Connecticut School Shooting Dec 14th 2012

[Danny]

Lets have a 3 way duel, I'll provide the revolvers. What the hell, make it a 4 way and I'll join too.

I know you're not serious, but that's a little insensitive considering the thread it's in...

 

[homeforsummer]

I must have missed the joke part.

Sorry, I'll put enormous flashing lights on it next time. If you'd bothered reading my subsequent response to arora you'd have seen that I expanded on it.

I wasn't - as you appear to have assumed - attacking your viewpoint or the fact you posted the article, I was implying that any number of mass shootings greater than one is still a mass shooting too many, regardless of whether they seem more prevalent or not. By quoting the article, I was doing so in context - that's how forums work.

I didn't say you couldn't, all I said was it makes you look bad when you are ill informed on the matter.

"But sometimes a person in the UK shouldn't be posting on something in the US when they have no idea what exactly that post is talking about"

If that's not saying I shouldn't post on the matter, then I'm not sure what is.

Who on earth are you to judge I'm "ill informed"?

Thanks for taking my quotes out of context.👎

Well, you did successfully manage to invoke Rule #1 on "How to be a douche on GTPlanet", which is "Needlessly bring someone's nationality into it to imply their opinion is less relevant".

If you don't like how your posts come across to others, then perhaps you should more carefully consider how you interact with people.

 

[TheBook]

I was implying that any number of mass shootings greater than one is still a mass shooting too many, regardless of whether they seem more prevalent or not.

I think we would agree that any number of mass shootings greater than zero is still a mass shooting too many, actually.

In this particular case, I don't think more people having guns would have solved anything. Considering the fact that (from what I have gathered, feel free to correct me if needed) the gunman shot the teacher--the only one in the classroom that would have possibly had a gun--first when he went into that classroom, I think he still would have had plenty of time to do what he did.

However, banning guns isn't going to help anything either. I agree with those here who say we need to work on recognizing the mental issues with these people and treating that instead. Ban "assault rifles"? Buy a hunting rifle or shotgun. Ban high-capacity magazines? Buy more magazines. Require more/stricter background checks? Sure, but there are probably ways around that too.

 

[PeterJB]

What I heard recently is that the nutjobs (forgive my terminology for them) of the Westboro Baptist Church plan to protest the burials of the victims of the shootings and praise "God" for the killings.
http://www.inquisitr.com/440355/westboro-baptist-church-to-picket-sandy-hook-elementary-praise-god-for-shooting/

It doesn't surprise me that they plan to do this, though many times they've said they'd picket high-profile events and then not carried it out. I think that could be true of this one as I get the feeling response they receive might be more hostile than that of their average picket.

 

[Sphinx]

Obviously this is massively surprising to everyone. If you saw this coming, you're some king of clairvoyant prophet. Who shoots up an elementary school. There is absolutely no way that this is not surprising.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was a code of honour whereby children of a certain age are out of bounds when these nutters completely lose the plot and then go on a killing spree. I therefore retract my earlier comment and now express my total surprise that there is yet another massacre.

Going into clairvoyant prophet mode:

The clock is ticking for the next one. I'll try and act surprised when it happens. Promise.

 

[homeforsummer]

I think we would agree that any number of mass shootings greater than zero is still a mass shooting too many, actually.

Sorry yes, that's what I meant. One is one too many.

 

[Danoff]

I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was a code of honour whereby children of a certain age are out of bounds when these nutters completely lose the plot and then go on a killing spree. I therefore retract my earlier comment and now express my total surprise that there is yet another massacre.

Wow.

Why don't you save the police some time and tell us exactly where the massacre will be, the shooter's identity, and exactly how to foil his plans.

 

[Minty]

The idea here being that mass shootings happen.

The age of those involved not making it any more or less surprising.

 

[Dennisch]

Wow.

Why don't you save the police some time and tell us exactly where the massacre will be, the shooter's identity, and exactly how to foil his plans.

This is a bit of an overreaction. He means that you know that there will be another one coming if nothing changes in the USA.

 

[Nicksfix]

A second of silence for this list of victims. Still thinking of this atrocity, what a rough Holiday Season this is going to be for these families.

Names and ages of the 26 people gunned down at a Connecticut Elementary School.

Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Dawn Hochsprung, 47
Madeleine Hsu, 6
Catherine Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Lauren Rousseau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto,27
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison Wyatt, 6

Source: Connecticut State Police

 

[mr_geez]

I'm never understood on this site lol, or perhaps you are just a bit fired up. Either way, you miss my humor in it all. Truth is the media is sensational, they will ride any angle possible to gain ratings, ratings generate revenue. They are reckless and irresponsible imo. Anyway... It looks like Obama rides this wave as well as he would love to take our guns.

I did enjoy the tofu hybrid part though I'm guilty as charged in that regard

I don't want to go too far off topic here, so forgive me if I do.

I'm not fired up. I'm not mad at anyone or anything. But it has been said numerous times here and through few other threads (quick example: page 22 of Trayvon Martin Case thread) about the "lying" liberal media. I think it is just absurd to have such stance and not see that other side of media spectrum is as quick or not even quicker to jump on topics that fit "their" agenda (example: cause of raising violence among youth =video games and rap music).

The most important thing is to meet "in the middle of the road" and come to your own conclusions using all the tools to get information available (and as we can see, there are plenty of them in XXI centruy, thankfully).

Besides you're from Colorado (if I'm not mistaken), why would I get mad at someone from land of great places for snowboarding, legalized pot and up tempo Denver Nuggets.

 

[Minty]

If it doesn't fit, you feel better. I know it's stupid, but how many people thought after 9/11 that they're glad they don't work in a tall building?

And if it does fit you're at risk of alienating someone who's done nothing wrong.

How many people who worked in tall buildings were afraid to go to work after 9/11?

 

[Nicksfix]

What about instead of guns, give the principal something less lethal... like a stun gun or something.

Not hardly. Even if a staff of employees were armed with stun guns, mace, pepper spay, whatever, they would accomplish nothing. Think about it .... 5-6-7-8 people with stun guns -vs- one person with two 9MM's, who do you think would really win ? All your going to do is piss off the assailant when you approach him and really push him over the edge. He's already nuts enough, why add to it by confronting him with violence ?

I don't think people seem to get that even if there were strict gun laws, this guy was inhuman enough to kill children, he would've gotten his hands on guns one way or another regardless of if it was legal or not.

This is word ! 👍

If there were more restrictions in place, it stands to reason that it would be harder for the gunman to acquire the weapons. If it was harder for him to acquire the weapons, then following that same train of thought, it stands to reason that he may not have carried out the attack, or at least not carried it would the way he did - and twenty children might be alive today.

There is always theft / black market. Very, very easy to obtain a gun using these two measures. He would have carried out this mass shooting spree regardless. This was obviously premeditated. You cannot reason with a nutcase.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Thinking of one thing that I forgot to mention to the people saying to take away the right to bare arms. Not necessarily saying it about people on here are saying it. But i am talking about in general.

The guy who did this was a criminal. What he did was multiple counts of theft (he stole the guns) and homicide.

I am sorry but every law bidding citizen that carries a gun shouldn't be published for something one crazy idiot does.

Look at the number of people that own guns. That know and are trained to know when it is necessary and how to use one. Then look at the present of those people who are crazy and do this type of thing. Sorry once again it is really really small.

If the government goes against our constitutional rights. Just prepare for more rights to be taken away. Just saying.

 

[Tornado]

US citizens have spoken: Gun control is needed

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...gh-introduction-legislation-congress/2tgcXzQC

You mean the same petition system that had a petition only a couple of weeks ago urging President Obama to remove Jerry Jones as owner of the Dallas Cowboys?

 

[homeforsummer]

There is always theft / black market. Very, very easy to obtain a gun using these two measures. He would have carried out this mass shooting spree regardless. This was obviously premeditated. You cannot reason with a nutcase.

That isn't strictly true, unless you have some evidence to the contrary.

Some people may well be able to get guns on the black market. But here, we're talking about a shooter who simply stole it from his mum. That's covered under your "theft" part obviously, but then had it been more difficult for his mother to get hold of a gun, would he have got to the shooting stage?

He was, as far as the media seems to be implying, just a loner with obvious psychological issues. Gangs might have the right channels to get hold of illegal weapons, but it's probably more difficult for average joe.

Again, not that I'm picking sides in the gun debate here or anything. But the outcome may well have been different had he not had what sounds like very easy access to a gun.

The idea here being that mass shootings happen.

The age of those involved not making it any more or less surprising.

Has America now got to the point where it's just resigned to mass murders happening then?

"Mass shootings happen" seems like an oddly callous way of looking at it. Nobody should be thinking along the "yeah, but what ya gonna do?" lines.

 

[a6m5]

A second of silence for this list of victims. Still thinking of this atrocity, what a rough Holiday Season this is going to be for these families.

Names and ages of the 26 people gunned down at a Connecticut Elementary School.

When you see the ages of these kids, names of the staff that were also killed, it is just so sad. Then you can add how many friends & family the victims had, how they have been scarred inside. I live on the other side of the country, never been to the East Coast, never met those people, and like everybody else in this country, I can't help but feel such sadness.

I think most people are too shocked right now to do anything crazy. But people who go on a public killing-spree are of course nuts to start with. People do tend to be copycats, there is that stupid Mayan Calender myth coming up, you guys stay alert & be safe this holiday season.

 

[Exorcet]

but then had it been more difficult for his mother to get hold of a gun, would he have got to the shooting stage?

Ideally it shouldn't be hard for "good" people to get guns, or else you're just making the people willing to steal them stronger.

 

[homeforsummer]

Ideally it shouldn't be hard for "good" people to get guns, or else you're just making the people willing to steal them stronger.

Oh yeah, I'm not suggesting that the shooter's mum shouldn't have had one in the first place, but in this instance it certainly made things a lot easier than in the "black market" scenario. Without full info it's hard to judge, but it does make you wonder if this particular incident would have gone down the same had he not had easy access to a gun.

 

[hogger129]

Oh yeah, I'm not suggesting that the shooter's mum shouldn't have had one in the first place, but in this instance it certainly made things a lot easier than in the "black market" scenario. Without full info it's hard to judge, but it does make you wonder if this particular incident would have gone down the same had he not had easy access to a gun.

So what happens if I live in my home, I'm legal to own a gun, but somebody in my house is a nut job? What then? Am I not allowed to excericse my rights because somebody else is screwed up?

I think anti-depressant drugs and people not speaking up about whacko people are what allowed this maniac to do this.

Part of being a gun owner is being responsible. You can't legislate responsibility.

 

[Azuremen]

This is a bit of an overreaction. He means that you know that there will be another one coming if nothing changes in the USA.

But what is the solution? Banning guns in the US is just not a realistic option because they are heavily integrated into the culture, widely available, and so on. Not to mention we can't get thousands of pounds of drugs from entering our country, we certainly can't stop gun smuggling even if we do ban them.

But even if you removed all the guns, explosives, anthrax, and other options to kill the innocent exist. You can't ban everything that could be used as a weapon.

Oh yeah, I'm not suggesting that the shooter's mum shouldn't have had one in the first place, but in this instance it certainly made things a lot easier than in the "black market" scenario. Without full info it's hard to judge, but it does make you wonder if this particular incident would have gone down the same had he not had easy access to a gun.

Obtaining things illegal isn't exactly hard in most cases. I recall reading some articles in the UK that getting a hand gun via illegal channels wasn't exactly challenging or expensive.

The real problem is the fact that accounting for people simply being unhinged is incredibly difficult.

 

[cphbullet]

So what happens if I live in my home, I'm legal to own a gun, but somebody in my house is a nut job? What then? Am I not allowed to excericse my rights because somebody else is screwed up?

I think anti-depressant drugs and people not speaking up about whacko people are what allowed this maniac to do this.

Part of being a gun owner is being responsible. You can't legislate responsibility.

Im not sure thats what he was fishing at, it'd be your responsibility to keep your guns locked up though.

What did you mean 'people not speaking up about whacko people'?

 

[photonrider]

Thanks for the list, Nicksfix.

Confirmed by police now that it was an AR-15 that was used on the victims, and a handgun used to end the shooter's life. There were multiple magazines for all the guns - including high capacity magazines for the AR-15. There was a shotgun left behind in the car.
Nancy's death has been officially ruled as homicide - shot in the head while she was in bed.
He shot his way into the school.
He also turned left, when he entered the hallway. He could have turned right.
Motive has still not been confirmed.
Hundreds of bullets were used.

 

[Ganon83]

Haven't looked through the thread much yet, has anybody noted that the Westboro people are picketing funerals of some of the children?

 

[Lock2Lock]

Sorry to put it like this but....

It won't work

You mean the same petition system that had a petition only a couple of weeks ago urging President Obama to remove Jerry Jones as owner of the Dallas Cowboys?

Yep that petition is not real. Anyone can make one for anything. Like i said my friend made a petition as a joke to enforce wiping in public bathrooms.

So basically these are fake.

Also so much FALSE info is floating around in the media right now it is insane. A lot of the stuff that the media is saying right now is their assumptions and isn't fact. I have heard this story on how many magazines he had change 6 times in the last hour. These people would rather make assumptions than get the facts straight.

 

[Joel]

But what is the solution? Banning guns in the US is just not a realistic option because they are heavily integrated into the culture, widely available, and so on. Not to mention we can't get thousands of pounds of drugs from entering our country, we certainly can't stop gun smuggling even if we do ban them.

But even if you removed all the guns, explosives, anthrax, and other options to kill the innocent exist. You can't ban everything that could be used as a weapon.

This is basically my opinion on it. As a Canadian, gun control works very well, for Canada. You need to look no further than the words used in Canada vs the USA about guns. Guns are referred to as weapons in the US, and in Canada are almost exclusively called firearms. A subtle difference, but very telling. It's just not a part of the culture in the same way in Canada or Europe.

 

[Northstar]

Sorry, I'll put enormous flashing lights on it next time. If you'd bothered reading my subsequent response to arora you'd have seen that I expanded on it.

I did, still doesn't seem like a joke(this isn't exactly the place you expect jokes, so that doesn't help).

"But sometimes a person in the UK shouldn't be posting on something in the US when they have no idea what exactly that post is talking about"

If that's not saying I shouldn't post on the matter, then I'm not sure what is.

Did you miss the part where I said you should research a little before commenting? It was right after the part you quoted, actually it was part of it.

Well, you did successfully manage to invoke Rule #1 on "How to be a douche on GTPlanet", which is "Needlessly bring someone's nationality into it to imply their opinion is less relevant".

It wasn't needless though, my point was that if someone is some 3000 miles from where something is going on they may not be as informed as someone who is there. This is the reason I don't comment much on UK related things, I'm not very informed on them.

If you don't like how your posts come across to others, then perhaps you should more carefully consider how you interact with people.

Honestly, I don't care how people see my posts, they represent who I am and my opinions, if someone doesn't like it than that's fine, I'm not changing though.

 

[photonrider]

Alright, Ladies, and Gents - for those of you more concerned with posting styles, gun-control, location as to knowledge base, and how far you can actually pee - please, either find the suitable threads for it, or create one of your own. If this continues, I will have no option but to close this discussion, or at the very least call upon the Moderating Staff to have a closer look at your posts.
Remember - this discussion is being viewed by guests worldwide - including no doubt by at least one law-enforcement official (it was announced by the Connecticut State Police themselves that all posts on this matter are being viewed and arrests made if there was any harrassment of any individuals on Social Media in connection with this matter.)

As well - the purpose of this discussion was to inform ourselves as to the facts of this matter - and related items, as well as a way of conveying our sympathy, remembering the victims, and trying to learn from this event. No doubt guns were used - and the what, how, when and where of the weapons is a matter of discussion - but it should not extend further than that; as I would remind you once again (and this has been called out many times) there are threads specifically for that - used in other shootings, and to be used if there are further shootings - as to what gun would have been the best to use, type of wood used in the stock, colour of barrel, etc,etc, etc., and as to whether the US of A should be packed up and sent on a slow boat to China.

Thank You. 👍

Let's for instance look at some statistics.

As in - what are the similarities between all the shooters recently? Is there a pattern?
Why did he turn left, instead of right? There were classrooms on the right, too.
Why did he skip the first class, and go on to the second, which was being taught by a recent addition to the teaching staff?
And so on.
These are related topics that may shed more light on the matter - even help us and others to see patterns that signal a repeat of this.

This may not be the biggest school shooting ever. But it is a watershed moment. That makes it greater than merely big to me.

 

[boiltheocean]

So what happens if I live in my home, I'm legal to own a gun, but somebody in my house is a nut job? What then? Am I not allowed to excericse my rights because somebody else is screwed up?

I think anti-depressant drugs and people not speaking up about whacko people are what allowed this maniac to do this.

Part of being a gun owner is being responsible. You can't legislate responsibility.

It's irresponsible to keep a gun when you know an occupant of the same household has serious behavioural problems. So what if it's your right to keep one, consider others before using such a selfish argument.

Why do you think people don't talk about mental health issues? It's partly down to being afraid of the public labelling them as "whackos" or "nut jobs".

Are you even aware of what anti-depressants do? It's not this.

 

[homeforsummer]

So what happens if I live in my home, I'm legal to own a gun, but somebody in my house is a nut job? What then? Am I not allowed to excericse my rights because somebody else is screwed up?

I think anti-depressant drugs and people not speaking up about whacko people are what allowed this maniac to do this.

Part of being a gun owner is being responsible. You can't legislate responsibility.

I'm not sure this comment really follows exactly what I was getting at, but I'll respond anyway.

You've actually brought up an interesting point though with "you can't legislate responsibility". You're right - you can't, but in the scenario you describe, if you live with a nut job, that's probably your responsibility to realize that they're a nut job and ensure that they're less likely to get hold of a gun.

I'm not advocating having your gun taken away, but "what if someone in my house is a nut job" seems like exactly the sort of scenario you can exercise a bit more control over. If someone in your house was genuinely a nut job, would you give them easy access to a gun?...

Obtaining things illegal isn't exactly hard in most cases. I recall reading some articles in the UK that getting a hand gun via illegal channels wasn't exactly challenging or expensive.

The real problem is the fact that accounting for people simply being unhinged is incredibly difficult.

It depends how determined the criminal/nutter is. I expect for someone unhinged the fact they already have a gun lying around the house presents them with an easy excuse to use it. We can't really play the "ifs" and "buts" game without knowing more, but I do wonder if this particular unhinged individual would have gone about his business in the same way had he had to spend more time and effort getting hold of a weapon.

Did you miss the part where I said you should research a little before commenting? It was right after the part you quoted, actually it was part of it.

No. I read it, but didn't deem it relevant - you've still not satisfactorily answered why my opinion is any less relevant than your own. Me being "3000 miles away" doesn't cut it, I'm afraid, and it doesn't make your response any less ignorant.

You may feel ill-informed dealing with UK stuff, but that doesn't mean everyone elsewhere is equally ill-informed dealing with matters in your own country. I'm quite happy discussing guns, as my replies to everyone else in the thread are demonstrating.

That's just "who I am", to paraphrase a rather narrow-minded response.