Creation vs. Evolution
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http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalrymple/scientific_age_earth.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
http://www.livescience.com/41537-t-rex-soft-tissue.html
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geology/soft-tissue-dinosaur-fossil.htm
Seeing as Heaven, Hell, Limbo, Purgatory, etc do not exist. Rotting in the ground. As we all will eventually be.
The what now?
- 3,051
- Massachusetts
- GBO-Possum
All good and well, but just exactly how do they know it's 4.5 billion years old?
Oh yes, their ancestors put dates on the rocks...
Let me know when you die though
The first sentence of the first linked article to which you responded says, in part,
Did you stop reading before that?
I go back to my assumption that you are posting simply to annoy.
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- GTAS_PEETHAM
"evidence" that has convinced scientists that the Earth is 4.5 to 4.6 billion
Did you honestly think I'd buy that after being there before?
Who are scientists to me. Did they give me fresh air, water, the warmth of the sun, food and rain?
Without these, it is impossible for man to live, agreed?
Do you assume I've got time to annoy?
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- GBO-Possum
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I prefer chicken. Free will, free choice.
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You'll have to catch one first since science hasn't came up with a way to breed, contain, preserve, deliver and cook a chicken so you could enjoy it while sitting in a big weatherproof container designed for humans to reside in that science has not come up with and using a computing machine to communicate with other human beings across the other edge of the world that science hasn't come up with either.
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Must thank them scientists for hands though. It would take me a long time to catch them with my feet.
By the way, God said that His Gospel should be preached in all of the world, without the phone and email and tv. Only twelve men too.
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No but some people like to know what the air is made up of. How it supports life.
If you drink from a tap then yes, they did.
Again, some people prefer to know that it is a giant ball of Hydrogen and Helium undergoing fusion reactions. Rather than a bright thing that god put there.
Unless you hunt, kill and cook your own food then yes, they did.
Once again, some people prefer to know that it is a process of evaporation of large bodies of water followed by condensation. Rather than "god make water fall from sky".
It is by these processes that we become more knowledgeable.
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Nooboogering
(Banned)
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- Nooboogering
I thought this is what the thread is all about...happenings of evidence.
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- Beeblebrox_237
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- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
="Exorcet, post: 10625829, member: 117913"]Wow, really looking forward to that...Is there one about to go off soon, because they've been around for billions of years, and surely we can expect one, since your guys say they only last for millions of years?
This is, again not true. You are either making things up or not even trying to understand. Not every star formed billions of years ago. Not every star lasts only millions of years (and it has even been pointed out that the Sun is about 5 billion years old in one or the other threads that you've been involved in).
Not only are there supernovae expected within the near cosmic future, but there have been plenty in the past few years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supernovae
This one was seen exactly as it happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_2008D
How can we predict when these things will happen? By applying science. There are quite a number of stars visible to us. As they all did not form at the same time and in the exact same way, they have different ages and appearances. We can look at those stars that share similar traits and notice trends. It's very similar to how we make inferences in day to day life, only much more rigorous.
This makes no sense. No forcing would involved at all. If the prophecies made extremely accurate predictions then they would be valid and people would choose to accept them as truth of their own free will. Leaving them vague makes them useless as no one has a reason to accept them as truth.
No one can be sure automatically of what is true and what is not. You seem to accept this in some form as you keep bringing up "deception" when things don't match what the Bible says. The problem is you refuse to realize that the Bible can be as much of a deception as anything else. In order not to follow a false god with a false Bible, you must question everything you hear and reject what does not make sense. Vague predictions fall into that case since they actually lack predictive power.
In order to determine if something is true, it must be testable.
And I would readily announce that you are correct if proof was shown. On the other hand, you don't even want to entertain the idea that the Bible is wrong. You can't really determine what is true under those conditions.
Darwin didn't say we evolved from apes, he also was not concerned with the origin of life (neither is evolution, for all the theory cares, God could have done it. Theories cover specific phenomena) or the Big Bang that he didn't even know about. The afterlife also has nothing to do with him or this whole discussion.
Darwin is also just one scientist out of many. He contributed to modern knowledge in one very specific field greatly, but he was other nothing more than a regular person. What is ironic?
Again, nothing to do with evolution. You just keep projecting what you want to believe. I said earlier that people aren't immune to lies, so I understand not knowing something. However you're also making up the other side's position as you go along and refuse to correct yourself even when told otherwise.
All of that aside, the first sentence by itself is sort of on the right track. Show evidence and you can claim that what you are saying is true. Evolution is accepted because there is evidence for it. There is a reason for people to accept it, unlike religion, and anyone that disagrees with evolution has all the tools to disprove it and show everyone else that they are mistaken.
No you don't. You claimed all stars are billions of years old. They are not. You claimed stars only last for millions of years. Untrue. You claimed Darwin mentioned the Big Bang, completely ridiculous. You don't understand evidence, and you implied above that evolution has something to do with what happens when a person dies. You don't understand at all.
You did it again. What does this have to do with science?
I'm pretty sure I posted an image of star being born already in one of these threads.or show me visibly how suns are born, then I will stand by you forever, off course if you allow me to...
No one rational will be interested in souls and salvation unless they have a reason to care. You can't use scare tactics to get them to care, because without proof, you can't instill fear. Make no mistake, that even if you personally aren't trying to scare people, that is the foundation your religion is built upon.
There is very clearly a scare tactic, it's hell. If you want an analogy, it's like the mayor of a city listing 10 arbitrary laws while telling the citizens they have the free choice to obey them or not, but then turning around and saying that they will burned to death for violating those laws.
There is no free will there, the laws are such that breaking them isn't actually immoral, and it's a horrible use of violent force to make good people comply with a twisted agenda.
If your example criminal was smart, they probably wouldn't have done something to wind up in jail, but let's say they did end up there. If they're going to believe in the devil, which there is no evidence for, then they're not likely to succeed at anything. This is because they're going to judge things by faith alone. If they hear a voice telling them to kill another person, they could just by faith convince themself it was god and then go on a killing spree.
If this criminal used reason, they would instead realize that doing bad things lead to negative consequences and simply avoid bad things again.
Saying something doesn't make it true.
Prove it. Don't make up an answer or just accept the first one you hear. Attempt to find the truth instead. Why couldn't a random universe lead to humans?
What soul? The brain I can find, as well as its processes that impact the body, but there is not hint of a soul. A better explanation is that we developed these traits (honesty, respect for others, etc) because it helped us to survive.
I don't see how this addressed what I said.
Why does any of this make the scientists wrong? Also, realize the point of listing evidence is not to make it so that you must listen to them. The point of listing evidence is to allow you to go and disprove everything you don't agree with.
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- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
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- GTAS_PEETHAM
"Exorcet, post: 10632279, member: 117913"]This is, again not true. You are either making things up or not even trying to understand. Not every star formed billions of years ago. Not every star lasts only millions of years (and it has even been pointed out that the Sun is about 5 billion years old in one or the other threads that you've been involved in).
Not only are there supernovae expected within the near cosmic future, but there have been plenty in the past few years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supernovae
This one was seen exactly as it happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_2008D
How can we predict when these things will happen? By applying science. There are quite a number of stars visible to us. As they all did not form at the same time and in the exact same way, they have different ages and appearances. We can look at those stars that share similar traits and notice trends. It's very similar to how we make inferences in day to day life, only much more rigorous.
Haha, you could have fooled me. So where is this footage again? Or perhaps this telescope failed to miss the dust clouds or what ever else invisible to it's lens, to make it seem as if it exploded, right? Can you agree that this is a possibility?
Also, if the universe is 13-20billion years old, how old is the youngest star?
As I've said many times, maybe's and could be, and possibly doesn't move me.
This makes no sense. No forcing would involved at all. If the prophecies made extremely accurate predictions then they would be valid and people would choose to accept them as truth of their own free will. Leaving them vague makes them useless as no one has a reason to accept them as truth.
Well that would be obvious if you choose not to even start believing there is a God.
If the bible gave an accurate prediction that Africa would be swallowed by the sea, trust me, every man would have fear and start worshiping the God of the Bible. That would be forcing people to worship God, because of their fear. This is not the God of the Bible. You have a free choice to accept His free gift of salvation.
In order to determine if something is true, it must be testable.
How could you test that you will definitely wake up tomorrow morning? 150000 people die a day. How do you test that they will or will not?
And I would readily announce that you are correct if proof was shown. On the other hand, you don't even want to entertain the idea that the Bible is wrong. You can't really determine what is true under those conditions.
Everything it says is right. It has been written, whether you accept it or not.
Darwin didn't say we evolved from apes, he also was not concerned with the origin of life (neither is evolution, for all the theory cares, God could have done it. Theories cover specific phenomena) or the Big Bang that he didn't even know about. The afterlife also has nothing to do with him or this whole discussion.
Darwin is also just one scientist out of many. He contributed to modern knowledge in one very specific field greatly, but he was other nothing more than a regular person. What is ironic?
Yes, and look at the chain reaction because of his evolution theory.
All of that aside, the first sentence by itself is sort of on the right track. Show evidence and you can claim that what you are saying is true. Evolution is accepted because there is evidence for it. There is a reason for people to accept it, unlike religion, and anyone that disagrees with evolution has all the tools to disprove it and show everyone else that they are mistaken.
I've said many times before. Look around. That is your evidence. It hasn't come from nothing, which is your logic and reasoning. Until you further prove how it all started, you know that nothing can't make everything. Dropping bricks, cement, water, paint, glass and wood from a flying plane, will NEVER make a mansion when it hits the ground, NEVER.
I'm pretty sure I posted an image of star being born already in one of these threads.
And you really believe that? What does it cost to see such a spectacular sight through Nasa's mega scopes?
No one rational will be interested in souls and salvation unless they have a reason to care. You can't use scare tactics to get them to care, because without proof, you can't instill fear. Make no mistake, that even if you personally aren't trying to scare people, that is the foundation your religion is built upon.
Many times before, this is no scare tactics. If you choose not to believe it, that is exactly that. A free choice. You are welcome to move on with your life, making discoveries with man.
The foundation of Christianity is Christ. A relationship with Him. Salvation through Him. A Saviour who will rescue us from the destruction of men, right here on this earth. Oh look around, it's coming.
There is very clearly a scare tactic, it's hell. If you want an analogy, it's like the mayor of a city listing 10 arbitrary laws while telling the citizens they have the free choice to obey them or not, but then turning around and saying that they will burned to death for violating those laws.
The bible is very clear that hell was made for the devil and his demons, and never for mankind, yet evil and wicked men will be condemned for their crimes. Sin to God is a crime. Nothing to be scared about the truth. Your conscious tells you right from wrong, and guilt hits you when you do wrong. That my friend, believe it or not, is your soul. Sadly, the only proof you'll have of it, is when you die.
There is no free will there, the laws are such that breaking them isn't actually immoral, and it's a horrible use of violent force to make good people comply with a twisted agenda.
If your example criminal was smart, they probably wouldn't have done something to wind up in jail, but let's say they did end up there. If they're going to believe in the devil, which there is no evidence for, then they're not likely to succeed at anything. This is because they're going to judge things by faith alone. If they hear a voice telling them to kill another person, they could just by faith convince themself it was god and then go on a killing spree.
They can, but then each man knows his own heart, and God knows their hearts just as well. You cannot get away with it. (The bible even says that a time will come when men will kill, and say they offer a service to God, meaning they ignore what Christ says, pray for your enemy, and love them, even when they hate and mock you.
Why does any of this make the scientists wrong? Also, realize the point of listing evidence is not to make it so that you must listen to them. The point of listing evidence is to allow you to go and disprove everything you don't agree with.
What makes them right?. Only your ability to go with them, because you accept their evidence.
You don't have to worry about a supposed Holy God, and you don't have to worry about sin being a crime.
That's your temporary idol. Perhaps you see it this way, or don't. One thing is for certain, only you really know your heart, and so does it's Creator, whether your believe there is one, or not.
@TenEightyOne
Lets try this again. When a person writes a letter, who is actually writing the letter? That person, or the pen?
In the same way, God used these men as instruments, to spread the message to the world, about salvation.
A message fulfilled I might add. Somewhere on this earth, someone is hearing the Gospel. No one will be stuttering on that Great day.
Not only are there supernovae expected within the near cosmic future, but there have been plenty in the past few years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supernovae
This one was seen exactly as it happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_2008D
How can we predict when these things will happen? By applying science. There are quite a number of stars visible to us. As they all did not form at the same time and in the exact same way, they have different ages and appearances. We can look at those stars that share similar traits and notice trends. It's very similar to how we make inferences in day to day life, only much more rigorous.
Haha, you could have fooled me. So where is this footage again? Or perhaps this telescope failed to miss the dust clouds or what ever else invisible to it's lens, to make it seem as if it exploded, right? Can you agree that this is a possibility?
Also, if the universe is 13-20billion years old, how old is the youngest star?
As I've said many times, maybe's and could be, and possibly doesn't move me.
This makes no sense. No forcing would involved at all. If the prophecies made extremely accurate predictions then they would be valid and people would choose to accept them as truth of their own free will. Leaving them vague makes them useless as no one has a reason to accept them as truth.
Well that would be obvious if you choose not to even start believing there is a God.
If the bible gave an accurate prediction that Africa would be swallowed by the sea, trust me, every man would have fear and start worshiping the God of the Bible. That would be forcing people to worship God, because of their fear. This is not the God of the Bible. You have a free choice to accept His free gift of salvation.
In order to determine if something is true, it must be testable.
How could you test that you will definitely wake up tomorrow morning? 150000 people die a day. How do you test that they will or will not?
And I would readily announce that you are correct if proof was shown. On the other hand, you don't even want to entertain the idea that the Bible is wrong. You can't really determine what is true under those conditions.
Everything it says is right. It has been written, whether you accept it or not.
Darwin didn't say we evolved from apes, he also was not concerned with the origin of life (neither is evolution, for all the theory cares, God could have done it. Theories cover specific phenomena) or the Big Bang that he didn't even know about. The afterlife also has nothing to do with him or this whole discussion.
Darwin is also just one scientist out of many. He contributed to modern knowledge in one very specific field greatly, but he was other nothing more than a regular person. What is ironic?
Yes, and look at the chain reaction because of his evolution theory.
All of that aside, the first sentence by itself is sort of on the right track. Show evidence and you can claim that what you are saying is true. Evolution is accepted because there is evidence for it. There is a reason for people to accept it, unlike religion, and anyone that disagrees with evolution has all the tools to disprove it and show everyone else that they are mistaken.
I've said many times before. Look around. That is your evidence. It hasn't come from nothing, which is your logic and reasoning. Until you further prove how it all started, you know that nothing can't make everything. Dropping bricks, cement, water, paint, glass and wood from a flying plane, will NEVER make a mansion when it hits the ground, NEVER.
I'm pretty sure I posted an image of star being born already in one of these threads.
And you really believe that? What does it cost to see such a spectacular sight through Nasa's mega scopes?
No one rational will be interested in souls and salvation unless they have a reason to care. You can't use scare tactics to get them to care, because without proof, you can't instill fear. Make no mistake, that even if you personally aren't trying to scare people, that is the foundation your religion is built upon.
Many times before, this is no scare tactics. If you choose not to believe it, that is exactly that. A free choice. You are welcome to move on with your life, making discoveries with man.
The foundation of Christianity is Christ. A relationship with Him. Salvation through Him. A Saviour who will rescue us from the destruction of men, right here on this earth. Oh look around, it's coming.
There is very clearly a scare tactic, it's hell. If you want an analogy, it's like the mayor of a city listing 10 arbitrary laws while telling the citizens they have the free choice to obey them or not, but then turning around and saying that they will burned to death for violating those laws.
The bible is very clear that hell was made for the devil and his demons, and never for mankind, yet evil and wicked men will be condemned for their crimes. Sin to God is a crime. Nothing to be scared about the truth. Your conscious tells you right from wrong, and guilt hits you when you do wrong. That my friend, believe it or not, is your soul. Sadly, the only proof you'll have of it, is when you die.
There is no free will there, the laws are such that breaking them isn't actually immoral, and it's a horrible use of violent force to make good people comply with a twisted agenda.
If your example criminal was smart, they probably wouldn't have done something to wind up in jail, but let's say they did end up there. If they're going to believe in the devil, which there is no evidence for, then they're not likely to succeed at anything. This is because they're going to judge things by faith alone. If they hear a voice telling them to kill another person, they could just by faith convince themself it was god and then go on a killing spree.
They can, but then each man knows his own heart, and God knows their hearts just as well. You cannot get away with it. (The bible even says that a time will come when men will kill, and say they offer a service to God, meaning they ignore what Christ says, pray for your enemy, and love them, even when they hate and mock you.
Why does any of this make the scientists wrong? Also, realize the point of listing evidence is not to make it so that you must listen to them. The point of listing evidence is to allow you to go and disprove everything you don't agree with.
What makes them right?. Only your ability to go with them, because you accept their evidence.
You don't have to worry about a supposed Holy God, and you don't have to worry about sin being a crime.
That's your temporary idol. Perhaps you see it this way, or don't. One thing is for certain, only you really know your heart, and so does it's Creator, whether your believe there is one, or not.
@TenEightyOne
Lets try this again. When a person writes a letter, who is actually writing the letter? That person, or the pen?
In the same way, God used these men as instruments, to spread the message to the world, about salvation.
A message fulfilled I might add. Somewhere on this earth, someone is hearing the Gospel. No one will be stuttering on that Great day.
