COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[baldgye]

The morning news update:

Coronavirus: Man receives $3,500 medical bill for test after returning to US from China
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nez-azcue-a9358146.html?utm_source=reddit.com

While I’m sure that this seems reasonable to some, I would imagine if the infection seriously starts to spread in the US, these costs will create a situation where people are not getting tested.


This is also something that seems to be worrying, how do you stop the spread of something that seemingly returns to cured patients?


14% of recovered coronavirus patients in China's Guangdong tested positive again
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/e...nts-in-chinas-guangdong-tested-positive-again



kind of related to the top link, id read somewhere that the mortality rate in the Middle East was far higher than the current average of ~2%, which would suggest their infection rate is much higher than they’ve been able to account for. How would you ever hope to control this virus in areas of such vastness and poverty as the Middle East?

 

[Joey D]

While I’m sure that this seems reasonable to some, I would imagine if the infection seriously starts to spread in the US, these costs will create a situation where people are not getting tested.

Well, the example here the patient went to a hospital, presumably an ED. That right there is going to make his bill much higher than if he'd just gone to an urgent care. A nasal swab for the flu (called a rapid flu test) is less than $100 if you pay out of pocket. I'm not sure what sort of blood test he had, but I'm guessing it was at most a couple of hundred bucks. The rest of his bill, undoubtedly, comes from the cost associated with going to the ED and most insurance companies will have a problem with that if you don't actually need it. If he'd gone to an urgent care, I'm guessing after insurance, he'd be on the hook for around $100 plus a copay on Tamiflu that they problem prescribed to him.

It also sounds like he bought into a bad insurance plan. Seriously, if you're going to buy your own insurance, for the love of all that's holy read the policy before signing up. There are affordable plans out there that fit your needs without screwing you over.

This is also something that seems to be worrying, how do you stop the spread of something that seemingly returns to cured patients?

This is common with viruses. While the virus is no longer actively harming you, the DNA stays in your system for a long time. For example, my son had Influenza A, became asymptomatic, and ended up in the hospital roughly a week later. His blood test showed that he had Influenza A still in his system even though it'd been a week since he'd shown any signs of the flu. I'm guessing CoV-19 is similar depending on how sensitive the test it. It was an anal swab wasn't it? That's not really a common way to test for viruses so I'm guessing whatever method their using is picking up DNA of what's essentially a dead virus.

 

[baldgye]

Well, the example here the patient went to a hospital, presumably an ED. That right there is going to make his bill much higher than if he'd just gone to an urgent care.

Yeah, he was concerned and so got checked out. Wouldn't that suggest that people then need to wait until they are already showing symptoms, which given how aggressively it's spread, wouldn't that only help infect more people?

This is common with viruses. While the virus is no longer actively harming you, the DNA stays in your system for a long time. For example, my son had Influenza A, became asymptomatic, and ended up in the hospital roughly a week later. His blood test showed that he had Influenza A still in his system even though it'd been a week since he'd shown any signs of the flu. I'm guessing CoV-19 is similar depending on how sensitive the test it. It was an anal swab wasn't it? That's not really a common way to test for viruses so I'm guessing whatever method their using is picking up DNA of what's essentially a dead virus.

Ah ok, but wouldn't that then only make the spread even harder to control?

 

[Joey D]

Yeah, he was concerned and so got checked out. Wouldn't that suggest that people then need to wait until they are already showing symptoms, which given how aggressively it's spread, wouldn't that only help infect more people?

No, he should get it checked out, but getting checked out is not something you should go to the ED for. You show up at the ED when you need emergent care to potentially save your life. You go to the urgent care when you need to be seen right now, but it's not an emergency (like bleeding out, stroke, heart attack, asthma attack, etc). Getting tested for a virus is something you very much should go to the urgent care for, when I got the flu, I went to urgent care, got tested, get a script and went home. It took less than an hour and cost me $5. If I'd gone to the ED, I would've had to pay $150 to just be seen plus 10% of all expenses.

Healthcare systems spend a ton of money advertising where you should go to get checked out. It's on the radio, tv, internet, billboards, and on signs at every single clinic. Insurance companies tell you the same thing too and if you look at your insurance card, it spells out the costs between urgent care and emergency care too.

It's still a big problem in the US though and it's why some people complain it takes them 5-6 hours to see a provider in the ED. If you're not actively dying, you're going to get pushed to the bottom of the triage in an ED.

Ah ok, but wouldn't that then only make the spread even harder to control?

No idea, it might. But I'm guessing if you've had CoV-19 and are asymptomatic, you're probably no longer contagious. With the flu, I think you need to be fever-free for 48 hours before they say you're not contagious anymore. I don't know what that's like with CoV-19, but if I had to guess I'd say it's similar.

 

[baldgye]

No, he should get it checked out, but getting checked out is not something you should go to the ED for. You show up at the ED when you need emergent care to potentially save your life. You go to the urgent care when you need to be seen right now, but it's not an emergency (like bleeding out, stroke, heart attack, asthma attack, etc). Getting tested for a virus is something you very much should go to the urgent care for, when I got the flu, I went to urgent care, got tested, get a script and went home. It took less than an hour and cost me $5. If I'd gone to the ED, I would've had to pay $150 to just be seen plus 10% of all expenses.

Digging into the original story (linked in the one I linked) showed that this chap was developing symptoms that matched COVID-19 not long after returning from China. It doesn't say which department he checked into but the article does go on to say;

He went to Jackson Memorial Hospital, where he said he was placed in a closed-off room. Nurses in protective white suits sprayed some kind of disinfectant smoke under the door before entering, Azcue said. Then hospital staff members told him he’d need a CT scan to screen for coronavirus, but Azcue said he asked for a flu test first.
“This will be out of my pocket,” Azcue, who has a very limited insurance plan, recalled saying. “Let’s start with the blood test, and if I test positive, just discharge me.”

I'm not sure you can really accuse him of doing anything wrong?

And all I can think is the people I work with and their friends and family who aren't read up on it, if they saw this story (as an American) it would put them off going to get tested simply due to the expense

 

[Joey D]

Sounds like the hospital is at fault here and didn't follow protocol. I'm not sure what Jackson Memorial's protocol is, but I can almost assure you it doesn't start with "put the patient in a pressurized room and then run a gambit of tests". A rapid flu test takes at most 10 minutes to run and that should've been the first thing they did after giving him a mask and isolating him in an exam room. If the rapid test comes back negative, then they should move on to other tests. If I was that patient, I wouldn't pay and take it up with risk management at the hospital. At most, he should have to pay for a standard ED visit. Also, if I were him, I'd tell the insurance company to get bent and find a new one.

What happened to him isn't common by any means and it sounds like the hospital is trying to cover its ass after it messed up.

Also, I think this shows just how dangerous the fear-mongering is getting.

 

[baldgye]

What happened to him isn't common by any means and it sounds like the hospital is trying to cover its ass after it messed up.

He's already fighting with his insurance company as they aren't even covering most of the bill without masses of history as now he has to prove it wasn't due to a pre-existing condition.
I'm not sure, how one person is expected to be able to fight against an insurance company though... and if he did decided to take up the cause, he'd potentially be on the hook for a lot more than 3 grand...
But it being uncommon isn't really important to my point, if this edge case puts people off getting tested, especially those in poorer areas with worse plans and worse access to correct and accurate information, it could spread throughout the US quite rapidly.

Also, I think this shows just how dangerous the fear-mongering is getting.

I think there where a couple of big elections/votes in the last few years that showed us that

 

[Dennisch]

Just on the news: the outbreak is seriously beneficial for the environment. CO2 emissions in China are down 25%, worldwide 6%. Air traffic in China is down with 80!%

 

[DesertPenguin]

Just on the news: the outbreak is seriously beneficial for the environment. CO2 emissions in China are down 25%, worldwide 6%. Air traffic in China is down with 80!%

I've said this before and I will stand by it. Global epidemics and the like are just nature's way of population control

 

[Dennisch]

Unless the pandemic kills about 3 billion, it will hardly be noticeable.

 

[DDastardly00]

Do you have a link for this? I've seen reports that believe China may have peaked but none were from the WHO. I'd like to share your source with a friend who is being over-dramatic on social media with picking and choosing what information to share. He's in his mid-30's with no health issues & doesn't seem to realize he's not at some severe risk of dying as soon as he gets it.

I think it was reuters where I read that but they have updated it, new cases have been springing up in Europe and now brazil. They're still saying China has peaked and the number of new cases are dropping, but they are warning of a possible pandemic, that America is not ready like China was due to it's extreme quarantine measures.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/26/coronavirus-spreads-further-as-who-

“Access the expertise of China,” said Aylward, speaking in a personal capacity at the World Health Organisation in Geneva. “They have done this at speed and they know what they are doing. They are really, really good at it.”

China’s epidemic has peaked and the numbers are on their way down, thanks to an unprecedented engagement at every level by the Chinese, he said. The data they saw suggested it had saved many people from sickness and possible death. “Hundreds of thousands of people in China did not get COVID-19 because of this aggressive response,” he said.

I think it's a great idea to be prepared but I also believe the fear mongering in the media is a bit over the top. I would tell your friend to be sensible about this. The facts are this thing has a 98% survivability, 2 deaths in every hundred is not exactly the bubonic plague. It is a cause for concern, like getting this year's Flu (which is no joke, a friend of mine just got over it). There are some sensible things you can do to minimize your exposure, stay away from large gatherings of people, sporting events, concerts, wash your hands regularly, some people chose to wear masks as well. Boosting your immune system is a great idea by eating superfoods rich in antioxidants, taking supplements like Elderberries and so on.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

San Francisco has declared a state of emergency. There are no confirmed cases in San Francisco.

Haven't seen anything particularly different here so far. I do feel like SF is among the more vulnerable US cities - lots of homeless, high density, high ridership on public transportation, large amount of tourists and other international visitors, fairly large air travel hub, generally more likely for large groups of people to be milling around compared to most other US cities. More people seem to be driving rather than taking public transportation I've noticed. As the city's economy is so heavily weighted towards tech & finance there's a good chance a lot of people can and will start working remotely. My ability to work remotely is limited, but at least I can bike in and avoid public transportation. I do wonder what in-person-only type of businesses (like gyms and eateries and such) will do in the event of large scale outbreaks. Can they survive an empty city?

 

[DDastardly00]

What Bruce Aylward is saying is that we don't have plans in place to handle a pandemic like this, that we aren't prepared. So the next natural question simply is, how do we prepare? What does that preparation look like?

It’s not so much of a question of if this will happen anymore but rather more of a question of exactly when this will happen,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases in a news briefing on Tuesday. She urged Americans to begin preparing for such an eventuality, which could include school closures, requests from businesses for staff to work from home and other social-distancing measures.

Btw Nancy Messonnier (maiden name- Rosenstein) is Rod J. Rosenstein's only sister.

What if your child's school is closed for up to a month? Do you have a plan in place for that. Will your employer let you work form home (if that is possible with your job). Questions like these will help better prepare for this in the event we are hit hard.

Nancy might disagree with Bruce's praise of China's handling of COVID-19 to a degree though:

China has taken fairly draconian measures to quarantine people. Do you think something on that level could be imposed in the U.S.? Or would we have to take a different approach?

N- I don’t want to see those measures implemented in the U.S. The CDC has an extensive community-mitigation plan already created generally, not specific to COVID-19. I understand that they are revising that plan and updating it to make recommendations for how it will fit in with COVID-19. But the CDC plan recommends things such as people voluntarily staying home when they’re not feeling well, staying home even if they are feeling fine if they have the opportunity to—maybe closing schools; maybe limiting businesses. I don’t think we had a clear idea yet of what to expect on that front. But I don’t want to see cordon sanitaires [restriction of people’s movement from a geographical area where a disease is spreading] in the U.S.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...mergency-measures-could-u-s-communities-take/

For my part, I would recommend that people have about 14-21 days worth of food/medicine/ supplies (per person in each household) on hand in the event that you have to self-quarantine. Be prepared in the event your work/school is closed for an extended period of time. I have been through this thing before and I wasn't prepared. My sister, at one point, had to drop groceries off on my front porch about 5 days in because my wife and I (she had it too) were out of everything. I do have remote access and can work from home in the event my work is closed.

 

[Barra333]

At my house, we have plenty of canned goods and a deep freeze to get us through a few weeks. Our main problem is the perishables... 1 and 4 year olds are not known for being reasonable about things running out. Going to get some milk powder to try and solve that. Planning on getting a second gas bottle for the BBQ (was in my summer plan anyway), a case of bottled water and some more beer in case of a true apocalypse.

 

[DDastardly00]

At my house, we have plenty of canned goods and a deep freeze to get us through a few weeks. Our main problem is the perishables... 1 and 4 year olds are not known for being reasonable about things running out. Going to get some milk powder to try and solve that. Planning on getting a second gas bottle for the BBQ (was in my summer plan anyway), a case of bottled water and some more beer in case of a true apocalypse.

You can freeze bread, things like Raspberries, blueberries, grapes and other perishables. The milk powder is a great idea too for cooking purposes in the event you are out of Milk. Though you should stay away from Dairy in general as it contributes to increased Mucus production. If your sinuses are clogged that won't help.

As much as it hurt to say this (because I love my craft beer), you won't need the beer if you get sick, and even if you don't it's still a drain on your immune system. I wouldn't recommend Tea, coffee or anything with caffeine either, since they will dehydrate you. Vitamin water and fluids like Gatorade are also great things to have on hand in addition to filtered (or bottled water). Drink at least a gallon of fluids a day, hydrating yourself is the most important, most life-saving thing you can do. My friend that just recovered from the prominent Flu strain going around this year said he drank a gallon of water a day and maybe peed once a day, said the fever part was only 99-100º F basically nothing, but the cough part/ cold sweats/chills were absolutely horrible. He felt like death for 4-5 days. Flu deaths through Dec 2019 were at 2100, not sure what the latest numbers are but you know it went up.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

My Friend in Shenzhen has not left her house for the better part of 4 weeks, but has been able to get a lot of uber-eats deliveries, so even if things get as bad as they were in China...it's not like the zombie apocalypse.

 

[Barra333]

You can freeze bread, things like Raspberries, blueberries, grapes and other perishables. The milk powder is a great idea too for cooking purposes in the event you are out of Milk. Though you should stay away from Dairy in general as it contributes to increased Mucus production. If your sinuses are clogged that won't help.

As much as it hurt to say this (because I love my craft beer), you won't need the beer if you get sick, and even if you don't it's still a drain on your immune system. I wouldn't recommend Tea, coffee or anything with caffeine either, since they will dehydrate you. Vitamin water and fluids like Gatorade are also great things to have on hand in addition to filtered (or bottled water). Drink at least a gallon of fluids a day, hydrating yourself is the most important, most life-saving thing you can do. My friend that just recovered from the prominent Flu strain going around this year said he drank a gallon of water a day and maybe peed once a day, said the fever part was only 99-100º F basically nothing, but the cough part/ cold sweats/chills were absolutely horrible. He felt like death for 4-5 days. Flu deaths through Dec 2019 were at 2100, not sure what the latest numbers are but you know it went up.

Is thinking tree asking the lines of if we are holed up as a precaution for any reason. The diet will likely revert to little more than water and noodles/pasta for the ill if gets to that.

 

[Danoff]

For most (not all) of you, the best plan is to just expect to get it, and drink some liquids, keep some basic meds on hand, and get some rest and get better. Based on all of the projections, it's coming, and there's not much that can be done to stop it.

If you're elderly, or otherwise vulnerable (I believe no young children have died from it), you might need to take extra precautions to avoid getting it before a vaccine is available. For the rest of you, you're probably going to get it, and you'll probably be fine.

This has been your PSA for today.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

For most (not all) of you, the best plan is to just expect to get it, and drink some liquids, keep some basic meds on hand, and get some rest and get better. Based on all of the projections, it's coming, and there's not much that can be done to stop it.

If you're elderly, or otherwise vulnerable (I believe no young children have died from it), you might need to take extra precautions to avoid getting it before a vaccine is available. For the rest of you, you're probably going to get it, and you'll probably be fine.

This has been your PSA for today.

I wonder if it's more or less contagious once it's circulating in a given population.

 

[Dennisch]

If you're elderly, or otherwise vulnerable (I believe no young children have died from it)

I can't verify the accuracy of this but as most sources claim that it is mostly the old and already sick that are dying, it should be reasonably accurate.

So, RIP if you're a boomer and older.

 

[Danoff]

I can't verify the accuracy of this but as most sources claim that it is mostly the old and already sick that are dying, it should be reasonably accurate.

So, RIP if you're a boomer and older.

Is that the mortality table for coronavirus, or just in general.

 

[Dennisch]

It should be the Covid 19 kill sheet, but as its from the Internet, you can never be too certain about it.

 

[McLaren]

This is common with viruses. While the virus is no longer actively harming you, the DNA stays in your system for a long time. For example, my son had Influenza A, became asymptomatic, and ended up in the hospital roughly a week later. His blood test showed that he had Influenza A still in his system even though it'd been a week since he'd shown any signs of the flu. I'm guessing CoV-19 is similar depending on how sensitive the test it. It was an anal swab wasn't it? That's not really a common way to test for viruses so I'm guessing whatever method their using is picking up DNA of what's essentially a dead virus.

This is probably a dumb question, but in this case, if the disease is in your DNA for a long time, would that not make you more "immune" to it in the future or diseases of a similar strain? Assuming in that time frame, your body has fought and adapted to it being present in the body. Or does it just become dormant until something causes it to affect you again?

 

[UKMikey]

Taiwan News: Chinese doctors say Wuhan coronavirus reinfection even deadlier

 

[killerjimbag]

I can't verify the accuracy of this but as most sources claim that it is mostly the old and already sick that are dying, it should be reasonably accurate.

So, RIP if you're a boomer and older.

Don't worry I'm sure a boomer will find a cure for that too!

 

[baldgye]

CDC detects first possible community spread of coronavirus in U.S.
https://www.axios.com/cdc-detects-f...ead-f4aba78d-f5bf-45ff-9cac-a93a3416affa.html

Don't worry I'm sure a boomer will find a cure for that too!

Let's hope people can afford it...

Alex Azar, Donald Trump's health secretary, has told politicians he cannot guarantee that a coronavirus vaccine will be affordable to everyone once it has been developed.

 

[SestoScudo]

May God help us all if a global pandemic happens.

 

[TenEightyOne]

May God help us all if a global epidemic happens.

Thoughts and prayers.

 

[Touring Mars]

A woman at my work was sent home as a precaution today, as she was unwell and had just returned from Italy (Rome)... and yet she still came into work

 

[Barra333]

I had a colleague do similar a couple of weeks ago - they had been in contact with recent returnees from Wuhan, then fell ill. Got the test and turns out it was Influenza. They still spent 3 days here while symptomatic.