COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Touring Mars]

@Joey D @Touring Mars , what's the up-to-speed on this South African variant? I briefly caught it on CNN as the segment ended, the headline said Dr. Fauci said it didn't look good. Is the vaccine not effective against it or is it far more deadly/contagious than other strains seen?

AFAIK, the SA variant* is more likely to render existing vaccines less effective, though there is actually little evidence to support that yet. There is also some evidence that it is more contagious and possibly a bit more lethal (but not any more so than the UK variant), but the real worry is the possibility of existing vaccines not working as well against it.

A cornerstone of UK (and other nations') COVID strategy is that banning or severely limiting international travel was largely unnecessary because the virus was already circulating within our borders anyway, so tougher border controls were not required. These new variants, however, are changing the story because although they may not produce much (if any) medically different affects than other variants that are already in the country, they may as well be a different virus as far as the vaccine is concerned, and hence new border controls are justified in trying to keep the spread of different variants down.

Fortunately, a UK-based company has already developed a new vaccine against the UK variant, which is supposedly 90% effective, and shows that development of targetted new vaccines can be done; but the wider issue of whether new strains and variants might render such 'local vaccines' less effective is still a problem, since it is hard enough (well, time consuming enough) to vaccinate a population against one strain, let alone multiple different strains.

Hopefully it will transpire that even the initial vaccines will still be effective enough against most or all new variants to the point where transmission chains are significantly disrupted, which in turn will give the virus less opportunity to produce new variants, but unfortunately I think it also means that public health measures like mask mandates, social distancing and bans on large gatherings may be with us for some time yet.

* Technically shouldn't really call it that; it's really "a variant that was first identified in SA", SA variant is more convenient to say.

Great news for those irritated by the nasal swab - China has started using anal swabs.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210128/china-using-anal-swabs-for-covid-testing

Well, they know where they can stick those!

 

[Moglet]

Another case of someone who was drawn in by social media conspiracy theories and suffered the worst possible consequence

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/28/covi...d-to-wear-mask-or-socially-distance-13980467/

 

[Danoff]

So, J&J efficacy at 66% is not really that impressive compared to Moderna and Pfizer. It does prevent death effectively (apparently 100%), but it may not be so effective at stopping the disease from spreading. OTOH, it's a one-dose vaccine, and I think Moderna and Pfizer are something like 66% effective with one dose. So maybe J&J just needs another dose.

Anyway this was a bummer.

 

[Biggles]

The mask thing remains confusing. The "surgical masks" seem so flimsy, that they've never struck me as likely to be very effective. My cloth masks are all 3 layered. One of them has a pocket to add a KN95 filter ... but I only have one filter. t seems to me that it ought to be possible to reuse the filter if I leave it out in the sun for a few hours ... but is the correct? I also have one KN95 mask for "special occasions". Similarly, how reasonable is it to reuse it after exposing it t sunlight for a while?

 

[UKMikey]

So, J&J efficacy at 66% is not really that impressive compared to Moderna and Pfizer. It does prevent death effectively (apparently 100%), but it may not be so effective at stopping the disease from spreading. OTOH, it's a one-dose vaccine, and I think Moderna and Pfizer are something like 66% effective with one dose. So maybe J&J just needs another dose.

Anyway this was a bummer.

That's a shame. More tears, then. Or maybe tiers in the UK.

 

[Danoff]

The "surgical masks" seem so flimsy, that they've never struck me as likely to be very effective.

They're actually surprisingly effective. We had a few publications in this thread a while back explaining that they're up there with N95 masks. Not quite as effective, but still highly effective. Now that wasn't specifically against COVID, so it's conjecture going forward (including for N95s), but don't sell those surgical masks short. They work better than you might think.

 

[UKMikey]

They're actually surprisingly effective. We had a few publications in this thread a while back explaining that they're up there with N95 masks. Not quite as effective, but still highly effective. Now that wasn't specifically against COVID, so it's conjecture going forward (including for N95s), but don't sell those surgical masks short. They work better than you might think.

I think part of the reason they work so well compared to cloth masks is that they're designed to be replaced frequently.

 

[Danoff]

I think part of the reason they work so well compared to cloth masks is that they're designed to be replaced frequently.

The tightness of the weave for that piece of paper (the surgical mask) is way beyond typical cloth (they use dedicated manufacturing techniques including some kind of melt-blown something or other). Only tiny particles can get through that paper, whereas typical cloth lets much more sizable droplets through. One thing I was reading was saying that the surgical mask is designed to block the same size particles as an N95. It's just not designed to protect leakage from the sides, because it's supposed to protect the exposed patient from the health care worker (who is wearing it). It's not designed to protect the health care worker from the surrounding air. But it still has to block the same droplet size in order to prevent a surgeon from sneezing something onto a patient.

So the advantage of the N95, or KN95, is that it fits tight around the edges, no leakage. It's not the actual barrier. The barrier feels stiffer because it has to create a tight seal on the outside, not because it's blocking more particulates.

It turns out that the leakage around the side doesn't actually increase your risk that much, because a lot of air still comes through the front, and the path for a droplet to go around the mask is not nearly as straightforward. So the surgical mask ends up not losing much protection to leakage.

They might feel flimsy, but they're actually really impressive.


Edit:

On a related note, this is one of the differences between the KN95 and the N95 - the tightness of the seal. The KN95 doesn't have to have around-the-head straps, it can have ear-loops. This results in a less tight seal, and more leakage around the sides as compared to an N95.

As improvements on the seal around the sides goes up, the comfort and utility level for the wearer goes down. Protection goes up, but only for that amount of air that was bypassing the barrier by traveling around the edges.

I don't bother with N95s anymore. I had some at the outset of this pandemic, which I was using in my workshop to keep myself from breathing dust. But within very little time, the around-the-head straps broke. I still have a few, but don't bother with them. I looked into fixing them myself, but ultimately decided that it was better to go with the earloops, which have never broken on me.

My kids have broken some earloops, but that's because they yank on their masks, because they're children.

 

[TexRex]

My biggest concern with the surgical masks is the air gaps at the sides and on either side of the nose, so when I'm wearing one, I make a point to cover it with an otherwise less protective mask that fits my face better and actually serves to minimize those gaps.

If I'm somewhere I expect to be more crowded and where social distancing is either more difficult or is likely to be ignored by others, I wear a mask that fits tightly to my face and can be pinched over the nose. I actually shaved explicitly for the better seal.

Anyway, a friend who recently moved to an area just outside of Nashville brought this to my attention:

A Tennessee state lawmaker has introduced a bill that would prohibit denying goods or services to a person for not wearing a face mask.

Would you believe that lawmaker is a Republican and backed the effort to overturn the results of the election?

 

[Danoff]

My biggest concern with the surgical masks is the air gaps at the sides and on either side of the nose, so when I'm wearing one, I make a point to cover it with an otherwise less protective mask that fits my face better and actually serves to minimize those gaps.

Yea that works, although I'd have to imagine a KN95 would work even better since it's designed for the purpose. Perhaps it might not protect you any better, but it would be more convenient.

The air gaps are really the only concern with surgical masks. But empirical evidence was suggesting that it's less important than you might assume. I mostly wear surgical masks, I only break out the KN95s for trips to crowded places like grocery stores.

Surgical masks do about 95% of my mask wearing. I use them to pick up the kids as school, at parks, in places that I think might have had someone recently, drive-thrus, and for any close encounters outdoors. The KN95 comes out for groceries, medical appointments, etc.

I wear my wrap around safety glasses any time I have to go inside a building that isn't mine.

Edit:

This is what my glasses look like.

Not air tight, but blocks a lot. $9 on amazon.

 

[Joey D]

My biggest concern with the surgical masks is the air gaps at the sides and on either side of the nose, so when I'm wearing one, I make a point to cover it with an otherwise less protective mask that fits my face better and actually serves to minimize those gaps.

When I used to work in the OR, we often did this:

 

[TexRex]

Yea that works, although I'd have to imagine a KN95 would work even better since it's designed for the purpose. Perhaps it might not protect you any better, but it would be more convenient.

The air gaps are really the only concern with surgical masks. But empirical evidence was suggesting that it's less important than you might assume. I mostly wear surgical masks, I only break out the KN95s for trips to crowded places like grocery stores.

Surgical masks do about 95% of my mask wearing. I use them to pick up the kids as school, at parks, in places that I think might have had someone recently, drive-thrus, and for any close encounters outdoors. The KN95 comes out for groceries, medical appointments, etc.

I wear my wrap around safety glasses any time I have to go inside a building that isn't mine.

Edit:

This is what my glasses look like.

Not air tight, but blocks a lot. $9 on amazon.

The surgical mask is acting as a barrier to the overwhelm ikeajng majority of droplets projecting perpendicular to my face, and that's what's important, but I feel like a better seat beneath the eyes can only increase protection for those around me should I be an unwitting carrier.

@Joey D I'm definitely giving that a try. I can't imagine having to do it more than twice in a single day (I'm still WFH and so I'm home most of the time anyway), so the extra effort is nothing.

 

[TenEightyOne]

overwhelm ikeajng

Is this some new anti-Swedish social movement?

 

[TexRex]

Is this some new anti-Swedish social movement?

Either that or I sneezed while typing and didn't bother to proofread.

 

[UKMikey]

My biggest concern with the surgical masks is the air gaps at the sides and on either side of the nose, so when I'm wearing one, I make a point to cover it with an otherwise less protective mask that fits my face better and actually serves to minimize those gaps.

If I'm somewhere I expect to be more crowded and where social distancing is either more difficult or is likely to be ignored by others, I wear a mask that fits tightly to my face and can be pinched over the nose. I actually shaved explicitly for the better seal.

Anyway, a friend who recently moved to an area just outside of Nashville brought this to my attention:

A Tennessee state lawmaker has introduced a bill that would prohibit denying goods or services to a person for not wearing a face mask.

Would you believe that lawmaker is a Republican and backed the effort to overturn the results of the election?

I can't read this webpage in the UK so could you please name and shame this Tennessee lawmaker in case his or her name crops up in the news in future?

 

[TexRex]

I can't read this webpage in the UK so could you please name and shame this Tennessee lawmaker in case his or her name crops up in the news in future?

Joey Hensley (R-Hohenwald) of the Tennessee State Senate.

 

[Danoff]

So, J&J efficacy at 66% is not really that impressive compared to Moderna and Pfizer. It does prevent death effectively (apparently 100%), but it may not be so effective at stopping the disease from spreading. OTOH, it's a one-dose vaccine, and I think Moderna and Pfizer are something like 66% effective with one dose. So maybe J&J just needs another dose.

Anyway this was a bummer.

The first take on this one might not have been quite right. Efficacy might really be 72% if you want to compare directly against Moderna or Pfizer. The 66% includes regions with new strains of virus, which Moderna and Pfizer did not have to cope with when they reported their numbers. So apples-to-apples might be 72% or even slightly higher.

 

[Darla Starch]

 

[Dennisch]

 

[HenrySwanson]

Well this sucks

 

[Touring Mars]

Well this sucks

Yes, this is indeed a major development... however, watching BBC News as I speak, it looks like the EU have already backtracked on what would have been an extremely controversial decision.

Long story short, they are pissed at the UK and decided to retaliate by taking the nuclear option to trigger 'Article 16', a clause in the Brexit treaty to ensure that they can control the supply of COVID vaccines manufactured 'in their territory', but that has caused consternation across the board - in the UK, NI, Ireland, and other countries that stand to lose out from this.

It would be good news if the EU have indeed backed down on the Article 16 issue, since that would be a major raising of the stakes, and has been widely perceived as a hostile and aggressive gesture that, apart from anything else, makes a bit of a mockery of the EU's claims about respecting the peace in Ireland.

 

[TexRex]

Don't kink shame.

 

[kikie]

How long can you wear a surgical mask? I know that you can wear them more than once if only used for a short amount of time each time. Like going to the grocery store.

When I remove my mask, I always put it in a paper bag for it to dry properly. I leave the paper maks open and in my car.

 

[Outspacer]

I posted my thoughts on the trade war the EU seems intent on initiating over in the brexit thread. The only point worth reiterating here is that should the EU restrict Pfizer etc from being exported to the UK, the UK is bound to retaliate by restricting the export of AZ to the EU.

So it would seem that the EU realise that they do not have legal grounds to compel AZ to deliver vaccine made in the UK to them.

IANAL, but the contract (pdf) seems reasonably clear that 'best reasonable effort' is the standard, not firm delivery dates (section 5.1). The mention of the UK in section 5.4 - in a clause where the spirit is to make AZ notify of any supply that will not be made in the EU - looks like nothing more than a get-out from that notification. The inclusion of UK is specifically noted to apply only to section 5.4, and therefore does not apply to section 5.1.

The second half of 5.4 notes that should AZ be unable to meet the initial and/or optional allocation then further CMOs in the EU should be brought in. I suspect that the original intention was not to include the UK in that use of 'EU', but as a legal technicality it probably does. I don't think it can be stretched to include AZ's existing UK production though (but again, IANAL).



In any case, it's clear that forcing AZ to supply the EU would mean forcing AZ to break its contract with the UK, and that would make it an unjust remedy. I've no idea what precedents there might be in law, but I presume that normal remedy for failing to adhere to a contract (and being unable to adhere to both) is usually financial and/or termination of contract, neither of which is much help in this situation.

BTW, the full interview with Pascal Soriot that has been quoted in news articles a few times is here, if anyone fancies the read.

edit: The Guardian has a pretty good write up of the story around the Oxford vaccine and how we got to this point in this article: 'We had to go it alone': how the UK got ahead in the Covid vaccine race.

another edit: A barrister's take on the contract: Can the EU win a case against AstraZeneca? I’m not convinced. I'm not sure his take on clause 6.2 is correct though - I'd think that "competing agreement entered into by or on behalf of the Commission" would not cover competing agreements made with other parties such as the UK.

 

[FuriousDemon]

How long can you wear a surgical mask? I know that you can wear them more than once if only used for a short amount of time each time. Like going to the grocery store.

When I remove my mask, I always put it in a paper bag for it to dry properly. I leave the paper maks open and in my car.

I’ve been following the 4 hour or single use rule.

 

[TexRex]

Link

 

[UKMikey]

View attachment 988497

Link

These protesters clearly have a lot of respect for those that they're trying to convince...

A post on social media described the demonstration as the “Scamdemic Protest/March.” It advised participants to “please refrain from wearing Trump/MAGA attire as we want our statement to resonate with the sheeple."

 

[Blitz24]

These protesters clearly have a lot of respect for those that they're trying to convince...

They wouldn't believe there was a pandemic even if all of them were dying of it and it was proven to be from the virus.

 

[VolkswagenX]

even if all of them were dying of it and it was proven to be from the virus.

That would actually be convincing..

 

[TexRex]

They wouldn't believe there was a pandemic even if all of them were dying of it and it was proven to be from the virus.

It would be proven by science. Why would those who don't believe this science ever believe that science?