CODEMASTERS acquire F1 Racing License from FOM (merged)

[Pepsi0]

That can't be possible because they haven't started the developing process yet, they are still designing the game because only a few things have been announced for the real 2009 f1 season.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

That can't be possible because they haven't started the developing process yet, they are still designing the game because only a few things have been announced for the real 2009 f1 season.

Nothing's impossible, and they started development months ago, and based on comments from the top man at CM, they apparently are using the same game engine used in DiRT and GriD (which for sim-racing fans was alarming news), thus allowing them to release the game quickly.

As for the real 2009 F1 season, what is left to announce that would hold up a game past March?

The schedule has been set, the teams are set (although some still think Prodrive has a shot of making it), and with the exceptions of a couple cars, all the seats are taken.

I'll try and dig up the source for the estimated March release, but I see no reason why that should be considered impossible?

 

[JamboGT]

Well only two of the teams cars have been announced, Ferrari and Toyota, so they will have not had any modelling done so far.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Well only two of the teams cars have been announced, Ferrari and Toyota, so they will have not had any modelling done so far.

You don't honestly think CM is going to model each real F1 car from 2009 other than very basic attributes that would have been provided months ago and that many people have already had access to for a long time, let alone think Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, etc would even allow them to have that kind of access to their cars?

If unsure, I'd suggest you play DiRT and GRiD and based on that exact same game engine, estimate the accuracy of the driving physics of the real cars in those games and what we might expect to see in their F1 game.

 

[Pepsi0]

Yes.

And the Grid/Dirt engine thing was announced months ago, when they first got the license, so that's very old news.

The reason that they can't release it in March is because they are still designing the game.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

And the Grid/Dirt engine thing was announced months ago, when they first got the license, so that's very old news.

That's exactly my point, so why did you say it can't be possible because they haven't started the developing process yet???

They made it quite clear that the key assets for the game were already developed from GRiD and DiRT, thus allowing them to get the game out quickly... and as you pointed out, that was months ago.

In fact, just doing a quick browseing through some of the threads on Codemaster's own forum for this game, there is talk from the executive producer of an upcoming beta for the PC version.

 

[Pepsi0]

That's exactly my point, so why did you say it can't be possible because they haven't started the developing process yet???

They made it quite clear that the key assets for the game were already developed from GRiD and DiRT, thus allowing them to get the game out quickly... and as you pointed out, that was months ago.

In fact, just doing a quick browseing through some of the threads on Codemaster's own forum for this game, there is talk from the executive producer of an upcoming beta for the PC version.

Yes, I said they announced that, they didn't actually start work on it because they were designing, and still are.

 

[JamboGT]

I realise they will have modelled the car physics and various handling quirks of the cars but what I was referring to earlier was not so much this but the actual cars models.

Of the two cars that have been launched so far there are quite obvious differences and the new rules mean different solutions are going to be found car to car.

It would irresponsible for CM to go with some sort of generic F1 car shape when the differences are going to be more obvious than for seasons.

As it is I do not expect this game to be a good F1 simulation, it being based on the EGO engine from Dirt and Grid, but I hope I am wrong.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Yes, I said they announced that, they didn't actually start work on it because they were designing, and still are.

You are sounding like we are going around in circles, or at the very least playing a game of semantics.

So to be clear, please explain what you define as being part of the development process and why you believe they haven’t even started yet, and what source are you using that suggests they can't or have not started.

Outside tracks, teams, car body designs, and drivers, based on what they did with GriD and DiRT, what additional data that unlike those is apparently not available to CM and why would they not be able to use that info which has been available for a long time to start developing it?

If I am sounding hard-nosed, it's because you seem to be dismissing a lot of pertinent facts just for the sake of arguing.

I doubt it will come out in March, but to even consider for a moment that they have not yet even started the developing process is rather absurd. Just visit CM's own forums and you'll clearly see that is not at all the case.

 

[Pepsi0]

Here's the source:email.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

It would irresponsible for CM to go with some sort of generic F1 car shape when the differences are going to be more obvious than for seasons.

Body shape is relatively easy to add to an existing game engine, so that would not hold up development, and with the game engine already in place, theoretically the same is true for any performance attributes... but there in lies the reason many sim-race fans are worried about this game:

As it is I do not expect this game to be a good F1 simulation, it being based on the EGO engine from Dirt and Grid, but I hope I am wrong.

Agreed, I too hope our expectations are proven wrong, but based on the game engine they are using, I'm not holding my breathe. That said, I still thouroghly enjoyed playing both these games, but compared to F1CE, not so much.


EDIT: (just noticed)

Here's the source:email.

💡 Uh, the World is flat, here's my source:email.

 

[GT4 genius]

I highly doubt this game will be out as early as March. If it is out that early I almost guarantee that the game will disappoint. Not only should they wait until all cars are released to begin modeling but they should also wait for a few testing results possibly even until after the Melbourne Grand Prix so as they have an idea of the lap times of the cars, especially since the performance of the cars is going to be radically different this year. It would be annoying if laps times in the game were almost 10 seconds away from the real life times.

I would say a May - July time frame for release would be more realistic. Although in theory they could throw generic cars into the game without much detail or without realistic performance specs and get it out at the end of March just to gain sales as it could be advertised along with the launch of the real season. And then use free downloads to bring the game up to the level of detail we've come to expect from previous F1 titles. However I highly doubt codemaster will do it that way.

 

[Nicksfix]

If Codemasters carries over its game physics from "Grid" , I feel this will be a flop.Now if they take a page from Studio Liverpools "Formula One Championship Edition" , it should be well recieved. F1CE , is not a perfect game , but it is by-far the best representation of F1 racing we have to date.

 

[Robin]

I think CM will have an easier time modelling the cars because they happen to have just got the licence when the F1 cars have become a lot simpler in their appearance. I hope they don't take this as an opportunity to slack off though!

Studio Liverpool had it a lot harder in the visuals department doing all those aero bits! A game based on last season would have been even harder!

Do CM only have the licence for this years cars or can they include past models or maybe classic F1 cars as extars?

Robin.

 

[Ardius]

I think CM will have an easier time modelling the cars because they happen to have just got the licence when the F1 cars have become a lot simpler in their appearance. I hope they don't take this as an opportunity to slack off though!

Studio Liverpool had it a lot harder in the visuals department doing all those aero bits! A game based on last season would have been even harder!

Do CM only have the licence for this years cars or can they include past models or maybe classic F1 cars as extars?

Robin.

The license covers the current season usually, for previous season's cars and tracks, you'd have to go to the relevant people to gain the licenses (so, McLaren for their cars or asking Jonathan Palmer if they can use Brands Hatch, etc).

 

[MS7XWDC]

Do CM only have the licence for this years cars or can they include past models or maybe classic F1 cars as extras?

Robin.

CM cannot use 2008 cars, but might be able to include a few "bonus" / "classic" cars for time trials only [as F1CE did / could not "race" them, however]

If Codemasters carries over its game physics from "Grid" , I feel this will be a flop.

CM have said they will not uses GRID's handling, as GRID was not aimed at SIM fans.

 

[Ardius]

CM cannot use 2008 cars, but might be able to include a few "bonus" / "classic" cars for time trials only [as F1CE did / could not "race" them, however]

They were used as only bonus time trial cars because they probably couldn't find a good way to implement them in the game in a race mode that would make sense beyond one-make races.
Codemasters can use the 2008 cars if they wished, but they'd have to ask each team and likely pay for the license for each one, same goes for tracks, like I just said in the post above. They could use them for racing and whatever else they wanted depending on the terms of the license with the teams themselves, it has nothing to do with the FIA, Sony or anyone else.

 

[MS7XWDC]

They were used as only bonus time trial cars because they probably couldn't find a good way to implement them in the game in a race mode that would make sense beyond one-make races.
Codemasters can use the 2008 cars if they wished, but they'd have to ask each team and likely pay for the license for each one, same goes for tracks, like I just said in the post above. They could use them for racing and whatever else they wanted depending on the terms of the license with the teams themselves, it has nothing to do with the FIA, Sony or anyone else.

trust me, I don't make things up. CM's license does not include season 2008: http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4816990&postcount=14

that's the Executive Producer of F1 2009 talking Whether it was CM's decision or FOM's, so I'm not even sure CM could throw money @ the FOM to use the 2008 season - as it is now, it is not permitted, hence I stand by what I said: CM cannot use 2008 cars.

I fairly sure that the "bonus classics" were not permitted in races due to the license, too.

 

[danjama]

I would love a "Classic F1" game where you could play many of the old seasons with all cars and tracks correct. That would be cool. In fact, a "Classic Racing" would be cool with all different types of racing from over the years. I can dream. I loved GTL but wish it had more scope and was on console.

 

[MS7XWDC]

Classic F1 would be very neat, indeed

 

[Suede53]

I would love a "Classic F1" game where you could play many of the old seasons with all cars and tracks correct. That would be cool. In fact, a "Classic Racing" would be cool with all different types of racing from over the years. I can dream. I loved GTL but wish it had more scope and was on console.

👍 I would love to see an updated version of GT Legends or Grand Prix Legends appear on a console. I keep hoping that GT will deliver on the classic racing front ...

As far as CM goes, I didn't mind TOCA 2, but the physics weren't great. TOCA 3 was a bit too much with some of the race modes they included (monster trucks? ). While I can appreciate the eye-candy that Dirt and Grid have to offer, I just can't say I'm overly optimistic about what they're going to do with the F1 license. I'm afraid that F1:CE set the bar pretty high for me. Like Nicksfix and many others have said, it's not perfect but when you consider it was a launch title and done by a relatively small studio, it's very impressive.

 

[JamboGT]

I just got GRID at last and if they are using this engine I am, to say the least, not expecting much. Its not even that good looking just prodigious use of lighting effects.

I know they say they will not be using the same handling but if the engine is like thgis well how different can it be.

 

[Ardius]

trust me, I don't make things up. CM's license does not include season 2008: http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4816990&postcount=14

that's the Executive Producer of F1 2009 talking Whether it was CM's decision or FOM's, so I'm not even sure CM could throw money @ the FOM to use the 2008 season - as it is now, it is not permitted, hence I stand by what I said: CM cannot use 2008 cars.

I fairly sure that the "bonus classics" were not permitted in races due to the license, too.

Thats referring to the FIA license, which only hold rights to the "F1" name. All the copyrights for the cars are held by the teams/manufacturers, all copyrights for the circuits are held by whoever owns the circuits, copyrights for the drivers are held by the drivers themselves, etc. The one thing they can't do is make a "2008 F1 championship" because they did not pay for that year of the license (as Sony's ownership of the license ended after 2008).

They can use the cars, just like Polyphony can use the 2007 Ferrari - it has nothing to do with the FIA or FOM or anyone else other than the teams themselves, just as long as they don't use the words "F1" or "Formula 1" and "2008" together. (except for the car names, obviously, like the F1.08)

 

[Pepsi0]

I hope they've modelled Spa, Monza, Monaco, and Singapore (don't know the track name) well. My four favourite F1 tracks need to be perfect!

 

[MS7XWDC]

Thats referring to the FIA license, which only hold rights to the "F1" name. All the copyrights for the cars are held by the teams/manufacturers, all copyrights for the circuits are held by whoever owns the circuits, copyrights for the drivers are held by the drivers themselves, etc. The one thing they can't do is make a "2008 F1 championship" because they did not pay for that year of the license (as Sony's ownership of the license ended after 2008).

They can use the cars, just like Polyphony can use the 2007 Ferrari - it has nothing to do with the FIA or FOM or anyone else other than the teams themselves, just as long as they don't use the words "F1" or "Formula 1" and "2008" together. (except for the car names, obviously, like the F1.08)

I'm sorry, but when I see CM say "We don't have the licensing rights to use anything from 2008." I tend to agree with them, since they are making the game

no matter who's licensing rights they are, CM do not have any Season 2008 rights, so to me that means they cannot use any 2008 cars.

so, when you say "They can use the cars" I have to disagree with you

 

[Robin]

Even if the game is excellent the 09 cars look fugly and no amount of polish on CM's part can make the orginial article look any better. Its a pity this game didnt come out last year.

Robin.

 

[Mad94d]

Even if the game is excellent the 09 cars look fugly and no amount of polish on CM's part can make the orginial article look any better. Its a pity this game didnt come out last year.

Robin.

Yeah, Would've been good if it came out last year. As you say the 2009 cars look rubbish. 2008 car's looked much better.

 

[amar212]

If nothing else, because of new rules they'll have less job with modelling and rendering, since bodies of the cars are much simple this season

 

[Robin]

If nothing else, because of new rules they'll have less job with modelling and rendering, since bodies of the cars are much simple this season

Yeah but as I said earlier in this thread I hope they don't use that as an excuse!

I think CM will have an easier time modelling the cars because they happen to have just got the licence when the F1 cars have become a lot simpler in their appearance. I hope they don't take this as an opportunity to slack off though!

Studio Liverpool had it a lot harder in the visuals department doing all those aero bits! A game based on last season would have been even harder!

 

[Ardius]

I'm sorry, but when I see CM say "We don't have the licensing rights to use anything from 2008." I tend to agree with them, since they are making the game

no matter who's licensing rights they are, CM do not have any Season 2008 rights, so to me that means they cannot use any 2008 cars.

so, when you say "They can use the cars" I have to disagree with you

You realise that can mean "We haven't bothered asking the teams for the licenses"? It doesn't automatically mean they have been prevented from using them, it can mean they haven't bothered and aren't going to bother, it does cost them money and they would have to weigh up whether it would really improve the game or not.

The FIA has nothing to do with the copyrights of cars, the F2007 in GT5 and the appearence of historic F1 cars in various other games is proof enough.

They can use the historic cars, if they ever bothered to obtain the licenses, but yes, they clearly haven't tried and there aren't going to be any. My reason for arguing this point is that you made it out like they can never license them because of the FIA, which is not the case.