Congresswoman critically injured and federal judge killed in an Arizona shooting

[Touring Mars]

I just watched a video of Fred Phelps talking about this, that "pastor" filled me with rage

Exactly why I refuse to watch or listen to anything he says or view their website. Their repulsive behaviour is designed to enrage. Easier to simply ignore them.

Truth be told, if the media and others would ignore him he would eventually go away.

Sadly, I'm not sure this is true. While they no doubt enjoy any attention they get, I doubt it is essential to them, and it certainly wouldn't stop them from turning up at funerals and spreading their message of hate anyway.

However, the Funeral Protection Zone bill was passed today, unopposed... so now it is an offence for them to picket within 300 ft of a funeral, up to one hour before and after that funeral. It seems they can still have their freedom of speech, but at a distance sufficient to mean that those who don't want to hear it don't have to hear it...

 

[Public'sTwin]

Palin speaks out:



Even if I don't agree with what this woman is saying. . . her diction and elocution is just terrible. (Why is she on the borderline of laughing through some parts of this speech?)

 

[Omnis]

Why are we still talking about Sarah Palin?

If Barack Obama rolled his ankle stepping off of Air Force One, I bet Sarah Palin would come into the conversation somehow.

 

[Public'sTwin]

Why are we still talking about Sarah Palin?

If Barack Obama rolled his ankle stepping off of Air Force One, I bet Sarah Palin would come into the conversation somehow.

She's speaking directly about the events that occurred this past week.

She's been one of the hottest targets of criticism in the wake of the violence, so I think it should hardly be of any surprise that she's quoted after addressing the issue.

 

[DK]

...what the hell is wrong with him?

I heard that mental illness has a higher rate of occurrence among the offspring of siblings/1st cousins.

 

[Omnis]

She's speaking directly about the events that occurred this past week.

She's been one of the hottest targets of criticism in the wake of the violence, so I think it should hardly be of any surprise that she's quoted after addressing the issue.

Yes, I know. I'm not surprised at all but I'm still perplexed as I've expressed throughout this thread.

 

[Touring Mars]

Palin speaks out

This speech is pretty crass on several levels. The entire speech reeks of face-saving and sheer opportunism... no shock there, then. She's more concerned about her own reputation than anything else, and it's painfully obvious that she is trying to cast herself as being all presidential-like. Also, the timing is as cynical as it is insensitive - just before Obama visits, and before any of the funerals have even started... but let's remember what's really important here - the 2012 election campaign. Some of her comments (such as those about American exceptionalism) sounded more like a party political broadcast than anything else. And then there is her misjudged comments about 'blood libel'.... Good job Sarah. Keep digging and you may reach China before the week is out.

 

[FoolKiller]

She's speaking directly about the events that occurred this past week.

She's been one of the hottest targets of criticism in the wake of the violence, so I think it should hardly be of any surprise that she's quoted after addressing the issue.

She holds no position of importance, she had zero to do with the shootings, and her relevance is no greater than mine. None of the above should matter.

Sadly, the media refuses to let it be that way.

 

[Dotini]

She holds no position of importance, she had zero to do with the shootings, and her relevance is no greater than mine. None of the above should matter.

Sadly, the media refuses to let it be that way.

As the VP candidate of the defeated party of the '08 election, she is the putative front-runner for the '12 nomination. That is a powerful position of importance. Because of her looks and provocative rhetoric, she is "hot" in media parlance.

Her rifle sight crosshairs, photo-ops with guns, and lavish use of gun-speak have covered her with political feces in light of recent events. She desperately wants to survive, and is hurriedly spreading hay and cheap perfume to cover the stench.

Face it, the media and everybody else loves the sight of a bigshot fighting for their life, and then finally going down under the waves with a defiant gurgle.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini

 

[Biggles]

Right now there is tremendous flux in our political balance, So it's hard to say what the exact numbers are. Left, right and "center" are very roughly in 3rds at the moment, I would judge.

Left, Right & Center seem to me to be entirely relative concepts. Someone like Congresswomen Giffords - a politician marked for attack by the right wing because of her support of Obama's healthcare proposals - would in Canada, or any of the western European democracies be considered a conservative. The left wing in the US seems entirely marginalized. An indication of this is the way Americans refer to "Liberals" as being on the Left, where as in Canada or Europe "Liberals" represent more of a "centrist" position. There is in the US, absolutely no space for anyone declaring themselves as "socialist" in any way, shape or form.

In the US the Right is split between the constitutionally-obsessed "conservative" Libertarians & the socially conservative Christian Right, uneasily united against the "Liberals". The extremes seem much more pronounced on the Right in the US than in Canada or Europe. Nevertheless, a lot of that "extremism" seems regionally based, as I feel many "blue" States in the US have more in common politically with (most of) Canada than they do with some of the "red" states.

As far as Sarah Palin is concerned, I don't see her speech as being particularly lacking in "elocution". She does what she does rather well. Unfortunately, what that is, is pandering to the most ignorant & self-deluded aspects of the American psyche. I think, Foolkiller, that you're in denial if you don't believe Palin is now an important figure on the Right in US politics. In contrast to Palin, from what I've learned about Congresswoman Giffords since the shooting, she seems to me to epitomize much of what is most admirable about the American character.

 

[a6m5]

I think the point FoolKiller was making is that Palin's name has no business in this discussion, but the media has gone out of their way to drag her in to support whatever political agenda they have.

I heard on right-wing radio today that is was Associated Press who attached Sarah Palin to this shooting. According to the host, this happened so early during the reporting that they didn't even have the correct spelling on the name of the shooter. If this is true, that is messed up.

I don't understand why some try so hard to turn this into an right-wing scandal. The shooter's friend I guess claims that he wasn't right, or left wing, and he didn't watch TV, or follow any talk shows? If that's true, what now? If anything, I thought this would lead to government taking large capacity magazines off the market, or more restrictive gun control, personally.

Chris(TM) sounds sure that this is going to be the end of Sarah Palin, but I'm not sure. Left side, right side, I'm sure with any nation, they have millions of idiots just waiting for an excuse to support them. If Palin play her cards right, it would surprise me none to see her use this her advantage.

 

[Jawsers]

Ya, they thought his name was Laughner. Even in Canada yesterday, my cities local news still had his named spelled as that.

He was beyond the edge years ago. What to me is striking is the fact, he didn't kill himself. Usually someone that mentally unstable, commits suicide by their hands or the cops. He attempted to get away. Have we had anyone who has gone on a shooting spree still alive to be put to trial?

 

[Omnis]

This interview is a perfect example of the real issue vs. political distractions, and the real issues here are being attempted to be expressed by Mr. Kokesh.



This guy Kevin Powell is really annoying. What a microphone hog. Such poor moderating too (along with poor taglines), but still a good example.

 

[Touring Mars]

I think the point FoolKiller was making is that Palin's name has no business in this discussion, but the media has gone out of their way to drag her in to support whatever political agenda they have.

There are definitely those who are more than happy to focus on Palin bashing, but it is not true that her connection with the case is a complete fabrication. Giffords herself spoke about her discomfort at being targetted on Palin's website. That is not a media fabrication. What is perhaps is the idea that the connection between Palin and the shootings in Arizona is anything more than tenuous, but it is there nevertheless. Politicians are more than happy to exploit the media when it suits them, but many (esp. Palin) seem to think that the media ought to butt out when they start questioning their own behaviour.

According to the host, this happened so early during the reporting that they didn't even have the correct spelling on the name of the shooter. If this is true, that is messed up.

The first reports I saw named the suspect as Jared Laughner...

Chris(TM) sounds sure that this is going to be the end of Sarah Palin, but I'm not sure. Left side, right side, I'm sure with any nation, they have millions of idiots just waiting for an excuse to support them. If Palin play her cards right, it would surprise me none to see her use this her advantage.

I'm not so sure either. I think it will harm her chances of running for president, but it certainly won't be the end of her. The gist of my last post was that I (and I'm sure many others) read her speech as an attempt to a) limit any damage being done to her reputation and b) to actively enhance her reputation. Either way, it was about her.

 

[ExigeEvan]

However, the Funeral Protection Zone bill was passed today, unopposed... so now it is an offence for them to picket within 300 ft of a funeral, up to one hour before and after that funeral. It seems they can still have their freedom of speech, but at a distance sufficient to mean that those who don't want to hear it don't have to hear it...

And it disgusts me that it has taken this long for such a law to be passed, and yet for years the Phelps scum have protested at the funeral's of Soldiers, homosexuals and others.

This interview is a perfect example of the real issue vs. political distractions, and the real issues here are being attempted to be expressed by Mr. Kokesh.

*snip*

This guy Kevin Powell is really annoying. What a microphone hog. Such poor moderating too (along with poor taglines), but still a good example.

Kevin Powell first quotes a man saying "everything is political" and then is later saying "I'm having a human conversation, you made this political".

The hell!?

 

[astrosdude91]

I found the video of Loughner's friend being interviewed on the Today Show.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/41036352#41036352

I'm not sure if the video is region free though.

 

[Dotini]

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/12/palin-blood-libel/

Jewish groups are pouncing on Palin for her use of the loaded term, "blood libel".

 

[FoolKiller]

As the VP candidate of the defeated party of the '08 election, she is the putative front-runner for the '12 nomination. That is a powerful position of importance. Because of her looks and provocative rhetoric, she is "hot" in media parlance.

Her rifle sight crosshairs, photo-ops with guns, and lavish use of gun-speak have covered her with political feces in light of recent events. She desperately wants to survive, and is hurriedly spreading hay and cheap perfume to cover the stench.

Face it, the media and everybody else loves the sight of a bigshot fighting for their life, and then finally going down under the waves with a defiant gurgle.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini

All of the above which have zero ties to this shooting. The only relation she has to this is the one the media created. By continuing to discuss it we only encourage the media to jump to irrational and premature conclusions.

I think, Foolkiller, that you're in denial if you don't believe Palin is now an important figure on the Right in US politics. In contrast to Palin, from what I've learned about Congresswoman Giffords since the shooting, she seems to me to epitomize much of what is most admirable about the American character.

But what actual connection does Palin have to this? She wouldn't have had to make a speech if we didn't encourage the media to jump to conclusions and play the blame game before the blood dries so that we can see some metaphorical blood on screen.

There are definitely those who are more than happy to focus on Palin bashing, but it is not true that her connection with the case is a complete fabrication. Giffords herself spoke about her discomfort at being targetted on Palin's website. That is not a media fabrication. What is perhaps is the idea that the connection between Palin and the shootings in Arizona is anything more than tenuous, but it is there nevertheless.

Palin has zero ties to the shooting. None. The shooter has been upset with Giffords since 2007, when she didn't give him a good enough answer to a nonsensical question.

Had Palin left her map up after the shootings then she would be open for criticism. But past campaign rhetoric had nothing to do with this case.

Palin's relevance to anything in politics is the same as that of Beck, Limbaugh, Olbermann, or Maddow. Until she actively seeks another office she is just a commentator who runs a PAC.

Politicians are more than happy to exploit the media when it suits them, but many (esp. Palin) seem to think that the media ought to butt out when they start questioning their own behaviour.

<snip>

I'm not so sure either. I think it will harm her chances of running for president, but it certainly won't be the end of her. The gist of my last post was that I (and I'm sure many others) read her speech as an attempt to a) limit any damage being done to her reputation and b) to actively enhance her reputation. Either way, it was about her.

I do not disagree with any of this, however to analyze Palin's speech and judge her as just trying to save herself and not really caring while letting the media itself off the hook is wrong. Palin has attacked the media for a long time and they found an opening to sully her reputation in return, likely with the hopes of damaging any chances she has of a presidential run, assuming she is going for it. However, the fact that they had to take this tragedy, where people lost their lives, and use it against her, making this about her, and that some of those opposed to Palin have joined in shows just how far we have sunk. In attacking Palin for her rhetoric the media has gone to an even lower place. I guess they took it to heart when Rahm Emanuel said to never let a tragedy go to waste. Too bad for them he doesn't agree in this instance.

And it disgusts me that it has taken this long for such a law to be passed, and yet for years the Phelps scum have protested at the funeral's of Soldiers, homosexuals and others.

They tried to pass a law that banned them from getting near soldier's funerals but it was overturned in courts on 1st Amendment grounds. This law will likely be overturned as well, but the funerals will be long over before the court process begins. This will likely be a temporary measure only to stop them now, and those who wrote the law likely know that.

 

[OG_Wretch]

This interview is a perfect example of the real issue vs. political distractions, and the real issues here are being attempted to be expressed by Mr. Kokesh.



This guy Kevin Powell is really annoying. What a microphone hog. Such poor moderating too (along with poor taglines), but still a good example.

When they start the video off with out an out lies I can't be bothered to watch it.
It's too slanted from the begining.
But I did watch it as far as them cutting the guys mic out..
...I suspect by design.

I also can't be bothered with debate when it's my obligation to protect myself when danger presents itself...
...not wait on the cops to show up in ten or fifteen minutes after myself or my family is dead or dying.

Unless somehow you who are so anti-self defense believe there is a way to talk to armed murderers and crazies to get them to behave?

I know too well when I can and cannot exercise the use of deadly force
and that should be the only prerequisite to someone having a gun to use.

Guns are mere tools and nothing more.
I could take most any number of other tools and make people just as dead.
It's how some people behave that is the problem.


OASN, I say if you want to stop violence of any kind in the cities then get rid of them.
It's already been shown that when you stack a bunch of rats on top of each other
that they will start gnawing each others ears and tails off.
So, why should any other social creature act any different when exposed to the same environment?

 

[ledhed]

.

Biggles --Gifford was a considered a CONSERTATIVE --although a democrat -she had support enough to win in an area not known for its liberal thought .
She also was getting attacked in her district because as a conservative she help get it passed .
DESPITE the massive opposition to the bill in Arizona --the lady by all accounts was respected for following her convictions --at the meet and greet where many Republicans --votes she would need if she ever expected to be reelected.
DEMOCRAT --it doesn't equal liberal or progressive . Although the party leadership was hijacked by leftwing loons , the results of the election show how well that worked out..ODD since pelosi went out of her way to court conservative dems to win the house..I work for Sen casey in PA.--he is Conservative --pro life Dem...he faces a tough election now ..because of tghis administrations policy's.
@ others ;
Why Criticise Palin for responding to to our moronic media that linked the shooting to politics without one fact ?

You must have a bias against the lady.

 

[Biggles]

She also was AGAINST the obamacare bungle.

Really? The Right (& the facts) seem to suggest the contrary.

http://ronbosoldier.blogspot.com/2011/01/gifford-not-moderate-voted-for.html

http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2011/01/constituional-shmonstitutional.html

http://www.examiner.com/pima-county...on/rep-giffords-obamacare-vote-a-problem-2010

You must have a bias against the lady.

A bias?! That would be a massive understatement.

 

[a6m5]

There are definitely those who are more than happy to focus on Palin bashing, but it is not true that her connection with the case is a complete fabrication. Giffords herself spoke about her discomfort at being targetted on Palin's website. That is not a media fabrication. What is perhaps is the idea that the connection between Palin and the shootings in Arizona is anything more than tenuous, but it is there nevertheless. Politicians are more than happy to exploit the media when it suits them, but many (esp. Palin) seem to think that the media ought to butt out when they start questioning their own behaviour.


The first reports I saw named the suspect as Jared Laughner...

I'm not so sure either. I think it will harm her chances of running for president, but it certainly won't be the end of her. The gist of my last post was that I (and I'm sure many others) read her speech as an attempt to a) limit any damage being done to her reputation and b) to actively enhance her reputation. Either way, it was about her.

OK, I think we are pretty much on a same page?

I'm not denying that Palin & Gifford had history, but was indeed focused on how some of the media reported this incident, attaching Palin's name & right-wing talk shows to this (attempted)assassination. Of course, later it was revealed that this kid was pretty much a nut, and that he most likely had very little interest in any right-wing causes. Only Omnis & some NBA fans will get this, but as it stands right now, wasn't this like entire Miami Heat get shot up by some crazy Euro-League fan, LeBron's shot, some players die, and ESPN suggests that Cleveland Cavaliers went too far bashing LeBron? This & that has nothing to do with one another.

Many stories or shows I saw, read or heard suggested that this assassin was a product of Palin, other politicians(but totally directed at the Republicans) and/or right-wing talk show hosts, which I believe was unacceptable, and out of line. Some Democrats suggested that (now)they don't believe that Palin didn't contribute to the incident, but they need to clean up their rhetoric, etc. Personally, those people are trying to have the cake & eat it, too. Personally.

 

[Public'sTwin]

"This was not just a matter of chance. These strange things happen all the time."
-Paul Thomas Anderson (dir. of Boogie Nights, Magnolia, There Will Be Blood)

 

[ledhed]

The news is the Congresswomen is recovering remarkably well ...unlike the media's credibility .

The backlash from this latest debacle, will reduce even further any influence the former main stream media --print and telivised --has had.

Anyone open for a bet on when they beg for a bailout ?