Clean Road Car Racing LeagueOpen

[RewindTape]

Championship edit: Results and table corrected and updated. Thanks, marco

I watched the replay and those first laps were great racing, close and fair, some bumps here and there but it is normal being so close [...]

Several notes on my side:

• Pit stop bug: I thought it was only for racing tires but NO it affects all type of compounds, for whatever reason once you pit and get a new set these are less grippy and it is a fact because my car felt differently and I was 2/3 sec slower before my pit stop. This will change my approach on race strategy for races to come, I will (as I think anybody else) pit later so I can get more from my first set of tires.
• Lag when someone entering pit lane: I almost spun out because of that as I was just in the middle of Dunlop curve on my braking phase, very annoying bug which did not happen with GT5 iirc.
• Weather: Not enough words to described what happened, I can understand because of a thunderstorm for the track to get to 100% wet in half a lap, too much but understandable but as you said already from 100-0% in just a few corners??? No way. Who knows maybe this is based on the progression time plus the weather variablity parameters but was too drastic anyway imho.

Yes, that's it! I was pushing and pushing in the latter half of the race, before the "thunderstorm", and I could not get back down to my previous 4.11 laps, but were instead doing 4.13-14 laps inconsistently because I kept pushing too hard while getting fatigued.

The micro lag is like wild life, you never know if it'll hit ya'.
The weather was wonky in GT5 too. I tried to figure out if it ever did stop raining and it did, once, after two hours of solid downpour.
I would hope they've separated the weather change factor from the time factor, but it's a guessing game right now. I just don't have a clue to how it works.

About the race, a poor start, Marco overtook me and then we used the draft as much as we could, some great side by side racing even under braking. Thanks everybody for being so fair, this is how we can feel being a race driver that is when you know no one is going to ram you off.

As I regained first position and with Vuja just behind I started to lap very consistent so I pulled away.

Then I started to think on my strategy I knew with the thirsty Lexus LFA I could not make just a single pit stop so I thought on a 3 stint 11/10/8 laps or similar.

I made my second pitstop at lap 22 and on that same lap is when it started to rain heavily, I made a mistake at Porsche Curve for damage on the front suspension so I had no other option than to stop, and I am glad I did it as at the time I was choosing my tires was 100% wet then I opted for Comfort Soft. Before the rain and seing as ToniXC was going for a one stop strategy I was not sure if I could make it but the rain changed it all.

Why ToniXC and Vuja did not put comfort Softs? At 100% wet surface Sport soft is too slippery for my liking and is easy to make errors and damage your car that is one of the reasons Least was able to close on Vuja on the last laps and thankgod for Vuja the rain stopped with 2 laps to go otherwise I think Least could have finished second. Great comeback from Least by the way.

One final thing, from the very first lap Vuja and Marco had damage on their cars, light damage but damage nontheless, after watching the replay I saw a bit of contact between you two but for my life I do not think that was enough for permament damage and that gents that handicaped your race.

I knew that I in my fairly light car would not keep up along the straights, but my strong sections were the Dunlop and Porsche curves where I could gain full seconds. Hot lapping, I was quicker (and more consistent) in a light car than in a heavier car. Admittedly I only tested this fully for the RGT where a problem was I could not make a huge difference in top speed even when adding hundreds of kilos, and then I dropped a lot in tyre wear and consistency.

So, for the first few laps my strategy was working alright, trying to stay in the slipstream on the straights and closing up any gaps in the twisty bits between them. I was not consistent enough though, as is expected when you're battling for position. ushu, your average speed was just too high for me. Good show, mate!

I nudged marco right at the beginning braking into Dunlop, but as marco said it was a paint swap and nothing more, my car was fine.

And just after my second pit stop, it started raining. I was in a fight with Toni and neither wanted to yield going into the Posrche curves. Side by side racing there was hard on Sport tyres in the monsoon and after a little bump I was kissing the barrier and had to stop for repairs. I didn't think much of it as I would have pitted anyway for the Comfort tyres, but entering the pits I wasn't allowed to change tyres. 🤬 A wasted dreadfully slow lap on Sports and another pit to get my wellingtons on, annoying pit bug... (grumble, grumble) That episode cost me a minute or more.

When I eventually got my Comfort tyres mounted, I immedietely noticed my brakes were insanely sensitive! I locked my wheels just by touching the pedal! All braking zones were a pain (for my ears too, screeching 🤬), and I had to resort to locking up the wheels and releasing to regain control several times during each braking. My brakes were effectively digital. It was a nightmare! I had tested it offline and thought it was workable, but online, after a pit stop, it wasn't.

During the final laps I just wanted it to end. Least were gaining, but not enough to catch me if I didn't screw up, so I drove very conservatively to the finish, sighing before each brake point.

It was too bad that we didn't have more drivers on the grid and that were able to fulfill the race. I hope ushu's videos entice some drivers to try joining us for a bit and see how fantastic fun this game can be.

Thanks to you as usual, for your work updating the table. Just a doubt; I think you've awarded 2 extra points to Toni in the last race. Maybe it's just a typing mistake

Thank you for finding that! 👍
There was a bug in my spreadsheet, Toni's awarded one point for having the fastest lap, not two. Notification of it added to the results and I've updated the table.

Edit: Using language is difficult sometimes.

 

[elenor65]

Thank You Ush for the movies. It gave me more desire to race with you guys...

Unfortunately we need and have to work...

I would like to do one more race here in La Sarthe, non-championship, off course.

This feels more or less Lewis Hamilton´s race yesterday

So much work to do... nothing

Cheers fellas

 

[usuhaia08]

About Ascari and its track boundaries. Please note I am opening this debate for discussion and clarification only.

CRCR rules say
§01J clarification:
The track is the hard stuff between the white lines.
Curbs, track side concrete, painted run off areas, etc., are not part of it.

It doesnt mention rumble strip but I reckon they are part of the hard stuff. I thought that the rule saying at least 2 wheels on the track mandatory was included un the rules but I did not find it.

In any case and just so everyone follow the same pattern I will attach some screenshots from us racing tonight saying based just on my opinion what is right or wrong.

Then I need Vuja to check the shots so he can tell us what he thinks as he has the final word on this.

For me the rule AT LEAST TWO WHEELS ON TRACK MANDATORY is the right one as in the Ascari esses there are concrete surfaces being the closer to the tarmack the so called Rumble strip.

Funny thing is that it seems the Ascari esses can be abused as shown un these two videos attached but I think this is not right at all.

Tomorrow the pics from our racing days now time to bed.

2 Hot Laps at Ascari Race Resort | eGarage:


Alvaro Fontes. Hot Lap Ascari. Radical SR8 2012:

Ascari Radical SR3 Hotlap with Alex Kapadia:

 

[usuhaia08]

Ok I attach picks and OK/KO just based on my own personnal opinion, please let me know if you agree so we are sure what to do in the race. Thanks in advance.

OK



OK



KO



OK



OK



OK



OK



OK but very close to a warning, note 2 wheels still on track. - for me the rumble strip (concrete surface) boundary is the darker colour surface but always 2 wheels on track tarmac..



OK



OK



KO



OK but very close to a warning, note 2 wheels still on track. - for me the rumble strip (concrete surface) boundary is the darker colour surface but always 2 wheels on track tarmac.



OK left side car, KO right side car



OK



OK



KO



OK but very close to a warning, note 2 wheels still on track.

 

[marco89IT]

The CRCR rule is clear, and the white line is clearly visible on those chicanes, so last night I've tried to tackle them as showed in ushu's post, which is pretty clear as well.
It's tough though, even if being fair it's in first place on your mind while approaching one of that chicanes, it's easy to brake a little bit too late and cut at least one of those parts. It happened to me at least once every race last night and I gave myself a penalty, lifting the throttle on the exit when that was safe and no one was behind me. But I think it's not enough, especially in qualifying when you're trying to be at the limit on every corner, if you accidentally cut a chicane, you can jump from 4th row to 1st row on the grid just because of that.
So, my humble opinion is that the best way is the one which allows to cut over the concrete with all tires. Basically, cut as much as you want on the concrete but not on the grass. That is the approach used by all professional drivers you can see on youtube (Brundle, Needell, Schneider, Adorf, etc.) and used also by the game; if you turn on the driving line assist, it makes you cut completely on the concrete.
I think it's the easiest way to avoid little controversies about cutting; it's almost impossible to cut because...you don't have to cut more than that. Anyway, I'm fine with everything as usual.

2 Hot Laps at Ascari Race Resort | eGarage:

The driver here is the creator of the track itself, Klaas Zwart.

 

[RewindTape]

Wow, this turned out a bigger issue than I anticipated.

About Ascari and its track boundaries. Please note I am opening this debate for discussion and clarification only.

CRCR rules say
§01J clarification:
The track is the hard stuff between the white lines.
Curbs, track side concrete, painted run off areas, etc., are not part of it.

It doesnt mention rumble strip but I reckon they are part of the hard stuff. I thought that the rule saying at least 2 wheels on the track mandatory was included un the rules but I did not find it.
[...]
For me the rule AT LEAST TWO WHEELS ON TRACK MANDATORY is the right one as in the Ascari esses there are concrete surfaces being the closer to the tarmack the so called Rumble strip.

Funny thing is that it seems the Ascari esses can be abused as shown un these two videos attached but I think this is not right at all.
[...]

I thought the term Curb was synonymos with Rumble Strip, perhaps with a little wider definition.
The key sentence is the one before however: "The track is the hard stuff between the white lines."
It rules out any concrete areas around the Ascari track.

In those videos, they clearly cut the chicanes to preserve speed.

This is not following the track, but cutting out part of it to go faster.

From the full rules, Section 1, §J:
"Cutting the chicanes or "shorting" the track at any point is strictly prohibited on all parts of the track, including the asphalt-areas in behind out-of track-lines."

Ok I attach picks and OK/KO just based on my own personnal opinion, please let me know if you agree so we are sure what to do in the race. Thanks in advance.

[...]
OK but very close to a warning, note 2 wheels still on track. - for me the rumble strip (concrete surface) boundary is the darker colour surface but always 2 wheels on track tarmac..

I agree to all of your conclusions and will comment a few.
Here I agree that that's riding as close to the limit as you can while staying on track.

[...]
OK but very close to a warning, note 2 wheels still on track. - for me the rumble strip (concrete surface) boundary is the darker colour surface but always 2 wheels on track tarmac.

This is really a close shave! The car following the racing line may have had two wheels on the tarmac at all times because of the sharpness of the chicane, but in a longer corner the same line would put the car off the track.

OK left side car, KO right side car

Disregarding what happened before, yes, the black car to the right is out of bounds. However, if you have to swerve off track to avoid hitting another driver, it is better to do so (Heavy Damage and all). I'd treat that as a yellow flag event though, and an illegal pass, letting the orange car pass me after the chicane and pick up the chase again from there.

OK but very close to a warning, note 2 wheels still on track.

Again, shaving those second fractions off your lap time can easily lead to this, especially if you're distracted by another driver very close by. Doing this by accident I have no problem with, and no-one handed in any protests after La Sarthe, even though you can cut that track quite a lot too. It's repeatedly and willingly cutting the track short that's the problem.

The chicanes on Ascari are, as I commented yesterday, very sharp! First gear and 60-70 km/h, maybe 80 if you hit the apexes just right. Everyone who's golded the events know that the AI cuts this track, so it's a little bit of relearning it.
I find it more interesting having to really slow down, control you car, and accelerate out as quickly as you can, instead of finding the most shortcuts that the rules will allow.

I don't believe this will be a very large problem. I really don't, everyone is too good a driver for that. We all know the rules and drive by the honour system. There are a lot of shennanigans that can go on during the race but everyone is set on having a close, fun race instead. Winning by questionable means have never been an issue in the league, for which I'm thankful. Truthfully, no-one has ever filed a complaint.

 

[usuhaia08]

Thanks Marco and Vuja, it is now clear what we can or can't do. Always 2 wheels on tarmac between the white línes and always avoid abusing corner cutting as per Vuja's comments on some screenshots.

As you say in the middle of the race we will somehow override the rules at some point but pretty sure no need for stewarding.

I needed this so everyone is happy and stop guessing what was right ir wrong so we can focus on racing

Thanks again for the input, issue clarified.

 

[LeastResistance]

Is there practice tonight? This is not one of my good circuits. Most of the races we do, I have literally years of experience on the track, but Ascari is one that I only first raced when GT6 arrived. I've done the career mode races, and seasonal trials, but not much else. Takes me a couple of laps to even remember my way around again!

Also, are we going for Thursday for the race? Sorry to ask daft questions; I've been away until last night.

For this particular circuit, I actually agree with marco. I think that if you allow the concrete sections to count as circuit, then this complicated issue is mainly resolved in one go. The chicanes become like any other corner, where cutting too much onto the grass actually slows you down, so this removes both the temptation and the benefit of cutting from the racers. If we imagine for a minute that someone did complain at this event about cutting, I suspect that it would be very hard to enforce any ruling, because if you study anyone's race you will probably find occasional cutting infringements. Having said this, however, I will of course attempt to drive to the agreed rule

 

[RewindTape]

The CRCR rule is clear, and the white line is clearly visible on those chicanes, so last night I've tried to tackle them as showed in ushu's post, which is pretty clear as well.
It's tough though, even if being fair it's in first place on your mind while approaching one of that chicanes, it's easy to brake a little bit too late and cut at least one of those parts. It happened to me at least once every race last night and I gave myself a penalty, lifting the throttle on the exit when that was safe and no one was behind me. But I think it's not enough, especially in qualifying when you're trying to be at the limit on every corner, if you accidentally cut a chicane, you can jump from 4th row to 1st row on the grid just because of that.
So, my humble opinion is that the best way is the one which allows to cut over the concrete with all tires. Basically, cut as much as you want on the concrete but not on the grass. That is the approach used by all professional drivers you can see on youtube (Brundle, Needell, Schneider, Adorf, etc.) and used also by the game; if you turn on the driving line assist, it makes you cut completely on the concrete.
I think it's the easiest way to avoid little controversies about cutting; it's almost impossible to cut because...you don't have to cut more than that. Anyway, I'm fine with everything as usual.


The driver here is the creator of the track itself, Klaas Zwart.

Why didn't everyone cut the final chicane at La Sarthe? You can easily make up full seconds by doing so, and yet nobody did. I don't really see the difference to Ascari, other than that Polyphony Digital, drivers driving the actual track, etc. know it's faster cutting the track short and do so.
The "problem" as I understand it is that the game is programmed to cut the chicanes, as is evident looking at the AI and Racing Line. If there were no race referees, I imagine e.g. Monaco's GP would look quite differently.

Is everyone's fear that they'll lose to someone who cuts the chicanes?
Maybe I'm of a different mind set, but as we race without penalties there are lots of places where you can cut the tracks short, and yet nobody has turned the league into a competition of who knows the most alternate routes.

In our last race, C4:6, all drivers at some point went off the track at Tertre Rouge going onto the Mulsanne Straight, and yet everyone thought it was a (sparsely populated) fair race.

As there is no way of saving a replay of the qualifications, so that's an issue regarding who cut what during that. Word would stand against word, and that's not an ideal situation.

With yesterday's races in mind, my only fear is that the game have conditioned us to go faster into the chicanes than our current rules allow, meaning all of our brake points are very late, especially when racing close together on a quite narrow track. The final chicane on Spa-Francorchamps is similar in its sharp layout, albeit larger, yet we don't cut it and still navigate it in close quarters.

I'm a little perplexed.

 

[RewindTape]

Is there practice tonight? This is not one of my good circuits. Most of the races we do, I have literally years of experience on the track, but Ascari is one that I only first raced when GT6 arrived. I've done the career mode races, and seasonal trials, but not much else. Takes me a couple of laps to even remember my way around again!

Also, are we going for Thursday for the race? Sorry to ask daft questions; I've been away until last night.

For this particular circuit, I actually agree with marco. I think that if you allow the concrete sections to count as circuit, then this complicated issue is mainly resolved in one go. The chicanes become like any other corner, where cutting too much onto the grass actually slows you down, so this removes both the temptation and the benefit of cutting from the racers. If we imagine for a minute that someone did complain at this event about cutting, I suspect that it would be very hard to enforce any ruling, because if you study anyone's race you will probably find occasional cutting infringements. Having said this, however, I will of course attempt to drive to the agreed rule

Yep, I'll be on for a while tonight. I need to practice.

And Thursday is yet another glorious Race Day.

Yes, everyone will probably cut some corner some times, same a it's always been. There is a difference to willingly cutting the track short on every lap, and in the heat of a battle for position cutting a corner.

Why is this such an issue with Ascari and not any other track we've raced?

Edit: Oh, and I must say the Aston was much more a handful than I anticipated. Quite a few times yesterday, I was bitten hard in the 🤬 when I though all was going well. It'll be an interesting race for sure.

 

[usuhaia08]

I agree Vuja but my point is what is legal or not, at La Sarthe and Spa is clear the track boundaries you've got the rumble strip and the grass, you know how far you can go.

At Ascari I saw some real vídeos and every driver was using the complete rumble strip at disposal, I was doing that too to be honest but then I checked your driving lines especially you Vuja and you tend not to use the rumble strip at all sometimes and I was confused, I thought I was cheating but at the same I said to myself that using the rumble strips was legal so I wanted to know what was acepptable and I know it now, 2 WHEELS ALWAYS ON THE BLUE/GREY TARMAC
as it always should be although I was mistaken based on those vídeos and what the game conceds as penalty or not.

I want to feel confident with myself and know if I am doing things right without gaining any advantage compared to others, actually I do not mind what the rest are doing and I will never raise any complaint on regards to corner cutting because first I trust you 100% and if someone cut a corner I know it will not happen next lap. We are amateur drivers on a vídeo game, nothing else and secondly I race with you for Fun, actually I do not really care if I win or not as long as I am having Fun.

Once said this the type of track, esses and rumble strip from Ascari makes for an open debate which in all honestly enrich our relationship inside and outside the race track.

Thanks guys.

 

[RewindTape]

Yeah, perhaps the, by many considered, harsh penalties on La Sarthe have made it natural to follow the track there, but I always try to drive by our league rules. I'm a little bit disappointed when game Events require me to cut the track to gold them.
It is also the reason why I don't use brake assist in the game. To me, the cars feel much more natural and fun with every aid off. I also drive all cars with an H-gate and clutch as such. Many times it jumps up and bites me, but when I get it right it feels good to me and is more fun.

Not everyone has the room or money to buy a gaming wheel though, so brake assist is allowed in the league so all can have fun on their terms. I can't drive at all with the DS3, so i have no problem with it.

Sure, I too want to win our races, but not so much that it stops being fun.

It is not that hard disqualifying a fastest lap that cuts corners, so that I will do.
Perhaps for the qualifying, we should just try driving as quickly as the track allows, and for the race follow our normal rules? That way, there will be no argument over who cut the track to gain pole position.

 

[elenor65]

Good afternoon my friends,

I agree with Marco and Least.

If in real they cut, why should we don´t cut?

I remember an episode of Top Gear, when Clarkson said that, in Britain when they have speed limit control, the driver must look to the speedometer to see the speed and can have an accident because he´s not looking to the road.
Here is the same, we will slow very much to see if we have at least 2 wheels on tarmac, and me personaly don´t have much fun doing that.
If it´s allow to cut, so everyone will cut, and in my opinion that is not cutting, i think the concrete is track. That, i think, ends every discussion or disagreament, but as Least said before, i will race with the agreed rule.

Cheers my friends

 

[RewindTape]

Fascinating...

Why is this such a problem on Ascari, and not on e.g. Monaco, which also have very slow corners?
I honestly don't understand the problem. Is it because it's easy to cut the track on Ascari and impossible on Monaco?
In every race so far, two full and two half championships, nobody has questioned the tracks layout until now, when we get a new track.

To me, it's not a big thing. As it's the general consensus that cutting the chicanes is OK, by all means, do so. It will actually be easier for me because I can just fast forward the replay to find the fastest lap.

So the ruling is; drive as you find the most entertaining without ruining someone else's race. I will do the same.

Edit:
Clarification: The concrete in the chicanes Rafael (at the end of the start/finish straight) and Piff-Paff (the "other one") is part of the track, and allowed to race on.

 

[elenor65]

done.

 

[usuhaia08]

Fascinating...

Why is this such a problem on Ascari?

Ha, easy answer because Spain is different

I will try to keep always two wheels on track anyway, my only doubt was if we could use part of the concrete rumble strip but always within our rules, sorry if I messed the whole thing up but seeing sometimes you trying to avoid completely the concrete and swerving from left to right and viceversa it didn't look right to me, a rumble strip is a rumble strip no matter the track... Isn' it?

I'll try to be online tonight, to keep discussing this hot topic... On the track

 

[RewindTape]

Ha, easy answer because Spain is different

I will try to keep always two wheels on track anyway, my only doubt was if we could use part of the concrete rumble strip but always within our rules, sorry if I messed the whole thing up but seeing sometimes you trying to avoid completely the concrete and swerving from left to right and viceversa it didn't look right to me, a rumble strip is a rumble strip no matter the track... Isn' it?

I'll try to be online tonight, to keep discussing this hot topic... On the track

he he he...

The curbs/rumble strips have never been part of the track as they are outside the painted lines at the edge of the tarmac/asphalt. This is why the whole issue have me flabbergasted.

 

[marco89IT]

First of all, I would like to make clear that for me this one is absolutely NOT a problem. My previous post was just to give my opinion, not to suggest something different from the rules. Like I've already said, rules are clear and they really make sense, we can't analyze every single corner of every track we race on. I'll follow them and I'm absolutely sure no one will try to gain an advantage by cutting on purpose. I already know that if I'm slower than someone in CRCR, it's because I'm not good enough, not because the others cheat .

The main thing for me was making sure I'm applying the rules correctly. Finishing the race and only then realize that I've made something out the rules, even if in bona fide, it's not a good sensation. For example, while reading the posts above I've realized that I've gone too wide in the Mulsanne hairpin at our last race in Le Mans, like it's clearly visible here:

I thought that since that is basically a part of the track open to public during the year, those lines were just for the public traffic, but I've just realized that actually they're valid for racing too, so every lap I've gained an advantage there, which isn't good.

About "why only at Ascari and not in other tracks"; for me it's maybe due to the hundreds of hours of motor racing I've watched in my life. Generally in motorsport the track is delimited by something...different than a line; grass, gravel, bollards, cones, curbs, etc.
F1 in Monza, exit of Ascari corners (why it's always Ascari involving cutting?):

The white line is clearly visible, but a lot of drivers usually go wide, without penalties (and F1 is strict about those things). Obviously it's a completely different thing, there are millions of € at stake in there, we race just for fun. But in some ways, motorsport influences your view in these particular cases.
Another example from La Sarthe; there's a fast left corner before the final esses and on the exit of it there's a wall, but a couple of meters before it there's a curb. I think everyone tried to stay on the left of the curb in that corner, instead of being on the verge of the wall. Probably if there wasn't that curb...
This is to make clear that if those concrete patches at Ascari had a curb, even if only painted in the classic red-white, we weren't even talking about these things.

 

[usuhaia08]

he he he...

The curbs/rumble strips have never been part of the track as they are outside the painted lines at the edge of the tarmac/asphalt. This is why the whole issue have me flabbergasted.

I never understood that to be honest I always thought they were part of the race track... Like in real life. Although if I re-read the CRCR rule is cristal clear, lol, shame on me.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Hi, just here checking this league out. If I can add my two cents, in real racing the issue with crossing the painted lines tends to only apply to passes. At tracks like Hockenheim for instance, going wide happens a lot. As long as the driver going wide does not use that maneuver to facilitate a pass, then it's a non issue.

IMHO, I leave the on track/off track debate to the penalty system in the game.

 

[mephistos62]

Hey, i'm back gentleman, and happy to be here :-) I will try to be present on the site more often and get back on GT6 ( i hope meet you Thursday)

 

[usuhaia08]

Hey, i'm back gentleman, and happy to be here :-) I will try to be present on the site more often and get back on GT6 ( i hope meet you Thursday)

Welcome back mate, you will not regret it, great racing side by side last night.

👍

 

[RewindTape]

First of all, I would like to make clear that for me this one is absolutely NOT a problem. My previous post was just to give my opinion, not to suggest something different from the rules. Like I've already said, rules are clear and they really make sense, we can't analyze every single corner of every track we race on. I'll follow them and I'm absolutely sure no one will try to gain an advantage by cutting on purpose. I already know that if I'm slower than someone in CRCR, it's because I'm not good enough, not because the others cheat .

The main thing for me was making sure I'm applying the rules correctly. Finishing the race and only then realize that I've made something out the rules, even if in bona fide, it's not a good sensation. For example, while reading the posts above I've realized that I've gone too wide in the Mulsanne hairpin at our last race in Le Mans, like it's clearly visible here:

View attachment 129665

I thought that since that is basically a part of the track open to public during the year, those lines were just for the public traffic, but I've just realized that actually they're valid for racing too, so every lap I've gained an advantage there, which isn't good.

About "why only at Ascari and not in other tracks"; for me it's maybe due to the hundreds of hours of motor racing I've watched in my life. Generally in motorsport the track is delimited by something...different than a line; grass, gravel, bollards, cones, curbs, etc.
F1 in Monza, exit of Ascari corners (why it's always Ascari involving cutting?):
View attachment 129675
The white line is clearly visible, but a lot of drivers usually go wide, without penalties (and F1 is strict about those things). Obviously it's a completely different thing, there are millions of € at stake in there, we race just for fun. But in some ways, motorsport influences your view in these particular cases.
Another example from La Sarthe; there's a fast left corner before the final esses and on the exit of it there's a wall, but a couple of meters before it there's a curb. I think everyone tried to stay on the left of the curb in that corner, instead of being on the verge of the wall. Probably if there wasn't that curb...
This is to make clear that if those concrete patches at Ascari had a curb, even if only painted in the classic red-white, we weren't even talking about these things.

marco, so what you went wide at the Mulsanne hairpin a few times (29? ) - it wasn't race breaking in any way. Nobody thought any of it and all is well.
To me though, that is part of the safety features of the track. While searching for reference material to that statment, I found the full Steve McQueen movie Le Mans on YouTube: (low resolution, but still...)

Take a look and you'll notice the track is much much wider now to accommodate safety zones. Watching the race back then must have been fantastically crazy! If you look at 30.20, you can see that there's a barrier about where your Ferrari is in the picture. Also notice that along the Mulsanne straight there's grass along side of the track, not tarmac. I wish we could race that layout in those cars in GT6, including the start.

Your final note is spot on, I think. If the concrete at Ascari was painted as rumble strips, no-one would have questioned if they were part of the track or not. 👍

I never understood that to be honest I always thought they were part of the race track... Like in real life. Although if I re-read the CRCR rule is cristal clear, lol, shame on me.

Are they part of the track though? I don't think Schumacher's qualifying chicane manoeuvre I posted earlier would be considered legal if two wheels were not on the track at all times. He would have ridden straight over those curbs like a Valkyrie.

Hi, just here checking this league out. If I can add my two cents, in real racing the issue with crossing the painted lines tends to only apply to passes. At tracks like Hockenheim for instance, going wide happens a lot. As long as the driver going wide does not use that maneuver to facilitate a pass, then it's a non issue.

IMHO, I leave the on track/off track debate to the penalty system in the game.

Hi there, Voodoovaj!
You're welcome to join us. Try a training session if you're unsure if you like our style.

That is about how we do things. Everyone do their best to race fair, and the rules are just there to say what everyone agrees is fair.
As we race without the penalty system in the game, that's not really an option. The closest thing in game to what I consider following the track is the time trial system.

Hey, i'm back gentleman, and happy to be here :-) I will try to be present on the site more often and get back on GT6 ( i hope meet you Thursday)

Welcome back, mate!
We'll try setup a R8 on Spa training session tonight...



OK, so after last night, it seems everybody agrees that we follow the standard league rules and track definition on Ascari too.

Id est: The concrete is not part of the track. The track is defined by the painted lines along the edges of the tarmac.

 

[RewindTape]

Classic racing... After watching snippets of the Le Mans movie, I now must find a cheap copy somewhere!

Also, from watching the new Porsche Targa ( I want one of those in my life! ...someday. ) I picked up a reference to the classic race Targa Florio that I'd never heard of before. Now I want that 148 km track in Gran Turismo too!

I can dream, can't I?

 

[usuhaia08]

👍



Are they part of the track though? I don't think Schumacher's qualifying chicane manoeuvre I posted earlier would be considered legal if two wheels were not on the track at all times. He would have ridden straight over those curbs like a Valkyrie.










OK, so after last night, it seems everybody agrees that we follow the standard league rules and track definition on Ascari too.

Id est: The concrete is not part of the track. The track is defined by the painted lines along the edges of the tarmac.

Vuja there is a language barrier for sure because We are talking about the same thing. Rumble strip is part of the race track as along as you keep 2 wheels on the tarmac, this is our CRCR rules and in real life too otherwise every pro driver out there are wrong.

My doubt was the other day becuase I saw you avoiding the concrete completetly and it did not feel natural, it was a doubt and it ended up as if we wanted to change the rules and that was never the case.

Anyway enough on this subject as is getting old already.

See you on Thursday!!!

 

[RewindTape]

Vuja there is a language barrier for sure because We are talking about the same thing. Rumble strip is part of the race track as along as you keep 2 wheels on the tarmac, this is our CRCR rules and in real life too otherwise every pro driver out there are wrong.

My doubt was the other day becuase I saw you avoiding the concrete completetly and it did not feel natural, it was a doubt and it ended up as if we wanted to change the rules and that was never the case.

Anyway enough on this subject as is getting old already.

See you on Thursday!!!

Ah... OK, then I understand.
Agreed, we've discussed this to its end. Anymore is just a circle...

See you on Thursday! 👍

 

[SEADOG312]

I'am looking for a race team that I can join. If anyone has opening's let me now.

 

[RewindTape]

I'am looking for a race team that I can join. If anyone has opening's let me now.

No problem. You're very welcome to join. Just pop online tonight (CET) and do some training laps with us.


Off topic: I found these concept renders. As there are a few concept and fantasy cars in GT6, why not add cars like these?

Bugatti Veyron '45

Porsche 904 Carrera

 

[marco89IT]

...Watching the race back then must have been fantastically crazy! ...

Thanks for the video:tup:. Then YouTube made the rest because on suggested videos, while taking a look at your link, it has showed me this; which is the same but at 720p:


I watched a few parts of it and sooner or later I'll watch it entirely. Surely it was amazing back on those days, in comparison now... well, we've got diesels winning, and that's enough. Please Porsche, bring back on 1st place a car powered by the correct fuel this year!


About the Le Mans madness (a bit more recent) I remember a great story in Evo Magazine from some years ago, it was about Turbo in motorsports from the past, and this was an interview with Mark Blundell:

Here's the lap;

 

[SEADOG312]

No problem. You're very welcome to join. Just pop online tonight (CET) and do some training laps with us.


Send me a invite. PSN THE-HEAT80