Creation vs. Evolution

[Danoff]

Do you think that peter wasn't saved WHEN he denied God? He very much was. But he SINNED. He then repented and turned from it. But it was the Sin that seperated him from God for that time. It's not a sin to struggle with your faith.

BTW, clean out your pm's!

So what does one have to do to be "saved" from eternal damnation?

 

[Swift]

So what does one have to do to be "saved" from eternal damnation?

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So, you must repent, be baptised and filled with the Holy Ghost. That is the BEGINNING of faith. Following this, it's about what Pako has been saying. Living your life like Christ would live. You CAN repent, be baptised, filled with the Holy Ghost and still go to hell.

 

[Duke]

So what does one have to do to be "saved" from eternal damnation?

You want to get really confused? Google up some information on 'predestination'.

 

[Danoff]

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So, you must repent, be baptised and filled with the Holy Ghost. That is the BEGINNING of faith. Following this, it's about what Pako has been saying. Living your life like Christ would live. You CAN repent, be baptised, filled with the Holy Ghost and still go to hell.

..even more confused.

So how do you get "filled with the Holy Ghost"?

 

[Swift]

..even more confused.

So how do you get "filled with the Holy Ghost"?

By the preaching of the word or the laying on of hands.

 

[Danoff]

By the preaching of the word or the laying on of hands.

So let me get this straight.

I can repent, be baptised, and have some people put their hands on me and I'll get in to Heaven? No belief in God necessary?

Do I have to believe in God to successfully repent?

 

[Pako]

John 3:16 explains the promise of eternal life. More dead horse, but happy to post it again.

 

[(G)]

And that somehow makes Creationism trump Evolution. Wait...

We went off topic, methinks.

 

[Swift]

So let me get this straight.

I can repent, be baptised, and have some people put their hands on me and I'll get in to Heaven? No belief in God necessary?

Do I have to believe in God to successfully repent?

You WON'T be filled with the Holy Ghost if you don't believe and your repentence is obviously not genuine if you don't believe. You can fool people, but you can't fool God.

 

[code_kev]

Why would God really give a toss if we believed or not? Seems pointless.

 

[Grand Prix]

You WON'T be filled with the Holy Ghost if you don't believe and your repentence is obviously not genuine if you don't believe. You can fool people, but you can't fool God.

Who is this Holy Ghost character? Is he related to Casper? Or perhaps Bill Cosby?

 

[Zardoz]

Why would God really give a toss if we believed or not? Seems pointless.

You have to accept it all: That God is "uncreated", that He has somehow always existed, that He designed and built absolutely every last little thing in the infinite universe, that He made time itself begin although He exists outside it somehow, and that He is also such a nit-picking micro-manager that he is keeping track of everything all of us low-life hominids are up to, and is so vindictive that He will get even with us if we don't shape up and believe all of the aforementioned.

You have to just buy into it all. Otherwise none of it works.

 

[Swift]

Who is this Holy Ghost character? Is he related to Casper? Or perhaps Bill Cosby?

Simply immature.

Why would God really give a toss if we believed or not? Seems pointless.

I know you've read the Ten Commandments right? But if you didn't, then it's in the new testament as well.

Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[code_kev]

If God is all knowing/ powerfull blah blah etc etc, why would he allow people to be created who are just going to hell anyway? Seems abit mean.

What I really meant Swift, was that why would a being like a God care what we thought? How does a persons faith impact on a God.

God seems abit mean, willing to send people to Hell just because they don't believe in him, what about the people in remote places who don't even know what Christianity is? What about people bought up following another religion, thinking they were right? Will they go to hell?

 

[Swift]

If God is all knowing/ powerfull blah blah etc etc, why would he allow people to be created who are just going to hell anyway? Seems abit mean.

What I really meant Swift, was that why would a being like a God care what we thought? How does a persons faith impact on a God.

What does a childs faith impact on its parents?


for the first question.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Danoff]

You WON'T be filled with the Holy Ghost if you don't believe and your repentence is obviously not genuine if you don't believe. You can fool people, but you can't fool God.

Alright. So.

You can repent and be filled with the ghost if you believe... and if you are baptised then you get to go to heaven. EVEN if later on you become an atheist?

 

[Swift]

Alright. So.

You can repent and be filled with the ghost if you believe... and if you are baptised then you get to go to heaven. EVEN if later on you become an atheist?

Matthew24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is Jesus talking. Basically, he that holds his faith to the end is saved. Even to the end of the world.

 

[Pako]

You can find the promise to eternal life in the passage of John 3:16.

 

[Danoff]

Matthew24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is Jesus talking. Basically, he that holds his faith to the end is saved. Even to the end of the world.

HAH!!!!


AHA!!!

So you can't think it is possilbe that God doesn't exist and still go to Heaven.

Finally, some closure here. So Pako was wrong.

 

[Famine]

You can find the promise to eternal life in the passage of John 3:16.

Which "version"? Which language?

 

[PS]

Peter denied Christ 3 times(before he was crucified) and he still got to preach on the day of pentecost and got the keys to the kingdom. So, just because you doubt God once here and there, doesn't mean you're going to hell.

Do those keys get you into Ferrari's too?

 

[Pako]

HAH!!!!


AHA!!!

So you can't think it is possilbe that God doesn't exist and still go to Heaven.

Finally, some closure here. So Pako was wrong.

Dude, you're off your rocker man.

Thinking of a possibility and having faith in something you know to be true is two completely different things.

Wait, I think I've said that elsewhere....

 

[Zardoz]

Hurricane Katrina is a horrendous example of the randomness of our existence. I'm sorry, but a just God wouldn't put into place the mechanisms that would make such thinngs as that happen. Think of the God-fearing true believers that are suffering through no fault of their own.

Scroll down to the 26-minute "Gulf Coast devastation" video. This is unbelievable:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8004316/http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/

Please explain how a just God makes this possible. Remember, He created everything, including the conditions that make this happen. How does Christian theology explain this? I've never understood the theological justifications.

 

[Danoff]

Dude, you're off your rocker man.

Thinking of a possibility and having faith in something you know to be true is two completely different things.

Wait, I think I've said that elsewhere....

At least spice it up with different images of dead horses being beaten. But I don't think this discussion has been had before in this thread, so I don't think it qualifies as a dead horse.

Anyway, you're proving my point. It is completely different to think of a possibility vs. having faith in something you know to be true.

When you think it is possible that something is false, you do not have faith that it is true, you do not KNOW it to be true - because you have accepted the possibility that it is not.

I'm sorry Pako, the bible is behind me on this one. There is no room for doubt here. If there is some hesitation in your mind that God exists, you can still be saved - but they're not saving your seat in Heaven yet.

 

[Danoff]

Please explain how a just God makes this possible. Remember, He created everything, including the conditions that make this happen. How does Christian theology explain this? I've never understood the theological justifications.

The lord works in mysterious ways. At one point, he flooded the Earth leaving only one man and his family alive - from which we are all inbred to this very day. RAmen.

 

[Pako]

At least spice it up with different images of dead horses being beaten. But I don't think this discussion has been had before in this thread, so I don't think it qualifies as a dead horse.

Anyway, you're proving my point. It is completely different to think of a possibility vs. having faith in something you know to be true.

When you think it is possible that something is false, you do not have faith that it is true, you do not KNOW it to be true - because you have accepted the possibility that it is not.

I'm sorry Pako, the bible is behind me on this one. There is no room for doubt here. If there is some hesitation in your mind that God exists, you can still be saved - but they're not saving your seat in Heaven yet.

Oh yeah, it deserves the dead horse pic.

Ok, here we go with the examples....

As a father with a son going into the 7th grade this example comes to mind. It is possible for my son to fail the 7th grade, but I have faith that he will not because I know he will succeed and graduate. I know this because he has shown me his ability to get through his grades consistently for the last 6 grade levels. The possibility of his failing doesn't lower my faith in his success.

It seems silly to compare faith in God to faith in my son, but I'm trying to brake it down into something that you can understand the way I understand it to be.

 

[Danoff]

As a father with a son going into the 7th grade this example comes to mind. It is possible for my son to fail the 7th grade, but I have faith that he will not because I know he will succeed and graduate.

You're referring to a more coloquial definition of faith - which is used to mean "likely". That's not the same thing as faith in the religious sense.

Nice try though.

 

[PS]

Oh yeah, it deserves the dead horse pic.

Ok, here we go with the examples....

As a father with a son going into the 7th grade this example comes to mind. It is possible for my son to fail the 7th grade, but I have faith that he will not because I know he will succeed and graduate. I know this because he has shown me his ability to get through his grades consistently for the last 6 grade levels. The possibility of his failing doesn't lower my faith in his success.

It seems silly to compare faith in God to faith in my son, but I'm trying to brake it down into something that you can understand the way I understand it to be.

A bit off-topic, but does your son ever frequent GTP?

 

[Duke]

Who is this Holy Ghost character? Is he related to Casper? Or perhaps Bill Cosby?

No need for this kind of remark from you or PS or code_kev.

 

[James2097]

Ironic that those posting the horse flogging pics have been doing precisely that from the very beggining of this thread.

Posting stuff from the bible to prove anything is about as valid as if I posted something from Harry Potter. Full of great moral story, but complete fiction. I actually applaud religion for its moral message - some people need this - but in a thread like this one (about truth finding), there is zero credibility.

BTW I was serious that the world would be much more peaceful and happy without religion (more precisely those who try and push their beliefs onto others and talk down to them). John Lennon was right. I can only imagine what life would be like...

We'll all end up in the same place at the end of our lives - dead and buried. Gone. So my advice is to either try and find greater factual knowledge (within the scientific method) beyond laughably out-dated belief systems or just be content that you don't really know much. Enjoy friends and be merry, make the most of the time you have.

No need for this kind of remark from you or PS or code_kev.

So I don't qualify to get into the prankster catagory? I thought that casper joke was funny! Lighten up guys, if someone can get offended in a serious way by a little black humour, they are WAAAY too highly strung... maybe thats just what religion does to people. Not the most enjoyable or happy way to live IMO. Live life in a fun way now, cause when you're dead... well thats why they call it being dead.

BTW I have been very close to death - my heart stopped etc. There was nothing, it was all black, just like sleeping without dreaming at all. Thanks to science and modern medicine I say!