?!?!?!? Didnt think so...


Just BS inconclusive test that show lack of understanding of tuning in general...

Tough spot to be in. Inorder to actualy have meanning to your test you have to beat my time with my tune, then beat that time with no wheel angles. If you cant do this you display clear biassed testing...

Was it my full tune minus wheel angles no other difference to shiw benifit of the added grip removing the angles would provide?

The reward was somewhat making a point, but you gave up because doings so was to "hard"... Yeah thats no surprise..

I did post a means of testing camber yet nobody can figure out how run a proper test let alone do so objectivly if the outcome has the a hole sitting pretty on a pedastool...

If you only beat my time with my tune and removed wheel angles but fail to do it with my tune angles intact it shows you have the ability, but did not want to come out with real results so you jumped out my car before you set a lap too fast for yourself to top with my tune angles removed.. Would you like paper or plastic replacing your empty bag?

You did ofcorse test my tune with and without wheel angles right, besting my time with only camber and toe removed to zero right? Incapable of topping 1:41 with the same settings I run 1:39 right? And you obviously had all assist off...
 
Maybe it does reduce grip like everyone says, but that broken, reduced grip is giving me faster laps.

Reducing grip at the rear will necessarily result in better turn-in because the car rotates more/easier. This alone can give you better cornering, and better lap times if you don't go too far with it. However, If the grip is reduced too much, you can't extract the full potential of the car/set-up.
 
So far I've tested camber on the skidpad at Streets of Willow, with different cars and tires.
Increasing camber always leads to lower cornering speeds.
 
Unless you have some serious testing based evidence regarding this particular issue, I'm not going to be responding to your trollings again.


I genuinely tested your setup, and tried to make it work by adapting to the car. My opinion on it was honest and genuine.
 
could someone with much better driving skills confirm that setting camber to 0 also benefits race cars (that come with racing suspension)?
 
could someone with much better driving skills confirm that setting camber to 0 also benefits race cars (that come with racing suspension)?
From my testing I have experienced more grip with 0.0 compared to stock values on race cars (sometimes as high as 3.5 on the front of some race cars).
 
At 4 oclock steering input, with front end set to -1.7 camber and -0.12 toe, what is the exact amount of camber on the outside and inside tires?????
What is exact amount of camber (in the situation you presented)on Laguna Seca in GT6 in the chicane? More importantly, I ask because you have not shown the equation you're using to calculate the relationship between camber vs toe vs steering angle vs spring rate vs dampers vs anti-roll bars vs ride height, (the list goes on if I'm making myself clear) in GT6. I am anxious to unlock this knowledge and improve my tuning. This will ultimately result in better lap times. I believe the community would benefit from this knowledge.
 
Ill try and provide a better means of testing for you guys.

First find a corner you want to test and look for one you can have a controlled entry and entry speed.

Then you want a more neutral tune then one done for camberless driving. So neutralize your other settings to have a very neutral feel through the corner.

Taking the corner a few times find the steering angle you like best for the corner.

Knowing the steering angle you like using camber and toe tune the neg to pos transition point to that steering angle. Then tune the outside rear with camber and toe flatening the contact at the apex and stabalizing the extra pull from the inside front with toe in on the outside rear.

If you need help tuning camber Transition to a steering angle of choice ask abd I shall provide, but you should know how already right?

Then hit the corner and dial in the front and rear camb and toe moving the transition point in the front further and back along your steering angle and compensating if need be on the outside rear until you find the sweet spot for the front and ballance the added pull in the outside rear for the corner.

Now begine test

Enter same way at same speed, then do the same with 0 wheel angles

Always fully assist free when testing...

if you tuned the camber right for the corner you will feel the front rotating around the pivot point and feel the car riding the angles around the corner at higher speeds.

Then braking

Camber does fubar your braking distances but teammed up with toe you stabalize the car and you can ride the point on the brake pedal just just under lock up diging in with great bite and feel. While no angles may bite a bit better on a straight line, good wheel angles will out trail brake default 0 as long as they are tuned correctly) ABS is off.

If you do you test with improperly tuned wheel angles how can you be so confident of you interpretation of results? Wheel angles tuned right can improve times but done wrong they can mess up the car a good bunch.

Its NOT linear so all your test increasing camber from 0 thinking if it workd it would gradually increase cornering grip just shows a complete lack of understanding for tuning in general not just wheel angle tuning.

But its like anything in life, you can only learn so much in books and sims, often the best way to learn is to get out there and do it...


If this is what you mean by telling us how to test camber, then I'm not quite sure what your on. But id like some please.

You appear to be trying to setup camber with one corner... Also alot of mention about a chosen steering angle? My wheel is very rarely locked to a specific angle when taking a corner, most interesting corners have variations in angle and therefore require alterations to the controls.

This is not a camber test.

Whilst I am limited in my knowledge, I am confident in my knowledge. I have not once claimed to be able to work out dynamic camber. You appear to be claiming so though?
 
Haha that rotation is where its at, i will say you need to be familiar with how to drive a car with propper wheel angles especially after so many years of tuning/driving without. That rotation is easily controlled and learning to do might yeild you faster laps with camber done right tunes.

I got at tuning challenge for you fuss

Lets see how well you know your wheel angles and how camber caster and toe all work together.

Maybe you can, it wouldnt be the first time ive been surprised...

Static Camber Test GT350

(are the wheels going where they are supposed to go?) lets start off with just physically(visually i guess) before we even get into how and does it lets test if the wheels at least visua

Do the wheels at least visualy go where they are supposed to.. And who knows where there wheels are while adjusting settings...

At lets say 5 oclock on the streering wheel. Turn wheel till center of the wheel turns from 12 to 5 oclock.

With front camber set at -1.7 and toe at -0.12

Where should the wheels be exactly????

Inorder to test past this point we should be able to know exactly where are wheels are at all times..

What is the static camber angle on both the inside and outside tires?

Then you pick steering angles, camb toe and car and ill give you the exact wheel angles..
 
I posted a way to test camber but its too complicated for those that dont understand things that are not on a linear path lol. Anybody here even capable of tuning camber to a turning angle or did that just fly too far over the top???

Can you at least pick a steering angle and figure out exactly where your wheels are? At lets say turn the wheel to 4oclock, can you calculate and figure out how much carmber you have on either side? Its pretty easy to do this, I can.

If you guys know wheel angles so well, lets see.

Static camber test

At 4 oclock steering input, with front end set to -1.7 camber and -0.12 toe, what is the exact amount of camber on the outside and inside tires?????

Prove you know what your talking about, NOPE not going to happen.......

I challenge ANYBODY here to see. I dont think anybody here can man up to a challenge to see if they know as much as they claim about wheels angles..

Anybody?!?!?!? Didnt think so...

Just BS inconclusive test that show lack of understanding of tuning in general...

You can quote all the real life suspension theory you like, but unfortunately this isn't real life, it's a game, and as has been demonstrated multiple times over the years and various generations of GT, the game frequently doesn't work as you'd expect it to based on real life experience and understanding.

No one here is claiming to be an expert on wheel angles (other than you!), but it really doesn't matter if the rest of the people quoting on here understand this in depth or not. What matters is that they are good enough and consistent enough drivers to feel the difference when they drive the car and see the outcome in the resulting lap times.

Just BS inconclusive test that show lack of understanding of tuning in general...

Tough spot to be in. Inorder to actualy have meanning to your test you have to beat my time with my tune, then beat that time with no wheel angles. If you cant do this you display clear biassed testing...

Was it my full tune minus wheel angles no other difference to shiw benifit of the added grip removing the angles would provide?

The reward was somewhat making a point, but you gave up because doings so was to "hard"... Yeah thats no surprise..

I did post a means of testing camber yet nobody can figure out how run a proper test let alone do so objectivly if the outcome has the a hole sitting pretty on a pedastool...

If you only beat my time with my tune and removed wheel angles but fail to do it with my tune angles intact it shows you have the ability, but did not want to come out with real results so you jumped out my car before you set a lap too fast for yourself to top with my tune angles removed.. Would you like paper or plastic replacing your empty bag?

You did ofcorse test my tune with and without wheel angles right, besting my time with only camber and toe removed to zero right? Incapable of topping 1:41 with the same settings I run 1:39 right? And you obviously had all assist off...

Surely if @FussyFez isn't able to beat your time with your own settings, yet is able to easily beat them by a very good margin simply be reducing nothing more camber and rear toe, this demonstrates to you that your tune isn't optimal?
 
Enough already.

That's not a tuning challenge.

You are talking complete fairy dust. Not all cars have exactly the same steering etc.

I didn't even fully understand what you are asking?

Your second to last sentence makes me wince. You just asked me to turn the steering wheel, then ask for static camber angle?(after you told me that static camber angle is 1.7)It would be dynamic, as the wheels (steering) are not dead straight.

I can't believe I'm even replying.

Again. I never claimed to know anything technical about suspension. Just my basic understanding, that correlates with many theory's from real experts, and top tuners on here.

That's the last response your getting from me. I've been honest and genuine.

I want camber to work, but it is clearly not working as it should.
 
Hey Jack, enough with the personal attack and the e-phallus measuring. You aren't the only one who's ever heard of Ackermann suspension design. Get over yourself, the rest of us certainly have.

If you want anyone to take anything you say seriously, PROVE YOUR THEORY. Haven't seen one ounce of proof out of you. Post your replay, troll. Or don't, nobody cares.

And FussyFez, you're a class act. Cheers.
 
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The equasion is simple math and easy to test and confirm in game, i wont tell you specifically just yet because you should know how to do this stuff IF you know how adjustments effect the wheels at any steering angle. Do you know how to tune wheel angles or not?!?!?

I mean seriously, you say you know all about this stuff, why are you even asking me to explaine how it works.... The adjustments are made in calculateable measurements directly relating to eachother, change one, effect the overall outcome, this is what ive been talking about. If you find a camber angle you like you should be able to keep that angle while adjusting the toe if you compensate for the toe adjustment with camber... I originally was upset with no caster adjustments but have come to feel it may just be too much if so many have camb and toe settings confused.

Ever wonder why Camber can be adjusted up to 10 degrees??? Its for a reason, do you know what it is??? You should IF you know all this tuning stuff as well as you kead on... Funny how all the people saying camber is broken dont know how toe adjustments effect camber angles and cant even tell me the static camber in a corner with adjusted settings, hell I bet you guys have a hard time figuring out where your 0 wheel angle set ups wheels are at a specific turning angle.

As far as that joke of a test and laughable results, you make it clear you were not interested in legitimate testing even in your own way of testing. Otherwise you would of been MUCH more thurough in your testing you clearly made a fools attempt to push your BS as something worth even considering.....

Back to the problem with those "test" anybody can run 2 tunes but only really push one and what are those results good for?? Potty cleaning.... I was a little surprised you made it so obvious your test was BS from the start though, life is full of surprises eh :D ...

So? Anybody know whats hapening with your wheels or just a bunch fronting like they know whats up... Google not helping? Hehe thing is whe can only measure caster in game and not adjust it, so we are forced to work around the caster angle with camber and toe. IRL caster is seldome (not that ive seen myself or are aware of) able to be adjusted while camb and toe are pretty much always adjustable to a degree. Sometimes the man throws a curve ball at mechanics making the camber and toe adjust together, so doing an alighnment can be a pita and often a compromise if a table caught a ding (rear end of 05 explorer or Escape if I recall corectly) or a linkage got bent.

An adapter is added to allow for caster adjustments. On street cars its important to remember since we grip up tires, slam ride height and stiffen springs there is going to be MUCH less body roll in corners requiring MUCH less camber effect from caster to keep the car tuned in with the reduced body roll.

With the heavy caster angles we cant adjust we use camb and toe working around the measured caster angle to achieve our goal.
 
The equasion is simple math and easy to test and confirm in game, i wont tell you specifically just yet because you should know how to do this stuff IF you know how adjustments effect the wheels at any steering angle. Do you know how to tune wheel angles or not?!?!?

I mean seriously, you say you know all about this stuff, why are you even asking me to explaine how it works.... The adjustments are made in calculateable measurements directly relating to eachother, change one, effect the overall outcome, this is what ive been talking about. If you find a camber angle you like you should be able to keep that angle while adjusting the toe if you compensate for the toe adjustment with camber... I originally was upset with no caster adjustments but have come to feel it may just be too much if so many have camb and toe settings confused.

Ever wonder why Camber can be adjusted up to 10 degrees??? Its for a reason, do you know what it is??? You should IF you know all this tuning stuff as well as you kead on... Funny how all the people saying camber is broken dont know how toe adjustments effect camber angles and cant even tell me the static camber in a corner with adjusted settings, hell I bet you guys have a hard time figuring out where your 0 wheel angle set ups wheels are at a specific turning angle.

As far as that joke of a test and laughable results, you make it clear you were not interested in legitimate testing even in your own way of testing. Otherwise you would of been MUCH more thurough in your testing you clearly made a fools attempt to push your BS as something worth even considering.....

Back to the problem with those "test" anybody can run 2 tunes but only really push one and what are those results good for?? Potty cleaning.... I was a little surprised you made it so obvious your test was BS from the start though, life is full of surprises eh :D ...

So? Anybody know whats hapening with your wheels or just a bunch fronting like they know whats up... Google not helping? Hehe thing is whe can only measure caster in game and not adjust it, so we are forced to work around the caster angle with camber and toe. IRL caster is seldome (not that ive seen myself or are aware of) able to be adjusted while camb and toe are pretty much always adjustable to a degree. Sometimes the man throws a curve ball at mechanics making the camber and toe adjust together, so doing an alighnment can be a pita and often a compromise if a table caught a ding (rear end of 05 explorer or Escape if I recall corectly) or a linkage got bent.

An adapter is added to allow for caster adjustments. On street cars its important to remember since we grip up tires, slam ride height and stiffen springs there is going to be MUCH less body roll in corners requiring MUCH less camber effect from caster to keep the car tuned in with the reduced body roll.

With the heavy caster angles we cant adjust we use camb and toe working around the measured caster angle to achieve our goal.

I don't know what the problem is and I'm not in a particular mood to research it, but you need to drop the condescending attitude.

Now.
 
Oh so NOBODY talking smack about wheel angle tuning can prove they walk the talk, just more flabbing of the jaw avoiding it. Dodging and weaving because you lack the ability clearly... It's no surprise


Awesome, not one set in here among you.
 
I don't use abs or any other assists. But I'm rather curious how having abs on makes u not feel the suspension. I could kinda understand that during braking the abs could have an affect on balance but how does it affect anything in the turn when u aren't braking?
 
Oh so NOBODY talking smack about wheel angle tuning can prove they walk the talk, just more flabbing of the jaw avoiding it. Dodging and weaving because you lack the ability clearly... It's no surprise


Awesome, not one set in here among you.
No-one cares that you do alignments at a tire shop man, many of us have real jobs and do not need to get into the retarded depth that you are to tell us that the camber settings are flawed. There is no one camber setting for any track, all corners have varying degrees of bank, grip, and turn in angles. You have failed again and again to contribute anything worthwhile to this thread, and the fact that you will disregard anyone's theory because the did not post up that they beat your time on your awful tune only proves that you have zero credibility.
 
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