To preempt the response, that's better phrased as "how you achieve as much herd immunity as possible and protect the entire population".
That is only your right if some idiot doesn’t wear his/her face mask in a place where it is required by law. It’s also only your right if you encounter a non-vaccinated person in a place where vaccine passports are required by law.
Should it come to that, then it would be because the local authorities didn’t stand behind the choice they gave people in the first place.
Though, taking the vaccine only proves that your breath and its droplets are less likely to be contagious. Poor hand hygiene makes no distinction between vaccinated or non-vaccinated, and that’s something an awful lot of people out there fail to comprehend.
Ok, but the number says as much as percentages do.
We’ve been here before.
I was not trying anything. I presented a documented counterargument to you saying my argumentation was “weak” and unrelated to a vaccine like Pfizer. It’s pretty odd you don’t acknowledge this.
I don’t know what there was to be said. You find the facts worrisome, while I find some of the initiatives to combat those facts more worrisome than the facts alone.
I don’t feel happy about it. Taking the vaccine would just make me feel unhappier as the authorities keep making new findings. At some point I might have to give in to the pressure though.
Do we know for sure? Last year there was a Swedish doctor who used the population to demonstrate how herd immunity works and it didn’t work out well.
This is perhaps the most thought-provoking take I’ve read so far.
www.reuters.com
Ignoring the fact that the video came from PraegerU, from the article you linked:
Fact check: Sweden has not achieved herd immunity, is not proof that lockdowns are useless
With hundreds of thousands of views and over 3,000 shares on Facebook, a video produced by the conservative U.S. nonprofit PragerU claims that “Sweden is the proof that lockdowns are useless” in stemming the spread of COVID-19 and that its population likely has “herd immunity...
Two and a half percent isn't nearly enough to achieve herd immunity, so the video is wrong. You need to be at a minimum of 70%.
So please explain how letting this run its course naturally without the vaccine is a good idea.
Yeah, no, this isn't relevant in the slightest.Fact check: Sweden has not achieved herd immunity, is not proof that lockdowns are useless
With hundreds of thousands of views and over 3,000 shares on Facebook, a video produced by the conservative U.S. nonprofit PragerU claims that “Sweden is the proof that lockdowns are useless” in stemming the spread of COVID-19 and that its population likely has “herd immunity...
I probably didn't explain everything as clear as I should've but these types of things (travelling from hotspots when prohibited, no mask even though legally required etc.) are happening here all the time. There are legal requirements but people keep breaking them so the more people vaccinated to save themselves and their loved ones from the idiots the better.
www.abc.net.au
What's even harder to process is that people actually listen to him. This pandemic has shown that large portions of the population, and it's everywhere, are too stupid to wipe their own asses.
And you keep deflecting from tackling the core question.
Well, no. You made a claim without explaining or linking to what you were talking about. I assumed the only situation that would logically fit what you said (Sinovac's low efficacy in all aspects) since you said "some countries". Which was wrong of me. Only then did you link to the article, which didn't support calling the vaccines unsatisfactory, and certainly didn't support your conclusion that it meant there's less of a point to using vaccines in younger people. So sure, I'm sorry that I made the wrong assumption, but what it turned out to be was actually an even weaker argument.
Initiatives as in pressure, vaccine passports etc? Per the bit you dismissed with "we've been here before", I'm only trying to address the underlying question of whether vaccination is worthwhile for younger people (young adults). Knowledge is the way to assuage irrational fear. The facts that worry me are low vaccination rates in particular sub-groups, and that is to say I worry about them, not me.
The not so new finding you brought up doesn't change the basics: excellent protection from serious illness, at a very low risk. That you saw it as a reason to be less happy about taking the vaccine just makes it look like you are trying to find reasons not to, rather than assessing it rationally.
For the first time in ages, I decided to get my breakfast from the work canteen (instead of just a coffee from a local cafe) and the lady behind the counter was coughing and had no mask on. Indeed, no-one working in the canteen was wearing a mask, though masks are compulsory for customers (I know, I don't get it either). Ironically, the canteen is the most enclosed part of this brand new building, while the customer area is a vast, cavernous void with a roof that is approx. three storeys high, so it's about as well ventilated as your average football stadium - except for the bit where the canteen staff work all day. I believe the actual kitchens are well ventilated, but the counter where customers get served doesn't appear to be.
It is government control, but since it's controlling people that his voter base don't like and/or don't care about, nobody questions him. It's especially frustrating for me, since my mother (who is fully vaccinated) is a school teacher who goes back into the classrooms this week, and despite being vaccinated and overall a much healthier person than I, is still in the high-risk group for COVID. Considering that her students are still at an age where a good portion of them are likely to be walking germ bags (harsh, I know) and in the public school system, the next 9 months are going to be a very un-fun time.
I'm pretty sure he realizes it, partly because his office confirmed he got the J&J vaccine, but he doesn't care. At the moment, it's looking like DeSantis is gunning to be the front-runner for the GOP Presidential nomination, so he's going out of his way to be as Trump-ish as possible to attract the conservative voter base. It goes hand-in-hand with his "anti-riot" law (which I can't believe hasn't found its way into the Supreme Court yet), his threats to reduce the salaries of school board leaders who implement mask mandates, and his threats to remove state funding to any county that, in his view, attempts to defund the police.
Well at least Broward county is willing to take a stand for what's right. By a vote of 8-1 they have reinstituted the mask policy for their schools.
The risk people are putting themselves in to avoid a free card for the risk of a felony charge if they're caught creating fake cards blows my mind.
Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017,
I didn’t post the article to back up a point. Besides, I’d rather not explain anything in relation to how it works as I’m not a doctor.
That was my point when I brought it up.
What’s the core question, if you don’t mind me asking?
You came up with your own definition of what “unsatisfactory” would mean - hospitalization and death, which the vaccines to a high degree still help to prevent. Maybe the authorities have a stricter definition like reducing positive cases as much as humanly possible? After all, the long-term complications is something they don’t seem to take lightly. Regardless, unanticipated findings with the vaccines still happen because they are still relatively new, and in my opinion this fact alone justifies scepticism. Even when you take into account the reduced likelihood of serious illness or worse.
Yes.
I get that but you only seem approach the concern purely from an immediate health standpoint. My concerns go beyond that to include limited data on long-term vaccine effectiveness and the increasingly strict vaccine policies inspired by the scope of the vaccine programme.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking it just yet. Go ahead and say I’m irrational, but I’m more inclined to call it due diligence. I do whatever I can to avoid contagious situations and to not spread the disease myself with proper hand hygiene and distancing. This weekend I was invited to a party with 50 participants or so, but I said no thanks because I find it more or less irresponsible to participate.
Anything like "is it worthwhile for younger people to get the vaccine?", as I've stated more than once in different ways.
This is what you said:
And here's the article you later linked to support that: Moderna may be superior to Pfizer against Delta; breakthrough odds rise with time.
Safety? A billion Pfizer doses so far, mainly in countries with excellent safety monitoring systems.
Well I haven't yet had any real response from you whether my assessment of the
I get that you behave well, and cautiously. You may for a while be able to reduce your chances of catching it, but that will get harder as more and more people return to living normally. How long does your 'due diligence' last? Wait long enough and you can make exactly the same arguments against taking any tweaked vaccine.
