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Please read some of the thread before contributing nothing.
You realize that test doesn't allow for law enforcement to charge for under the influence? And generally takes a day to get results on most places?
Cannabis makes you dumber according to studies in New Zealand
- Thread starter MarcoM
- 97 comments
- 5,434 views
You realize that test doesn't allow for law enforcement to charge for under the influence? And generally takes a day to get results on most places?
- 8,451
- Rockay City
It does. But for all we know, you just told a story where marihuana actually prevented the guy from total rage and killing his family altogether. In general, it's drunk people causing this type of trouble.
Here's a personal anecdote of mine:
When I was a sergeant back in 95/96, I was regularly assigned overwatch duty in the barracks over two units, where one unit consisted mostly of people drinking and my unit consisted mostly of people smoking pot. After the bars closed, there was always trouble, no exception. Fights, windows/doors getting kicked in, other types of vandalism, aggression, etc. All incidents were 100% caused by drunks. The stoners? They sat in their rooms, playing boardgames and listening to music. Never even once was there any trouble at all from them.
The funny thing: weed was banned inside the barracks, so I was basically forced to report the smokers, while the drunks could get loaded all they wanted. I explained this to smokers I caught and advised them to not smoke in their room, or put a wet cloth in front of the door to prevent the smell from going out in the hallways, then let them off with a warning.
So my experience: if people smoke only marihuana, they turn into quiet puppies. When using alcohol or other uppers (possibly along with the marihuana): all bets are off.
- 8,451
- Rockay City
Where did I suggest that you did? It was my anecdote, not yours.
You posted an example of a nutcase, implying the incident was caused by the use of marihuana without any proof of that at all. I suggested that it's more likely to be the result of alcohol or possibly something completely different altogether (e.g. medication, mental illness, whatever), which is just as much of a leap of thought/assumption as the one you made.
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You lived in the same building you said, not with the person. So what exactly was going on? All you've suggested is that the guy used marijuana, then went crazy. No real indication that cannabis caused him to go crazy.
Unless you care to better explain your understanding of that situation.
If you had not noticed, most of the following posts have been questioning your evidence as being an example of correlation-causation fallacy.
- 3,043
- The Netherlands
- MarcoM1972
Requesting real evidence can be done in any situation and will never be provided. We are discussing these matters on a forum. The things I talked about happened in 1999. So gathering prove is not possible anymore.
I also can start wondering whether your possitive stories are for real. But I don't. That's not what I am after. To be honest I do believe you. You do not have to prove things, but neither do I.
That's the general thing nowadays, pics or it didn't happen. Oh well...
I already have given a summary of what happend that night. Not going to repeat.
I also can start wondering whether your possitive stories are for real. But I don't. That's not what I am after. To be honest I do believe you. You do not have to prove things, but neither do I.
That's the general thing nowadays, pics or it didn't happen. Oh well...
I already have given a summary of what happend that night. Not going to repeat.
- 4,498
- Limburg,Belgium
- (GTP_) dustdriver
Your summary sounded more like an assumption to me.
You heard hitting sounds and crying after, so presumed he was hitting his wife/kid. (you may have seen the aftermath, I don't know)
Are you certain it was weed that put him over the edge that night? You presume, because he smokes it a lot, all of his actions relate to him smoking. People don't need to be high to get mad and damage stuff.
I'm not even talking about evidence. It's just that it is mostly a mix of causes, and isn't enough to only blame weed.
And it's the same for 'studies' like this. Too many factors and too small of a difference to blame weed for the IQ loss. Not saying you don't lose any IQ points when you smoke. Only saying studies like this don't prove anything.
You heard hitting sounds and crying after, so presumed he was hitting his wife/kid. (you may have seen the aftermath, I don't know)
Are you certain it was weed that put him over the edge that night? You presume, because he smokes it a lot, all of his actions relate to him smoking. People don't need to be high to get mad and damage stuff.
I'm not even talking about evidence. It's just that it is mostly a mix of causes, and isn't enough to only blame weed.
And it's the same for 'studies' like this. Too many factors and too small of a difference to blame weed for the IQ loss. Not saying you don't lose any IQ points when you smoke. Only saying studies like this don't prove anything.
Sphinx
Staff Emeritus
- 6,724
- England
- GTP_Sphinx
May have it once or twice a year, but even then they are mild, just enough to take the edge off for a more relaxing evening when the kids aren't around.
Reallised very early on that too much wasn't a good idea, at least for my partner and I; Memory loss. One example; We both went to get some cash out of the ATM the day after having some moroccan black but couldn't because we had both forgotten each of our PIN numbers, even though we had them for a number of years. Never did remember them, had to get new PIN's in the end.
Can't imagine ever being violent when stoned, seems like too much effort.
- 8,451
- Rockay City
Unless you were living in the same room(s) with them, so is yours.
That said, I'm not attacking you, merely suggesting there is probably more to the story than what you saw, and thus your conclusion has a shaky foundation, at least. Especially with so many others experiencing the exact opposite. (Which doesn't necessarily mean they are right of course, just that it's hard to come to a real conclusion here)
Exactly. 👍
- 3,043
- The Netherlands
- MarcoM1972
May have it once or twice a year, but even then they are mild, just enough to take the edge off for a more relaxing evening when the kids aren't around.
Reallised very early on that too much wasn't a good idea, at least for my partner and I; Memory loss. One example; We both went to get some cash out of the ATM the day after having some moroccan black but couldn't because we had both forgotten each of our PIN numbers, even though we had them for a number of years. Never did remember them, had to get new PIN's in the end.
Can't imagine ever being violent when stoned, seems like too much effort.
Haha, I don't even need alcohol or weed to loose memory. I already twice forgot to take the money out of the ATM after I got my bank card out. Luckily for me the money is retracted after X secondes into the ATM again. A visit to the bank solved it both times. Pfew
With all the pincodes and passwords these days and one getting older, it's just easy to forget them. Don't use weed for that.
NLxAROSA, it could very well be that there were other factors. I am almost certain there were. I mean hitting wife and little daughter is not an effect of just smoking pot. I know that. It was just the circumstances at that time were very violent in that flat.
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- United Kingdom
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- 509
Then why did you bring it up as evidence to cannabis being bad?
And the evidence I'm presenting is different in what the cause and effect is. I'm providing evidence that someone who regularly uses cannabis can still contribute to society, which is correlation doesn't not imply causation basically. You've been attempting to provide a correlation implies causation, which is a logical fallacy known as post hoc ergo propter hoc. And by you're own admission, there are more factors in play that likely contributed to the violence you heard.
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I'm not assuming.
My statement was one "can smoke regularly and still contribute to society."
A = smoking, B = contributing/positive member, C = negative member of society
Thus:
A and B
One doesn't require the other to exist, just they both can happen at the same time. Which I have evidence of. On the other hand, you are suggesting
"Smoking cannabis can result in being a negative member of society."
If A, then C (possibly)
Which isn't a valid argument unless you know A is in fact the cause of C, which you don't by your own admission. A valid statement would be
A and C, but equally valid in this case is not A and C, because C isn't dependent on A at all.
What both our points have in common is they are anecdotes, that is all.
- 3,043
- The Netherlands
- MarcoM1972
Point is that the study in the OP suggests otherwise. Well, not being a bad member of the society but it has negative impact on young smokers. Whether you and other members here like to disbelieve that, that's up to you.
In an earlier post I would have believed you. But since you are emphasizing on the evidence that much, I don't believe you anymore. I for the life cannot check anything you will bring up as evidence. And since our relationship is not the best, I have a hard time taking anything you say for granted.
And that is all there is. Nothing more, nothing less.
- 9,058
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
Hey if anyone from the Netherlands is willing to answer, how is marijuana viewed culturally? Because I heard Amsterdam was closing down some "coffee shops" because it made some tourists uncomfortable?
- 31,714
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
You have people like MarcoM, who think it is some evil drug that destroys life.
And then there is the rest on the Netherlands, who smoke and don't give a crap.
But the Government are closing coffeeshops close to schools, trying to save the children.. As if someone who wants a smoke can't walk 50 meters further to another shop.
Edit: and of course the Wiet-pas. A pass to enter a coffeeshop near the border, so that tourists can't enter the coffeeshop. And from 2013 it will be for the entire country.. Why on earth would a tourist come to Amsterdam when they can't enter a coffeeshop.
- 9,058
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
To see the wooden clogs and socialism at work perhaps
?
?
- 31,714
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
Why would governments try to stop cannabis if it wasn't harmful?
- 4,498
- Limburg,Belgium
- (GTP_) dustdriver
Just like it's illegal to smoke and consume alcohol?
Because they're afraid soft drug users will start using hard drugs more easely. Or at least that's the most common reason used here.
Just have to wait untill they need to find more stuff to tax and they'll legalise it eventually.
Because they're afraid soft drug users will start using hard drugs more easely. Or at least that's the most common reason used here.
Just have to wait untill they need to find more stuff to tax and they'll legalise it eventually.
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
- 4,498
- Limburg,Belgium
- (GTP_) dustdriver
Precisely, even though it's proven to be harmfull.
