Current PSN outage: Don't abuse or we lose this thread.
- Thread starter BWX
- 2,574 comments
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- 572
- 18603
- Intimidat3r421
Kind of a random input/question. How many of you PS3'ers will consider leaving the PS3 for PC or Xbox? Or, do you think Sony will be able to step-up and make all right in the end. Grant you, I do not play PS3, but this would tick me off to high heaven to say the least.
I have a short fuse to begin with, and do not know how I would react to this issue. Just curios as to your(Ps3 players) thoughts on this matter.....
I am mainly a PC guy, but have several friends on the 360, so I do play there a lot. I also felt that being free(online network) would have its downsides, but maybe that is not the issue.... I am just very interested in the matter.
I have a short fuse to begin with, and do not know how I would react to this issue. Just curios as to your(Ps3 players) thoughts on this matter.....
I am mainly a PC guy, but have several friends on the 360, so I do play there a lot. I also felt that being free(online network) would have its downsides, but maybe that is not the issue.... I am just very interested in the matter.
- 3,984
- Frankfurt am Main
- GTP_mcfizzle
- LotsaMcfizzle
Why would I leave when any network can be hacked? I have a 360 but don't have Live, but it would be pretty naive of me to think my info is safe there. It's a crazy world we live in unfortunately.
I will probably take my credit card info off and go with PSN cards from now on but that's about it.
I will probably take my credit card info off and go with PSN cards from now on but that's about it.
- 572
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- Intimidat3r421
Word McFizzle. I already took my credit card info off my xbox account several months back thinking something like this could happen. Btw, xbox is a b*tch when it comes to removing your credit info. Not sure how sony is, but microsoft literally begs you to keep it on there.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Yup, the SOE hack is the theft of all the Facebook data before the PSN hack. Sony only gave details of this in the last few days under pressure from the US Congressional investigators.
Interesting stuff. I agree that a potentially Anonymous-placed file on the SOE servers doesn't necessarily
a) Come from Anonymous
b) Link the PSN hack to the Facebook SOE hack
EDIT: I should clarify... the 'Facebook' hack only affected the Facebook data that users of SOE products on Facebook had chosen to share with SOE apps... I wrongly implied it was a global FB thang...
- 3,300
- England
- shepzki
Not me, I do know. I have good reasons for not moving to other platforms. Last year before I got my current PS3 (I had one before) I bought GTA4 for PC and went online, every single person was using a trainer, quickly sold the game. Xbox, I had one about 2, maybe 3 years ago but apart from GTA4 just didn't rate the games and couldn't afford Xbox Live at that time either.
I have had all the Playstations from 1st to the current one, guess I have just been with the brand from the beginning and unlike some people, I prefer to take the rough with the smooth and stick to what I prefer. Things in life are not always perfect, i'll admit Sony, and they way they have handled recent events have been far from perfect but I feel if I jumped ship I would not be doing myself any favours.
That's just how I feel about it.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
From Ars Technica
"Dr. Gene Spafford of Purdue testified that Sony's system was weak, and that those weaknesses had been revealed on security mailing lists months before the breach. According to Spafford, key parts of Sony's PlayStation Network ran on Apache servers that "were unpatched and had no firewall installed." This was reported in a forum known to be frequented by Sony employees, he said, though no changes were made in the months leading up to the attack."
[WIKIPEDIA]Gene Spafford[/WIKIPEDIA] is a well known security researcher.
"Dr. Gene Spafford of Purdue testified that Sony's system was weak, and that those weaknesses had been revealed on security mailing lists months before the breach. According to Spafford, key parts of Sony's PlayStation Network ran on Apache servers that "were unpatched and had no firewall installed." This was reported in a forum known to be frequented by Sony employees, he said, though no changes were made in the months leading up to the attack."
[WIKIPEDIA]Gene Spafford[/WIKIPEDIA] is a well known security researcher.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
The on-going criminal investigation is standard procedure. Just look around. Criminal case where the investigating officers or DA are interviewed: Not revealing those details as the investigation is ongoing. There is no slippery slope there.
Also, the government has never told me how to build a bomb like Timothy McVeigh used, or a pipe bomb, or an IED, because they don't want numpties out there trying it. You can find out how but the government won't be the one telling you. They revealed 9-11 because saying they got box cutters on board isn't exactly revealing a lot. That would be like Sony saying a guy snuck into their building and used a developer's workstation while he was in the bathroom.
Further, read the response to question 3. They contacted the FBI on April 22nd and setup a meeting to go over the whole thing. Law enforcement is involved and are aware of what the details of the situation are. They aren't hiding the information, they just aren't saying, "And this is how you do this," to all the wannabe hackers out there.
God forbid they be thorough and not answer things an investigation hasn't fully answered yet. I find it so disgusting that Sony brought in an outside security agency to aid in this, is working in cooperation with law enforcement, and is not publicly spreading speculation and rumors while not giving a Hacking 101 course.
Odd, I thought we were aware there was a party, the vase was broken, and stuff is missing. Sony, worst liars ever.
- 3,587
Thing for me is, Sony runs a monopoly on PSN. And do I think they will "make it right?" Yes. Because they have to or they will lose money. Making a flaw of a company public does not change the underlying nature of the company or its CEOs, just makes it adapt to save its own ass IMO.
Sony's letter to the U.S. Government is up-its-own-butt and sounds like a whiny five-year-old who didn't get his way. "Of course we knew of all these laws, which you know, are stupid and contradict each other so why should we have to follow any of them? We don't want to tell you anything, I hate you!"
The beauty of pc gaming is there is no corporate monopoly on the internet. If you don't like a comcast's way of doing business then switch to another provider. If you don't like Steam play games that don't use it. And no offense to xbox users but...never...
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- 1,846
- Arizona
- maxpontiac
Yes. Because we all know how forthcoming all large corporations are.
People sure get excited.
- 3,664
- Bristol
- priesty_lfc
Still down 
I started this on the 17th, Seems the attacks started before the 20th
www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=200558
I started this on the 17th, Seems the attacks started before the 20th
www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=200558
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Second paragraph moved below as it got away from networks and business and requires a separate response.
Huh? A monopoly on PSN? That doesn't even make sense. PSN is not a marketplace by itself. It competes with XBox Live and The Wii Shopping Channel (or whatever it's called). PSN on Playstation is not the same as Comcast on PC. Hell, Comcast may be required to use PSN. PSN is equivalent to Home Depot, if Xbox Live is Lowes, and Wii Shopping Channel is Ace Hardware. They compete with each other.
And how is PC gaming different when Blizzard games only work on Battle.Net and Steam-based games only work on Steam, or Microsoft games only play on Live For Windows, or any MMORPGs? The only difference is that PC allows you to use one box to connect to them all, and Consoles allow you to get many games that work on your network of choice.
I believe you are improperly using terms that make corporations sound bad just to justify your own sudden outrage at Sony.
Or even making up facts. Where exactly is this law breaking happening, and where in Sony's letter is it mentioned?
You do realize that Sony is not on trial, and the letter was asking questions for an already planned hearing on network and data security by Congress, right?
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- CanineHostile
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,734
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
A big difference exists between releasing information publicly and sharing it with groups who have a common interest.
An example of this comes from my own industry. The motor industry routinely shares information on how cars are broken into and how vehicles security can be bypassed.
In other words manufacturers and associated companies work together in an on-going war against car thieves.
However to release any of that information publicly would be a move of immense stupidity. It lets those who don't know how to bypass security measure X how to do it; and it lets those that already do, to know not to bother with that route and to start looking at another approach.
Oh and we do not appreciate the swear filter being bypassed, the AUP section covering swearing is quite clear and you either let the filter do its job or you use the 🤬 smilie. You will find a formal warning to that effect in your PM in-box.
Its your responsibility to follow the AUP, please ensure all your posts do.
Scaff
- 3,587
I see your argument and I definitely understand the standpoint, however I respectfully disagree, at least to a certain point. Industry secrets are all fine and well when it doesn't have to do with my credit cards. I also don't think Sony's going to share this info with Microsoft or with Nintendo in the interest of public safety. Heck, they didn't even want to tell us what happened at first. Does everyone remember some lame excuse about someone using a PS move to crash the whole server? Even if it was a joke it wasn't funny when someone could be going on a shopping spree funded by me. There's probably a middle ground but I can't help but think Sony is being pretty slimy in general.
I also don't think all businesses are this way. There are plenty of decent ones out there. And Sony can still redeem itself in my eyes but it would take a bigger turn around than it's given (pretty much by force).
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arora
(Banned)
- 4,098
I think that cats already out of the bag tbh...
Sonys chief information officer, Shinji Hasejima, made a statement at the Tokyo press conference in reference to the PSN security flaw.
The vulnerability [of the network] was a known vulnerability, one known of in the world. But Sony was not aware of it... was not convinced of it, he said.
I still agree with you though as there is no point in Sony confirming what it is.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Kotaku has a security expert's take: Dont Blame Sony, You Cant Trust ANY Networks
http://kotaku.com/#!5797602/dont-blame-sony-you-cant-trust-any-networks
http://kotaku.com/#!5797602/dont-blame-sony-you-cant-trust-any-networks
Says April 21st.
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- aland18
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I haven't seen if I've been responded to above yet, because my computer died after posting. But before I read any messages or posts in response to me I just wanted to apologize to Scaff for being a jerk. I've been having a bad day and I didn't mean to take it out on you. I actually appreciate your being here, allowing the thread to continue and watching out for us. I'm sure if people went around cursing in every post it would be shut down really fast. So. For what it's worth, I'm sorry and if it hasn't been changed already I'll go alter my previous posts.
- 440
- Norway
- CanineHostile
- 720
- Canada
About how little we know about the Anonymous/We are Legion file planted in the Sony server:
TLDR Version: Think over the evidence BEFORE you blame!
According to Sonys response to the U.S. House of Representatives (the blog version: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/05/04/sonys-response-to-the-u-s-house-of-representatives/ ; the actual letter: http://www.flickr.com/photos/playstationblog/sets/72157626521862165/ ) Sony investigators have discovered that the intruders had planted a file on one of those servers named Anonymous with the words We are Legion."
Assuming that this file really does exist, it is important to consider all the possibilities BEFORE you jump to the first conclusion that pops into your heads:
1) It could have been placed there by someone from Anonymous (whether officially in house or a splinter cell):
a) by a dumb, arrogant person as a signature of sorts (perhaps it was supposed to remain hidden)
b) intentionally by someone from Anonymous (or a splinter group?) who left a signature/identifier (intended to be kept secret: i.e. that they didnt think Sony would just publicize it); they would use this sign to prove to Sony they were the one(s) with the info which they were trying to sell back to them ff
c) someone with brains who anticipated that Anonymous would get blamed anyways and that by planting this possibly(?) obvious file it would look like they were being framed.
2) It could have been placed there by someone from outside Anonymous:
a) hoping to frame Anonymous
b) to use as proof that they were the one who had the data when trying to sell it back to Sony
3) It could have been planted by a Sony employee:
a) the hacking was an inside job by a disgruntled employee or facilitated by a disgruntled employee to an outside person
b) it was planted by persons within Sony to strengthen public and or government support against this and or other hacking groups (your average conspiracy theory)
c) The file doesnt even exist and it was a joke or a miscommunication that went too far just like rumours on the net.
Sonys letter made much sense to me and I am afraid that many will focus on one part about Anonymous and not read a little further on about what Sony believes:
Whether those who participated in the denial of services attacks were conspirators or whether they were simply duped into providing cover for a very clever thief, we may never know. In any case, those who participated in the denial of service attacks should understand that whether they knew it or not they were aiding in a well planned, well executed, large-scale theft
The point I am trying to make is that no one (except those who put the file there) know what this file means: we do not know by whom or why it was put there. Anyone who starts claiming that Anonymous was found to be responsible or even probably responsible for the attack is blatantly speculating, and essentially lying depending on the way they say it. I personally do not like Anonymous [and completely have faith in Sony], and this is not intended to be a defense of Anonymous, but a defense of finding out the truth something internet users tend to walk all over most of the time. Its innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.
TLDR Version: Think over the evidence BEFORE you blame!
According to Sonys response to the U.S. House of Representatives (the blog version: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/05/04/sonys-response-to-the-u-s-house-of-representatives/ ; the actual letter: http://www.flickr.com/photos/playstationblog/sets/72157626521862165/ ) Sony investigators have discovered that the intruders had planted a file on one of those servers named Anonymous with the words We are Legion."
Assuming that this file really does exist, it is important to consider all the possibilities BEFORE you jump to the first conclusion that pops into your heads:
1) It could have been placed there by someone from Anonymous (whether officially in house or a splinter cell):
a) by a dumb, arrogant person as a signature of sorts (perhaps it was supposed to remain hidden)
b) intentionally by someone from Anonymous (or a splinter group?) who left a signature/identifier (intended to be kept secret: i.e. that they didnt think Sony would just publicize it); they would use this sign to prove to Sony they were the one(s) with the info which they were trying to sell back to them ff
c) someone with brains who anticipated that Anonymous would get blamed anyways and that by planting this possibly(?) obvious file it would look like they were being framed.
2) It could have been placed there by someone from outside Anonymous:
a) hoping to frame Anonymous
b) to use as proof that they were the one who had the data when trying to sell it back to Sony
3) It could have been planted by a Sony employee:
a) the hacking was an inside job by a disgruntled employee or facilitated by a disgruntled employee to an outside person
b) it was planted by persons within Sony to strengthen public and or government support against this and or other hacking groups (your average conspiracy theory)
c) The file doesnt even exist and it was a joke or a miscommunication that went too far just like rumours on the net.
Sonys letter made much sense to me and I am afraid that many will focus on one part about Anonymous and not read a little further on about what Sony believes:
Whether those who participated in the denial of services attacks were conspirators or whether they were simply duped into providing cover for a very clever thief, we may never know. In any case, those who participated in the denial of service attacks should understand that whether they knew it or not they were aiding in a well planned, well executed, large-scale theft
The point I am trying to make is that no one (except those who put the file there) know what this file means: we do not know by whom or why it was put there. Anyone who starts claiming that Anonymous was found to be responsible or even probably responsible for the attack is blatantly speculating, and essentially lying depending on the way they say it. I personally do not like Anonymous [and completely have faith in Sony], and this is not intended to be a defense of Anonymous, but a defense of finding out the truth something internet users tend to walk all over most of the time. Its innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.
- 3,587
Once you purchase a PS3, Sony owns PSN and it is the only server you can use. I understand you don't have to buy one but if you buy one specifically for, let's say, GT5 (since it's an exclusive), you're stuck with Sony no matter what happens. You can't choose the parts, the servers the games use, or anything else really. Sony monopolizes the system and all components, by nature (because it is their product). They might outsource for harddrives and components but it's all an unalterable choice made by the company. You're stuck with Sony no matter what silliness they come up with, how long they take to respond to their customers, what security risks they take behind your back, etc. You can build a PC from parts manufactured by companies you trust and enjoy, separate companies for each component, each chosen by you. You can choose which online servers are run by companies that represent your point of view and style of gaming, you can customize pretty much anything.
I'll probably continue to play GT5 for my friends on GTP and the leagues I'm in, but I'm pretty disgusted with Sony in general and I don't want to feel like to play games I have to support them.
As for the law breaking, I'm not saying that's what Sony was doing. I was referring to their response in the letter stating that Sony is "of course" aware of the many business regulations requiring them to do such and such regarding users' personal info and conducting a thorough investigation, and called the regulations "conflicting." However I misread that portion of the letter and took it to mean Sony was being snippity to the U.S. government request for information.
I also don't think Sony's on trial nor do I think they should be, though I DO think they should be a little more transparent. Those legal resources, though, such as the FBI, should be spent going after the hackers. However Sony is liable to their customers and groups representing their customers, and "we didn't want to compromise the investigation" is a line police agencies feed the media meaning "we're not ready to talk." There is a legitimate time period during which certain aspects of a criminal case shouldn't be divulged, of course. This is a dirty situation for the company and they're covering themselves, if I could speculate, not merely protecting the integrity of a legal case.
I just don't buy that Sony is spic-and-span and that they give a too much a hoot about their customers except that they want people to keep spending money at the playstation store. I know my analogies aren't perfect but rather than have everyone pick at them let me ignore the analogies a second and just say what I'm trying to say:
Sony's persona to the public right now is easy to see through and I strongly feel the nature of the company is not necessarily in our best interests despite their outward political smile.
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