CNET.com Poll: Forza 3 vs. Gran Turismo 5

[Terronium-12]

...

I'm sorry but I personally find it pathetic that you'd obsess over the completion percentage in a game.

Some people, like myself, tend to play a game to completion.

 

[Tenacious D]

...
I'm sorry but I personally find it pathetic that you'd obsess over the completion percentage in a game.

I take it this is pick on SUPER NUMBBER day?

Honestly though, I like to see 100% completion in my games too, though when they go to stupid lengths with nigh impossible challenges, I just do what I want. So far, Gran Turismo hasn't been so wankey.

As for Gran Turismo diluting its focus, I have yet to see anything added to GT so far hurting it. I mean, one thing I could say is drifting competition. What does that have to do with racing? What could have been added if they hadn't spent so much time on what I personally consider a waste of time?

Except it has to do with motorsports, and that's Gran Turismo's soul, and Kazunori-dono's vision. Motorsports, as much as he can recreate with some cool graphics and clever computer code. I won't rant about it, even though I think GT5 and Prologue would have been much better served if Kaz had left everything drifting up to the player to deal with, and added some other feature I consider way cooler. And no doubt, it's coming in GT5 with a bit more to it. A shame? Eh, slightly, to me, but millions of other gamers disagree, so who am I to say what doesn't belong in a GT game?

 

[RACECAR]

If there's a livery editor I'm gonna make a CNET themed Fiorano and label it "Unicorn Hunter"



I agree. For one, I'm a fan of tour racing, not nascar, and I thought a game with "GT" for a name would be dedicated to that exclusively. Not to mention that when you lose your focus (expanding into opposite types of racing), usually something goes wrong.

And before anyone gets here and blasts me for being "ignorant" or biased against nascar, let it be known that I'm also opposed to having WRC in GT. And I'm a rally fan...

I'm not gonna blast you about NASCAR, but I'm gonna say what is wrong with this: I believe both you and the person you quoted have both misunderstood what GT actually is. Gran Turismo has never been about GT racing despite its namesake, its been about driving and its been about cars. If it were, then the game would not have stock prodution vehicles along with other disciplines of motorsport. NASCAR's inclusion along with WRC aren't taking focus(that wasn't there in the first place) from GT racing, they further expand on the Car enclopedia Kaz has envisioned and the driving aspect that GT has been about since the very first game. So to say PD have "lowered their standards" is a big misunderstanding. They have not lowered any standards they have set for they still working hard , not against a time frame and with the same passion that got them started in the first place. As everyone has said, you aren't being forced to use any of the cars from either series so it is completely up to you if you do not wish to use them. No one and nothing will stop you.

 

[Raceworx]

i carnt believe people are moaning about the inclusion of a racing series.. every racing series in the world has a right to be in GT.. they could put lawnmower racing in there for all i care..

there goal is to make a compendium of racing.. you carnt selectivly pick and choose what forms of racing can go in to it! all forms of motor racing must be aloud to be included.. from the grass roots (scuse the pun) to the top tier..

the more the better divercity is an amazing thing..

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Quick question for you all.

After the actions of Turn 10 I wondered whether they knew something about GT5 that we didn't i.e release date or game details. Now considering OPM are going to be previewing GT5 in next months issue combined with the release dates suggested by play.com, could a release date be sooner than we all thought.

I know im probably reading too much into this but I keep asking myself why are Turn 10 so bothered about GT5 when FM3 is due out in october. The only effect GT5 will have on the FM3 sales is probably on DLC as gamers move to GT5. However if GT5 is released before FM3 this would have a much bigger effect on the sales of FM3. Im assuming this because nearly all the racers on my xbox live friends list who are diehard forza fans will instantly leave Forza once GT5 comes out.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Im not bashing anyone.. I'm just telling you how I interpret what he's saying... and the way he puts stuff into context, there's a constant undertone suggesting FM3 is THE PINNACLE of all racing sims... To me that just means theres insecurity and he doesnt know what the competition is bringing... namely GT5... so now he's just blurting out whatever he can to try and make FM3 look better and shine the spotlight on them a little.... and THAT imo is just not necessary if YOU know your product is good and stand behind it... all that trash talk is NOT necessary and doesnt make them look any better...

Sorry to bump this one up, but I think you missed my point with that as well.
In that interview he is, once again, focusing on what others do and how T10 can use others experience and incorporate it into their own game. And the whole 'we can add it in a patch' goes so far as to show that they can't think originally too much, and just focus on what other games do so they can make it better.

In my honest opinion, that is bad if you want to bring in some originality and some freshness, which to the best of my understanding is not something Forza did well - it just did what fans of GT wanted and didn't get.

 

[JDMKING13]

I'm not gonna blast you about NASCAR, but I'm gonna say what is wrong with this: I believe both you and the person you quoted have both misunderstood what GT actually is. Gran Turismo has never been about GT racing despite its namesake, its been about driving and its been about cars. If it were, then the game would not have stock prodution vehicles along with other disciplines of motorsport. NASCAR's inclusion along with WRC aren't taking focus(that wasn't there in the first place) from GT racing, they further expand on the Car enclopedia Kaz has envisioned and the driving aspect that GT has been about since the very first game. So to say PD have "lowered their standards" is a big misunderstanding. They have not lowered any standards they have set for they still working hard , not against a time frame and with the same passion that got them started in the first place. As everyone has said, you aren't being forced to use any of the cars from either series so it is completely up to you if you do not wish to use them. No one and nothing will stop you.

Cant say it better than that 👍

 

[Northstar]

Quick question for you all.

After the actions of Turn 10 I wondered whether they knew something about GT5 that we didn't i.e release date or game details. Now considering OPM are going to be previewing GT5 in next months issue combined with the release dates suggested by play.com, could a release date be sooner than we all thought.

I know im probably reading too much into this but I keep asking myself why are Turn 10 so bothered about GT5 when FM3 is due out in october. The only effect GT5 will have on the FM3 sales is probably on DLC as gamers move to GT5. However if GT5 is released before FM3 this would have a much bigger effect on the sales of FM3. Im assuming this because nearly all the racers on my xbox live friends list who are diehard forza fans will instantly leave Forza once GT5 comes out.

I doubt T10 has any info we don't. Also, here at GTP we read to much into everything.

I'm not gonna blast you about NASCAR, but I'm gonna say what is wrong with this: I believe both you and the person you quoted have both misunderstood what GT actually is. Gran Turismo has never been about GT racing despite its namesake, its been about driving and its been about cars. If it were, then the game would not have stock prodution vehicles along with other disciplines of motorsport. NASCAR's inclusion along with WRC aren't taking focus(that wasn't there in the first place) from GT racing, they further expand on the Car enclopedia Kaz has envisioned and the driving aspect that GT has been about since the very first game. So to say PD have "lowered their standards" is a big misunderstanding. They have not lowered any standards they have set for they still working hard , not against a time frame and with the same passion that got them started in the first place. As everyone has said, you aren't being forced to use any of the cars from either series so it is completely up to you if you do not wish to use them. No one and nothing will stop you.

👍👍

 

[seanchump]

i carnt believe people are moaning about the inclusion of a racing series.. every racing series in the world has a right to be in GT.. they could put lawnmower racing in there for all i care..

there goal is to make a compendium of racing.. you carnt selectivly pick and choose what forms of racing can go in to it! all forms of motor racing must be aloud to be included.. from the grass roots (scuse the pun) to the top tier..

the more the better divercity is an amazing thing..

👍 I wish more people would agree.

 

[Tenacious D]

Quick question for you all.

After the actions of Turn 10 I wondered whether they knew something about GT5 that we didn't i.e release date or game details. Now considering OPM are going to be previewing GT5 in next months issue combined with the release dates suggested by play.com, could a release date be sooner than we all thought.

I've been leaning that way myself. Dan Greenawalt has been looking and acting like he's trying to secure a junk bond deal before the feds bust in to stop him, as if he knows what's coming. It's getting harder and harder to take him seriously when he outright lies about what forza is doing first, when other games have had them previously. And he's doing it almost desperately.

And he's in the biz. He would know how to put fragments of info together, such as Kazunori mentioning that GT5 is essentially finished and could be released any time. Their PR people mentioning that OPM mags are scheduled to do a cover story on a certain racing game. SONY gearing up for massive production of certain titles in Japan, where a certain first party company may be showing signs of a different kind of activity. Learning that certain racing leagues have secured licenses, and when those licenses might be expected to be flaunted heavily. There are a lot of clues these rivalry companies look for when determining how to position themselves in respect to their competitors in the market, and I'm just thinking off the top of my head.

If a certain racing game came out kind of early this year, I wouldn't be shocked now.

 

[misnblu]

I guess most don't understand the basis of Nascar and it's purpose in relation to 'real racing'.
And I have nothing wrong or personal to say about the inclusion of the WRC into the game and yes, it's a plus.
But Nascar?

Oh wait, what if it rains in the game, do we race? No, at least not in the real racing series.
Any other form of Motorsport and you race when it rains, that's 'real racing'.
Only doing left turns?
I'm sorry but that's just lame.

I'm not sure of how many have the Speed Channel but all they glorify is Nascar and all it's related b.s. that comes along with a redneck attitude toward racing.
I love racing and all the motorsports that has real racing to offer.
I follow F1, the Rolex series, the WRC when it was televised here in the States, and several other forms that I can't think of right now.
Heck, I wish they'd televise the GT500 and GT300 series that seems so popular in Japan but alas, Speed TV can only glorify Nascar.

I'm still buying the GT5 game because it is something for the masses and I've always loved the GT series since the beginning of it.
And I apologize to have offended anyone about the lessening status of Polyphany for the inclusion of the Nascar series. With the responses I've read, it's a good thing and maybe people will see how (in my opinion) lame Nascar really is.

Oh and Tenacious, it's really me. lol
I'm still building my race car and it's coming along nicely.

 

[Northstar]

I guess most don't understand the basis of Nascar and it's purpose in relation to 'real racing'.
And I have nothing wrong or personal to say about the inclusion of the WRC into the game and yes, it's a plus.
But Nascar?

Oh wait, what if it rains in the game, do we race? No, at least not in the real racing series.
Any other form of Motorsport and you race when it rains, that's 'real racing'.
Only doing left turns?
I'm sorry but that's just lame.

I'm not sure of how many have the Speed Channel but all they glorify is Nascar and all it's related b.s. that comes along with a redneck attitude toward racing.
I love racing and all the motorsports that has real racing to offer.
I follow F1, the Rolex series, the WRC when it was televised here in the States, and several other forms that I can't think of right now.
Heck, I wish they'd televise the GT500 and GT300 series that seems so popular in Japan but alas, Speed TV can only glorify Nascar.

I'm still buying the GT5 game because it is something for the masses and I've always loved the GT series since the beginning of it.
And I apologize to have offended anyone about the lessening status of Polyphany for the inclusion of the Nascar series. With the responses I've read, it's a good thing and maybe people will see how (in my opinion) lame Nascar really is.

Oh and Tenacious, it's really me. lol
I'm still building my race car and it's coming along nicely.

1) They can't race in the rain because of this thing called "physics", the car just wouldn't be able to get enough traction at the speeds they run at.

If you notice, the only time cars can run in the rain is when it's on a road course because they have to slow down in order to make a turn.

2) Nascar races on a couple road courses a year.

3) I'm sure more people will grow to like it than the other way around.

4) Don't use them and shut the hell up about it. I don't see why people feel they have to bash something. Personally I don't like drifting. But I'm not going to go and say crap like it's not real racing or it takes no talent because if it was easy I would be doing it and making a lot of money like they do.

 

[Joel]

I guess most don't understand the basis of Nascar and it's purpose in relation to 'real racing'.
And I have nothing wrong or personal to say about the inclusion of the WRC into the game and yes, it's a plus.
But Nascar?

Oh wait, what if it rains in the game, do we race? No, at least not in the real racing series.
Any other form of Motorsport and you race when it rains, that's 'real racing'.
Only doing left turns?
I'm sorry but that's just lame.

I'm not sure of how many have the Speed Channel but all they glorify is Nascar and all it's related b.s. that comes along with a redneck attitude toward racing.
I love racing and all the motorsports that has real racing to offer.
I follow F1, the Rolex series, the WRC when it was televised here in the States, and several other forms that I can't think of right now.
Heck, I wish they'd televise the GT500 and GT300 series that seems so popular in Japan but alas, Speed TV can only glorify Nascar.

I'm still buying the GT5 game because it is something for the masses and I've always loved the GT series since the beginning of it.
And I apologize to have offended anyone about the lessening status of Polyphany for the inclusion of the Nascar series. With the responses I've read, it's a good thing and maybe people will see how (in my opinion) lame Nascar really is.

Oh and Tenacious, it's really me. lol
I'm still building my race car and it's coming along nicely.

I don't like this NASCAR isn't "real racing" bullcrap.

 

[misnblu]

1) They can't race in the rain because of this thing called "physics", the car just wouldn't be able to get enough traction at the speeds they run at.

If you notice, the only time cars can run in the rain is when it's on a road course because they have to slow down in order to make a turn.

2) Nascar races on a couple road courses a year.

Physics meaning they're under tired and over powered.
Maybe if they'd also do some turns, they'd accept the fact that rain tires exist.
Ever watched Nascar guys racing the road courses? That's humorous at its best and really shows the lack of engineering skills for actually tuning a car for the course.

And 'to shut the hell up' is that's it's my opinion and I'm very passionate with racing.
Maybe you wouldn't understand that from a racing point of view or how it all comes together.

And again I apologize for getting the emotions stirred up with this topic and for possibly going off topic.
But we do have some relevance with the topic.

 

[McLaren]

I guess most don't understand the basis of Nascar and it's purpose in relation to 'real racing'.
And I have nothing wrong or personal to say about the inclusion of the WRC into the game and yes, it's a plus.
But Nascar?

Oh wait, what if it rains in the game, do we race? No, at least not in the real racing series.
Any other form of Motorsport and you race when it rains, that's 'real racing'.
Only doing left turns?
I'm sorry but that's just lame.

I'm not sure of how many have the Speed Channel but all they glorify is Nascar and all it's related b.s. that comes along with a redneck attitude toward racing.
I love racing and all the motorsports that has real racing to offer.
I follow F1, the Rolex series, the WRC when it was televised here in the States, and several other forms that I can't think of right now.
Heck, I wish they'd televise the GT500 and GT300 series that seems so popular in Japan but alas, Speed TV can only glorify Nascar.

I'm still buying the GT5 game because it is something for the masses and I've always loved the GT series since the beginning of it.
And I apologize to have offended anyone about the lessening status of Polyphany for the inclusion of the Nascar series. With the responses I've read, it's a good thing and maybe people will see how (in my opinion) lame Nascar really is.

Oh and Tenacious, it's really me. lol
I'm still building my race car and it's coming along nicely.

Your ignorance is appalling, mate. 👎

 

[Northstar]

Physics meaning they're under tired and over powered.
Maybe if they'd also do some turns, they'd accept the fact that rain tires exist.
Ever watched Nascar guys racing the road courses? That's humorous at its best and really shows the lack of engineering skills for actually tuning a car for the course.

And 'to shut the hell up' is that's it's my opinion and I'm very passionate with racing.
Maybe you wouldn't understand that from a racing point of view or how it all comes together.

And again I apologize for getting the emotions stirred up with this topic and for possibly going off topic.
But we do have some relevance with the topic.

I am too, I also have this thing called RESPECT, I respect all racing for what it is. Just because in your eyes it isn't your kind of racing doesn't mean it's not real racing.

Like I said, I personally cannot stand drifting, but I have respect as I know it is something I can't do. I also am not going to start bashing people for liking it or for it being included in the game.

Also, what is your definition of racing. Because if 43 cars racing at one time isn't racing than what the hell is?

 

[misnblu]

I am too, I also have this thing called RESPECT, I respect all racing for what it is. Just because in your eyes it isn't your kind of racing doesn't mean it's not real racing.

Like I said, I personally cannot stand drifting, but I have respect as I know it is something I can't do. I also am not going to start bashing people for liking it or for it being included in the game.

Also, what is your definition of racing. Because if 43 cars racing at one time isn't racing than what the hell is?

Very good reply and mature.
And yes, I do respect Nascar because anyone coming from other venues of racing find it very difficult to adjust to it's racing technique.
And 43 cars seems a bit much but from a marketing point of view, it's extremely popular with it's audience.
The other thing about Nascar is that it's a race that can be enjoyed by a multitude of people sitting in stands that will never lose the first place leader since it's all about keeping the racing in view.

I just don't like that fact that it's marketed so much and made out to be so important that it's the 'epitome' of racing or a racing series. It's not.
So yeah, I do give it respect with the drivers having some real nads to get behind the wheel of these cars and do what they do for 500 miles. Kudo's.

And Reventon, I am sorry for being ignorant in your eyes for my opinion.
Hey, that's your opinion, and it's your statement. I can live with that.
Anyway, I've disturbed this community enough about my opinions so I'll gladly go back to my lurking in the background.

Back on topic. 👍

 

[G.T.Ace]

I agree with Northstar 100%.

I just don't like that fact that it's marketed so much and made out to be so important that it's the 'epitome' of racing or a racing series.

They do the same with F1 here, which i find way more annoying since they dont show most "alternative" motorsport here.

 

[Northstar]

I just don't like that fact that it's marketed so much and made out to be so important that it's the 'epitome' of racing or a racing series.



Back on topic. 👍

I agree with this part, the last 5 years or so NASCAR has gotten to big for its own good. They basically decided to go for the "fad" audience instead of continuing to appeal to the loyal one. Now a large part of the "fad" audience has basically gone leaving mainly what is left of the loyal audience that stuck with NASCAR. (you can tell this by TV ratings)

Also, Speed is the main culprit, they have basically turned into the NASCAR channel. I wish they would go back to their old format, not 10 NASCAR shows a day with infomercials in the middle(I consider most car shows on Speed infomercials).

 

[McLaren]

And Reventon, I am sorry for being ignorant in your eyes for my opinion.
Hey, that's your opinion, and it's your statement. I can live with that.
Anyway, I've disturbed this community enough about my opinions so I'll gladly go back to my lurking in the background.

Back on topic. 👍

Having an opinion is one thing. But to say Nascar isn't real racing, or shows a lack of engineering skill is laughable. Your comments just make you look like one of those idiots who have zero knowledge about how Nascar works, and I know you're better than that.

Sounds to me that your problem has more to do with the way Nascar is advertised & shown on TV than the actual racing itself.

 

[Terronium-12]

Also, Speed is the main culprit, they have basically turned into the NASCAR channel. I wish they would go back to their old format, not 10 NASCAR shows a day with infomercials in the middle(I consider most car shows on Speed infomercials).

I'm pleased to know I'm not the only person who thinks this. I don't watch Speed Channel, or as I'd like to remember it SpeedTV. No more WRC or pretty much anything that was shown on a regular basis, and if it is shown it's going to be at 4 in the morning.

By the way, what the hell happened to Autoweek? That also disappear when the Speed Channel transition was made?

 

[RACECAR]

Also, Speed is the main culprit, they have basically turned into the NASCAR channel. I wish they would go back to their old format, not 10 NASCAR shows a day with infomercials in the middle(I consider most car shows on Speed infomercials).

Fox (a channel with the most horrible shows ever) is the main culprit as they brought Speed Channel. They pretty much make it clear all the time when they show the schedule "across the Fox networks" so whoever can buy Speed Channel from Fox would be doing alot of us a favor. I sure would love to go back to the days of "Flag-to-Flag" coverage Speedvision gave us.

 

[Tenacious D]

I just don't like that fact that it's marketed so much and made out to be so important that it's the 'epitome' of racing or a racing series. It's not.

I will have to agree that among the "serious" racing, such as WRC, F1, DTM etc, NASCAR is the least exciting to watch for me. But get in a game, and... well, it's a different game.

 

[Terronium-12]

Fox (a channel with the most horrible shows ever) is the main culprit as they brought Speed Channel. They pretty much make it clear all the time when they show the schedule "across the Fox networks" so whoever can buy Speed Channel from Fox would be doing alot of us a favor. I sure would love to go back to the days of "Flag-to-Flag" coverage Speedvision gave us.

Speedvision, that's what it was. I always mix that up with SpeedTV, furthermore, I didn't know FOX brought Speed.

No wonder it sucks now.

 

[misnblu]

Having an opinion is one thing. But to say Nascar isn't real racing, or shows a lack of engineering skill is laughable. Your comments just make you look like one of those idiots who have zero knowledge about how Nascar works, and I know you're better than that.

Sounds to me that your problem has more to do with the way Nascar is advertised & shown on TV than the actual racing itself.

You hit the nail right on the head and I thank you for saying what I couldn't. 👍
I think we can agree on everything else though.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Without going any further down this tangent, I'm just gonna close off just saying that while some of you think more is better (adding every single form of motorsport to GT), I strongly disagree. I've seen many prodicts before deviating from what made them good in the FIRST place, only to end up diluted (NFS, I'm looking at you.) Adding auto racing, motorcycle racing, truck racing, air racing, motorboat racing, snowmobile racing and lawn mower racing sounds like a good value at first, until they end up not focusing on any of them well enough to be worth anything.

 

[albteman015]

With their fancy new controller, Force Feedback won't be a thorn in the sides of the developers anymore!

I was talking about the virtual driver inside the car. Racing drivers usually take their hands off of the wheel when getting into a collision like that because sometimes the steering wheel jerks so violently the it can snap the driver's wrists. MY point was that it would have been more realistic for them to do that. The thing with forza is that they always have great ideas but they are never executed properly.

 

[killanite]

Without going any further down this tangent, I'm just gonna close off just saying that while some of you think more is better (adding every single form of motorsport to GT), I strongly disagree. I've seen many prodicts before deviating from what made them good in the FIRST place, only to end up diluted (NFS, I'm looking at you.) Adding auto racing, motorcycle racing, truck racing, air racing, motorboat racing, snowmobile racing and lawn mower racing sounds like a good value at first, until they end up not focusing on any of them well enough to be worth anything.

would you like to elaborate on telling us what you think GT's main focus is??.. i always saw it's focus as a car and racing encyclopedia, and im pretty sure Nascar fits that category (otherwise you'd be argueing why the citreon 2cv and the old beetle were in gt4, pretty sure not many people enjoy driving those 2 cars but no one accused GT of losing focus when they put them in GT4 because they are CARS, and any car deserves to be considered a contender to be in GT if those 2 made it in)

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

The original Gran Turismo. The first and greatest...touring sport car racing period.

 

[Northstar]

Without going any further down this tangent, I'm just gonna close off just saying that while some of you think more is better (adding every single form of motorsport to GT), I strongly disagree. I've seen many prodicts before deviating from what made them good in the FIRST place, only to end up diluted (NFS, I'm looking at you.) Adding auto racing, motorcycle racing, truck racing, air racing, motorboat racing, snowmobile racing and lawn mower racing sounds like a good value at first, until they end up not focusing on any of them well enough to be worth anything.

Talk about taking something out of context. They are adding a new kind of CAR, not lawnmowers or ny of that other crap you listed. If you actually look at GT1's car list it is rather bland when compared to what we have in GT4 even. If you want only GT/Touring cars just use those.

Also, the NFS series got diluted because they turned it into a sports game. You know, new game minor changes from the last one.