Custom VisionRacer VR3. D-box motion, Dual TH8s, Triple projection.

  • Thread starter Mayaman
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Yeah it simulates it really well, at times I'm amazed at how my brain is fooled and I get a queasy stomach. :P

That being said I don't know if you've seen my rig or what the screens are connected to but its rock solid. And now that I'm getting pro screens made by Northern Flight sims with aluminum framing and VESA connections its going to be even more solid.

Right now my screens are home made from Wilsonart laminate and PCB backing with some aluminum framing but not enough and it still works nice.

once the new screens are in place its going to be awesome. Designing my projector mounts now. When you have movement you have to have the screens and projectors in sync. Just bought a pipe bender.
 
I had a feeling you would go for full movement on the projectors sooner or later. Especially after the topic came up a week or so ago somewheres around here.

As always, looking fantastic!
 
Mayaman
Yeah it simulates it really well, at times I'm amazed at how my brain is fooled and I get a queasy stomach. :P

That being said I don't know if you've seen my rig or what the screens are connected to but its rock solid. And now that I'm getting pro screens made by Northern Flight sims with aluminum framing and VESA connections its going to be even more solid.

Right now my screens are home made from Wilsonart laminate and PCB backing with some aluminum framing but not enough and it still works nice.

once the new screens are in place its going to be awesome. Designing my projector mounts now. When you have movement you have to have the screens and projectors in sync. Just bought a pipe bender.
Click to expand...

You are going to feel like you are flying a plane... :crazy:
 
I'd respectfully question your desire to have those projectors moving (the screens too but I appreciate you're limited by the cockpit design) :). I don't think that'll add to the immersion and here's why: a simple, real-life anaolgy is your car. When you're sitting behind the wheel, think of the windscreen as your projected image. When the car moves, the windscreen obviously moves with it.

Now imagine a racing scenario; you're at high speed, cornering, being thrown around in the seat etc. Your body is subjected to g-forces, particularly your head. Here's my point: the windscreen doesn't move with your head; it's static to your body (along with everything else in the car; the seat, the steering wheel, the pedals etc; it's all fixed in place. Your body 'moves' in relation to the objects in the car). The environment outside of your windscreen doesn't tilt or sway either; the car does that. What I mean is that your car moves around the environment, not the other way around. By adding motion to the projectors, you'll be moving the environment too...

That's sort of a hard point to put across but hopefully I kinda made it clear! :) That's my thinking on it and it's just my opinion. The bottom line is though, if it works for you and you're happy, then it's all good. 👍

*Edit* The above assumes that you race in 'cockpit view' i.e. in-car. :)
 
Greeze, how can you have a moving seat in your car and everything else when it's attached directly to the chassis of the car and not a moving windshield, which is also attached to the same car frame. So everything movies with the whole car, this includes you and the interior. However you as a person are moving around more cause of g-forces and your body not being bolted to the car and made of iron. ;)

The issue mostly lies in the fact that you want to reproduce the g-forces. Now consider the 4 pistons under a seat (depending on how your rig works, haven't checked to make sure) as the tires of your car that tilt the cars body (your rig itself) and delivers the forces through it. Now with the cars body the windshield (screens) tilts as well, but the image outside stays the same (on-screen image).
The only issue you have with moving screens here is that in some games the car visually on screen will tilt the same way as your rig, while that should be inversed when using a motion system with screens attached.
 
@LogiForce: I didn't say that the windscreen doesn't move, I said that it doesn't move in relation to your head/body :). With regards to motion, all the interior of the car is static, the only things moving are the car and your body. If you introduce motion to the projectors (essentially; the environment) you are artificially moving the environment and most (if not all) of the effect will be lost.

Your second point (about the 4 pistons) is the same as mine i.e. the windscreen tilts but the image outside the windscreen stays the same. If you add motion to the projectors, you'll lose that effect :)
 
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Sorry, misunderstood you. Indeed the body moves and the environment doesn't.

What I am still thinking though that depending on the camera mode used (interior or bumper cam) the more noticible the rolling of the car will be that is graphically reproduced in the game. If one could invert this (no options for that in any game yet) then you could perfectly hook up your screens and so on to the rig. This way it would act as the windshield instead of the environment. Which you indeed are correct about... should be static. Bumper cams however aren't in games which makes it all a bit odd to look at either way, static or moving screens.

Hence personally I think going the tactile way is better then going the motion way.
 
No worries mate, it's a difficult thing to try and describe! :)

I agree that the choice of camera mode will have a huge effect too. I guess it's something that needs to be experienced to actually fully comment on?
 
I guess. I only ever sat in a simulator in Warner Brothers Movie World, Batman simulator. It was a screen in the cockpit itself which acted as a windshield. In other words the screen rotated in the opposite direction of the cockpit to visually simulate the roll as you experience it motion wise.
You actually went through a tunnel starting at the batcave with a sort of batwing craft that could carry about 10 people. Then out of the tunnel towards Gotham city if I am correct.

2 years ago I went back and it was used for some sort of time travel machine story, but with the same effects and the same screen setup and so on.

So yeah, you have to experience it indeed. I just tried to visualize from my experience how it should be done for a racing cockpit. Unfortunately I think for motion cockpits the game options are often the limitation.
In other words you would want the screen to counter the roll of the cars body which is simulated by the motion system. So if the roll is to the left the game should let the screen roll to the right.
Even better maybe, the game's visual representation of body roll (no matter what cam) should have an off switch. That way you don't have excessive body roll and body roll calibration issues.
The other axis shouldn't be such an issue (going up and down hill motion representation) apart from when you use cockpit cam. Since your body will then lean backward where normally your seat would stop you from going backwards even on the uphill.

Again, I might be wrong cause I do this from imagination. Just trying to think along of what is a correct way of doing things.
 
Really good points guys, I have to say that all of you make good points. Here is what I'll add.

This isn't a permanent thing, I'm still experimenting and learning.

I always and only race in cockpit view

From using the D-box now for almost a month I have to say there is no going back to play without it. I think people make incorrect assumptions based on videos they see on youtube. The movement is convincing, and the fact that the D-box has transducers in it lending tactile makes it even more so. Can't explain how immersive this is.

Right now my screens are moving but the projectors are not. Its not bad by any means, in fact I don't even notice it. I'm only experimenting, if I don't like it I'll change it back. Now that I have some professional screens coming in from Northern flight sim I want to try it with the projectors moving.

This is all basically research. I hope that the sim community can take something away from the massive amounts of money I'm spending on this. LOL
 
Yes a DBOX motion is brain teasing; but, it lends itself to flight simulators. Seat motion disconnected from the controls and screen is more immersive in a car racing simulator. The movements are more towards bumps and g's.... Others have already spent lots of money figuring these things out :sly:

Great setup!
 
I think people tend to not realize how violent the D-box is. Its great for driving games because the actuators are so fast and violent. If I put it on 100% it almost tips my rig over, I'm not kidding about this. LOL

Also the transducers in it are fantastic. Has highs, mids, and lows that move the contents of my stomach.

I'm going to do some more fabricating tonight hopefully I'll be done by tomorrow.
 
Mayaman
Really good points guys, I have to say that all of you make good points. Here is what I'll add.

This isn't a permanent thing, I'm still experimenting and learning.

I always and only race in cockpit view

From using the D-box now for almost a month I have to say there is no going back to play without it. I think people make incorrect assumptions based on videos they see on youtube. The movement is convincing, and the fact that the D-box has transducers in it lending tactile makes it even more so. Can't explain how immersive this is.

Right now my screens are moving but the projectors are not. Its not bad by any means, in fact I don't even notice it. I'm only experimenting, if I don't like it I'll change it back. Now that I have some professional screens coming in from Northern flight sim I want to try it with the projectors moving.

This is all basically research. I hope that the sim community can take something away from the massive amounts of money I'm spending on this. LOL
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Sorry not been about much, have had a recent family funeral to overcome and been very busy with work.

It seems you are indeed very fortunate in having what can be only be described as no realistic "budget limitation" on this project. Kudos to you for your efforts but I would suggest you give more thought to the long term goals you want from this project to help spend your money in the best way. I do concur that often the only way is to go with an idea, test it and then determine if it was the right path or not. Sometimes it does require the actual testing and is something that cannot be done just in the mind or from planning.

Some points I was thinking regards the screens and motion....
Stationary projectors and moving screens just seemed odd to me and a design flaw. Okay yes you originally hadn't planned motion so fair enough but yes the motion now brings another upgrade. It would make more sense to have the screens and projectors stationary or having everything in motion.

Having a moving screen and moving projectors has perhaps other issues though? Okay first possible benefit is that this option keeps each screen in line with your own body motion and likely will help you keep focus easier. Then again moving cockpit but static screen may actually feel more dramatic and heighten the sense of motion more.

The concerns I would highlight are possible damage to the projectors with the motion. I would assume rubber isolation is used on mounts to reduce vibrations and soften the impact/jolts. Many fully professional motion simulators do move the entire cockpit but I can't think of one that has triple projectors. They certainly are not designed with being moved around in mind though.

Stationary screens?
Then again many cockpits just use stationary projection screens and have only the cockpit moving. Perhaps the only answer is your personal preference.
If it was me I wouldn't have moving projectors. I would opt for a ceiling mounted option to help also make it look more professional and have it match in with the screen or cockpit.

The whole debate on what should move or shouldn't.
Really the D-Box code should allow the games cockpit to tilt in sync with the motion. The D-box code may have your car moving due to physics in the track code but the game itself may not have corresponding motion within the car cockpit view to the degree of movement the cockpit produces. That really is what is needed for proper accuracy. This would work on a stationary screen as the FOV tilts with the car and the motion yet only the car not the whole scenery moving.

Do any PC sims have such options/plugins with D-Box to tilt the screen FOV with the D-Box action?
 
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Mayaman
I think people tend to not realize how violent the D-box is. Its great for driving games because the actuators are so fast and violent. If I put it on 100% it almost tips my rig over, I'm not kidding about this. LOL

Also the transducers in it are fantastic. Has highs, mids, and lows that move the contents of my stomach.

I'm going to do some more fabricating tonight hopefully I'll be done by tomorrow.
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I agree - you could actually simulate a low rider bouncing like we have out here in So Cal :-). I still think you should stray from moving screens as you will be moving closer to a flight simulator -vs- car simulator. The simulator 'limited' movements are to trick the brain and a big part of the trickery is the tensions in both the arms and eyes. I am not sure why DBOX has not removed the moving wheel aspect of their product for car racing simulation - arm tension is huge in kinesthesia.
 
AWESOME Setup! I'm soooo jealous! Very well done!

I currently have a black label VR3 with a single 32". I enjoy it but would love to upgrade to something more of your caliber :) I just think I will realy need to rearrange my upstairs loft to accomadate the needed space to do so.

Can you please tell me what model projectors your using, and where you got the stands to hold them?

Also, I wanted to add something to this forum/thread that I don't think lots of people are aware of. I talked to an employee at VRX up in Canada. They are the ones that make the VRX Mach 4 simulator. He told me they will soon be releaseing "wind fans" that will mount to Visionracers. They'll be offering two different models. One that actually is in sync with today's most popular racing games (GT5, Dir 3, iRacing etc) and the other will run by a poteniamter that is connected to your throttle. So the more you push on the gas, the faster the fans will speed up and blow wind up in your face!

I think it will be a cool effect. Even though he said they'll most likely be MSRPing at $399 USD. :/
 
greenalke1
Also, I wanted to add something to this forum/thread that I don't think lots of people are aware of. I talked to an employee at VRX up in Canada. They are the ones that make the VRX Mach 4 simulator. He told me they will soon be releaseing "wind fans" that will mount to Visionracers. They'll be offering two different models. One that actually is in sync with today's most popular racing games (GT5, Dir 3, iRacing etc) and the other will run by a poteniamter that is connected to your throttle. So the more you push on the gas, the faster the fans will speed up and blow wind up in your face!

I think it will be a cool effect. Even though he said they'll most likely be MSRPing at $399 USD. :/
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$400 bucks for a fan? No thanks...
 
Green, the projectors are Qumi Q2s. The stands, and now Stand as in single were home made. Simple components. Ergotech base, chrome closet pole from Home Depot, Ergotron double monitor articulating arms.

The VRX is cool but I wouldn't take it over a VR3. Look at the seating position and the angle of the pedals, its completely fubar. Plus, you thought the VR3 was expensive? LOL, the base VRX is $4,500!!!!! and it doesn't include anything.

The fan idea sounds cool but I'll probably pass.

I just un-attached my triple screen stand from the rig, its now a free standing screen stand. :) Going to run like this for a while.
 
Mayaman
I just un-attached my triple screen stand from the rig, its now a free standing screen stand. :) Going to run like this for a while.
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I think you made the right decision! I would love to hear your opinion on curved -vs- flat screen for racing simulations. I have not tried a curved screen with my rig but everyone I know that tried them actually said they thought the 3 flat screens were better for racing and easier to setup. They liked the curved screen for flight simulation - dunno... BTW, you seem more into the building than the racing itself - cool :-). Get yourself some black velvet tape on eBay and make those screens look factory built :-).
 
Hehe, no I love the racing just as much. But since I'm creative, and love tinkering I love doing this too. Plus other people can pick and choose things from my threads for their own rigs.

I'm played on curved and I tend to like the three screen approach better. But curved gives you a much cleaner image and no faceting. Its a toss up. You have to have corrective software for curved.
 
Mayaman
Green, the projectors are Qumi Q2s. The stands, and now Stand as in single were home made. Simple components. Ergotech base, chrome closet pole from Home Depot, Ergotron double monitor articulating arms.

The VRX is cool but I wouldn't take it over a VR3. Look at the seating position and the angle of the pedals, its completely fubar. Plus, you thought the VR3 was expensive? LOL, the base VRX is $4,500!!!!! and it doesn't include anything.

The fan idea sounds cool but I'll probably pass.

I just un-attached my triple screen stand from the rig, its now a free standing screen stand. :) Going to run like this for a while.
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Thanks for the reply. I looked into the projectors you mentioned. Their not exactly give-a-ways are they! Haha. I do like how they have an estimated life span of 30,000 hours. I think I would be pretty much will be bored of the hobby by the time they die.

I run my racing games off my PC. I have a graphics card which supports three monitors and eyefinity. So I would believe these projectors would hook up just fine, don't you think?

Please also tell me the paint you used on the acrylic panels?

I'm just trying to figure out which upgrade to do. The three projection screens or an entry level Stage 1 motion simulator package to connect to my visionracer. Either upgrade would run about $2000.

What do you think?
 
You can do both because the Screens cost me $40. I used WilsonArt laminate frosty white for my screens. You don't have to do anything to them but cut them to size. they are an almost perfect projection material and plenty of people at the AVS forum use it. Just be sure to get a pick up truck to get it form Home Depot as once your roll it up, you'll never get it flat again. I glued it to plastic panels and mounted that to the VR3 triple stand.

If I were you I'd save up to do everything at once. Just do it, as it will be in the back of your mind.

I love my motion rig and will never go back. But I also love my huge immersive display and will never go back from that either. If you can do both dude. Just do a little extra saving.

If you're going to do simxperience on the VR3 you're going to have to mod it. If you're handy the VR3 is a great rig because you can mod it out the wazoo.
 
Mayaman
You can do both because the Screens cost me $40. I used WilsonArt laminate frosty white for my screens. You don't have to do anything to them but cut them to size. they are an almost perfect projection material and plenty of people at the AVS forum use it. Just be sure to get a pick up truck to get it form Home Depot as once your roll it up, you'll never get it flat again. I glued it to plastic panels and mounted that to the VR3 triple stand.

If I were you I'd save up to do everything at once. Just do it, as it will be in the back of your mind.

I love my motion rig and will never go back. But I also love my huge immersive display and will never go back from that either. If you can do both dude. Just do a little extra saving.

If you're going to do simxperience on the VR3 you're going to have to mod it. If you're handy the VR3 is a great rig because you can mod it out the wazoo.
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Sounds fairly straight forward. Thanks for the details.

Last question...

I've been reading reviews about the Qumi Q2's and a couple owners stated that the projectors start loosing focus after about 15-20 minutes of use. Have you ever experienced this? Is it a problem or ongoing issue?

Thanks!
 
Since the lenses on all these pocket projectors are plastic they shift slightly after the projector heats up. And it's five minutes tops, not twenty. Secondly, once you focus them after their initial heat up Just leave them at that focus point. They will initially be out of focus but will go into focus once heated up. They perform really nice, are tiny and light, and really bright for their size, perfect for my application.

In a couple years when I have more space I'll upgrade to 1080p LED. I won't go back to bulb projectors! The variance between these qumi is zero. Bulb projectors always have brightness variances from screen to screen. Hope this helps.
 
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