Creation vs. Evolution

[Swift]

*Mr. Manson bells, whistles, and alarms go off*


Who are you to tell me what is and isn't moral?

I'm nobody, they are God's rules not mine. They just happen to be the same rules Danoff applies to the current situation.

Oh, BTW, the gov't tells you what's moral, or didn't you know?

 

[(G)]

Ok, so by OUR measurements it seems impossible. But it happened. The flood seemed impossible. But it happened. Jesus Christ rising from the dead was impossible but it happened. God is not bound by our time or knowledge.

Did we not go over most of this? The flood was highly unlikely. There would be loads of evidence.

If Adam named all species, we wouldn't have to. But we do. That is a big gaping hole right there.

Weren't you the one who didn't want what you said treated as science? Then don't act like it is.

 

[Danoff]

So Swift,

Have I addressed your concerns. Are you on board with me on this notion that those who think evolution is responsible for the creation of the human race do not think that humanity is an accident?

BTW: This isn't some kind of trick. If you say yes, then that's great. I have no follow-up to this.

 

[Swift]

So Swift,

Have I addressed your concerns. Are you on board with me on this notion that those who think evolution is responsible for the creation of the human race do not think that humanity is an accident?

BTW: This isn't some kind of trick. If you say yes, then that's great. I have no follow-up to this.

I get the concept. But until it's proven by science that life started by probability of nature, it's a moot point to me.

 

[sicbeing]

Hey no problem swift, I don't wanna be a spectator in this great debate against God and his messangers here.

 

[Danoff]

I get the concept. But until it's proven by science that life started by probability of nature, it's a moot point to me.

It's not really moot to me because I feel that it's a mischaracterization of my position. To say that evolutionists believe that humanity is an accident is similar to saying that we think that when you throw a ball up in the air it comes down by accident. It makes no sense in my mind why one would think such a thing and I think that misunderstanding may be the root of much of the difficulty in this discussion.

Also, I'm just tired of refuting it since it's one of the main ways that creationists pick at the concept evolution.

 

[PS]

I'm nobody, they are God's rules not mine. They just happen to be the same rules Danoff applies to the current situation.

Oh, BTW, the gov't tells you what's moral, or didn't you know?

Actually the Government tells me what's legal and what isn't (the Canadian one, anyway). What I do in my own house with consenting adults is noone's business, especially to an international organization telling people what is right and wrong (*left).

 

[Zardoz]

Meanwhile, 2,227 replies later, that noise you hear in the background is the sound of a dead horse being beaten...

 

[(G)]

Ow... I think we just got owned.

112 pages, and Creationists nor evolutionists have convinced no one. I think I'll call it a day.

 

[DadtheWheel]

This conversation took place after scanning through this thread:

Mr. DTW: “Baby, why do you believe in God even though there is no proof of him or her or whatever it may be?”
Mrs. DTW: “Because the only way any of us can ever win is by loving God.”
Mr. DTW: “I don’t follow you…”
Mrs. DTW: “When I die if God is real than he will take me to heaven and reward me with love and happiness for eternity. If God is not real than when I die there will not be a spirit of me to remember who I was, or that I had spent a life worshipping a supreme being that was never real. So the way I see it, it is a win-win situation.”

As for me I am an Anthropologist so I believe in God, in fact I believe in every God of every culture equally. And yes I think it should be taught in school. To me it has never been a question of who is right or wrong, instead it is a question of freedom of choice, religion, and very much a part of most cultures.

Those who proclaim the ignorance of the Creationist are simply playing the same game as those who proclaim the damnation of the Evolutionists.

 

[PS]

You just pwned half this thread.



[edit]

Damn, he's been here since 2003, and this is his first post. He must have followed this whole thing!

Wow. That's...just...wow.

I nominate that for best post of 2005.

[edit 2]

Just for resonance:

Those who proclaim the ignorance of the Creationist are simply playing the same game as those who proclaim the damnation of the Evolutionists.

 

[Danoff]

This conversation took place after scanning through this thread:

Mr. DTW: “Baby, why do you believe in God even though there is no proof of him or her or whatever it may be?”
Mrs. DTW: “Because the only way any of us can ever win is by loving God.”
Mr. DTW: “I don’t follow you…”
Mrs. DTW: “When I die if God is real than he will take me to heaven and reward me with love and happiness for eternity. If God is not real than when I die there will not be a spirit of me to remember who I was, or that I had spent a life worshipping a supreme being that was never real. So the way I see it, it is a win-win situation.”

Except that she'll still go to hell because she doesn't know if God is real.

Plus, how can you believe something is true based on contingency? It's silly.

 

[Zardoz]

...I nominate that for best post of 2005...

Good candidate for it, that's for sure. Very well put.

 

[PS]

I think it had the most purpose of any of them, anyway. I mean, he's been here for 2 years and that's his first post.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I said where did god come from and you said where did the mass come from.

Well i then return from where did god create the mass? You cant create something from nothing, though if you found a way please tell!

 

[DadtheWheel]

Um yes first post? I don’t care for on-line chat, but this debate was too good to miss. It is after all one of the questions Cultural Anthropology addresses when dealing with any culture that has a religion.

@Danoff: I never said she doesn’t think God is real and neither did she. On the contrary she is very devout in her faith. What she said, and you obviously missed, is that her faith is strong enough for her, but if there is no God than in the end it won’t matter. Let’s try this another way, will taking vitamins help you live longer? Maybe, maybe not, but how does it hurt to take them anyway? Try reading my comment over but this time with a little less predetermined damnation.

@PS: I think you may have missed the point of my last comment. There is no God, and yes we evolved from a common simian ancestor; this is however my personal view. In Anthropology you must always strive to separate your personal view from what you are studying and look at all things in an impersonal “third person” manner. By saying:

“Those who proclaim the ignorance of the Creationist are simply playing the same game as those who proclaim the damnation of the Evolutionists.”

That as an Anthropologist (personal beliefs aside) discounting even one belief robs from the whole; and when both sides are doing the same thing nothing can be learned. I hope that clears things up a bit.

Second post and back to the shadows for another two year hibernation…

 

[PS]

I said where did god come from and you said where did the mass come from.

Well i then return from where did god create the mass? You cant create something from nothing, though if you found a way please tell!

Asking me?

It's been done in labs. Famine said something about it a while back. Too lazy to find where tho .

 

[DadtheWheel]

I almost forgot another of your flawed points Danoff, how can you believe in contingency? In the simplest example I can think of at the moment (I am sure others can give better) and I will admit this is very oversimplified:

How do you know your car will start in the morning? You don’t, you just believe it will. So by your own reasoning that is belief in contingency…

Third post, now I am one year in the hole!

 

[PS]

@PS: I think you may have missed the point of my last comment. There is no God, and yes we evolved from a common simian ancestor; this is however my personal view. In Anthropology you must always strive to separate your personal view from what you are studying and look at all things in an impersonal “third person” manner. By saying:

“Those who proclaim the ignorance of the Creationist are simply playing the same game as those who proclaim the damnation of the Evolutionists.”

That as an Anthropologist (personal beliefs aside) discounting even one belief robs from the whole; and when both sides are doing the same thing nothing can be learned. I hope that clears things up a bit.

Second post and back to the shadows for another two year hibernation…

I got that, I was just surprised how profound your first post was. Most people's are like "heyz you guyz like nawz n spinnrz n btches n sht?!" or something stupid like that.

 

[Danoff]

@Danoff: I never said she doesn’t think God is real and neither did she. On the contrary she is very devout in her faith. What she said, and you obviously missed, is that her faith is strong enough for her, but if there is no God than in the end it won’t matter. Let’s try this another way, will taking vitamins help you live longer? Maybe, maybe not, but how does it hurt to take them anyway? Try reading my comment over but this time with a little less predetermined damnation.

I don't really know how you missed it in there. Let me point out specifically where she doesn't have enough faith to go to Heaven.

When I die if God is real

BAM!!! RIGHT THERE! IF God is real. That's not faith, that's doubt. There should be no question in the mind of the faithful that God is real. If there is, then you do not truly believe. If there is not, then you do not need to make the statement that Mrs. DTW was making.

Try reading THIS one over with a little less predetermined damnation. I know you're close to the subject here since this is your wife, but surely you can see how what I'm saying is true. One is either faithful or not, there is no half way.

 

[Danoff]

I almost forgot another of your flawed points Danoff, how can you believe in contingency? In the simplest example I can think of at the moment (I am sure others can give better) and I will admit this is very oversimplified:

How do you know your car will start in the morning? You don’t, you just believe it will. So by your own reasoning that is belief in contingency…

Third post, now I am one year in the hole!

I do not have faith that my car will start in the morning. I think it is likely. If your wife thinks that God "likely" exists, then she will go to hell. She must have FAITH that God exists.

Try again.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Asking me?

It's been done in labs. Famine said something about it a while back. Too lazy to find where tho .

I was actually asking swift or pako

 

[Pako]

I don't really know how you missed it in there. Let me point out specifically where she doesn't have enough faith to go to Heaven.



BAM!!! RIGHT THERE! IF God is real. That's not faith, that's doubt. There should be no question in the mind of the faithful that God is real. If there is, then you do not truly believe. If there is not, then you do not need to make the statement that Mrs. DTW was making.

Try reading THIS one over with a little less predetermined damnation. I know you're close to the subject here since this is your wife, but surely you can see how what I'm saying is true. One is either faithful or not, there is no half way.

Sorry to jump right in on a response to your post DTW, but I couldn't help it. danoff, how can you make a statement like that? It is common for people to question their faith, which I think is healthy. This thread alone has strengthened my faith in God and I'm grateful for this forum and thread for making that possible. It sounds like Mrs. DTW was hedging her bets on God's existence. I'm sorry but you are very wrong on this one danoff. I think you need to calm down just a little. There was no BAM or RIGHT THERE... Take a deep breath and relax now.

 

[PS]

Sorry to jump right in on a response to your post DTW, but I couldn't help it. danoff, how can you make a statement like that? It is common for people to question their faith, which I think is healthy. This thread alone has strengthened my faith in God and I'm grateful for this forum and thread for making that possible. It sounds like Mrs. DTW was hedging her bets on God's existence. I'm sorry but you are very wrong on this one danoff. I think you need to calm down just a little. There was no BAM or RIGHT THERE... Take a deep breath and relax now.

And smoke a [super]joint and chill, like any self-respecting Pastafarian.

 

[James2097]

Just saying I get PS's humour also. Only stupid people wouldn't. We should burn those stupid people, maybe crucify them, that would be fun.

I can't believe how many dead-horses need to be flogged, its really quite cruel.

BTW we can make matter out of "nothing". Just as matter can be turned into energy, energy can be transformed into matter. I believe there was an experiment where this was achieved, proving the validity of much conceptual physics work. Can Famine (or someone smart) please verify this?

 

[Famine]

I will verify it with an equation.

E=mc^2.

Pako & DTW: DTW's wife sounds agnostic - the hedge-better of the world of faith. "I believe in "x" because if I do I'll get "good thing y" if it's true and nothing bad if it isn't. If I don't believe in "x" and it's true, I WON'T get "good thing y", but "bad thing z" instead. So I'd rather believe in "x" because that way nothing bad will happen if I'm wrong."

DTW - I drive a Mazda...

Swift - That's exactly what I said, dictionary definitions aside. He had to name an animal/plant/fungus/bacterium/virus(/prion?) every 3 seconds, so didn't have time for it anyway. Out of interest, which minister performed the ceremony?

 

[James2097]

I will verify it with an equation.

E=mc^2.

Well yeah, but I thought some scientists actually created some matter out of "nothing", kinda like a mini big-bang or something (I know, not exactly, but the same principle)? I read it a LOONG time ago...

 

[Duke]

"Hedging your bets" is the worst possible reason to believe in God.

If you die, and there is a God, He will not be happy you didn't believe in Him with Faith. And if there is no God, you have wasted your life in devotion to a master that doesn't exist.

 

[Zardoz]

...DTW's wife sounds agnostic - the hedge-better of the world of faith. "I believe in "x" because if I do I'll get "good thing y" if it's true and nothing bad if it isn't. If I don't believe in "x" and it's true, I WON'T get "good thing y", but "bad thing z" instead. So I'd rather believe in "x" because that way nothing bad will happen if I'm wrong."...

Well, sort of, but by definition, an agnostic says its impossible to know whether or not God exists:

Web definitions of agnosticism

Basically, if you're an agnostic, you're formally shrugging your shoulders and saying "Who knows?"

 

[Pako]

"Hedging your bets" is the worst possible reason to believe in God.

If you die, and there is a God, He will not be happy you didn't believe in Him with Faith. And if there is no God, you have wasted your life in devotion to a master that doesn't exist.

1.) There no way that you can know how God "feels" in that situation. You are saved by the grace of Jesus. Nothing more, nothing less.
2.) Dedicating your lifestyle to a God that teaches love and forgiveness for others is not wasting any ones time. If it was, I wish more people would waste their time that way, the world would be a better place with all that wasted life.