CODEMASTERS acquire F1 Racing License from FOM (merged)

[<_Spike_>]

Finally. Hopefully they'll make an F1 game with decent physics and AI that does actually avoid you...rather than try and pull a Sato on you in every corner. If their F1 game can be anything that can be as fun as their Formula 3 section of Racedriver: Grid...it'll leave EA crying.

 

[MS7XWDC]

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Was that video intended to be encouraging?

The only thing that video did was make me want to play F1CE more, and dread what CM has planned for the next F1 game.

If you look at previous F1 games, they&#8217;ve steered down exactly the same path in terms of their presentation and maybe the handling as well, and we&#8217;d love to think we can do something to refresh the brand a little bit, to do things a little bit differently.

Seeing as the direction the last few F1 games has been getting progressively more realistic and accurate physics and far better circuit graphics than what that video showed from a finished game no less... and instead of using words like simulation and realism when asked to describe what they have in mind for their first F1 game, CM uses words like "refresh" and "different".

How any fan of F1 sim games can be happy about CM taking possession of the exclusive license to F1 games is beyond me, but I can see why the fans of GRiD, PGR, NFS and other arcade style racing games who happen to be F1 fans are rejoicing.

 

[m7ammed]

I'm not liking this one bit , they are going to screw this up so bad

 

[flubbachany]

It's gonna suck hard, look at what they did to GRiD

 

[kikie]

Luckily I am not interested in F1 games.

I personally think that CM is only interested in making money and they are a threath for future game, sim developers. CM has a lot of money. If CM starts to acquire other racing licenses ( DTM, Porsche super cup, F1, ect...) , other serious gamedevelopers won't get the change to create decent sims because CM has the licenses this is just hypothatical.

Their new F1 game is going to be an arcade game and a joke.

 

[flubbachany]

Luckily I am not interested in F1 games.

I personally think that CM is only interested in making money and they are a threath for future game, sim developers. CM has a lot of money. If CM starts to acquire other racing licenses ( DTM, Porsche super cup, F1, ect...) , other serious gamedevelopers won't get the change to create decent sims because CM has the licenses this is just hypothatical.

Their new F1 game is going to be an arcade game and a joke.

Totally agree:tup:

 

[MS7XWDC]

 

[wrcsti]

I'd say they will screw this up for us. And for the above poster, the glass is too big for the volume of water there is inside it.

 

[EnZo-UK]

I have a feeling the next F1 game will be rubbish

 

[MS7XWDC]

 

[nissan tuner]

what a waste.

such great tracks & cars without pitlanes and proper physics

 

[MS7XWDC]

 

[Blake]

the physics are great, IMHO for an F3000 car

 

[Scaff]

why would they put Pit lanes in a game without Pit Stops ?

the physics are great, IMHO for an F3000 car

The physics in Grid are anything but great (for a sim), they are pure arcade. Which leads me to a rather depressing development...

Codemasters has given the first solid details on its upcoming F1 game since it acquired the official licence a month ago.

Advertisement:
Speaking with the official Formula 1 website, Codemasters CEO Rod Cousens said the company would be focusing on filling F1 holes in the current generation. "We'll be targeting formats where there's been no Formula One experience for a number of years," he said.

Although this sounds like the PS3 will be taking a back seat, he later says the PS3 and 360 versions will "go through a parallel development process".

Cousens highlights the Wii's popularity as a focal point, revealing plans to "use the controller like a steering wheel." Keep those Mario Kart steering wheels handy, then.

He also emphasised the team's commitment to making the car damage as realistic as possible. But what about the handling? Codies has turned the Colin McRae and Toca franchises, previously known for their hardcore realism, into more arcadey experiences for the mass market.

Cousens says the F1 game will do both. "We want to be able to offer both things within the game, - simulation for the hardcore gamers, but also an arcade experience that you can truly pick up and play. I believe we've balanced that in Grid and I believe we're going to balance it in Formula One."

The game will arrive, eventually, next year on all formats

Source - http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=190514

...depressing part highlighted. How on earth can they honestly say that Grid has a handling model that appeals to both arcade fans and simulation fans. They cars in grid do not handle in a realistic manner in any way, shape or form. To suggest otherwise is plain daft.

All I can say is that with some major changes in attitude from Codemasters I will not be picking up any future F1 games, and I'm glad that I still have my copy of F1:CE, it may not be up to date, it may lack Spa and its certainly not perfect, but at least in a descent stab at a sim.



Scaff

 

[MS7XWDC]

 

[Scaff]

well, we just disagree on "what is sim handling" .... the F3 in GRID needs some work [still not sure if it's a handling or controller {wheel} issue].

TRD3 had a better physics engine that Grid has, at least it knows the meaning of the word understeer. Grid keeps the unrealistic fixed-centre point rotation that has always plagued the series. Its added in an massive arcade bias to the handling, with over effective brakes, unrealistic top speeds and almost no sense of connection between the car and the road. Tyre modelling is also just plain weird, with some cars suffering more than others (the BMW 320i being a good example).

All fine for an arcade racer, but to describe Grid as a 'sim' would, I suggest, not just be disagreeing with me, but the vast majority.

As it stands at the moment if Codies use the basic engine from Grid for an F1 game, then the current (and now over a year old) F1:CE will walk all over it in terms of realistic handling.

Compare the handling model of Grid with the likes of LFS, Richard Burns Rally, GTR, GPL and even GT5 and Enthusia and its simply does not stand up to scrutiny.

and I keep in mind that the GRID F3 car doesn't have a car setup area, something we'll have in F1.

All the set-up options in the world are not going to turn an arcade physics engine into a sim. That said we should have set-up in Grid if its even got pretensions to being a sim, after all every version of TOCA and Race Driver has had set-up options (as well as every Colin McRae title, including Dirt).

Codies used to produce some fine racing titles, with a reasonable sim leaning, but as the years have gone by they have got closer and closer to arcade titles. Its a shame, but it also does not bode well for the future of F1 titles as things stand at the moment.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

why would they put Pit lanes in a game without Pit Stops ?

I think you once again are missing the point. The question you should be asking yourself is why are there no pit stops in an automotive racing game that not only claims to offer a balance between simulation and arcade, but features the most famous of all endurance races, the 24 Hours of Le Mans?!?!?!

Oh yeah, that's right, because CM decided it was a good idea to speed up the clock by a factor of 60 , so that instead of a 24 hour endurance race, like in GT4, you get to finish it in only 24 minutes.

Are these more examples on why you are really happy to see Code Masters having exclusive rights to F1 games?

Heck, even F1CE allows you to run complete races offline, not only with pit stop, but with interactive pit stop at that.

I wonder how you are going to feel if or when CM's F1 game comes out with no pit stops and no full races? I doubt that will happen, but then again, they have yet to even mention the lack of pit stops in GRiD, nor mention the desire to add them to their upcoming F1 game.

the physics are great, IMHO for an F3 car

and I keep in mind that the GRID F3 car doesn't have a car setup area, something we'll have in F1.

Having no car setup option is yet another example on why you are happy that CM is making an F1 game?

Could you please post a link to the quote from CM saying their upcoming F1 game WILL have a car setup area?

Sure, I would be really surprised if it didn't, but then again, I'm sure a lot of people assumed CM was going to have a car setup area for all their cars in GRiD as well.

 

[MS7XWDC]

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

you know what, you guys are right: F1 by CM will suck.

I guess I'm not one of the guys, as I'm not saying it will suck, only that CM's recent games show little regard towards making simulation a top priority, and missing many of the features and options that have helped make F1CE such an excellent game, despite its flaws.

In addition, CM's comments on their upcoming F1 game suggest that they have no intention on making simulation a top priority, and in fact have already made the disclaimer that they want to get the game out ASAP, and as such will simply be adapting much of what they have already done with GRiD to their F1 game... which is hardly encouraging news... unless you are looking forward to a more arcade like F1 game.

same thing i told people about F1CE before it came out : don't buy it.

I guess I'm glad I didn't see your warning and or believe you, as I have gotten more use and enjoyment from F1CE than any recent driving game. 👍

 

[MS7XWDC]

In addition, CM's comments on their upcoming F1 game suggest that they have no intention on making simulation a top priority

here's your quote; maybe you should read up on F1 by CM:

I do think with an F1 game, getting the simulation aspect of it spot on is incredibly important. We have to cater for a possibly even wider audience than we do with a game like Grid &#8211; we need that full-on simulation for people who really like to get down to the nuts and bolts, doing all the very fine adjustments on their car.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285472

------------------------------------------------------------------

so, here's advice on F1 by CM: don't buy it if you are so certain that it won't be good enough for you.
I will hope for the best between now & release, then rent it / try it / judge it then. You certainly should do as you wish as well.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I do think with an F1 game, getting the simulation aspect of it spot on is incredibly important. We have to cater for a possibly even wider audience than we do with a game like Grid &#8211; we need that full-on simulation for people who really like to get down to the nuts and bolts, doing all the very fine adjustments on their car.

Well that certainly is better than what Rod Cousens, CEO of Code masters suggested in this quote:

I believe we've balanced that [simulation & arcade physics] in Grid and I believe we're going to balance it in Formula One."

Now anyone who has played GRiD, knows there is no option in GRiD that gives you what Rod Cousens claims is "Hardcore Simulation".

So if he is telling the truth and that their F1 game will use the same balance as seen in GRiD, then what does that tell you about what one can expect to see from their F1 game then?

In addition, also directly from Rod Cousens himself, it normally takes them at least two years to develop a game, but because they want their F1 game out next year, they will be using the same "assets" that have already been developed for GRiD... including the track graphics and car dynamics:

Q: The first game will be released next year. Talk us briefly through the development process that will be taking place over the coming months?

RC: It depends partly on format - portables are a lot easier as they don&#8217;t have such a rich graphical experience - but on dedicated consoles and PCs the way we write stems from what we call an &#8216;engine&#8217;, which for us is Codemasters&#8217; EGO Engine. This is what drives DiRT&#8482; and GRID&#8482;, so its pedigree on next-generation systems such as PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 is already proven. The Formula One games will have the benefit of this. It typically takes us two years to develop such a game, but a lot of the assets have already been created - we have a number of the tracks because they already exist in GRID&#8482;, and we have the basics of the car dynamics and handling.

So if this is the case, then it's also fair to evaluate the "car dynamics" and circuit graphics in GRiD when speculating on what their F1 game will be like. Which in that case is bad news unless you happen to be a fan of the car dynamics in GRiD.


You seem to be 100% positive that CM is going to make a better F1 game that what Studio Liverpool would have had they been able to come out with another F1 game. I suspect the reason you have found so much opposition, is that it&#8217;s very likely the vast majority disagrees with you in that regard, and that you are making some very large leaps of faith based on a great deal of speculation and not fact, nor any past experience on CM&#8217;s part in regards to making an F1 game.

 

[icelt]

Although I generally support MS7's committed enthusiasm I agree with DN and Scaff in that weight of the evidence (stated evolution of the DiRT & GRiD physics engine) and commentary (especially by the CEO) to this point by CM forces me to predict general failure, from a simulation perspective, for their initial F1 effort. In pains me to think this is the case, but like DN notes nothing CM does or doesn't do will force me to get rid of or stop enjoying F1:CE and the things that it does well. Not my preferred fall back position, but better than no fall back position at'tal (I'm looking at you MS-360)

 

[MS7XWDC]

DN, have you tried GRID PS3 with the same wheel you use for F1CE ? I might have missed it, but i didn't see where you said you tried GRID on PS3 & compared to F1CE.

because i just ran @ Istanbul on F1CE, no TC, and a car setup with Logi DFPro wheel.

then, ran @ Istanbul on GRID [F3 car, no setup] no assists with Logi DFPro wheel.

GRID feels much more like actual driving than F1CE does.
[and, yes, GRID's handling needs work, as I've maintained all along]

you predict failure, i'm willing to try it out, encouraged by the fact that CM's F3 feels better than F1CE's F1 car.

I'm done with the arguing, it feels like i'm trying to convince you to try it upon release. I don't care what you do, but I remain encouraged by the fact that CM's F3 feels better than F1CE's F1 car. Nothing you can do change my mind.

I'm done with the thread.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Nothing you can do change my mind.

It's unfortunate that you are unwilling to even consider having an open mind, thus open to the posibility of changing your opinion.



BTW: I have not predicted failure... in fact I predicted success based on the popularity of arcade style racing games like GRiD.

I also have not said anything about being unwilling to try it out. In fact, much of my opinions have been about not jumping to conclusions, like saying how happy you are that F1 games switched from Studio Liverpool to Codemasters based on contradictory data.

In fact if you go back in this thread you'll see the second post I made on this subject I said this:

It could be worse... EA could have gotten the license!

Still, considering the arcade like physics of both DiRT and GRiD, I'm certainly on the fence. On the other hand, I also really like playing DiRT and the demo for GRiD is fun. I just don't think that style of game translates well for a realistic F1 game. So hopefully they'll start from scratch as far as a new game engine. In terms of getting a wider audience, thus more support for future titles, multi-platform games are great. However, I'm also some what concerned over the possible compromises they'll have to make in order to make it a multi-platform release.

As they say... only time will tell.


Hopefully Codemasters will pay close attention to the many things that work well in F1CE and try and incorporate them into their game.

Seems pretty clear where I stand as far as not jumping to any conclusions before the game comes out. That doesn't mean I can't have concerns, and valid reasons for those concerns based on what Studio Liverpool has proven they are capable of doing, and what Codemasters has not proven what they are capable of doing.

 

[Scaff]

MS7XWDC I too have tried F1:CE and GRID with the same wheel and would have to say that I can't agree with you.

For me driving on the limit in GRID is just too safe and predictable, I never once felt that I would loose it under braking, understeer was not a concern at all. If I entered a corner too hot then a simple lift and dab of the brake and I could get it to step back on line. All relatively easy and with, for me, little feeling of being on the edge. A lot of this I put down to the age old flaw in CMs physics engines, the fixed rotation point which dominates yaw. As the cars always rotate around this point its relatively easy to get used to exactly how they will oversteer (as understeer just doesn't really enter into it), but what it is not is realistic.

I find that F1:CE is much more of a challenge to drive on the limit, with the cars far more eager to bite back if you overstepped the mark. Terminal understeer exists and as the rotation point moves as the load moves about the car its a lot harder to predict and also far less tolerant of rough control inputs.

I also don't understand why you want to abandon this thread simply because we disagree with you and give our reasons why. Is that not part of the function of a forum, debate and discussion?

What I would advise is to put a little more depth into your comparisons and perspectives, simply saying that "GRID feels much more like actual driving than F1CE does.", doesn't really give us anything to work on. How and why does it feel that way. I've explained my point of view, and would genuinely be interested to hear yours.

I also don't think that anyone here would be naive enough to suggest that CMs F1 release will fail, quite the opposite. Given the length of time it has been since any non-Sony console has had an F1 title it will sell like hot-cakes. What I believe most people are saying is that is will not be a hard-core sim, regardless of what promises CMs make about it.

I also will certainly try it (one thing CM are good at is getting demo's out) and would love to be surprised, but given the track record CMs have now with titles getting more and more arcade biased I am understandably very sceptical.

I hope that you do re-vist this thread and read this, of course it is your choice to post in here again or not. However be aware that GT Planet is a place that strongly encourages informed and in-depth discussion and debate, we just like it that way. It provokes thought and while we most certainly don't always agree with each other, that has nothing to do with not repecting each others point of view. For a classic example take a look at the Creation vs Evolution debate thread or on a lighter discussion (by still argues just as strongly) the GT4 vs Enthusia thread.


Regards

Scaff

 

[icelt]

Well I'm on record in predicting that it will fail as a simulation and I'm going to stick with that. I'm also confident it will be a well done and mostly fun "driving/racing game", as evidenced by DiRT and GRiD, that many will enjoy.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Codemaster's F1 FAQ

3: When will the game be out?
During the 2009 season

4: Sim or arcade?
We can't comment on that yet.

So less than a year of development time and no confirmation on an option for true simulation.

Combined with what Rod Cousens has already said about using already existing "assets" from GRiD and in regards to balancing between simulation and arcade physics - just like they did with GRiD, this does not bode well for the F1 sim fans.


BTW: There are some really interesting threads and comments about what people want and don't want to see in this upcoming game on CM's official forum.

 

[Biggles]

One of the problems I have in evaluating the "realism" of an F1 game, is that the handling of F1 cars IRL is clearly so far away from normal street cars (even very high performance ones). Whereas I can make a reasonable guess as to how close a Ferarri 430's handling in a game is to that of the car IRL, I'm not sure I can make a similar assumption about the handling of F1 cars in a game.

Going back to F1:CE after playing GT5P a lot, there is a very noticeable difference in feel: the cars in GT5P feel like they have weight & the weight moves around under acceleration, braking & cornering. In F1:CE the cars feel comparatively weightless - they corner & hug the ground perfectly, until... they don't - you push too hard & the back comes out with no warning. This is quite unlike "normal" cars in GT5P. The thing is: I suspect that that is, in fact, very much the way F1 cars react IRL: the car is pushed beyond its limit, & it just breaks away.

What I think F1:CE models very well (with a FFB wheel) is the bumpy, shakey ride of a F1 car at high speed - not some exaggerated, flashy graphic-effects rendering - but the actual feel of being in the car. This is completely absent from GT5P's modelling of the F2007, which, in spite of the graphic detail, seems totally unreal.

I haven't tried the F3 cars in GRID, but my suspicion, based on the other cars in the demo, is that CM has modelled a sense of weight to the handling which may feel more "real" than F1:CE, but may not be that true to life.

In summary: in direct contrast to F1:CE, GRID is all about style over substance. Nowhere can this be better seen than in the way damage is modelled in the two games.

Sorry for rambling...

 

[MS7XWDC]