Commentary: Gran Turismo Needs a Greater Overall Racing Presence... to an Extent

  • Thread starter JohnBM01
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sorry to bring this back, but....

When I first saw this thread, I thought to myself, "Humph. sounds interesting.". then I read the responses to the thread and I thought that it would be a decent idea. not anything extraordinary, but okay, I guess.

then I Bought TOCA Race Driver 3.

Then I played it.

and then A thought crept into my mind while playing a session;

"Do we need another TOCA? Seriously?"

Don't get me wrong, we all have our own personal wishlists for Gran Turismo, and we all wish that GT can do this and do that and have this and have that and etc., etc. but let's appreciate Gran Turismo for what it is; a great driving simulator that offers us hours upon hours of great fun. and yes, I Know that there are fictional drivers in TOCA, but there's a rumored FIA World GT Championship game and someone has to make a American LeMans Series or Rolex Sports Car Series Game at some point, so you'll get your Tom Kristensen fix at some point, will you, Earth?;)

GT5 needs the AI cars to be driven by AI drivers. Otherwise you got some sort of Burnout Paradise world where cars drive themselves!

Now if the AI cars get AI drivers I think they won't be quite as interesting if they are all fictional.
 
To the OP, you'd better look at Codemasters games then, because GT is, and should never be, about racing careers and teams.

I won't buy GT5 if there isn't a livery editor, simple as.
It's certain you won't be be buying it then. Good, that's one more copy on the shelves for somebody else.
 
To the OP, you'd better look at Codemasters games then, because GT is, and should never be, about racing careers and teams.


It's certain you won't be be buying it then. Good, that's one more copy on the shelves for somebody else.
It gets a little old racing against just cars, it would be nice to have names and teammates.


Livery Editor has already been basically confirmed by PD.
 
I agree, John. These ideas should extent a bit more. The livery editor similar to Race Driver GRID and PGR4 would be nice and the AI drivers similar to Race Driver GRID should go too as well. Over the years, Gran Turismo isn't realistic as it's supposed to be, that's why I'm frustrated with GT5 Prologue's AI and the lack of depth even though it's an extended demo. When the full game itself comes with your ideas, it'll probably give us more experience than it's on GT5 Prologue.
 
take easy guys... this way PD team will never finish GT5... i agree with a lot of people says here, but i think all this changes are too much for GT5... who knows GT6 or 7...

I agree with a lot of things.. but we need to be careful in not to turn GT series in a RPG racing sim... i mean.. too much details , variables , choices and etcetera...
 
take easy guys... this way PD team will never finish GT5... i agree with a lot of people says here, but i think all this changes are too much for GT5... who knows GT6 or 7...

I agree with a lot of things.. but we need to be careful in not to turn GT series in a RPG racing sim... i mean.. too much details , variables , choices and etcetera...

HEEEEELLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOO, Darlin'!

I don't know if this is against The AUP or anything like that, but is 'ms turismo' in favor of becoming 'mrs turismo'?:sly:;)
 
HEEEEELLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOO, Darlin'!

I don't know if this is against The AUP or anything like that, but is 'ms turismo' in favor of becoming 'mrs turismo'?:sly:;)

that ms do not means mrs... it´s my state abreviation.. ( Mato Grosso do Sul - MS ) in brazil... hehehe... kind weird i know.. but whatever, i´m confident with my gender..
 
I'm going to need to see videos on GRID on YouTube to see... then again, I think I've seen a LITTLE bit of the livery process on GRID. I still need to "study" GRID to know what most of you are talking about with this game in regards to something similar for GT5. And as far as "PD never releasing GT5," have patience. Until PD folds or goes bankrupt with no one looking to take over GT, then the game WILL be released. So have some more patience and don't resort to low blows like this.
 
I'm going to need to see videos on GRID on YouTube to see... then again, I think I've seen a LITTLE bit of the livery process on GRID. I still need to "study" GRID to know what most of you are talking about with this game in regards to something similar for GT5. And as far as "PD never releasing GT5," have patience. Until PD folds or goes bankrupt with no one looking to take over GT, then the game WILL be released. So have some more patience and don't resort to low blows like this.

The livery system in GRID is very simple; there are set designs/graphics that all have a 3 color palette.
GRID2008-10-0614-01-50-24.jpg


Then you get to choose the 3 color palette for the livery. And the number too.
Bo_GRiD1.jpg


Then sponsors are added and are placed in an places chosen by CM during the designing of GRID.

And i think GT5 should be like GRID's beginning. The freelancing bit, until a high amount of money is won and payed to you by the team your racing for then you make your own team and begin to do your own races for your own team,think of Gil de Ferran and De Ferran Motorsports, sort of. On your own team, you start with no livery, no number and no sponsors. The more races you do, the more sponsors want to get a sponsor your team. You get a livery and number when you start a team, but you don't have a lot of money it cant be very fancy. I'm bound to think of more ideas soon...
 
take easy guys... this way PD team will never finish GT5... i agree with a lot of people says here, but i think all this changes are too much for GT5... who knows GT6 or 7...

I agree with a lot of things.. but we need to be careful in not to turn GT series in a RPG racing sim... i mean.. too much details , variables , choices and etcetera...
Just to put things in perspective, the things being mentioned as far as making GT5 progress like real life wouldn't be hard to implement. Creating a Career Mode would be simple, setting up a structure of limited access to cars in a tiered system, so that at low level, the cars would all be street cars you could apply basic upgrades to and tune. Tracks would be simpler, such as Tsukuba. At higher levels, they would go from tuners to pro race cars to high performance race cars on the order of WRC, Super GT, ALMS and Le Mans. Tracks would be much more challenging, ranging from Trial Mountain to the Nurburgring. Races would be arranged according to a calendar, prize money set, achievements such as points standings attracting increasingly lucrative sponsorships, all this wouldn't be too hard to do.

A livery editor would be an additional challenge, figuring out how to get complex graphics to work on 16 cars online, but not super hard. Some games have achieved this already.

Then there's weather and the day/night time cycle, both fairly difficult to do right.

Damage... okay, this would be hard, both from a technical standpoint, and to getting as much as a hundred car makers to agree on a standard.

Just to put things in perspective. I really need to rework my little tale on how I see Career Mode playing out in GT5, if they implement it.
 
Honestly I don't get why people keep saying putting things like this will take PD longer to release GT5. We don't know how far a long they are or when they plan to release it. Day/Night cycles wouldn't be as hard since they would only need them on 3-4 races(based on the amount of endurance races in GT4), for the others they could just have a random time set or make races at a certain time.
 
And i think GT5 should be like GRID's beginning. The freelancing bit, until a high amount of money is won and payed to you by the team your racing for then you make your own team and begin to do your own races for your own team,think of Gil de Ferran and De Ferran Motorsports, sort of. On your own team, you start with no livery, no number and no sponsors. The more races you do, the more sponsors want to get a sponsor your team. You get a livery and number when you start a team, but you don't have a lot of money it cant be very fancy. I'm bound to think of more ideas soon...
If you want GRiD, but it. Why do all games have to be like others before them?
 
I do not see any point in TOCA, SEGA GT or GRID "Team and Sponsors" philosophy for GT games.

Overall scope and diversity of GT games just do not allow such concept, because it would seriously compromise main GT philosophy - driving, maintaince and passion for the cars.

GT games were never about building your "team" and obtaining "sponsors" in order to progress. Although some other games used that concept - SEGA GT2002 being one of the games that used it almost flawlessly - it remains useable for games with small amount of cars and different overall concept.

All GT games HAD some kind of "Team" logic in higher-level races, especially in venues of various GT Championships where you had to race 10-race venues with multiple lap and tyre/fuel management. That races allowed you to focus on one car, learn it's strengths and weaknesses and use it 110% in order to win.

But classic "Let's Build a Racing Team" logic would compromise the main idea about using different cars all the time in order to learn to drive them and to enjoy great diversity of concepts that automotive industry has given us through last century.

I'm almost 100% sure - but I do not know that, this is purely speculaton based on my preumptions - that final GT5 will ofer "Team" lgic for online community. It will not be part of single-plyaer game but only multiplayer, where you will be able to race with your mates in some kind of "Team".

Will "sponsors" of any kind become part of such perspective remains to be seen, but I remain deeply confident that "team and sponsors" logic should be left out from GT Mode of the game since it does not belong there whatsoever.
 
What John is saying in his 1st post about "racing look" on cars is spot on... at the moment we race the cars "as they came out of the factory"... yet if you goto a race day or something on any track... the drivers/teams will have customised their car with numbers (at the very least) and names/paint jobs to show who they are when they're driving.

I would quite like it if I could make a "yeti" livery with some choices - and then whenever I race my car I can choose to have my livery applied - and that applied to whatever car I was racing...

C.
 
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I do not see any point in TOCA, SEGA GT or GRID "Team and Sponsors" philosophy for GT games.
Well, Kazunori wants to capture as much of the motorsports world as he can. His dream has always been to create a virtual racing life of some sort, and I can't imagine anything greater than my concept of Career Mode. Besides, Gran Turismo has never been about drift competitions, online communities and league building. And I can't conceive of some kind of racing league builder, which Kaz discussed before, that isn't a copy to one extent or another of real life racing leagues, which is like my concept of Season Mode. And with my dream concept of Gran Turismo, there is still traditional Arcade and GT Mode which gives you the old school gameplay everyone's familiar with, allowing you to grab a car at random and race, and collect all the cars you want.

Forza has slowly been catching up with Gran Turismo in all its aspects. I've wondered if some of the Turn 10 team hasn't been reading our posts here, because some of my ideas for Gran Turismo ended up in Forza and FM2. And you know that if Forza ends up featuring something like Career Mode and GT doesn't have it, that will be a pretty big feather in Microsoft's cap. One thing Gran Turismo has been about is pushing the boundaries of motorsports gaming, and this is one boundary I want to see expanded in GT first.
 
I have to agree with you I think the designer's for the FORZA series read and collect information from GT forums . They are taking advantage of the fact that when GT fans post ideas that they which would be included in upcoming GT titles MS they almost imediately put the ideas into their next FMS release. they still cant be perfect as polyphony digital when it comes to the better game over all.

GT fan for ever.
 
Well, Kazunori wants to capture as much of the motorsports world as he can. His dream has always been to create a virtual racing life of some sort, and I can't imagine anything greater than my concept of Career Mode. ..

I think his and PD's view isn't limited to motorsports, because they represent only a tiny fraction of overall content and complexity which automotive industry boosts in it's world presence.

Seeing Gran Turismo as just another racing/driving game - which are strictly limited just to some kind of motorsport-presence - is plain wrong.

From the very first GT game the philosophy went way beyond "just" racing - it is clear that main guidelines were to captivate the atractivity of overall automotive industry, cars as almost persons - not just objects - and idea of maintenance and enjoyment of the car, not just plain racing.

Oil Change process, Car Wash procedure, Used Cars sections, attention to detail such as true names of colors, GT Auto Shop in total, mileage counter for every car, chassis refreshment and recycling, Photo Mode and B-Spec clearly points that GT offers more than motorsport.

Although I completely understand your ideas and condone them in some way, I remain confident that any kind of "career" - outside the concept that GT uniquely offers for more than decade now - would compromise the basic T series philosophy.

However, I repeat that I can see some kind of Team-concept to exist in online community and I presume that building a such community will start with GT5.

Somehow I also think that many developers - including Turn10 - can come here and take ideas based on "what people would like to see in Gran Turismo", hoping it will produce a better product for themselves. BUt, one thing I can be certain of is that GT5 will again come with content that no other game in genre will have, as it was the case from the 1998.

Main thing about Gran Turismo is that it lacks many things that other racing games have - but all other racing games lacks what Gran Turismo has. And it is the main reason why Gran Turismo is the most special driving/racing game in the world - and I'd like it stays that way.
 
As I said originally about this, if they went that far about it, why not just make a team management game? Surely that would be more beneficial in terms of production time and profit? I doubt people would complain about a seperate game if it used the same game engine but focused on team building/management.

I don't feel GT particularly needs it, I would like to see it and wouldn't complain but I think I would prefer it as a seperate game or more interestingly, a game expansion?
 
Seeing Gran Turismo as just another racing/driving game - which are strictly limited just to some kind of motorsport-presence - is plain wrong.
Well, the reason I think my Career Mode idea would work so well is that the basic pattern for it is laid out in GT Mode already. In GT Mode, you start out with a small sum of credits, somewhere around 20,000 Cr, unless you resort to a money boost option. That's enough for you to buy a decent new car of moderate performance, a high quality used car of better performance with a small amount remaining which might get you a few upgrades, or an older used car of good performance which can be upgraded much more.

You then enter the beginner races and try to win. Prize money is decent enough, but the real prizes are additional cars. Upon winning the entire series, you usually are rewarded with bonus credits, as well as an additional prize car.

This opens up more races with higher performance requirements and a stiffer challenge. Rewards are higher, prize cars are better, and usually good for entering in the new races. If you play it right, you might not need to buy a car for some time, as you win prize cars which are necessary for certain races. In GT4, I only bought cars I wanted to collect for a few months in gametime, and used prize cars almost exclusively to progress through the game.

Invariably, you'll have to buy a car to compete in a certain race series, or you'll just want to open up and fly in a serious racing machine, and by then, you should have enough credits to do much of what you want. Along with that, the race series will be getting dramatically more advanced, requiring you to have race cars of certain types, though the rewards get much greater at this level.

And on it goes, until ultimately you're racing Formula 1 cars.

Okay, so why even bother with the notion of Career Mode or Season Mode? Well, it's because I want that Next Level in Gran Turismo. It's not just race mod, or a livery editor. Those are very nifty, and very appropriate for on- or offline racing to establish your identity, and to give you some "wow," pride or cool factor. But what Career Mode does is put some real substance or "meat" into the traditional GT Mode. It gives you the chance to be a Mario Andretti, Colin McRae, Michael Schumacher or Mattias Ekström at the very start of their racing experience. You start at ground level with the hope of being one of the rising stars in motorsports. Not because you're the game owner, but because you must prove your worth by competing against a number of other (virtual) drivers, all sriving to win points and attract the attention of lucrative sponsors. This kind of racing arena would give all of us a sense of what it is to carve a name for ourselves in the annals of racing history, as all the great drivers did, by starting from humble beginnings and working our bumpers off to find the winner in each of us and be better than everyone else.

And like I posted previously, Season and Career Mode aren't intended to replace Arcade and GT Mode. They would still be there, and always will. This sort of thing is very ambitious, but would actually be the easiest to design and code of all the ambitious things Gran Turismo might want to be. It would be the same thing as GT Mode, but with leagues, a calendar, racing rules, points, and names for the A.I. drivers.

Someone is eventually going to do this, and I'm hoping that Kazunori-dono gives it to us first.
 
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From my perspective I am open to GT5 offering as much variety as possible. However the heart of the game which is simulation mode should be as solid and enjoyable as possible. I think that simulation mode could be designed and organized in a much more usefull and perhaps deeper way then ever before. This should then lead to a better racing feel and or structure. They could taken certain elements from all of the GT series along with many new ones to make the best events possible. It would be nice if all of the begineer, advance, semi pro, pro events could somehow be linked together. What I mean by this is that they would be easy to identify and find. For instance many of the individual car make races ( dealership races ) would be considered easy. Where I am headed is that it would allow a person if they so choose to complete most if not all of the begineer races in the game before they progressed in to more advance races. Some special events and even a few endurance races might be considered begineers. With as many differnt classes of cars that GT4 offered they could and should offer dozens of races series for differnt race classes. However this might tend to emmulate TOCA. The main problem I would have with season race mode is the A.I. level. At this point in time the game has yet to present us with an A.I. that would be enjoyable or competive in an environment like that. I do hope that online has lots of feature that would allow us to be very creative in organizing races and multiple racing series. With a good online system ( hopefully great ), better simulation events, hopefully in game race generator mode for arcade and online use I will happy. Visable Race Mods / Livery editor will also be a big plus. Damage would be nice but no matter how it is done would be toned down. With a game as enjoyable to look at it would be superb if the sounds could match. If graphics is a 10 and current sounds a 5 or less, how great the sounds would be if they was at least an 8. Rest assured that GT5 will be great and I am sure that any down falls in certain areas will be made up for in others.
 
On the post above : I thought the sound in GT5:Prologue were pretty damn good - much improved over previous offerings.

C.
 
If you want GRiD, but it. Why do all games have to be like others before them?

I already have it so HA! :lol:

No, i just want GT5's SIMULATION Mode to simulate real life racing just a little bit more. The team aspect in the GT series DNE. (Does Not Exist)
 
for me what PD need is to listen our recomendations/ideas, now i think gt5 will be perfect if it has body mods, in the functional way(ground effects kit, canards, splitters, spoilers and Cf parts) ..not silly bodykits like Nfs :crazy: i mean functional mods, so your car may look like..as an example the Gt5P custom cars, and some paint/vynils editor or at least change the colour of the car after you buy it.

Online Used car shop, that may be good too! buying a unique car due to good tuning and custom vinylwork may be something good..

about sounds, i think the sounds in gt5P are pretty darn good, maybe more v8 roar cuz cars like Tuned ford gt/Z06 sound more like a small v6.

about damage..damage will be a great unless you have to pay to repair your car :nervous:

online teams will be RG, it should be cool to form a team with your mates and all cars have same decoration 👍, private rooms is something good too

The GT mode, the only thing i wanna change to Gt mode is that, the possibility of using your name, so in the grid position and in the tournaments instead of the Ford Gt 40 (`07) winning the race it should say John Smith/Ford GT40..

and in the tracks section i can live without a track editor, but the day/night and weather change is a must be...

but hey, its just my opinion, maybe at the end its just another gt4 with better graphics :nervous::nervous:...hope not...
 
I'm with you, chepu. 👍

Many of us wonder how much GT5 is just going to be GT4, and how much will be new. There will definitely be new stuff, but what? On the one hand, Prologue is a lot like GT4 with better physics, and I enjoy Prologue very much, so much that I still race it far more than my other games. If GT5 was quite a lot like GT4 but with some nice online features, I'd be disappointed. For a few minutes anyway. ;)

But I am confident that GT5 is going to be one heck of a racing experience because of all the extra things from real life Kazunori will insist on including in the game. Just a little over three more weeks to get that first glimpse of glory...
 
I agree with the principal suggestion of this thread. Besides damage, weather etc, to further enhance the experience, my suggestions:

Flags
Full flags please! I have never seen a race day without marshals and flags.

Maintenance
Tyres, brakes etc. should deteriorate over use. An enhancement of the "car wash" feature of previous GT's could be a "service" option (cleans filters, oil change, spark plugs etc.).

Radio
Remove the option to remove the text overlays and have relevant information relayed by a radio/pit-board, just like real life!

Driver View
Option to remove virtual hands and wheel please, but keep the interiors entirely otherwise.

Aids
The grid line-up pre-race should show who has aids (and which) enabled, and more points should be awarded to those who drive without them.

Very little chance of any of this, but suggestions make no harm I guess!
 
I agree with the principal suggestion of this thread. Besides damage, weather etc, to further enhance the experience, my suggestions:

Flags
Full flags please! I have never seen a race day without marshals and flags.

Maintenance
Tyres, brakes etc. should deteriorate over use. An enhancement of the "car wash" feature of previous GT's could be a "service" option (cleans filters, oil change, spark plugs etc.).

Radio
Remove the option to remove the text overlays and have relevant information relayed by a radio/pit-board, just like real life!

Driver View
Option to remove virtual hands and wheel please, but keep the interiors entirely otherwise.

Aids
The grid line-up pre-race should show who has aids (and which) enabled, and more points should be awarded to those who drive without them.

Very little chance of any of this, but suggestions make no harm I guess!

The first two I agree with, radios/pitboards are unecessary but would be cool perhaps as a part of a "professional" mode. The only problem with this is, how easy would it be to read a pitboard on the screen? Not entirely practical in a video game methinks. The radio would be interesting but would break the GT tradition of no speech (other than the brief amounts in the tutorials on GT4P). It would be cool to have a team principal/race engineer mode online though, especially if we could race 24 hour races or endurance races online. Giving specific data to do with engine temps, time differences, opponent strategies, etc would be great 👍 If it worked in conjunction with a driver change system, where the drivers not driving could speak to the driver in the car and give them information it would be awesome.
Driver view, thats personal taste.
Aids, I don't think people should be punished or rewarded for using/not using them but when we do get online lobbies, they should let us set the regulations for our races so we can decide what aids are allowed, etc. (maybe even detailed regulations such as power to weight ratios rather than just using the PP levels).
 
Making it feel more like you're actually racing is the main new feature I've wanted since.... GT2.

I've got mainly two problems with the way it is now:

1. When you win a race, it doesn't feel special, it's just one more win in your race statistics. Compare this to a game like GTR2 (or my old favourite, Microprose Grand Prix 2), where when you win, you feel good for it.

2. It doesn't feel as though you're racing against rival drivers, it just feels as though you're against a number of random cars controlled by robots. How easy wouldn't it be to fix it? (optionally) Add the drivers name at the race start and end where there are now car lists, and give different drivers different personalities.

I know GT is "The real driving simulator", and I think it's one of, if not the best at that, but sometimes I wish it would be more of a racing simulator also.
 
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