Captain America: Civil War
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So now I really want to see a Marvel film featuring Brian Fantana.
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What would his power be? Incredible hair and wit?
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I don't care; I just want to see it.
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It could be called Black Panther vs. Sex Panther.
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Sex Panther.
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Yeah, the Black Order seems the most likely scenario. Since they are 5 (6 with Thanos), they can pretty much split so each can get one of the Infinity Stones. Thanos to Asgard, since they're probaby the most powerfull adversaries. Ebony Maw deals with Doctor Strange, and the rest of Black Order's members could be assigned to any of the other stones.
Technically, a war is composed by multiple fights/battles. It's entirely possible that IW represents all those battles to gather the Infinity Stones. The second movie being the final battle to defeat Thanos. It wouldn't make much sense to defeat Thanos twice, to get two movies, neither makes sense letting Thanos win against the Avengers that we know so far, and then expecting Thanos to wait for a new team of Avengers to be formed, without him destroying everything at his own will.
That idea I've seen all over the Internet, about a second movie with an all new Avengers team, doesn't make sense either. I mean, replacing powerhouses like Thor and Hulk, or even Iron Man with all it's tech, for overall less powerfull and less inteligent characters, doesn't make sense. In the first movie there should be deaths, maybe in each place where they fight, to encourage a big team up between the Guardians and the Avengers, and whoever wants to be thrown in the mix.
The first movie being focused on Thanos's history and reasons to get all the Infinity Stones, end the Civil War between Earth's Avengers, gathering the stones after multiple battles in different points of the Universe, is the best bet to me. The second having the sole purpose of uniting all the heroes to fight Thanos with all the stones and bring peace to the Universe.
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...I completely disagree with the multi-villain route. Totally, utterly, disagree with every fiber of my being.
Why? After watching the abomination that is X Men Apocalypse, the biggest reason that movie licked donkey balls was because of the number of characters the film had to service. With the exception of important side characters, like Magneto's kid, there are SIXTEEN men and women in that movie. Waaaaay too many.
And if we look at the Marvel end game (Infinity War 1 & 2) just how many characters are we going to end up with? Let say we can disregard the Netflix & AoS folks, still we'll have Cap, Strange, Hulk/Banner, Thor and possibly Loki, Scarlet Witch, Stark and his IM suits, Rhodey, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Ant Man & possibly Wasp, Spidey, Black Panther, Winter Soldier, Falcon, Guardians of Galaxy guys (five of 'em!!), Vision, Nick Fury and his crew, and then, the villains Thanos and whoever else he brings along. Did I miss anyone?
My maths is pretty appalling, but even I can tell that's a lot of people. Way too many, I tell ya. Just because we know all these characters, that doesn't mean they can just sort of show up and start kicking ass right away a la Hawkeye in Civil War. Makes no bloody sense like that.
Even with the story split in half, even if each film has a running time of three hours, it will be a trainwreck with these many people on screen at once. Hence, please Marvel, kill off half the characters in the first movie, then introduce the rest into the narrative in the second film. Yes, I'm serious.
Why? After watching the abomination that is X Men Apocalypse, the biggest reason that movie licked donkey balls was because of the number of characters the film had to service. With the exception of important side characters, like Magneto's kid, there are SIXTEEN men and women in that movie. Waaaaay too many.
And if we look at the Marvel end game (Infinity War 1 & 2) just how many characters are we going to end up with? Let say we can disregard the Netflix & AoS folks, still we'll have Cap, Strange, Hulk/Banner, Thor and possibly Loki, Scarlet Witch, Stark and his IM suits, Rhodey, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Ant Man & possibly Wasp, Spidey, Black Panther, Winter Soldier, Falcon, Guardians of Galaxy guys (five of 'em!!), Vision, Nick Fury and his crew, and then, the villains Thanos and whoever else he brings along. Did I miss anyone?
My maths is pretty appalling, but even I can tell that's a lot of people. Way too many, I tell ya. Just because we know all these characters, that doesn't mean they can just sort of show up and start kicking ass right away a la Hawkeye in Civil War. Makes no bloody sense like that.
Even with the story split in half, even if each film has a running time of three hours, it will be a trainwreck with these many people on screen at once. Hence, please Marvel, kill off half the characters in the first movie, then introduce the rest into the narrative in the second film. Yes, I'm serious.
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While true, we shouldn't take the titles of the movies too literally. "Age" of Ultron was what, less than a week?
An all-new Avengers team for the second movie could work though, and it wouldn't be with less powerful characters. Feige has already stated Captain Marvel will be the most powerful hero the MCU has seen thus far.
Eight now (Nebula, Yondu, and Mantis are all joining in the fun). So yeah, massive numbers.
Genuinely believe the Infinity War movies are the ones most likely to end the successful run the MCU has had. Splitting something into two parts has never worked well, critically or financially — Deathly Hallows, Kill Bill, (apparently) Twilight — so I'm very wary.
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Joss Whedon managed nine - Mal, Zoë, Wash, Jayne, Simon, River, Kaylee, Inara and Book - without a hitch in Serenity. An ensemble cast can work; it's just a question of making sure that everyone is doing something and that the film is balanced so that the audience doesn't lose track of anyone.
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I think someone from Marvel already mentioned that we won't see all of the characters in the same place. Apart from a few shots where they stand together (similar to the circling camera in the first Avengers movie).
The problem with the other movies is that we didn't create any sort of relationship with the characters. If 90% of the characters died, nobody would care. There is not enough character development so people can relate to them or feel bad for their loss. The same happened with BVS, and only with what, half a dozen characters? Character development is the key. We have a ton of Marvel movies so far, the character development is fairly good in most cases, and pretty much all of them have a large fanbase behind them (whether is for the actor/actress portraying the character, or the character itself). Civil War had roughly as much characters as X-Men Apocalypse, and it was a great movie, with a good plot and enough time for each character on screen.
The characters have to be present in the movies, even if only for a brief appearance (I'm ignoring the characters from the tv shows, since they most likely won't appear).
In Infinity War, there has to be a sense that the rest of the characters still exist, unlike some previous movies (Thor The Dark World), where the world was about to end, and none of the Avengers appeared. Things have to make sense, even if it's an appearance as little as Rhodey/War Machine fighting Thanos's army off the White House or something. If a character like Hawkeye isn't killed, then there should be a mention that he is protecting his family.
Instead of killing half of the characters randomly, they should kill characters in a way that compels the surviving roster to fight harder and create new team-ups. They should not kill off 10 characters, just because they have 10 more to fill their place.
Like I said, not all the characters will appear on screen at the same time. Most likely to happen in the first movie, is battles involving the Avengers on earth (probably having two split teams, due to Civil War), Thor and other Asgard related characters fighting in Asgard, the Guardians between Xandar and Knowhere. You have almost all of the characters in one movie, but in different parts of the Universe. The second movie, could see a final team up with the surviving characters of each "team", back on Earth. We might see an half complete team of the Guardians, whether because some died, or choose to stay protecting their planet/home. The same goes for the characters from Asgard, Odin might die, making Loki team-up with Thor to fight side-by-side with the Avengers (as far as we know, we might even see a Doctor Strange/Loki team-up, to fight any extra-dimensional threat). With the Avengers something similar. Some might have to die, others might have to be "placed" elsewhere, since they can't do much against Thanos.
The deaths have to be handled really well. They can't just kill a character just to fill in with another one. Each death has to have an impact in the rest of the team. Cap could die, so we could feel what impact it has on Stark or Thor or even Hulk. Not "kill everyone in the first movie, add some random people in the second".
I know, but that's my perspective of what would be ideal. I mean, having the first movie being a team-up versus Thanos on Earth, with the Avengers loosing, and the second exactly the same thing, with the Avengers winning, wouldn't make much sense.
I don't think so. Apart from Captain Marvel, which characters in the "New Avengers" are stronger than the previous ones? Bucky, Ant-Man and Falcon are weaker than Cap. Both Falcon and Ant-Man are of similar capabilities as Black Widow or Hawkeye. Black Panther is about as strong as Cap, but has a ton of technology around him, which places right in front of Stark. Vision and Scarlet Witch were already part of the Avengers, and along the most powerfull characters. Spider Man is no way near as strong as Hulk. Hulk alone is stronger than half of the new Avengers, the same with Thor. Doctor Strange does not replace anyone, and isn't stronger than Hulk or Thor or Vision or even Iron Man in physical combat, it's a character with a completely different set of skills. Then remains Captain Marvel, so how powerfull will be? Doubt that she is stronger than Thor and Hulk combined.
The point is, most of the new Avengers that could replace the old ones, can't even scratch Thanos in their best day. Replacing Thor and Hulk with those characters, is throwing away two powerhouses that can actualy harm Thanos, for a bunch of characters uncapable of doing anything against him.
They stated that this movie won't be a Part 1 and Part 2 movies anymore. Two different movies, with two different titles. Speculation says the second one might be called Avengers: Infinity Gauntlet.
I'd say the first one is focused on Thanos assembling the Gauntlet and all the Stones. It takes place in different parts of the Universe. The second might be focused on the big battle with Thanos himself vs all the (remaining) Avengers, and dismantling the Gauntlet. The first movie won't end up abruptly, instead it will have a proper ending.
A possible timeline for the end of the first movie: One of the members of the Black Order comes to Earth to gather Vision's Infinity Stone, but gets beaten. With this, in the second movie Thanos would have a reason to come to Earth himself. This would make it seem like a positive end for the first movie (on Earth atleast), but with more to come in the second. A bit like Civil War, the movie ended, but with consequences and doubts in the rest of the MCU.
Thanos arriving to Earth in the first movie wouldn't make much sense, if he had to leave the planet at the end of the first movie, sparing it, and then come back for the second movie to destroy it.
UKMikey
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Civil War has been estimated to feature sixty seven different characters. I'm not sure if even Joss Whedon could make us care about them all even with a ten episode television series prequel (like he had when he was introducing the Firefly crew).
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...Is that including everyone who had a total screen time of two seconds?
Seriously, though - I don't think side characters only there to serve as plot points shouldn't really count towards the total. I mean, I really wouldn't include Gary Shandling's whatshisname senator at all in there.
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Even if you boil it down to significant characters how many do you think it'll come down to? More than nine I'm guessing....Is that including everyone who had a total screen time of two seconds?
How many characters will be new to the franchise and require screen time to set up? I suspect it'll be significantly more than in PM's Serenity example.
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What of Lady Sif and The Warriors Three?
How many characters were in Lord of the Rings? That worked. Harry Potter?
I'm sorry, this is not Spider-Man 1-3. These movies have been the best handling of Marvel characters. I'm sure it's in good hands for all characters to have a bit in it.
They could have Power Man, Iron Fist, Punisher, Jessica Jones, DD, Dr. Strange, Spidey, F4, Deadpool(these two probably aint gonna happen any way) protecting NYC from another "incident".
The movie won't be right if 5 people wind up taking out the most powerful force in the universe, with a shield and a hammer(yet, a magical glove can destroy it.. Oh well). Though, we saw what they could do by fighting many all at once. For the movie, it's looking like catastrophes across the planet will be splitting teams up.
Does Dr Strange and Wanda chase Thanos across the universe by teleporting everyone? Maybe Wanda takes out Thanos when he's not looking.
Does The Collector have anything that will help in the battle? The symbiote perhaps?
Many characters have fought battles in difdeewnr scenes in the same movie. This is not new. How many times has Star Wars done it? The Incredibles.
So, Spidey, Ant-Man & Wasp, Hawkeye & BW go for a stone.
Thor(w/ Lady Sif and Warriors 3) & Hulk
Black Panther & Cap, Vision
IM, WM, Falcon
Guardians
Wanda & Dr Strange
How many characters were in Lord of the Rings? That worked. Harry Potter?
I'm sorry, this is not Spider-Man 1-3. These movies have been the best handling of Marvel characters. I'm sure it's in good hands for all characters to have a bit in it.
They could have Power Man, Iron Fist, Punisher, Jessica Jones, DD, Dr. Strange, Spidey, F4, Deadpool(these two probably aint gonna happen any way) protecting NYC from another "incident".
The movie won't be right if 5 people wind up taking out the most powerful force in the universe, with a shield and a hammer(yet, a magical glove can destroy it.. Oh well). Though, we saw what they could do by fighting many all at once. For the movie, it's looking like catastrophes across the planet will be splitting teams up.
Does Dr Strange and Wanda chase Thanos across the universe by teleporting everyone? Maybe Wanda takes out Thanos when he's not looking.
Does The Collector have anything that will help in the battle? The symbiote perhaps?
Many characters have fought battles in difdeewnr scenes in the same movie. This is not new. How many times has Star Wars done it? The Incredibles.
So, Spidey, Ant-Man & Wasp, Hawkeye & BW go for a stone.
Thor(w/ Lady Sif and Warriors 3) & Hulk
Black Panther & Cap, Vision
IM, WM, Falcon
Guardians
Wanda & Dr Strange
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I think you mean Infinity War.
Anyway, the 67 characters, as far as I know, were characters they had available to use in the movie. I don't think they confirmed that they will use all of them.
Not only that, but some of the secondary characters might see little use, either as easter eggs or scene-specific roles.
I don't think that there will be any tv show characters. And why would Dr. Strange be relegated to New York? Being him one of the strongest Avengers and
owning the Time Stone
Chatastrofes around the globe in the first movie wouldn't make much sense. Thanos has to retrieve all the stones from multiple places. Earth won't be the main focus of Thanos. Thanos has to take on Asgard first (Tesseract), Xandar (Power Stone) and Knowhere (Aether). And there's still one of the stones missing. Having the first movie focused on Earth, makes little sense, and would take away that cosmic threat that Thanos represents.
That would be another non-serious way to take down a villain, just like what happened with Ronan... Teleporting the Avengers throughout the Universe, would be a guessing game of where Thanos is.
I'd guess that, before the final team-up with everyone, Thanos will come across the multiple Avengers separately, GotG, Thor and whoever is with him, and Earth's Avengers.
The Collector might be an ally of Thanos, or maybe someone else that we don't know of.
Having split teams going for each Stone, wouldn't make much sense. Thanos is the one looking to gather all of the Stones, not the other way around. Thanos tries to gather each stone (either by himself or with some allies), and someone who is closer to that stone, will defend it.
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The way the writers have been writing these movies, that's what it seems like.
Trying to defend a stone alone won't cut it(I'm not having a go at you):
The Nova corps couldn't stave off a ship.
Asgard had trouble trying to destroy Dark Elv ships. Then, Thor just about handles an all powerful being and a troop of elves with a few humans. So, we'll see if that's doable against Thanos.
Dr.Strange might be able to delay Thanos by himself, but I still think he's going to need help in NYC.
GOTG & friends. Were the Chitauri all wiped out? If not, that's going to be a space battle in itself. If they have to battle in Knowhere, who is going to try to slow down Thanos when he confronts The Collector?
Is Thanos going to acquire all the stones in movie #1?
Does he come to earth last, to set up the second movie?
If he's a threat to the galaxy, The Avengers can't stay on earth. Stark & BP can make space armour(or just plain armour) for Cap, Widow, Haweye, Falcon, Spidey, Hulk(unless Hulk is given something Asgardian). In which teleporting everyone makes sense. Even if Heimdall does some of the transporting. He can pretty much see everywhere.
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Thanos's main objective is to take all the stones by surprise. He won't let the Avengers team up with all the different teams, to then confront them in each place. Each stone will most likely be defended by whoever is close to it. They don't need to have equal opposition to defend each stone. Thanos will get them either way, it's the whole point of the movie, the question is "How?". Will he have help (Black Order for example)? Will he go to each place himself? No one knows.
All your points are fair, but I still doubt there's any need to each battle be equal. And I also doubt Thanos will do it all by himself. The point with Thanos, is him gathering all the stones with minimal effort. If each battle for each stone was a close one, then Thanos wouldn't feel much like a threat.
Thanos might go to Asgard first, so Heimdall might die somewhere in the movie, so one less way of transportation. Thanos getting the Tesseract gives him the chance to transporting pretty much everywhere he wants.
Sure, you might say that the Avengers knowing about his plans, they might feel the need to chase him. But so far, none of the Avengers know the existance of Thanos, apart from the Guardians, and no one knows his real plans (maybe except for Gamora). There's no way they would know about him out of a sudden, giving time to both Stark or T'Chala to create those suits for every single Avenger.
Having Thanos confronting all of them multiple times (without the full gauntlet), and winning everytime and getting each stone, makes no sense. The full Avengers couldn't take out a "normal" Thanos, but in the second movie they could take down a "fully Stoned" Thanos? Wouldn't make much sense to the audiences.
No one knows right now, but the answer might be in Vision. How will Thanos or someone who is sent to Earth to gather the Mind Stone, get it against the strongest opposition (of we count Hulk and Thor), and a justification for the movie to end without being in the middle of the final clash? Thanos on Earth at the end of the first movie completing the Gauntlet, would create a huge hole, in the ending of the movie. Why would Thanos spare Earth's heroes, to then comeback later to finish them off? Doesn't add up. If he came by himself to Earth, and managed to get the Stone, why would he spare the few that might represent any future threat? Isn't it most likely him ending up sending someone from Black Order to get the Stone out of Vision's forehead, and then fails, so Thanos himself comes to Earth in the second movie?
Doctor Strange wouldn't be a match for Thanos, by himself. He lacks strength against physical threats, let alone someone who is pretty much the full package.
The stone in Knowhere might be the easy one for him. The Collector's museum was destroyed, and it's not a place affiliated with any faccion, as far as I know, so no one, apart fom the Guardians, would be defending that place. What if he creates an alliance with the Collector, so he willingly gives the stone to Thanos?
The first movie could just be a mix of all the battles to get the Infinity Stones, making it the war for the Infinity Stones, with a set up of Thanos reasoning for what he is trying to accomplish. The second could be Thanos gathering all of them in the Gauntlet, to start destroying the Universe, thus making all the Avengers finally team up to stop him.
I'm not taking it as a go at me. It's just a normal discussion, one of us might be right and the other wrong, or we might be both wrong.
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I'm not looking to be right. I'm thinking about how the movies have been "told". Thor saw the mind gem(and gauntlet) in the forbidden hot tub. I think they(Asgard or perhaps Odin) know who Thanos is( they certainly knew who the collector is and mentioned it's not safe to have all the infinitely stones in one place).
Plus, (I think I mentioned in the AoU thread) multiple battles in NY were done well. The scene from Widow hitching a ride to IM & Cap doing a Marvel vs Capcom power up to Hawkeye to Hulk & Thor taking down the Chitauri pet and also the Civil War multiple battles, can all be done in the one movie.
It's just the scene where Thanos says, " Fine, I'll handle it myself" I feel he'll literally handle it himself. If Black Order does get called up, cool. Sending a team again, has already failed twice. We'll see though.
Plus, (I think I mentioned in the AoU thread) multiple battles in NY were done well. The scene from Widow hitching a ride to IM & Cap doing a Marvel vs Capcom power up to Hawkeye to Hulk & Thor taking down the Chitauri pet and also the Civil War multiple battles, can all be done in the one movie.
It's just the scene where Thanos says, " Fine, I'll handle it myself" I feel he'll literally handle it himself. If Black Order does get called up, cool. Sending a team again, has already failed twice. We'll see though.
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I get the feeling that Thanos' plan - for now - hinges on his staying in the shadows. If he makes his presence known too soon, it will alert the Avengers and give them the opportunity to fight back. But if everything went off without a hitch, Thanos would have the gems and the gauntlet and would have remade the universe in his image before anyone was aware that everything had been coordinated.
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As was mentioned, the only ones who know what's going on(kind of), are GOTG. What Thor and Hulk find during their road trip, I guess will answer(for them) why all these stones are emerging.
Another thing is, i didn't think about Captain Marvel. In the 2nd IW, she can even the side with her, Wanda and Strange, when they face off with Thanos.
As for retrieving the stones, maybe the Kree are under Thanos' command. Would be a mad house with Kree and Chitauri causing havoc everywhere.
Another thing is, i didn't think about Captain Marvel. In the 2nd IW, she can even the side with her, Wanda and Strange, when they face off with Thanos.
As for retrieving the stones, maybe the Kree are under Thanos' command. Would be a mad house with Kree and Chitauri causing havoc everywhere.
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If Odin knows about Thanos, he is not telling anyone, not even Thor, as of now. So I'd guess that, he has no idea about his plans, not even Heimdall does. Not having any idea about his plans, Odin won't create panic around Thanos existence, unless it's justified.
Those scenes in New York are the same battle, just different fights. That won't be the case with the Infinity Stones. You won't see each little team-up fighting for each individual stone. There sure will be little fights in one major battle, specialy in the second movie. And this is where the Black Order fits just right.
In the first movie, instead of having them wandering the whole Universe to fight Thanos in each location where's an Infinity Stone, Thanos sends each member of the Black Order to gather one. That would allow multiple battles around the Universe, while at the same time, not having everyone in the same place.
The second movie, could see a definitive team-up, while Thanos comes to Earth with his own team (Black Order). This would allow Thanos to rely on "people" who he trusts and represent a major help in his quest, unlike the usual disposable army. Each member could probably take on multiple Avengers (atleast the weak ones), allowing Thanos to focus on the stronger opposition. With this you would get those multiple fights in the same area, with little team-ups in them.
Thanos and/or whoever is with him, will strike by surprise. He won't alert Asgard or Xandar that he will come. The Thanos threat is exactly that, he attacks whoever he wants, whenever he wants.
I know that, but he could very well said that like now he will get off the chair and actually do some stuff. Doesn't mean he will do everything by himself though.
Sure, he tried twice using someone else to do his job, but that time he underestimated the opposition (in The Avengers) and was betrayed (twice) in GotG. It's a completely different thing with the Black Order. Plus, Loki didn't know he already possessed one Infinity Stone in his "spear".
Those scenes in New York are the same battle, just different fights. That won't be the case with the Infinity Stones. You won't see each little team-up fighting for each individual stone. There sure will be little fights in one major battle, specialy in the second movie. And this is where the Black Order fits just right.
In the first movie, instead of having them wandering the whole Universe to fight Thanos in each location where's an Infinity Stone, Thanos sends each member of the Black Order to gather one. That would allow multiple battles around the Universe, while at the same time, not having everyone in the same place.
The second movie, could see a definitive team-up, while Thanos comes to Earth with his own team (Black Order). This would allow Thanos to rely on "people" who he trusts and represent a major help in his quest, unlike the usual disposable army. Each member could probably take on multiple Avengers (atleast the weak ones), allowing Thanos to focus on the stronger opposition. With this you would get those multiple fights in the same area, with little team-ups in them.
Thanos and/or whoever is with him, will strike by surprise. He won't alert Asgard or Xandar that he will come. The Thanos threat is exactly that, he attacks whoever he wants, whenever he wants.
I know that, but he could very well said that like now he will get off the chair and actually do some stuff. Doesn't mean he will do everything by himself though.
Sure, he tried twice using someone else to do his job, but that time he underestimated the opposition (in The Avengers) and was betrayed (twice) in GotG. It's a completely different thing with the Black Order. Plus, Loki didn't know he already possessed one Infinity Stone in his "spear".
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I don't know a whole lot about the Marvel Universe and it's deep interweaved stories. But could someone shed some light on the Red Infinity Stone?
The last we saw of it, it was being handed over by Asgardians to the Collector in the credit scene of Thor - Dark World. However in GOTG his collection is pretty much destroyed and he never made mention of his ownership in the film.
Will the Collector make a reappearance? And if so do we know as what form?
The last we saw of it, it was being handed over by Asgardians to the Collector in the credit scene of Thor - Dark World. However in GOTG his collection is pretty much destroyed and he never made mention of his ownership in the film.
Will the Collector make a reappearance? And if so do we know as what form?
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