CREDIT GRIND - WTC 600 Tokyo Express - Glitches are Dead.

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I would, if i had that car. It's not available for sale right now. :( Same as the Lancia.

I tried some more cars, but can't catch up. I used one of the cars, the subaru Rallye road car in the other Tokyo 600pp Race (5 rounds) and won it, but the same car on the 12 round track won't get me near the first few cars.

I tried this one too:

and the speed is quite ok, but i lose much time in the corners, because the car seems to turn really bad and i need to slow down a lot. maybe its and older tune.

i guess i just can't beat it with normal cars, because they are all too slow to catch up on the straight if they handle well.

will try the tomahawk now again then.
 
At first I thought the standing water set off the high speed wobble but if you just kinda let the car float around on the straight the standing water doesnt affect it at all, try to turn the wheel just the slightest though and there will be a massive wreck with your name on it.
It's the slammed front ride height on the Tomo that's the main culprit in causing the instability down the straight at speed.

I have been 20:00 flat a bunch of times with a 1:27 best lap but that 19:00 mark still eludes me, dam AI.
Keep at it m8, faster lap times are possible, you just have to learn what speeds it's capable of doing on certain sections with this tune. On my first few attempts, my times were in the 20-21mins but as I pushed the cornering speeds my times have dropped to 19's and low 18's now.
 
I would, if i had that car. It's not available for sale right now. :( Same as the Lancia.

I tried some more cars, but can't catch up. I used one of the cars, the subaru Rallye road car in the other Tokyo 600pp Race (5 rounds) and won it, but the same car on the 12 round track won't get me near the first few cars.

I tried this one too:

and the speed is quite ok, but i lose much time in the corners, because the car seems to turn really bad and i need to slow down a lot. maybe its and older tune.

i guess i just can't beat it with normal cars, because they are all too slow to catch up on the straight if they handle well.

will try the tomahawk now again then.
If you are learning tomahawk now, for start, TC5 FM6, ASM on, countersteering strong, and switch to manual gearbox put in 7 and run whole race in 7th gear. Very gently on first lap, and watch your maximum speed and try not to go over 450 km/h for more, if you are driving faster, car is becoming unstable in higher speed.
My first race was 27 minutes with penalties on every lap, but after 10 races I learned where to brake and how to steer with those comfort tires and getting ok times, and some penalties now and then 😁
 
The pikes peak one? I remember it from GT2, i think, where you could "fly" it with abnormal high speed. But i don't have it, and i guess it's only in used cars? By the way, is there a way to check used cars from outside the game? Some companion App maybe?

and

is right, but unfortunately:

this is true. i tested it with automatic, and it simply stays in 5th gear around 240 km/h, which is way to slow to get the AI, even on easy. Thats why the DP100 is no option for me.

I bought the GTR Nissan and will try that later, and then try the Tomahawk again with Settings from the video in the first post here.
I totally forgot about that,its not fast enough to keep up on the long straight with auto trans.
Depending if you have any of the engine swaps,the focus with the gt-lm engine swap,i can do this on a non stopper,if i remember its on SH tyres but i found it quite forgiving to drive.
You`ll find a car that clicks eventually then you just move onto different cars,personally i would try to get used to manual shifting,its easier to control the car then you can use the DP100 to your hearts content.Pick a car and just keep on doing time trials,on a track that you know well,with manual shifting.Once you get the hang of it i very much doubt you will ever go back to auto trans,it really livens things up. 👍
 
I’m hoping we see the escudo in the next cars 5 cars from the legendary hagertys garage, i keep checking it hourly to see what comes up!!!
 
Ford Focus with the GT-LM

18 Ford Focus RS,NOT the ST.I
Ok, will try to find a video for this and try. I trid the focus race car myself but couldn't get enoough speed out of it.

is there no car thats strong enough to use intermediates and still stay under 600pp? those tires would make it a lot better, but they cost so much pp. I tested some setups, but they were always too slow.

I could win Sardegna 15 laps race with GT500 Supra quite easily, though it also has those very strict rules about crashing. Too bad there is no Supra GT500 like car for 600pp, lol. I love it.

Edit: I cheked that engine swap thing, so it's pure luck with roulette tickets. I don't think i have it yet. Too bad. I get 1 Ticket every day for driving a bit, is that the only way of getting them? I got all menus cleared except one extra menu.
 
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Needle in a haystack. Click, measure, click, measure, click, measure
Exactly! I noticed for this to be <600PP, the RotG for the first measurement speed needs to be low, like <0.5. I'm assuming there are thousands of variants that'll work, but it's finding the exact combination of settings that's, statistically, very improbable. Think of alllll the combinations possible with front ride height at say, 71 - you have (i think) 30-combinations of just rear ride height (70 - 100?). And for each rear height you have every combination of anything you can adjust - AR-Bars F/R, expansion F/R, compression F/R, Freq F/R, Toe F/R, all the Diff settings F/R, ECU, Ballast, Ballast positioning, other power thingy, Stock/Manual/Racing transmission lol

To be extra debbie-downer, take Ballast (0-200), Ballast position (-50-50) and ECU (70-100). For ballast you have 201-weights (0 counts as 1) & 101 positions (0 counts). That alone gives you 20,301 combinations. ECU has 30 levels * 20,301 = 609,030 different combinations. For math sake, assume 1-second per combination: 609,030 / 60 = 10,150.5-Minutes / 60 = 169.2-Hours / 24 = ~7.1-days if going 24-hours a day for 7-days lol. Factor in the 30-levels for the other power setting and you're looking at ~211.5-days straight (18,270,900 combinations). And those 18.3-Million combinations are just the 4-variables ECU/Bal/BalPos/Power. 900-combinations of ride height x 18.3M = 16,443,810,000 (16.4B combinations = 521.4-Years at 1 per second....)

The math is easy to figure out if you have the game in front of you: VarA# * VarB# * VarC# * ....VarN# (N being the final variable). You'll probably end up with a number with 40+ 0's that would take Hundreds of thousands to millions of years to check at 1-per second.

That being said, I'll keep looking for one lol!
 
Exactly! I noticed for this to be <600PP, the RotG for the first measurement speed needs to be low, like <0.5. I'm assuming there are thousands of variants that'll work, but it's finding the exact combination of settings that's, statistically, very improbable. Think of alllll the combinations possible with front ride height at say, 71 - you have (i think) 30-combinations of just rear ride height (70 - 100?). And for each rear height you have every combination of anything you can adjust - AR-Bars F/R, expansion F/R, compression F/R, Freq F/R, Toe F/R, all the Diff settings F/R, ECU, Ballast, Ballast positioning, other power thingy, Stock/Manual/Racing transmission lol

To be extra debbie-downer, take Ballast (0-200), Ballast position (-50-50) and ECU (70-100). For ballast you have 201-weights (0 counts as 1) & 101 positions (0 counts). That alone gives you 20,301 combinations. ECU has 30 levels * 20,301 = 609,030 different combinations. For math sake, assume 1-second per combination: 609,030 / 60 = 10,150.5-Minutes / 60 = 169.2-Hours / 24 = ~7.1-days if going 24-hours a day for 7-days lol. Factor in the 30-levels for the other power setting and you're looking at ~211.5-days straight (18,270,900 combinations). And those 18.3-Million combinations are just the 4-variables ECU/Bal/BalPos/Power. 900-combinations of ride height x 18.3M = 16,443,810,000 (16.4B combinations = 521.4-Years at 1 per second....)

The math is easy to figure out if you have the game in front of you: VarA# * VarB# * VarC# * ....VarN# (N being the final variable). You'll probably end up with a number with 40+ 0's that would take Hundreds of thousands to millions of years to check at 1-per second.

That being said, I'll keep looking for one lol!

Well, here are my observations:

1. Getting an artificially low PP is about finding a sweet spot where the car is so unstable that it almost but not quite fails to complete the simulated performance tests when the "measure" button is pressed. You can see the glitched tunes have extremely slow quarter-mile times, like over 30 seconds. The measure button also performs handling and turning tests. When the car fails to complete any of the tests, that's when you get the triangle in place of the PP rating.

2. The original Tomahawk glitch achieved its low PP by creating a transmission setup that confused the AI into never shifting out of first gear during the tests.

3. The newer Tomahawk glitch achieved it by slamming the front end so that it becomes massively unstable at high speeds.

4. The most recent Tomahawk glitch (with the huge ballast) achieved it by using disastrous toe settings to loosen its grip, coupled with terrible weight imbalance to make it even more unstable.

So really a good 98%+ of all possible tune combinations can be dismissed without testing them, since they define a relatively stable car. Finding a good glitch tune will be about introducing a flaw into the car's handling that the AI cannot handle, but that human drivers can (like the original transmission glitch).

Hope that's helpful! Good luck!
 
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Alien didn't move for blue flag while I was approaching in over 400 km/h...
I hit him so hard that he lost few pixels 😂
IMG_20220912_201617.jpg
 
Ok, will try to find a video for this and try. I trid the focus race car myself but couldn't get enoough speed out of it.

is there no car thats strong enough to use intermediates and still stay under 600pp? those tires would make it a lot better, but they cost so much pp. I tested some setups, but they were always too slow.

I could win Sardegna 15 laps race with GT500 Supra quite easily, though it also has those very strict rules about crashing. Too bad there is no Supra GT500 like car for 600pp, lol. I love it.

Edit: I cheked that engine swap thing, so it's pure luck with roulette tickets. I don't think i have it yet. Too bad. I get 1 Ticket every day for driving a bit, is that the only way of getting them? I got all menus cleared except one extra menu.
Reading through the replies, sure there are lots of different cars to cater to your driving style - both glitch and non-glitch. It sounds like you've at least done some research there. So a few things about this race you need to understand in order to conquer it was many different cars.
  1. The track dries out the whole race and is basically "normal" after the 3rd lap. That is if...
  2. You learn the driving line for this track as the rest of the track will remain wet outside of the driving line. The wet area will cause instability in accelerating/braking/turning - avoid it.
  3. Don't be deterred by not being in 1st place, really, unless it's like like laps 10/11 - The AI have faster top-end speed on the straights (mostly), and the fastest AI (NSX, GT-R, That RX-8-Am something) all pit stop like 2-3 times during the race - this is where you win this race...
  4. Pit stop strategy - Detuned Gr.4 Hurrican with SH's can no-pit the whole race (but slower on the straight) or the Alpine 220 tune with RM's, no pit the whole race, but muuuuuch faster. If you pit 0x or 1x, you're going to win sans tons of penalties. You just have to not panic when you're not leading by the 2nd or 3rd lap because the game sort of trains you to think that's the case with essentially all the other races.
  5. This race is (can-be) easy once you learn the driving line and understand that'll you'll gain those positions when the AI pit-stops and you don't.
  6. This last piece of advice is a little meta - Force yourself to lower the traction control to TC1 and just practice. Don't give-up just because you spin out coming out of a turn or start sliding when accelerating - learn to not mash the throttle and brake. It'll feel a little uneasy at first, but so was riding a bike without training wheels and (I would hope) you didn't look back wishing you still had them on. I would say the same for automatic vs manual, because I only started manual a few months ago and now it's second nature, but you can still be very fast with AT (AM DPI notwithstanding)
 
So a few things about this race you need to understand
Thanks for your time and in depth explanation.

What i really can't get, is how this race is SO much harder than the rest (chili pepper races aside, because difficulty doesn't count for them). I could win sardegna and le mans high credit races easily, but those were with higer PP limit. So i tried the 600pp tokyo Race with 5 laps and could win first try with one of those WTC600 tunes. Usually, on easy, the races are a challenge if you use any car that fits, but are easy if you use the "right" car. But this race doesn't have to have that one car to make it doable for me. All those tunes i tried made strong enough cars go under 600pp with making them hard to control (all speaking from my perspective). For example the A220 was so hard to controll, i couldn't stop twisting in corners.

Even with the same NSX using this tune

I was constantly losing time to the first AI (doing 2:16+ laps), so that even with more pits he was still ahead of me, and other cars too.

Maybe this is just one race you can't beat without being somewhat good at racing or spend a lot of time training, maybe difficulty level is no factor for this race. There is no car that can bypass my lack of skill. :)

Since i tried so many cars and tunes, i guess i just leave this race be and do others. I barely play racing games and GT7 only for fun, so i'm not gonna learn manual shift only because of this one race, hehe. Aprecciate all your help though.
 
For example the A220 was so hard to controll, i couldn't stop twisting in corners.
I've put on close to 4.5k miles with the A220 on this race. I can assure you, the reason you're spinning out (assuming you're using TC5) is you're driving on the wet portion of the track. Even with TC5, if you mash the throttle/brake on a wet portion of the track, good chance you'll have instability and unless you know how to counter/correct, you'll get penalty and/or damage. Unless you're using A220 or Tomahawk, you can only afford maybe 1-2 penalties.

I'll add, if you can finish the race <28-minutes, you'll win. This translates to roughly <2:18 laps with 1-pitstop (1st lap, pit lap and in-lap will be longer).

*Edit: Watch a youtube video or two of someone getting fast lap times with A220 (I believe @Grimm6Jack posted one in this thread a few months back that helped me improve my time) and pay attention to the driving line and speeds (although don't try or think you should be attempting it at the edge lol). AND PRACTICE THE RACE!!! It's by far the best race they have (of the grinders) and once you understand the concepts, its endless fun and the challenge becomes the best thing about the race.
 
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So, i managed to win with A220, but since this is also a glitch, i can use tomahawk too, which is a bit faster i think.

Still no way, to beat it with a legit car. No idea, how people do it, since all non-glitch cars i used are too slow, to catch up. Need to drive perfectly to get close to them, and don't bumo into walls for penalties. And since this track is without any space next to the street, almost every brake or turning mistake leads to a wall, sometimes, AI behaviour leads to a wall as well. :D

Not gonna try any more cars, spend so much money on this already. Just gonna use glitch cars to win and get money.
 
So, i managed to win with A220, but since this is also a glitch, i can use tomahawk too, which is a bit faster i think.

Still no way, to beat it with a legit car. No idea, how people do it, since all non-glitch cars i used are too slow, to catch up. Need to drive perfectly to get close to them, and don't bumo into walls for penalties. And since this track is without any space next to the street, almost every brake or turning mistake leads to a wall, sometimes, AI behaviour leads to a wall as well. :D

Not gonna try any more cars, spend so much money on this already. Just gonna use glitch cars to win and get money.

Learn how to do manual shifts with a pad like I do. Once you mastered it, use the Aston Martin VGT, that car can finish the race without pitting, but it requires early shifts because it's redlines are powerless.
 
Ya think????
Well of course the car itself is faster, but also like on ice, so what i meant was, that "my" race time with A220 is not that much less than "my" race time with tomahawk. I think its 25, to 23 minutes or something right now. :)
 
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So, i managed to win with A220, but since this is also a glitch, i can use tomahawk too, which is a bit faster i think.

Still no way, to beat it with a legit car. No idea, how people do it, since all non-glitch cars i used are too slow, to catch up. Need to drive perfectly to get close to them, and don't bumo into walls for penalties. And since this track is without any space next to the street, almost every brake or turning mistake leads to a wall, sometimes, AI behaviour leads to a wall as well. :D

Not gonna try any more cars, spend so much money on this already. Just gonna use glitch cars to win and get money.
It is beyond easy to win this race with the Aston DP100 and no glitches. If you short shift this car it is far faster than the AI. When I use this car I am leading before the end of the first lap, I usually pass Gallo in the braking area to the hairpin. I lap up every car 2 times competing this race frequently and lap everyone twice except 2nd and 3rd every time I run this race with the DP100.
 
Yes, i know, the DP100 sounds sick, but as stated, i'm not learning manual shifts for just one race. Using manual to stay in 7th with tomahawk is the most i'll do. :D

Thanks though, i'll read about some Lambo tunes right now, maybe those work, because they have more power. Seriously how fast is the AI on this track? I tried a GTR 17 NISMO Setting that got me up to 320 km/h at the straight, but the first 3 Cars are still hard to reach, even on the straight. AI can't be using 600pp cars, there is no way, lol.
 
They cheat, they use Soft tires on a wet track, when you get penalized they straight up run over you and never bother to avoid you and keep the same pace they had and that’s also because they also ignore any blue flags making your life impossible.

I get even every time I see gallo in the hairpin I legit run into the back of him going 180mph with no success, (he glides to the barriers and spins hard lolol) the dude will spin out wait like 5 seconds get last place and by the end of that lap get back in first place when I pass him up again 🤣🤷🤷🤷
 
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They cheat, they use Soft tires on a wet track, when you get penalized they straight up run over you and never bother to avoid you and keep the same pace they had and that’s also because they also ignore any blue flags making your life impossible.

I get even every time I see gallo in the hairpin I legit run into the back of him going 180mph with no success, (he glides to the barriers and spins hard lolol) the dude will spin out wait like 5 seconds get last place and by the end of that lap get back in first place when I pass him up again 🤣🤷🤷🤷
Yes they do cheat
I overtook one by mistake under yellow that just appeared as I was side by side and they slammed the brakes and before I could give the place back, 3s penalty.
When they pass me under yellow, no penalty.

I predict the rain on spa
Enter just as it starting to sprinkle, exit when it is starting to be classed as rain.
By the time i get 1/4 through the lap, track is 1/3 wet, yet I can not even gain 1s on the AI infront even though I am on inters and they're on softs kicking up rooster tails
If I tried the same I would be sliding into the walls, like lando did in russia 2021

The Bolted down physics of the AI is annoying.
They just have to feather touch you to spin you off the racing line.
You ram them at 200km/h when they're doing 100km/h, they go slightly wide while you are off into the barriers.

The AI has the programming of a train
Wilk on far right, was out of fuel.
The rest of the AI would not overtake because that means getting off the racing line.
c9bff85f260220c473b91ac8edf30f3d_photo.webp
 
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Hi Habla,

I have no problem with winning Tokyo 600pp with the Corvette. I am about 1-2 minutes ahead of Mr. Gallo, when I use automatic shifting and currently with two pits. The key for this is cruising - let the Vette fly without pushing it - just give it an impulse with gaz when turning into the corners and Brake early in the hairpin - I use the thin lines next to the street markings that start a lot before the braking zone is flashing. And don't be shy - use counter steering. Overtake everyone without being on the gas as the Vette is much more stable then (because you sometimes need to do a lot of steering, when AI goes crazy). But I am sure - everyone can win a race with the Vette with a bit of training and a cold mind. As said - most important is not to push it too hard.


With the Tomo it is very likely the same - the car does most. Before most of the turns - just leave the throttle loose and turn in - in most cases the car will do everything correct and in the beginning - it doesn't matter of you take let's say 30 seconds of penalties in a race. So far I think I only have 1 race without penalties. The only rule that seems to be very important: don't go over 505 kph if you are not a extremely skilled driver.


What is funny - this is not really simracing for my taste - but it really trains you - you will be massively better on most other tracks after some.grinding with this in principle unstable cars.


I so far have learned additionally - if the track is dry and the tires are still above 50% you can also go to 515kph without a crash party. And without steering input the car will always pull to the right at first when it goes crazy. I am not yet absolutely sure - but it seems to always happen, when the revs go above 8500/min. In the lower gears (1-5, 6 when wet).

BR K.
 
Well, i could achieve a 3rd place with an NSX. I got Gallo right after he left his 2nd pit, but the white car driven by japanese AI was still ahead of me and doesn't pit a second time, and then, the black Supra got me in the last turn. I don't think there is a more difficult race on easy than this one. Also, you can't say if a car is good up until lap 6 or 7 and if i get only one penalty, race is over, with a non-glitch car, because:
They cheat

Yes they do cheat
AI bumps you in the back to make you spin, or bumps in the side during a turn, they don't get penalties by raming the wall, but often enough make you toch the wall and laugh at you. Really annoying in such a race, where you get so many handicaps.

@Rotherbach K
Well, yes, maybe, but the corvette is a glitch car too, so if use those, i can just use Tomahawk an make it quicker. I found it helping to set acceleration both to 60 and it seems it does corners better on higher speed, so the only real slowdown is the hairpin. Besides, there is no need to be over 500 km/h, because you win anyway, so i just stay at 450 on the straight.

By now, i can win the race with glitch cars, but still not with regular ones. Sad, but acceptable, i guess. ;)
 
Yes they do cheat
I overtook one by mistake under yellow that just appeared as I was side by side and they slammed the brakes and before I could give the place back, 3s penalty.
When they pass me under yellow, no penalty.

I predict the rain on spa
Enter just as it starting to sprinkle, exit when it is starting to be classed as rain.
By the time i get 1/4 through the lap, track is 1/3 wet, yet I can not even gain 1s on the AI infront even though I am on inters and they're on softs kicking up rooster tails
If I tried the same I would be sliding into the walls, like lando did in russia 2021

The Bolted down physics of the AI is annoying.
They just have to feather touch you to spin you off the racing line.
You ram them at 200km/h when they're doing 100km/h, they go slightly wide while you are off into the barriers.

The AI has the programming of a train
Wilk on far right, was out of fuel.
The rest of the AI would not overtake because that means getting off the racing line.
c9bff85f260220c473b91ac8edf30f3d_photo.webp
Spa is freaking hilarious to me, one time I know C Mcewen had to pit in because he was running out of gas since everyone was going in with 3-4 percentage left, so it started to rain of course and as I was making the turn, like you mentioned that train of AI(him) literally t boned me trying to pit in, but doing so missed his pit entrance because the track was slippery, tell me why I decided to follow him since I was two laps ahead anyways.
Lol I was expecting him to run out of gas but nope, he kept driving like business was usual, when I followed him into the pits his fuel reading was 0 🤭

On that note I try to have fun with the ai when they piss me off In the last laps, that Tokyo is super slippery though, with enough force is fun sending the Ai Tokyo drifting across the expressway 😬

The first time I ever tried Tokyo I cried of frustrating with like 2 minutes worth of penalties and wondering why PD thought this was a good idea,
Now I’m having fun stacking penalties upto a 1:00 on my last lap and have the AI literally push me all the way to the finish line 👀👀, never fails
 
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I could finally win.

I used a GTR 17 Tune from this forum and was able to do it. I could reach 3rd place within the first laps and then take 1st after UK Guy and Gallo pitted. Then i did 2 more rounds and made my own pit for fuel, just enough to finish the race. i came out 5th or 6th and (most important) 4 seconds in ahead of japanese guy. coul get 3rd again, when Gallo pitted second time, one round earlier than usually i think, but UK guy didn't stop and i thought, damn maybe he uses only one stop. He didn't, next round he was out, so i had to keep the white japanese car only 2 more rounds behind me. He was always 4 seconds behind, but last lap was not my best so he came close to 1 second, but on the straight i could always get some time, so it was enough, he was even catched last minute by black Supra and Gallo, but i could win by 2 seconds, lol.

Will never do this again, only glitched for money, haha.

I'd like to thank all of your for your patience, your help and advices. What a great community. 🥰
 
I tried the Huracan for the first time this morning, installed turbo and detuned to 600, a real walk in the park, and such a fun experience after I did the F40 again, ofcourse grinding nothing can beat the TH but I would be braindead if I only ride Tokyo with that 🤣🤣
 
Well, i could achieve a 3rd place with an NSX. I got Gallo right after he left his 2nd pit, but the white car driven by japanese AI was still ahead of me and doesn't pit a second time, and then, the black Supra got me in the last turn. I don't think there is a more difficult race on easy than this one. Also, you can't say if a car is good up until lap 6 or 7 and if i get only one penalty, race is over, with a non-glitch car, because:



AI bumps you in the back to make you spin, or bumps in the side during a turn, they don't get penalties by raming the wall, but often enough make you toch the wall and laugh at you. Really annoying in such a race, where you get so many handicaps.

@Rotherbach K
Well, yes, maybe, but the corvette is a glitch car too, so if use those, i can just use Tomahawk an make it quicker. I found it helping to set acceleration both to 60 and it seems it does corners better on higher speed, so the only real slowdown is the hairpin. Besides, there is no need to be over 500 km/h, because you win anyway, so i just stay at 450 on the straight.

By now, i can win the race with glitch cars, but still not with regular ones. Sad, but acceptable, i guess. ;)
Hi,
That is in general correct - but if you drive the Tomo in automatic - you need 2 pits as experienced driver, as not so experienced driver you need 3 to avoid massive penalties.

So I think it is in general easier to drive with the Corvette.


BR K
 
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