CSL update - blue mode
- Thread starter oldphart
- 429 comments
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- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
Unfortunately ffb feeling it's a very personal taste, like we have in food, movies etc. Over the course of my sim racing adventure's I discovered that it's very difficult to adapt, even for your self, to one specifically taste of ffb feeling. Tweaks to tweaks all over again to achieve best results, then again tweaks to change completely your ffb feeling. For me it's frustrating but also challenging and rewarding when you hit the right settings in your wheel to get yours best ffb feeling. My point is that don't ask for best settings because there aren't. Every wheel is different even though we speak for the same brand like Csl elite. Although you must have a starting point. For me, it's a lighter wheel at first with no damper effects (I hated it) and then play with the settings to find the best feeling.
- 23
- Germany
- Gruzzlebeard1
JamCar0ne
Premium
- 1,943
- Illinois
- JamCar0ne
I've noticed this as well. Some cars are now much harder to get through corners when SEN is AUT. Checking cockpit view will reveal the in game wheel rotating much differently than what I am doing. Can't say if this is a result of the last update though, since I haven't been using my baseline setup that long. But have always felt the game moved steering values around a little bit from time to time.
- 23
- Germany
- Gruzzlebeard1
Very strange. I also checked my favorite cars in cockpit view. But in my case the wheel movements were absolutely synchronous. Maybe it is car dependent?
@RA1784 & @JamCar0ne - which car did you use?
@RA1784 & @JamCar0ne - which car did you use?
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- 327
- ::1
I haven't noticed any of those really odd vibration issues in the last few patches. I'm using the standard configurations on the wheel itself; not sure about the in-game configurations, but I think I only turned up sensitivity to 8 to get a quicker turn-in.
The rev LEDs are still not supported, though.
The rev LEDs are still not supported, though.
- 472
- France
- poumpoumk
Guys...
GT Sport simulates HEAVY understeers like this no matter the wheel.
At the beginning of the CSL Elite support this understeer vibration was really stronger but they corrected it and now it works.
The only problem they introduced with the 1.23 is Auto SEN that doesn't work anymore. Basically each car you drive have a steering angle of 1080° now so perhaps this is why you feel something is different... Set the SEN between 720 / 540 for the race cars
GT Sport simulates HEAVY understeers like this no matter the wheel.
At the beginning of the CSL Elite support this understeer vibration was really stronger but they corrected it and now it works.
The only problem they introduced with the 1.23 is Auto SEN that doesn't work anymore. Basically each car you drive have a steering angle of 1080° now so perhaps this is why you feel something is different... Set the SEN between 720 / 540 for the race cars
- 543
- Western Sahara
Except my T150 didn't act like that & it probably would just clip for such forces. I remember the purple mode not having it & was just super smooth with much less road feel. Gr.3 and Gr.4 hardly give the rattle effect, or it's very fast on/off! (Because of slick tyres?)
Road FF cars on street tyres will often shake violently the whole time you accelerate from corner... Other games simulate such FFB as heavily damaged car! Yesterday i drove FR cars on SH tyres and had absolutely no idea what to do when tyres started to loose grip, sometimes the wheel just went left and right with mild 'buzzing' and heavy knocking sound... Not right. (Not to mention how randomly it happens, it's hardly understeer effect, i'd rather call it a bug.)
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- 543
- Western Sahara
You missed what i said, you ignored the context and left quite important part out of the quote... Then you came up with very basic driving introductions how to avoid understeer, all this starting with "lol"... None of this will fix the broken rattle effect, it's still there! I don't know if Mirror_man and Fastone found your basic driving tips helpful or they share the same logic that no game is broken if played right... Like understeer was something easily avoided... :/
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I played today and I have to say that the rattle effect it's still there but not so much like in previous builds. Now it's seems that this odd vibration it's toned down and it happens when you actually lose completely the turns. Also iam using FEI at 50. With previous builds was stronger even at 10. I don't know if it's a placebo effect since I played over a month but definitely it looks better. Many guys suggest to get rid of the rattle effect to Max up your in game fbb.
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- 543
- Western Sahara
For those who like low grip driving I'd suggest turning the purple mode back on... Now i can do mild corrections without having the sudden heavy understeer rattle i need to fight, the effect is rather subtle detail now altough it could be more noticeable, it's not like driving over a set of curbs or bumps anymore. I had to turn drift to -1 to avoid oscillation & decrease in-game sensitivity to avoid shaking on straights, but the overal feel is much better, balanced and more natural for road cars... Bad thing is that now the brake is much shorter.
- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
Now I understood why I was not feeling the understeering effect so strongly... (FFB ingame torque on 10!!!), and I had a very low value of FOR (20 to 30), with FEI on 50! Now I´m trying to get a better FFB quality feeling with FFB in game torque from 1 to 4, and FOR from 40 to 60... and a not unsuportable understeering effect...That's what I meant.Maximum in game FFB torque setting which will cause clipping mid corner and the motor will not be able reproduce the rattle or at least not with full force.
- 472
- France
- poumpoumk
This is an interesting discussion !
Today I've decided to start my CSL settings from start because "new tyre model" / "long time without playing" / "want to play Sport Mode again regularly".
I've reset the settings of my wheel, so everything use the default values except for DRI (OFF instead of -05) and FEI (100 instead of 50). If I understand correctly fanatec parameters, with this configuration the FFB signals sent from GTS are directly interpreted by the wheel without any modification (no damper or "smoother effects added). Can you confirm that guys ?
My purpose was to understand exactly the meaning of the ingame option "FFB Sensitivity" :
- in blue mode : absolutely no difference between FFB Sensitivity @1 or @10 (same feeling on straight, on curb, no more damper in corner...)
- in purple mode : the only small difference I can feel is the oscillation around center on straight at high speed (@10 big oscillation, @1 small oscillation), but appart from that I feel nothing different (same feeling on curb, no more damper in corner...)
Do you have the same feeling ? If you feel a difference in blue mode with which car do you feel it ? (I mainly drive road cars...)
Today I've decided to start my CSL settings from start because "new tyre model" / "long time without playing" / "want to play Sport Mode again regularly".
I've reset the settings of my wheel, so everything use the default values except for DRI (OFF instead of -05) and FEI (100 instead of 50). If I understand correctly fanatec parameters, with this configuration the FFB signals sent from GTS are directly interpreted by the wheel without any modification (no damper or "smoother effects added). Can you confirm that guys ?
My purpose was to understand exactly the meaning of the ingame option "FFB Sensitivity" :
- in blue mode : absolutely no difference between FFB Sensitivity @1 or @10 (same feeling on straight, on curb, no more damper in corner...)
- in purple mode : the only small difference I can feel is the oscillation around center on straight at high speed (@10 big oscillation, @1 small oscillation), but appart from that I feel nothing different (same feeling on curb, no more damper in corner...)
Do you have the same feeling ? If you feel a difference in blue mode with which car do you feel it ? (I mainly drive road cars...)
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- 327
- ::1
I'd consider leaving the DRI at the default setting. DRI affects how quickly the wheel returns to neutral (straight) position while driving. I think with -5 it feels most natural. Do some slalom driving and see for yourself. You're probably right about FEI 100 minimizing input-smoothing. I guess Fanatec does a little bit of smoothing by default since some racing games don't send the force-feedback signals smoothly enough. I haven't really played around with that setting in GTS, though.
As for the in-game sensitivity, I always felt that it only affects steering rotation. At 10, I'd need to turn the wheel less than at 1. In a way, it's like the mouse sensitivity setting on your PC: higher sensitivity means less physical movement required.
- 472
- France
- poumpoumk
Yes, the DRI add a "damper effect", usually I was using something like -03 instead of the default -05 (wheel a little to heavy for me). But you're right, with DRI OFF(00) it feels really weird and it adds risks of oscillation.
Hmm, I think you're talking about the Controller Steering Sensitivity and not the Force Feedback Sensitivity ? The Controller Steering Sensitivity does absolutely nothing for wheel users ! A lot of wheel users seems to think that it changes something (clearly placebo) but I've tested it a lot and it only affects pad players.
What I want to understand is the Force Feedback Sensitivity parameter that seems to do nothing in blue mode. If someone can test this and confirm that I'm not crazy ?
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- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
Yes, the DRI add a "damper effect", usually I was using something like -03 instead of the default -05 (wheel a little to heavy for me). But you're right, with DRI OFF(00) it feels really weird and it adds risks of oscillation.
Hmm, I think you're talking about the Controller Steering Sensitivity and not the Force Feedback Sensitivity ? The Controller Steering Sensitivity does absolutely nothing for wheel users ! A lot of wheel users seems to think that it changes something (clearly placebo) but I've tested it a lot and it only affects pad players.
What I want to understand is the Force Feedback Sensitivity parameter that seems to do nothing in blue mode. If someone can test this and confirm that I'm not crazy ?
It does something...
Reinforces or diminishes FFB efects reproduced ... making them more... "crispy"... or numbing them (tipo...adormece ou faz sentir mais " agudas" as sensac.do Ffb... sentir mais ou menos as rugosidades da pista e das curbs... e creio q intensifica ou diminui as tais oscilac.em reta q s sentem em purple mode e... o feedback de understeering effects..) at least that is what I think I feel....
- 472
- France
- poumpoumk
I've done a lot of testing today with the combo race car / SEN @ 540° (usually I drive road cars) :
- purple mode : FFS act as an FEI parameter. At 10 you have the original / sharp signal and at 1 it is smoother with less noise. The difference between 1 and 10 is huge ! With high FFS values you can have difficulties to handle the wheel in straights. The FFS range is much bigger than the FEI range, 1 step in FFS is almost the equivalent of the whole FEI range.
- blue mode : now I've seen how it works with purple mode (and I guess it's the same thing for other wheels) I can say that this parameter is "broken" for the blue mode. If you really pay attention, at high speed in straight YES you can feel a subtle difference between 1 and 10 but it's really really light. I don't think that this 10 steps range was designed to have a so small impact on FFB.
IMO, they have developped the CSL Elite driver quickly (because they had to) and they only focused on the FFMT (the core algorithm for FFB). Unfortunately, now the FFMT works with our CSL Elite, the FFS needs some rework but they didn't do it, like for the rev lights, the pedals rumbles (ABS and traction loss), steering wheel rumbles etc... Unfortunately I don't have hope for a CSL support update at this point
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- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
Neither have I...I've done a lot of testing today with the combo race car / SEN @ 540° (usually I drive road cars) :
- purple mode : FFS act as an FEI parameter. At 10 you have the original / sharp signal and at 1 it is smoother with less noise. The difference between 1 and 10 is huge ! With high FFS values you can have difficulties to handle the wheel in straights. The FFS range is much bigger than the FEI range, 1 step in FFS is almost the equivalent of the whole FEI range.
- blue mode : now I've seen how it works with purple mode (and I guess it's the same thing for other wheels) I can say that this parameter is "broken" for the blue mode. If you really pay attention, at high speed in straight YES you can feel a subtle difference between 1 and 10 but it's really really light. I don't think that this 10 steps range was designed to have a so small impact on FFB.
IMO, they have developped the CSL Elite driver quickly (because they had to) and they only focused on the FFMT (the core algorithm for FFB). Unfortunately, now the FFMT works with our CSL Elite, the FFS needs some rework but they didn't do it, like for the rev lights, the pedals rumbles (ABS and traction loss), steering wheel rumbles etc... Unfortunately I don't have hope for a CSL support update at this point
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- GTR_Racer94
- RacerGTR94
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