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- eMadman
Creation vs. Evolution
- Thread starter ledhed
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emad
Jeezus, if that doesn't end the debate... who knows what will... It's what I've been telling friends (and the random evangelist... they won't leave me alone... I should shave more often, people think I'm Muslim! ) for years... the Bible shouldn't be taken as literal!Oh, wait... are most Fundamentalists stout Roman Catholic? Or are some from Protestant movements? As Protestant movements are reactionary splinter groups opposed to some of the dogma of the Roman Catholic sect, I sincerely doubt it, but you never know.
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niky
No, not at all. The blanket umbrella name most use is "Evangelical Christian". That covers a lot of denominations, but Catholic is not one of them.
There are, of course, some Catholics who take things very literally and are in fact part of the creationist camp, in spite of the official position of The Church.
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- Small_Fryz
So the pope is saying that a creator made the universe yet we did evolve from other lifeforms to become what we are today?
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- Small_Fryz
James2097
I have.
I dont belive in a creator anymore.
While i do think their is something that we do not know of. Maybe a higher being? but not a creator, that pulls a few strings here and their.
Some things happen we cannot explain. I shouldnt be alive but I am.
Their is something out there, another factor or varible that we do not understand.
I used to belive in God, but after reading a lot of this thread i just cant seem to walk blind anymore. I can not simply belive things with no proof and not be allowed to question it at all, just to make me feel loved and have hope for when i die, that i will live on. How much more conforting is it to belive you will have life after death and this uber powerful being is looking after you.
Religion has great morals and many who belive in it are wonderful happy people, but I can not go around saying i have an open mind if i wont even listen to the blatent facts provided in this thread.
Something is out their we dont know about, what that is i dont know, higher being? maybe. But no creator. Do we live after death? or do we go to another place? who knows. And I'm in no hurry to find out
.This thread has been very informative and a real eye opener.
Zardoz
Now that point of veiw is extremly hard to debate.
1) God always was, then ~10,000 years ago God created the universe and man, and we never evolved like famine says.
2)God has always been, then one day God created the universe and we evolved just like famine says
3) The universe created its self and we evolved just like famine says
4) the universe has always and will always be and we evolved just like famine says
Personally option 4 makes the most sense. Things happen in cycles and always have and always will. Though this goes against all we are, as everything in our life has a beginning a middle and an end. Hard to think that something never started, yet will also never end. It just always is.
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I am waiting for the results of the Harrisburg case to what precident is set .
http://www.evolutionnews.org/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9492208/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9444600/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/25/AR2005092501177.html
http://www.evolutionnews.org/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9492208/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9444600/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/25/AR2005092501177.html
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Small_Fryz
Indeed. I've always felt that it is neverending as well. We are just too stupid to understand it. We always try to measure what what can't be measured, like space. We always try to time what can't be timed. Distance and time can change.
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- swift-bass
James2097She's right on the money, sadly.
Right, It's not the low scores on standardized math tests that seem to be in the bottom percentile when comparered to other countries with similar development. It's teach ID in school. Yeah, that's what's making us the laughing stock of the world.
http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1998/apr98/math_scores.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41278-2004Dec6.html
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Swift
It could be both.
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Zardoz
...and from the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4419796.stm
I think it is now necessary to expose intelligent design/creation theory to the same level of scrutiny and skepticism as evolution. Kansas has decided that teachers must say that evolution is 'unproven', and yet the theories underlying intelligent design have no basis in scientific fact yet are allowed to go unchallenged because they are a 'matter of faith'. Matters fo faith should not be discussed as part of science class.... by all means discuss it elsewhere, but to actively teach children that ID is a plausible alternative to evolution theory is, in my opinion, plain wrong. Of course there are aspects of evolution theory which remain controversial, and there is plenty of constructive and intelligent debate about those aspects, but generally speaking, the scientific community is overwhelmingly agreed on the fact that evolution theory is a much more plausible explanation for the origin of species than creationism theory. If ID/creation theory is to be taken seriously in science class, then atleast some of the (pseudo)scientific arguments that support it should be strong enough to hold water - but they don't.
If teachers are obliged to say that evolution is 'just a theory' and 'unproven', then they should also be obliged to explain the subject properly, and, more importantly, apply the same level of objectivity to their explanations of intelligent design theory... By skimming over the difficulties with ID/creationism, and failing to explain evolution theory with clarity and accuracy, children in US classrooms are being given a raw deal...
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Mars invades..its not all the little chill'un just the ones in the boonys with the bible thumpers . Still going backwards is a trip..I always thought you were supposed to move forward with education and science not go back to the time of Aristotle...ummm wait that would be good for Kansas ...they are back in the witch burning days. Some crazy stuff going on .
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If they do include ID in the curriculum, it should be systematic. The history of intelligent design, ancient theories of ID as well as all relevant viewpoints of ID...
The Intelligent Design Curriculum
I. History of Intelligent Design
Defunct Theories of Intelligent Design: Babylonian, Egyptian, Incan, Greek, American Native, Polynesian/Asian? (as these cultural groups now prescribe to more modern religions) etc... creation myths, their origins and folklore associated with.
II. Current Intelligent Design Theories
Buddhist, Hindu, Judeo-Christian/Muslim, Shinto(?), their scope and current practicioners/supporters. Historical sources and similarities, etc.
III. Modern/Postmodern Theories
FSM, Aliens, unspecified, etc.
IV. Scientific Proofs/Supports for all/any ID Theories
I have no idea what we'd put here. Probably philosophical discussion of ID.
If the Kansas board really did approve ID for the classroom, I'd be disappointed if they didn't implement a curriculum like this.
The Intelligent Design Curriculum
I. History of Intelligent Design
Defunct Theories of Intelligent Design: Babylonian, Egyptian, Incan, Greek, American Native, Polynesian/Asian? (as these cultural groups now prescribe to more modern religions) etc... creation myths, their origins and folklore associated with.
II. Current Intelligent Design Theories
Buddhist, Hindu, Judeo-Christian/Muslim, Shinto(?), their scope and current practicioners/supporters. Historical sources and similarities, etc.
III. Modern/Postmodern Theories
FSM, Aliens, unspecified, etc.
IV. Scientific Proofs/Supports for all/any ID Theories
I have no idea what we'd put here. Probably philosophical discussion of ID.
If the Kansas board really did approve ID for the classroom, I'd be disappointed if they didn't implement a curriculum like this.
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- FlyingAGasoline
niky
And it's now unfortunate that I do.
Just because someone doesn't agree with a theory doesn't mean it can't be taught. Granted, I know some schools will still teach evolution, but it won't be tested.This imbecile schoolboard president has got to go. He wasn't even involved in education, and he got the job. The problem of the schoolboard can be solved with a little thermite...
We are too far right, in this case. I might have to go to Missouri. (nah, our roads are 100 times better)
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- GTP_Mars
Nice find Wizard Oz 👍Zardoz
article
My thoughts exactly (except I don't have kids... or believe in God...)... but for those who do, I think it's important to make the distinction between science and non-science. This woman (quoted in the article) clearly appreciates the importance of keeping religious dogma out of science class. Teaching intelligent design in science class because it is an 'equal and opposing theory to counterbalance evolution theory' is a bit like telling kids to eat supersized Big Macs in gym class as an equal and opposing counterbalance to staying fit and healthy...
