Connecticut School Shooting Dec 14th 2012

[Zenith]

Well ok think about it this way. A group of people running in say a
line from left to right.
You are firing from left to right pulling the trigger fast. The people who are in the middle are going to get hit twice as much as someone on the end. From over lapping. Sorry if this is bad to picture but i am trying to look at the big picture

I shoot AR15's. There is no way that you're going put 11 rounds into a single child if you were "spraying" fire from the hip. The ability to accurately shoot a single person is not there. The child would not be able to stay upright through the first couple of rounds. It is much more likely that the shooter simply aimed and fired at one of the children.

 

[Lock2Lock]

So I asked about one example and you give me broken link to stats about China attacks (if I see it properly now 9 attacks total) with melee weapons that total death count is smaller than this one awful act in Connecticut.

What would happen if those 9 attacks were made with firearms?

Would the number of casualties were higher or smaller from your point of view?

I believe he meant to post this by the way. Which in his link asked you to click on something to get to the pages I guess you didn't see it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010–2011)

 

[a6m5]

Would the number of casualties were higher or smaller from your point of view?

I don't think anyone would argue the fact that firearms are more powerful than blades. Me, personally, I'm merely stating that it is fairly easy for capable adult with knife to murder a room full of kindergartners.

 

[arora]

I guess it had to be a knife only and all those other rules lol.

Anyway, 287 children murdered on that day in 1978, no guns.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Anyone locate where the guns used was said and who supposedly was quoted for saying no rifle in the first place?

I don't know what you mean. Sorry confused.

I shoot AR15's. There is no way that you're going put 11 rounds into a single child if you were "spraying" fire from the hip. The ability to accurately shoot a single person is not there. The child would not be able to stay upright through the first couple of rounds. It is much more likely that the shooter simply aimed and fired at one of the children.

That is true too. That was a gun i was using to to picture it too. But i mean i don't know. I guess we won't know what happened in there from first hand view neither would i.

 

[a6m5]

If it is so easy to do with a knife why it never (as far as I know, but I may be wrong , hence 3 examples) happened after 1945. Not only in USA,but in the whole world.

This might be crazy, but does it have something to do with the fact that knives & swords has been obsoleted by firearms?

I guess it had to be a knife only and all those other rules lol.

Absolutely. The point I was making was that "if someone wanted to", and only if there were maybe one teacher protecting them, with no weapons available to him/her.

 

[Danoff]

How do we stop this happening again? Can we? Or is a class full of grade schoolers acceptable collateral damage for the freedom to own a gun?

We can definitely do better than we are, but I think the first step everyone needs to take in this discussion is to admit that we cannot stop this from happening, not without destroying everyone's life. Dead elementary schoolers is not collateral damage for freedom, it's collateral damage for someone's lack of respect for human rights. Infringing everyone's rights is not an acceptable response.

 

[Dennisch]

You'll never stop a lone wolf with a plan. All you can do is prepare and defend yourself. But having to put an armed guard at an elementary seems something for a third world country.

 

[Exorcet]

This is an anecdotal defense and as such it's just one data point of 310,000,000.

It's more than one data point as it doesn't just apply to me, but what you said is right.

Combine violent videogames, with violent television and movies, with an upbringing completely surrounded with casual violence, mixed in with possible mental illness or defect, social pressures and ostracization, bullying, the easy availability of guns or weapons, mass media popularizing these events with continuous coverage...etc. etc. etc.

Then it becomes a recipe where the vast majority of people will still be fine upstanding citizens, but once in a while you are going to spit out an individual who does something horrific. As a society we have to determine the value of those freedoms vs. the cost to the people negatively affected by the rare individual who uses that same freedom for evil. We also have to find a way to spot people who may fall through the cracks and bring them back into the mainstream of society so they aren't isolated and ostracized and begin to feel like such a violent act is their only way out.

But that doesn't really make much of a case against games (or TV, movies, guns, etc). Some people may respond negatively when they have access to games if they also suffer from all those other issues, but then the problem is the other issues.

I don't think it's about balancing freedoms, at least in this case. It's more about finding those people who are unstable and treating them. What kind of balancing would you propose though? Make it outright illegal to own certain games? Or disallow people under age X to play them? Why wouldn't that effort be better spent elsewhere?

 

[mr_geez]

I guess it had to be a knife only and all those other rules lol.

Anyway, 287 children murdered on that day in 1978, no guns.

1. Yeah, lots and lots and lots of rules. Melee weapons, mass stabbing, high number of victims after II World War.

2. Are you writing about "revolutionary suicide" by cyanide poisoning in Jonestown ,Guyana? Cult suicide/death = mass shooting , of course.

"lol"

This might be crazy, but does it have something to do with the fact that knives & swords has been obsoleted by firearms?

Point is, what is the deadliest tool and easiest to obtain for normal citizen?

Is it easier to get knife than gun? Yes

Is knife more lethal weapon than gun? No.

Is it harder to get "gun license" than driving license in USA? No. (or not much harder in most states)

Does knife stabbings occur as often as mass shootings? No.


If it was much harder for psychos to get firearms, history and statistics tells us that amount of casualties in all those attacks would have been much smaller.

 

[arora]

1. Yeah, lots and lots and lots of rules. Melee weapons, mass stabbing, high number of victims after II World War.

2. Are you writing about "revolutionary suicide" by cyanide poisoning in Jonestown ,Guyana? Cult suicide/death = mass shooting , of course.

"lol"

287 children murdered in 1978, in one day, at one location.

 

[Dennisch]

287 children murdered in 1978, in one day, at one location.

We get it now. It was mass murder. But not by a single person.

 

[arora]

I'm sure one person killed more then 15 kids on his/her own self, was 15 the rule?

 

[Dennisch]

I'm sure one person killed more then 15 kids on his/her own self, was 15 the rule?

It was more or less a response to get the thread back on the rails.
But, if you want to, you can always remind us again of that day in November 1978.

 

[arora]

Actually I will remind you that it would not be all that hard to pose as some sort of whatever and do the same thing to our children today. That is my point.

 

[Ibonibo]

Every child killed is one too many. Whether 20, 50 in one day or one.

 

[a6m5]

Point is, what is the deadliest tool and easiest to obtain for normal citizen?

Is it easier to get knife than gun? Yes

Is knife more lethal weapon than gun? No.

OK.

Is it harder to get "gun license" than driving license in USA? No. (or not much harder in most states)

I would be open to firearms license, but for most U.S. Residents, there is no such license currently required. Just background check to make sure you are law abiding citizen or resident.

Does knife stabbings occur as often as mass shootings? No.

Again, I believe I made a valid point about how firearms replaced knives & swords. Most people I know commute in automobiles. Can they do it by foot, bike, or on a horse? They could, but they prefer to drive.

If it was much harder for psychos to get firearms, history and statistics tells us that amount of casualties in all those attacks would have been much smaller.

I think that goes without saying, but also easier said than done. Millions talk violently, but will never hurt anyone. Quiet one, who everyone thought of as a "nice person" suddenly snap and commit murder. This is so routinely observed, it's becoming sort of running joke, where I live.

Psychiatry is not an exact science.

 

[Lock2Lock]

1. Yeah, lots and lots and lots of rules. Melee weapons, mass stabbing, high number of victims after II World War.

2. Are you writing about "revolutionary suicide" by cyanide poisoning in Jonestown ,Guyana? Cult suicide/death = mass shooting , of course.

"lol"

Point is, what is the deadliest tool and easiest to obtain for normal citizen?

Is it easier to get knife than gun? Yes

Is knife more lethal weapon than gun? No.

Is it harder to get "gun license" than driving license in USA? No. (or not much harder in most states)

Does knife stabbings occur as often as mass shootings? No.

If it was much harder for psychos to get firearms, history and statistics tells us that amount of casualties in all those attacks would have been much smaller.

About your comment on harder to get than a driver's license in the USA. If i understood this correctly. You said it isn't as hard to get a gun license in the USA as a driver's license. Which is 100% totally false. For example go look at Michigan's handgun licensing laws. It takes 21 years old and hundreds of dollars and classes and a waiting period to get one.
For rifles is another story just about anywhere you can get one at 18 with no hassle. Which as I said before the place my mom even goes to get her guns. At that place they call the FBI for every gun purchase no matter if it is a pistol or rifle (which they don't have to do but do it anyway to make sure guns don't get into the wrong hands). If someone goes there and tries to get a rifle and has to wait for the screening. They will get mad and just go somewhere else that doesn't do this.

And to which weapon is more deadly comment. I am sorry a knife in my opinion is just as deadly. That's why i keep saying the weapon used is irrelevant.

 

[Danoff]

Google news picked up a rather poorly worded headline:

 

[theotherspongey]

Google news picked up a rather poorly worded headline:

How exactly is that badly worded?

 

[Lock2Lock]

How exactly is that badly worded?

Yeah i was confused about what was worded badly. I wish he would quote it.

 

[Zenith]

Look at the red circle. Bottom right corner.

 

[popcorn]

My deepest sympathies go out to all of the people and families that were affected by this tragedy, but I think that all of these people saying "OMG! GUNS ARE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND SHOULD BE BANNED IMMEDIATELY" are full of 🤬 . I don't think people seem to get that even if there were strict gun laws, this guy was inhuman enough to kill children, he would've gotten his hands on guns one way or another regardless of if it was legal or not. I just read an article saying that 25,000 people have signed this petition to enact stricter laws on guns. I'd bet anyone 50$ that at least half of these 25,000 people don't know anything about guns and are simply sheep following a leader. I'm really sorry if I sound unsympathetic to those affected by this horrible event, but people's reactions to this have really irritated me.

 

[Johnnypenso]

How exactly is that badly worded?

I'm guessing "takes aim"

 

[Lock2Lock]

My deepest sympathies go out to all of the people and families that were affected by this tragedy, but I think that all of these people saying "OMG! GUNS ARE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND SHOULD BE BANNED IMMEDIATELY" are full of 🤬 . I don't think people seem to get that even if there were strict gun laws, this guy was inhuman enough to kill children, he would've gotten his hands on guns one way or another regardless of if it was legal or not. I just read an article saying that 25,000 people have signed this petition to enact stricter laws on guns. I'd bet anyone 50$ that at least half of these 25,000 people don't know anything about guns and are simply sheep following a leader. I'm really sorry if I sound unsympathetic to those affected by this horrible event, but people's reactions to this have really irritated me.

Or those people signing this have even been trained on when they are nessasary to be used.

Just like the street racing problems. Everyone was so quick to blame NFS for the street racing in it causing people to go out and street race. Sorry no just no. If you can't decide when what is virtual and is reality you don't even need to be out in public. Just pushing the blame on everything else using abonit objects as scapegoats.

 

[HE1RO]

Doesnt matter what he did it with, or why... What he did is messed up, shooting himself was probably the smartest choice of his life,

Now its just turning into another media snowball to get viewers to watch the news again. If i was any of the families i would tell the media to gtfo.

Edit: my local news pointed out that one of the weapons he used was an "Assault" rifle manufactured by Bushmaster. Im sure they are glad for the free publicity.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Doesnt matter what he did it with, or why... What he did is messed up, shooting himself was probably the smartest choice of his life,

Now its just turning into another media snowball to get viewers to watch the news again. If i was any of the families i would tell the media to gtfo.

Edit: my local news pointed out that one of the weapons he used was an "Assault" rifle manufactured by Bushmaster. Im sure they are glad for the free publicity.

Yep and there's so much yellow journalism in the media today it is unbelievable. Specially in Fox News. I can not believe they make so many assumptions before they get the facts. This is why i do not watch the local news anymore.

All the news made assumptions at first because until today nobody said what was used. The medical examiner actually was the one who said long gun.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

The media is there because people, for whatever reason, have to know everything that doesn't have anything to do with them.

If you want to tell someone to gtfo tell your neighbors.

 

[Lock2Lock]

The media is there because people, for whatever reason, have to know everything that doesn't have anything to do with them.

If you want to tell someone to gtfo tell your neighbors.

This is true too. Very good point

 

[HE1RO]

So.... your saying all the footage that's being shown on the news is from the victims neighbors? And i do tell my neighbors that from time to time. I dont like media in general, everything gets twisted.