Creation vs. Evolution

[GBO Possum]

Would love to see where the bible said "the sun revolves around the eeearth" wow.

Whether you or I can find it doesn't matter.

What I'm saying is that the church hierarchy read the bible and concluded that heliocentric science contradicted the bible. So it's there somewhere. And thus, god's word is wrong.

They felt so strongly about this and feared a weakening of the authority of the bible so much that they threatened torture to change heliocentrists minds.

PS how about the fact that the bible says that people who work on the sabbath should be put to death? Do you also deny this preposterous proposal?

 

[huskeR32]

We could go all day googling and posting who can smash the most contradictions...

Okay, let's. You first. Care to provide even one contradiction to evolutionary theory? Not a bible verse, mind you. Evidence. Objective, verifiable, evidence that contradicts evolution.

...but that will not save our eternal souls unfortunately. It will not bring us to repentance.

Stop this. Please, just stop. It's a really irritating way to dodge having a legitimate debate.

If you don't have a valid rebuttal to the arguments posed to you, then just admit that. Say "I don't know." It's easy. And it's perfectly okay, too. I say it all the time, and I'm still standing here, alive and well.

Two sides to a story...

One side that is supported by mountains of evidence, and another side that is truly a story.

Would love to see where the bible said "the sun revolves around the eeearth" wow.

Does that exact quote exist in the Bible? Probably not. But that's a cheap way out of a debate. Let's look at some verses that do indicate geocentrism, shall we?

Genesis 1:14-17
And God said,

“Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.”

And it was so.

God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth"

That language certainly suggests that the heavens revolved around the earth.

Joshua 10:12-13
On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,

and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”

So the sun stood still,

and the moon stopped,

till the nation avenged itself on its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

During Joshua's long day, when he needed more time to defeat the Amorites, god quite clearly saw fit to stop the Sun from going around the Earth, not to stop the Earth from rotating.

Ecclesiastes 1:4-5
Generations come and generations go,

but the earth remains forever.

The sun rises and the sun sets,

and hurries back to where it rises.

Again, it's quite clear here that the bible views the Earth as an immovable object that the Sun moves around.

 

[CSLACR]

his makes me think you're trolling.... nobody says man came from apes.

Christians in the United States do. The percentage of Christians that know absolutely nothing about Evolution or Science, well, makes sense actually. One could argue it's impossible to believe both Science and the Bible, though there are those who continue changing what the Bible means to fit as best they can also.

 

[DCP]

If you took the time to actually read and understand the bible, you would then understand the that old law was changed by Jesus.
It hasnt' changed though, because I'm sure somewhere in the world today, someone is being killed on the sabbath day.
Such is the continuation of the wickedness of men, which must come to an end. I believe that.


@huskeR32

Man seriously, you can google the stuff. There is alot to go through.
Scientists reputations are on the line, so they can't admit themselves even if they wanted to.
Hows this, if you come up with a contradiction, you can immediately do and google the study of that scripture. It's easy to take one verse and change it's meaning.

God created time, so to stop the sun or even the earth without affecting mans laws of physics, is nothing for the Creator. Who knows, but I will sure ask Josh when I see him...

For years we all thought the sun did the moving. It's us that thought this, not the Creator.
The earth could very well remain here forever, as we may not be here to see this, even if the sun is calculated to explode in the next few million, or billion years, which ever.
Would be a spectacular site that only a spirit could witness.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Such is the continuation of the wickedness of men, which must come to an end. I believe that.

You should start with yourself man.

 

[CSLACR]

If you took the time to actually read and understand the bible, you would then understand the that old law was changed by Jesus.
It hasnt' changed though, because I'm sure somewhere in the world today, someone is being killed on the sabbath day.
Such is the continuation of the wickedness of men, which must come to an end. I believe that.

Remember when your god lived in the sky? It was a fact, and people like you would tout it the same as you're currently touting crap about 'souls".
Then we built a plane, and god moved to space.
Then we went to space, and god moved to another dimension.
Wait till we travel dimensions, you'll just move him somewhere else, won't you?

 

[G.T.Ace]

Remember when your god lived in the sky? It was a fact, and people like you would tout it the same as you're currently touting crap about 'souls".
Then we built a plane, and god moved to space.
Then we went to space, and god moved to another dimension.
Wait till we travel dimensions, you'll just move him somewhere else, won't you?

Well, he can't move to the north pole, Santa's already living there!

 

[huskeR32]

If you took the time to actually read and understand the bible...

I have. See those bible quotes I just provided?

...you would then understand the that old law was changed by Jesus.

All that I understand right now is that you want to cherry-pick the parts of the Bible that support your beliefs, and for the rest of us to instinctively know which parts should be ignored and written off as misinterpretations or metaphor.

I have a better idea. I made the effort to speak to you on your own playground. I found the relevant verses and formed a coherent response to you. I'd appreciate the same in return. Explain how those verses don't indicate that the writers of the Bible held a geocentric viewpoint.

@huskeR32

Man seriously, you can google the stuff. There is alot to go through.
Scientists reputations are on the line, so they can't admit themselves even if they wanted to.

I assume this is a response to my challenge here:

Okay, let's. You first. Care to provide even one contradiction to evolutionary theory? Not a bible verse, mind you. Evidence. Objective, verifiable, evidence that contradicts evolution.

I'm not going to do your legwork for you. If the information is out there, then kindly provide it. It's not my job to go find evidence for your unfounded claims.

As an aside, it's quite clear to me who's unable to admit truth here, and it's not scientists.

 

[GBO Possum]

If you took the time to actually read and understand the bible, you would then understand the that old law was changed by Jesus.

I think you are saying that God, in the form of Jesus, has decided that some parts of the bible are no longer valid.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, neither Jesus nor God has edited the book to eliminate the superseded stuff. How hard can that be?

And certainly, if it's too hard for God to do the editing, nobody should trust an editing job done by humans, no matter how theologically educated they are. After all, the best theological minds of the time concluded geocentricity.

Even God can't write unambiguously, yet he can build an entire universe! Come on!!

 

[Exorcet]

DCP it seems your quotes don't quite line up.

Yes true, except christianity is a relationship with Christ. The church is the body of Christ, not the building.

That doesn't really relate to what I said though.

Seeing is, but it's fitting that God says for Him, believe and have faith that He is always there. You could only understand this if you actually repented and turned to Him. Till then, you will miss the Ark. "spirit"

I have. Nothing came of it. I was baptized, received communion, I'm confirmed. I prayed, and even when I realized that the religion didn't make sense I even tried to hold on to God. I put him before everything else, until I realized that I was not making good use of my time.

This thread has seen many theists try to claim that all you need to do is turn to God, but when people tell them that this has been tried and failed, they tend to ignore it. If I tried and I never reached God, either he isn't there or he's not so easy to reach. Either case stands against what christianity claims.

It's again just a theory. No fact in that, and there will never be.

Dylansan explained it in post 8847

...good information...

If it's easier for you to think in terms of fact or not fact, then theory is fact. It's not a guess or a far flung attempt at an explanation. A hypothesis is what is untested. Theories are rigorously tested and can be used to make predictions. The Big Bang, gravity, evolution, etc are theories because they are correct when describing their relevant areas of science.

I can't understand why this can't be grasped.

This is what the people who understand theories tend to say.

No one has seen a star form.

Explain why someone has to. What makes your eyes so reliable? You know that people can hallucinate I'm sure and that there are both limitations and defects in sight.

Also, what really happens when you do see something? Your eyes aren't giving you all the information.



Consider an event like in the video, where a plane passes through a cloud and comes out the other side. You would say that the plane that came out of the cloud is the one that went in right? How do you know? You didn't see the plane when it was behind the cloud. The reason why you know it's the same plane is because you used logic. You would know from observation that there are only so many planes in the sky at once and the one you were watching was alone. You'd also know that clouds are just water vapor so a plane can pass right through. If you relied only on vision it would be just as correct to say that the plane that went into the cloud vanished and a second plane then formed in the cloud and flew out, but using knowledge you rule that out as impossible (or at the very least massively improbable).

This is how science works. We look at everything we know and rule out impossibilities. As a caveman how a star forms and he'll just smack you with his club. Ask ancient Greeks and they might say that stars form when a lot of fire comes together in the sky. That's not correct, but look, we've made progress. The Greeks know that fire emits light and that stars emit light so they guess that the two are similar. Move on and ask a 15th century astronomer. They might not know what the star is made of, but they can tell you that stars move, so now we know they are objects rather than say spots of light painted on a big ceiling. Go forward again another few hundred years and we learn that atoms make up all things. We can also determine something's atomic make up through spectroscopy. Analyze the stars and we see lots of hydrogren and a few other elements. Younger stars have more of the other elements. We wonder why. Then we realize that nebulae are actually dead stars. We also see that new stars tend to form around nebulae. What's happening is a recycling of material. We know about gravity which explains how a star comes together. Combine gravity, which nebulae, and stellar metallicity and it becomes quite reasonable to think that stars form from collapsing gas clouds. Using this information, we then know to look for gas clouds to find stars in formation. And thus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protostar#/media/File:PIA18928-Protostar-HOPS383-20150323.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W75N(B)-VLA2

You really need to get away from this idea that seeing is definitive. You can reach correct conclusions by the process of elimination. You just need enough facts.

No one has seen a black hole or dark energy, yet they can gullibly believe the experiments. Wow

What experiments? You know that the two things you describe were primarily discovered through math. They were inferred to exist because everything we know about the universe says they should exist. We then found them (well, dark matter/energy is still iffy, but black holes have been seen everywhere) after we predicted them to exist.

Why do we see a hand full of supanovas, because in a time span of billions of years, we should see millions right?

Why? Things happen at different rates.

https://xkcd.com/1331/

Millions of years might be far to short to see an event. Here is a machine with a two trillion year rotation period.

http://boingboing.net/2009/09/15/motor-attached-to-se.html

Where is this area of this big explosion from nothing, that made everything. Ironic it went to nothingness perhaps?

We're in the area. It was the entire universe, remember it's expanding. Also, the explosion didn't necessarily come from nothing. We don't yet know the cause, we're still looking for the answer and science won't accept an answer until it knows it's correct.

Only shown by those who believe they know better. I believe the flood changed the face of the earth, and all wickedness that was destroyed, but there is another story, which others are very free to believe, or accept the evidence.

No, belief is not permitted in true science. The goal is truth, so only what is supported by evidence can stand. This is why the Bible is not accepted scientifically. You believe in a global flood. Scientists on the other hand have examined history, geology, physics, etc and determined that there was on such thing (a truly global flood) during human time. This is what the evidence points to.

Everyone avoids Isaiah 53, written 700 years before Christ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah
It cracks me up when people say "ooh but that was a self fullfilling prophecy". Think of that, the Romans read the scriptures and planned to crucify Jesus in that exact way. Its a conspiracy and a Jew paid the Romans.

Exact? What exact predictions were made? Can you list them?

How true, although the heart is what God sees, not the good works. Every religion fittingly teaches that good deeds will save you, but nope, not the God of the bible.

I'm not sure what you were getting at here.

53 millions people killed in WW2. Hardly different from the rest hey?
I think God was really serious when he told Adam, "and surely you will die"

Or this either.

 

[dylansan]

@DCP


Yeah, so when I said:

Yes, I do expect an actual answer to these questions.

I did in fact mean it.

I spent a while writing that, and it's much faster to read it, so please do so. Everytime you've misused the word theory since then was completely avoidable had you just read it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If you took the time to actually read and understand the bible, you would then understand the that old law was changed by Jesus.

I've studied both testaments at length in addition to other texts. Which other religious texts have you read at length? Presumably at least Qu'uran and Shas? Which translation of the Bible did you read, and in which language(s)?

In my opinion you're displaying far more arrogance than you are displaying learning.

 

[GBO Possum]

Today's "Something to Think About" quotation at nobeliefs.com:-

There's no point of having faith if you have evidence.

--Richard Dawkins​

 

[Imari]

Scientists reputations are on the line, so they can't admit themselves even if they wanted to.

You really have no idea how science works.

For every old scientist who might be willing to ignore evidence contrary to evolution in order to stay in their cushy professorship (and I'm sure there are some), there are ten young scientists who would shout it from the rooftops because it would make their name in science if they could prove evolution wrong.

You know Einstein? The guy who proved that basically the whole way gravity had been thought of was wrong? That's how he became famous (along with a few other brilliant ideas).

Young scientists (and quite a few old ones) would wet themselves with glee at the opportunity to take down such a well known theory as evolution. We have confidence in it because despite this people are unable to disprove it.

We then found them (well, dark matter/energy is still iffy, but black holes have been seen everywhere) after we predicted them to exist.

Dark matter is an explicit admission by scientists that there's something being measured (by gravitational interactions and such) and they don't know what it is. That's just the name they give to it, it may not be dark or matter.

We don't yet know the cause, we're still looking for the answer and science won't accept an answer until it knows it's correct.

If the Big Bang is what we think it is, we will never know the cause. By definition, the Big Bang is a point at which causality breaks down, so what happened before cannot be inferred from what happened after.

If we are able to find out what happened before, it's because we've somehow gone outside causality, or it wasn't a Big Bang at all. Just a big bang.

 

[GBO Possum]

@DCP if you have no clue about a subject, it makes no sense to be posting about it.

You really have no idea how science works.

@DCP, how about you post something which indicates that you are actually learning something from this conversation, such as responding intelligently to @Imari's well-written post.

Otherwise, I can only assume you are trolling for annoyance value. Please prove me wrong.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@DCP if you have no clue about a subject, it makes no sense to be posting about it.


@DCP, how about you post something which indicates that you are actually learning something from this conversation, such as responding intelligently to @Imari's well-written post.

Otherwise, I can only assume you are trolling for annoyance value. Please prove me wrong.

Your logical fallacy is Burden of Proof

@DCP has faith in the Bible as the word of God. I believe he's sincere in his belief and therefore can't be trolling, because trolling means on it's face that the troller knows better and is being deliberately obtuse or oppositional to sow the seeds of discord. I don't share his faith, but to characterize him as trolling when his beliefs are sincere is unfair IMO.

 

[dylansan]

I would agree. It's unecessary to question his motives but it is worth noting that his continued ignorance of the facts is as annoying as trolling, which is reason enough to call him out on it.

 

[DCP]

Appreciate what you said Johnny, thank you.
I'm a 36 year old husband and father, so yes, I've got no time to troll around. I have one desire, and that is to see people call on Christ. To forget all the nitty gritty debates and arguments, and actually try to understand where I'm coming from. Debates will go on and on, because someone wants to be victorious. Such is our arrogant, selfless and proud nature unfortunately.

Yes, I've been on these guys side of the fence. Watching Neil's cosmos series was epic, and I kept on convincing myself that wow, man is intelligent, and knows it all.

How did this change?
For me, by having my eyes opened by the Holy Spirit. Spiritual eyes (hard to understand, I know).
Jesus said "If only thouest could "believe".

I'll explain one more time. The origins of evolution is the big bang. The big bang until proven as fact, came from nothing. Without this big bang, no life. You cannot convince me otherwise, no matter how hard you try.
You can explain everything you want to, to tell me what is in between the two slices of bread, but the fact is, one slice is us here today, and the other slice is this big "small" bang from nothing.

For the christian, if you accept evolution, then God is a liar, because He said "by one man, sin and death entered the world. If you accept that life existed before Adam, then you are accepting that this life was already cursed, because on bones, scientists still find diseases in them, that supposedly pre-date Adam. If a child reads Genesis, they will never find billions of years in there. Its fitting when Jesus said " To enter to kingdom of God, you must become such as these children. Nicodemus was probably scratching his head again, but the fact is, Jesus meant adults needed to be as innocent as children. We are all defensive and build walls around our hearts, because of past experiences etc.

You know, the bible says that Gods home is built on the waters "above" the heavens.
Hopefully, if man can get to see this before Christ returns, what then? Man will find away to take all the glory for himself, like with all that has already been discovered. Yes, I believe in Jesus, and in His inherent word.
People ask "then why Jesus". He is the only representative of God who stepped down in history, to reveal God to mankind. This Guy didn't come high and mighty. He came as a servant, to serve the sinners, and to fellowship with them. I have fear of letting a beggar in my home, so you can see that my faith isn't as strong. That's okay, because God walked our road, and He understands us. I'll give them food though, or clothes, and tell them about Jesus.

No other "god" has done this. Other gods, you can dig up their graves and study their bones.
The mythical ones don't give accounts of everything like the bible does.
Islam has a problem with Jesus death, but again, the bible covers us from false teachings "against" the bible. Their teachings came several hundreds of years after Christ. Same with mormon.

I've told you guys, I love science, and this is what I think of it.



This is what I believe Jesus did for me, and for the world. Consider placing yourself, in place of "MY", to "try" to understand. Instead of using other people as examples, start within yourself today.



Hmm. Not a single ungodly song in my house, yet it was all i ever listened to. Rap and RnB and MJ etc.

Everyone is going through something in their lives that they cannot understand. Jesus does, and He says try him, because everything else you tried failed. I believe someone today needed to read this post. I didn't join GTP in 2004 because of the game. I believe this is why I joined. You guys are welcome to pm me for anything. Peace.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

To forget all the nitty gritty debates and arguments, and actually try to understand where I'm coming from.

And in that regard, you have succeeded. But you come across as trying to disprove or marginalise the merits of science because it cannot quantify a concept that you believe in - and a concept that it was never trying to quantify. Science is only trying to explain the physical, not the metaphysical, and practicing science does not mean you distance yourself from the metaphysical. That seems to be error in your approach, and so you come across as preachy and trying to convert the masses.

 

[Imari]

I've told you guys, I love science, and this is what I think of it.

Whatever you think you love, it's not science. You've demonstrated adequately that you have no comprehension of what science truly is.

That you continue to think that it is somehow the opposite of religion and that the two are incompatible is just further evidence.

 

[Carbonox]

You cannot convince me otherwise, no matter how hard you try.

Yeah, Ken Ham, we get that.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

How did this change?
For me, by having my eyes opened by the Holy Spirit. Spiritual eyes (hard to understand, I know).
Jesus said "If only thouest could "believe".

It's only hard to understand for those that have not received it.
I know exactly what you are talking about.

I believe someone today needed to read this post. I didn't join GTP in 2004 because of the game. I believe this is why I joined. You guys are welcome to pm me for anything. Peace.

Likewise, when I originally joined, I thought it was for the GT in common.
I didn't know until later, there was more to it than that.
Along with myself and several others here at GTP, you have born witness to the reality of Jesus Christ.
Perhaps, it is also no coincidence that today is Easter Sunday.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You guys do know that this is not a forum created for the specific purpose of discussing Christianity ... right?

 

[Denur]

Perhaps, it is also no coincidence that today is Easter Sunday.

 

[Imari]

You guys do know that this is not a forum created for the specific purpose of discussing Christianity ... right?

Actually, while you mention it, do other religions have the equivalent of Young Earthers?

Does anyone know how Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists feel about evolution?

 

[CSLACR]

One could respond to @DCP, but he's gone on full defense at this point. He's not reading anyone else's posts, as his mind has filled with fear in the ominous onslaught of Science that is attacking his fragile belief system. (Fragile because it requires ignorance)
He truly believes Science, and particularly Evolution, are anti-God, as many Christians do, and until he takes a moment to actually listen to someone else, he is stuck in um... errr.. purgatory.

 

[PeterJB]

Actually, while you mention it, do other religions have the equivalent of Young Earthers?

Does anyone know how Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists feel about evolution?

They all have their own creation accounts, so probably.

 

[Scaff]

Appreciate what you said Johnny, thank you.
I'm a 36 year old husband and father, so yes, I've got no time to troll around. I have one desire, and that is to see people call on Christ. To forget all the nitty gritty debates and arguments, and actually try to understand where I'm coming from. Debates will go on and on, because someone wants to be victorious. Such is our arrogant, selfless and proud nature unfortunately.

No its not about being 'victorious' its about an objective look at evidence, even if that evidence doesn't match your preconceived worldview.

Yes, I've been on these guys side of the fence. Watching Neil's cosmos series was epic, and I kept on convincing myself that wow, man is intelligent, and knows it all.

Once again you are simply demonstrating that you don't understand science at all.

Science doesn't come even close to claiming it 'knows it all' quite the opposite, and whats more its open to acknowledging its wrong should the evidence show that to be the case. It even has a tool to ensure that the evidence is treated in an as objective a manner as is possible, not only that but science is quite happy to say 'we don't know' the difference being that when it doesn't know it doesn't then simply make stuff up.

How did this change?
For me, by having my eyes opened by the Holy Spirit. Spiritual eyes (hard to understand, I know).
Jesus said "If only thouest could "believe".

You seem to be under the impression that no one here has been down this road in the past!

I've told you guys, I love science, and this is what I think of it.

That's not science, that's cherry picking and misrepresentation to fit a pre-determined outcome.

 

[wfooshee]

I'll explain one more time. The origins of evolution is the big bang.

Nope. The Big Bang is the origin of the Universe. Evolution could not occur until life came to be.

The big bang ..... came from nothing.

I am continuously amazed, then appalled, at how many times Creations fail to see this as EXACTLY the same as their Creation myth. "The Big Bang couldn't have happened because it came from nothing. Creation didn't come from nothing because God made it happen." All you've done there is add a level to the where-did-it-come-from question. God is the source of all that there is? Then where did He come from? "He is eternal and everlasting" is not an answer, it's side-stepping the question of origin.

The reason you can't discuss the origin of God is because you can't grasp the concept of the nothingness that would have had to "exist" (quotes because nothingness precludes existence ) before Him. This is exactly the same difficulty people have grasping the concept of "before" the Big Bang. Our concept of Time simply does not apply, in either case.

If you accept that life existed before Adam.....

In Genesis, Adam and Eve were the last two creatures created, so ALL OTHER LIFE existed before them.

Everyone is going through something in their lives that they cannot understand.

No kidding.......

 

[DCP]

One could respond to @DCP, but he's gone on full defense at this point. He's not reading anyone else's posts, as his mind has filled with fear in the ominous onslaught of Science that is attacking his fragile belief system. (Fragile because it requires ignorance)
He truly believes Science, and particularly Evolution, are anti-God, as many Christians do, and until he takes a moment to actually listen to someone else, he is stuck in um... errr.. purgatory.

Hi there, I have read posts, but there is nothing to convince me otherwise of these theories and calculations. Did you miss that you tube clip I posted about science? I love science. It reveals the awesomeness of Gods creation to me. No body else claimed to create all that, not even nothing. That is just mans opinion.
If it makes any difference, I don't believe in aliens "unless they are referring to demons", and I don't believe in life out there, even if there are a trillion possibilities of golilocks zones.

If you can find that "life", then my God is potentially a liar, and I will be upset with Him...

They all have their own creation accounts, so probably.

Perhaps it doesn't bother them, because they are busy in their day to day lives, and because they have Jesus, they have nothing to worry about.


Nope. The Big Bang is the origin of the Universe. Evolution could not occur until life came to be.

So what started life, the star dust from the universe right? Please don't try to fill my two slices of bread again. I read about the millions of years of rain, and molten rock earth and micro organisms etc, which still lead to "where did it come from."


@wfooshee
DCP said
The big bang ..... came from nothing.
I am continuously amazed, then appalled, at how many times Creations fail to see this as EXACTLY the same as their Creation myth. "The Big Bang couldn't have happened because it came from nothing. Creation didn't come from nothing because God made it happen." All you've done there is add a level to the where-did-it-come-from question. God is the source of all that there is? Then where did He come from? "He is eternal and everlasting" is not an answer, it's side-stepping the question of origin.

The reason you can't discuss the origin of God is because you can't grasp the concept of the nothingness that would have had to "exist" (quotes because nothingness precludes existence ) before Him. This is exactly the same difficulty people have grasping the concept of "before" the Big Bang. Our concept of Time simply does not apply, in either case.

You can't grasp the concept that God is eternal. He is not part of the system and laws we are living under. If you would really like to ask God this question personally, you know by now what you should change.

DCP said
If you accept that life existed before Adam.....
In Genesis, Adam and Eve were the last two creatures created, so ALL OTHER LIFE existed before them.

Only for one entire day, and God did say that the animals fell with the curse. I also believe that the entirety of creation fell. Hence the violent universe. "Since God made everything good, then why would suns explode, and light get swallowed up". That's why the bible says, " You have created all these amazing things, but who then is man, that You are so mindful of him"