Custom VisionRacer VR3. D-box motion, Dual TH8s, Triple projection.

[lemansfanatic]

Sounds fairly straight forward. Thanks for the details.

Last question...

I've been reading reviews about the Qumi Q2's and a couple owners stated that the projectors start loosing focus after about 15-20 minutes of use. Have you ever experienced this? Is it a problem or ongoing issue?

Thanks!

Dude check out avs forum, its a great place to talk to experts about which projectors you should consider based on your criteria. you tell them your budget, room size and layout, and that you're looking for gaming on triple screen, and they're very helpful there. someone will direct you to the right thread you can get all the info. i've spent coutless hours there just reading up on things like throw distance, light output (lumens), zoom level, lens shift, keystone effect, and all kinds of diy screen threads there. basically anyone who's reading this and has ever had any interest in projectors you HAVE TO start here!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=68

 

[Mayaman]

I agree I have been a member there for years. The Qumi projectors are excellent for this application. Are they perfect? No. But when I'm racing in a 180 degree cockpit, with brilliant color, and uniform brightness the slight focus problem doesn't bug me. I'm not doing any computing on this PC, strictly games and they're damn good
When 1080p 3D pocket projectors are introduced I'll upgrade to that but not until then.

If I were you I'd try and get a ceiling mounted 1080p projectors like the Viewsonic 8200 Pro. I went with pocket projectors because I have no space. Lol

 

[glowplug]

I'm running 3 Qumi's and they are great - including the size!

 

[Crispy]

Wow, those projectors can run 3.42 years straight non-stop before dying! That's impressive!

 

[Mayaman]

Yeah, no cool down either. Just pull the plug on everything. My next video is going to be epic. LOL

 

[lemansfanatic]

I agree I have been a member there for years. The Qumi projectors are excellent for this application. Are they perfect? No. But when I'm racing in a 180 degree cockpit, with brilliant color, and uniform brightness the slight focus problem doesn't bug me. I'm not doing any computing on this PC, strictly games and they're damn good
When 1080p 3D pocket projectors are introduced I'll upgrade to that but not until then.

If I were you I'd try and get a ceiling mounted 1080p projectors like the Viewsonic 8200 Pro. I went with pocket projectors because I have no space. Lol

Viewsonic? ..... Eh I dont know if i would recommend them, they dont exactly have the reliability factor.... When looking for a projector, a name brand really does mean something in terms of quality. epson have the best customer service, mitsubishi and sanyo make well built machines, sony is great, and if you can affort one - jvc has the best picture in terms of ansi contrast levels. stick with any of those manufacturers and you'll be okay.

 

[Mayaman]

Yeah those are great as well. We run Viewsonic Pro 8200s at work and they have been great. great price as well. I have been a viewsonic fan since the 80s, they make good equipment. I think their customer service woes are because of the language barrier sometimes.

 

[Crispy]

Yeah, no cool down either. Just pull the plug on everything. My next video is going to be epic. LOL

Should we expecting some shaking around?

 

[Mayaman]

Yeah a little shaking. I just have to add, that no matter what you've seen in videos or heard from haters on youtube, the D-box is the real deal. Last night, with the effects tuned the way I wanted in the D-box game configurator I literally had the best time I ever had playing any game EVER. And I'm 43 years old. When you spend a little time and tune the movement and transducers to the game you have quite literally an almost one to one feeling and suspension of disbelief.

I know people have said it before, but videos don't do the D-box justice. You'll have naysayers say " It only moves 2 degree, blah blah blah". They have no idea what they're talking about. Spend some time tuning it correctly and its fantastic.

I've just recently gotten the go ahead from D-box to send my KAI box in for a re-flash and I'm getting another two actuators for the max of four. Fun times ahead.

I can't recommend it more, if you have the ability to get even a two actuator system do it, you'll thank me.

 

[Crispy]

I've always wanted the D-Box. One day I'll go to the junkyard, buy the cockpit of a real car, slap a D-Box, my Wheel/Pedals, and 5 Projectors and make a monster. I can only dream of how awesome that would be!

 

[occasionalracer]

How much weight are these D-Box's capable of lifting?

Edit. Ok I just looked at the products page and realized they're fully assembled rigs, are there any options to custom build the same quality motion with separate components for a REALLY heavy cockpit (which I will be starting to work on in a few months time) 250kg? Or would this not be possible?

 

[Mayaman]

Hundreds of pounds. I think my SRP-120 is 500 pounds total. Plenty of headroom there to mount a rig.

Just to give you a clue as to how powerful these things are, I'm on Nurburgring straight, just horsing around going back and forth with the wheel and then I got stupid and starting turning it really fast. The D-box actuators almost tipped my rig over. Literally.

 

[lemansfanatic]

I've always wanted the D-Box. One day I'll go to the junkyard, buy the cockpit of a real car, slap a D-Box, my Wheel/Pedals, and 5 Projectors and make a monster. I can only dream of how awesome that would be!

I want one mounted to those boob cockpits, that would be saweet

 

[alanchan2002]

Hi Mayaman,

I had my D-Box GP-200 since early 2009. During those days, they only support Rfactor.
I had a few suggestions for you.

1) Put in a racing safety belt that is similar to D-Box GP200. The belt will strap your body closer to the seat for better motion feel. If you set your d-box intensity above 50 and you crushed or lost control of your car, you know what I mean then.
2) I owned every racing title that support D-Box. You should try IRacing, it the best simulation software for D-Box. You must spend some time on each car and make the motion profile for individual car. IRacing tracks are all scanned track on the actual location. You try it and you will know and appreciate the quality.
3) I am not sure whether you have an handbrake, if not put in one for playing Dirt series, WRC series and even some of the NFS car. It bring rally racing to a "real" level.

By the way, each actuator can take 250 Lbs. Therefore, 4 will take 1,000 lbs.

I am also in the process in upgrading my GP-200 to 4 actuators system.

 

[Mayaman]

Awesome thanks man, I'm moving to four actuators as well. Yeah, been thinking about getting the belt for sure. Once I get what I need I'll update my thread.

Thanks

 

[mikemav]

Question: does the D-box support an audio input, for tactile feeback on non-supported systems? In other words: if my main rig is mostly PC and using D-box supported racing titles, great, but what if I switch to Gran Turismo or Forza 4? Can I at least use the D-box for audio driven tactile feedback on these non-PC titles?

One thing I like about the TFS iVibe tactile transducer system is this ability to use an audio input jack "intellivibe" in lieu of a PC title with proper plug-in, so one system is useful on all platforms. I read someone online discouraging the use of a buttkicker tactile feedback transducer with a D-box (to avoid "confusing" the feedback") but I wonder the most practical way to use multi-platform? If the D-box does not track at least with audio input from consoles, I'd need to have another tactile system in place for that.

 

[alanchan2002]

Hi Mayaman, pardon me that I use your tread to share some d-box information here.

I can share a few information that I know about D-box

1) D-box motion code is actually converting the game telemetry into d-box motion from the PC via kinematic actuator interface (KAI) (connect to PC USB) then connect to the Actuator Controller Module (ACM) then to Actuator to generate the motion. Unlike other motion platform that uses sound file to convert to motion.

2) D-box does not support PS3 nor Xbox 360. Strictly PC on selected titles only

3) Inside D-box software, there is alot of parameters to set for each game title for each car. Each individual car can set its own motion profile setting, plus overall motion setting (Global). In my opinion, there is no need for buttkicker where the whole rig is already in motion like sitting in a real car. That is why we are going for 4 actuator system, imagine each actuator is each wheel of the car.

4) When Mayaman describe how powerful is the actuator force that he almost "fell off the chair" is for real. I can confirm that. If the overall intensity is set very high for say Dirt 2 or Dirt 3 game, when the car jump in the game, my back actuator actually jump off the floor. That is why the original D-Box rig comes with seat Belt for both feel and safety.

5) If you played say DIRT, DIRT2, DIRT3 on D-Box, you would appreciate how codemaster improve the actual car physis and track over time. If you play an arcade game like Need for Speed vs R-factor, Simbin racing series or even IRacing on D-box, you will able to tell a real difference between game and simulation. D-Box had just released Rfactor 2 motion code, I am very eager to try Rfactor 2. If you have Rfactor series and Simbin, you probably have so much cars and tracks to drive that GT5 and Forza does not have.

Last but not least, D-Box will probably give the closest feel on the car with less G-Force than real reacing, however D-box can still generate over 2G.

 

[Mayaman]

Everything he said above is accurate, D-box is easily the best thing for sim racing I've ever bought. Pretty hard to convey unless you've used a properly tuned Dbox. It's brilliant.

 

[Mr Latte]

Everything he said above is accurate, D-box is easily the best thing for sim racing I've ever bought. Pretty hard to convey unless you've used a properly tuned Dbox. It's brilliant.

The problem is really that without console and an official support system hardware/developers incorporate it will always be a limited product. Motion has been around for years and has never got to become mainstream. I find this the biggest issue for personally not getting interested in it. I have ordered a new high end PC build for the upcoming games but again I do not feel compelled to get into motion.

What I fail to embrace is that while moving around can add to the immersion, it sure as hell can get annoying (from my personal experience) and is likely with many players going to reduce your lap-time performance, no? Essentially making the gaming experience more realistic but probably harder due to the physical effort and increased concentration needed. It is great as a show piece but really I do not see me climbing into a cockpit after a long working day, a nice bite and drink to be hurled around for game enjoyment.

I think it is great some of you are going this direction, don't get me wrong it makes a cockpit even more impressive but I just don't think everyone would enjoy it nor feel it is worth such money. Then again you never stated how much you invested in this. My viewpoint is different to some, I want immersion based on improved entertainment immersion value not so much simulation accuracy. Though it is great to read how others are improving their rigs.

 

[tribolik]

The problem is really that without console and an official support system hardware/developers incorporate it will always be a limited product. Motion has been around for years and has never got to become mainstream. I find this the biggest issue for personally not getting interested in it. I have ordered a new high end PC build for the upcoming games but again I do not feel compelled to get into motion.

What I fail to embrace is that while moving around can add to the immersion, it sure as hell can get annoying (from my personal experience) and is likely with many players going to reduce your lap-time performance, no? Essentially making the gaming experience more realistic but probably harder due to the physical effort and increased concentration needed. It is great as a show piece but really I do not see me climbing into a cockpit after a long working day, a nice bite and drink to be hurled around for game enjoyment.

I think it is great some of you are going this direction, don't get me wrong it makes a cockpit even more impressive but I just don't think everyone would enjoy it nor feel it is worth such money. Then again you never stated how much you invested in this. My viewpoint is different to some, I want immersion based on improved entertainment immersion value not so much simulation accuracy. Though it is great to read how others are improving their rigs.

Same goes for wheels and FFB... better off playing with a DS3 then...

 

[Timppaq]

I can easily see how a D-box or similar improves the entertainment immersion.. 👍 Would love to test one of these.

 

[Mr Latte]

Same goes for wheels and FFB... better off playing with a DS3 then...

Hardly the same....
Adding motion is a massive upgrade but as discussed it can be violent, just as in the cockpit of various motorsports can be. It maybe depends where the user wants to draw the line between realism/simulation and just advanced gaming experiences.

I game for fun you see not to try and replicate the whole or real experience. For me it would be very mood dependant too as often I cant see me wanting to be moved around while playing. Just saying its not everyones cuppa...

 

[Mayaman]

Latte, it would definitely improve your lap times buddy. You're only thinking of the movement, especially in a non tuned system. Again this isn't just about movement, but the subtle effects of road surface and grip conveyed through the transducer effect, I don't think anyone who's tried a properly tuned motion experience including tactile who can go back. I've literally had both hobbyists like myself as well as my mechanic, who is a Porsche mechanic and has driven on Speedvision back in the early 2000s, and to a man they said they would not like to back to racing without movement and feedback.

It literally makes the games flat and unintuitive. Like going from distance braking to load cell or perfect pedal. I understand you don't like it, but ask any driver if they know a track better if they can actually feel it and build muscle memory to its different and undulating turns, to just visual cues and it's a no brainier. I myself can't go back now. The Dbox is powerful and sometimes violent, but it's no moreso than anything else and when tuned correctly is ultra precise and why so many pros use it in those 40K F1 simulators. Very understated IMO. If realism and fun are your main goals it is a slam dunk. Even if track times are your only goal i still feel youd be better in the long run if you could actually feel the track realistically.

And as far as official console support, do you mean PS3 and Xbox? While GT5 and Forza are great, I have tended to stick to the PC sims due to the Dbox support. The Dbox has a really nice software interface and you can launche right from it, tune right from it, add games right from it. You also get support for over 40 games, including all the top sims that really matter. Trust me you'll have games to play. I've been petitioning them too add more and they just added C.A.R.S, rFactor2, and a few others! Very easy to install and use their software interface. Thanks buddy

 

[tribolik]

Hardly the same....
Adding motion is a massive upgrade but as discussed it can be violent, just as in the cockpit of various motorsports can be. It maybe depends where the user wants to draw the line between realism/simulation and just advanced gaming experiences.

I game for fun you see not to try and replicate the whole or real experience. For me it would be very mood dependant too as often I cant see me wanting to be moved around while playing. Just saying its not everyones cuppa...

And as FFB it can be dialed down to just rumble if you wish... and like many that dont like fighting the FFB because as they say their lap times suffer (initialy) you say the same about the motion sims... but with practice and a proper motion code you will eventualy (besides adding alot to the immersion) improve your lap times. It is just a gadget just like FFB or 3D or tactile. But IMO its the ultimate gadget (and the most expensive also unfortunatly)

 

[Mayaman]

Exactly, you get so much information from the tactile and movement as far as track nuances and Hazzards that might affect your lap times that you would never realize without it.

 

[Mr Latte]

I hear what your saying, Ive played all the old motion arcade games from Sega, Ive been to games shows and tested motion cockpit setups. I'm aware you referring to cues on track you can feel and it helps you memorise things in a way not possible without the tactile or motion.

Said before their is a 6DOF professional simulator within 2 miles from me, the same brand of unit Red Bull and other F1 companies use and I know it cost over £90,000. For me I tend to get motion type sickness from them or loose concentration with the movement rather than it say entertaining me further in a world of immersion.

With a few goes it's interesting really impressive but sorry lads for me I just do not think I'd buy into it or would enjoy say playing games for 3-4 hours with it running. It would become tiring and annoying for me as its appeal begins to wear off.

 

[Mayaman]

Different strokes I guess but I can't play without it now. I don't play racing games to be lulled to sleep which is what GT5 and Forza is doing now. For me the reason I simulation race is to closest simulate what being in a real car would be like. It's why we spend on the best wheels, screens, graphics, transducers, etc. if its not to do that I think sim racing is lacking. Might as well play Mario kart.

No reason for a cockpit, or wheel or pedals. You can do everything with a controller and probably achieve the best lap times if that's the only goal.


We got different likes and wants out of sim racing.

 

[Mr Latte]

Different strokes I guess but I can't play without it now. I don't play racing games to be lulled to sleep which is what GT5 and Forza is doing now. For me the reason I simulation race is to closest simulate what being in a real car would be like. It's why we spend on the best wheels, screens, graphics, transducers, etc. if its not to do that I think sim racing is lacking. Might as well play Mario kart.

No reason for a cockpit, or wheel or pedals. You can do everything with a controller and probably achieve the best lap times if that's the only goal.


We got different likes and wants out of sim racing.

Simulation will never offer a true reflection on the real experience and G forces felt. You feel safe in a sim for starters and it will never convey the real human body and mind experience. If the best drivers in the world that use the most advanced sims tell you it is not the same then I'm willing to accept that and always plainly understand its all just boys/toys. Yet you seem to fail to notice not everyone is so wooed by motion or feel it is that amazing.

I feel sorry for you that such a set-up you have bores you now in GT5/FM4. Just because it hasn't got motion (well not for the retail customer). Maybe you will never be content now as you want to continuously improve or upgrade things and I kinda know how that feels but ultimately a person who is content and pleased with their set-up probably enjoys their gaming moreso.

Personally I've always been more of a casual player but one who wants to experience gaming to an advanced technical level. Mainly for fun and entertainment but not because it possibly better replicates the simulation. Racing cars and tracks are often not nice or comfortable environments to be in so I'm quite happy to sit in a static seat with a degree of support and comfort. Maybe I will sway myself side to side and just imagine I am in a moving car for you but I wont be wearing a helmet like some prats on youtube and their motion sims.

Nah mate for me it is just a step too far into an illusion and one I dont particulary enjoy that much.
Put me on a rollercoster and I love it, ask me to go on it 10 times, well it starts becoming a bit boring and I guess your possibly always chasing now that next "excitment addon" rather than becoming content with what you have.

Do you remember when you considered triple projection for FM4 and thought it would be awesome? So I say give it a while and you will soon get bored of your motion and it will have to be upgraded or some new toy added. Are you a lover of gaming or a lover of buying things?

Doesn't matter how many handbags women have, they always want more so really maybe you share more in common with your "women" than you think.

I wish you happiness in your persuit of gaming pleasure or is that now racing replication.

 

[Mayaman]

Latte, I think you're going to the extreme end of the spectrum. While you'll never get a 100% 1:1 feeling of Gforce, I can tell you that when focused and driving hard and I mess up and go off the track, I clench myself for impact and grit my teeth. I would NEVER do that without the convincing motion, EVER. that's the best recommendation I can give motion over not having motion. Can't add anything more than that. Every individual will have to decide for themselves if that's something they want. It's exciting and engrossing, simple as that. I'm not relying on what anyone else says or feels, I care about what feel.

Some will like it, some won't. But bottom line is EVERY serious simulator has motion and transducer effects. If it wasn't better than no motion then they'd all just save the money and clamp a wheel to a desk. But it is better and it is convincing and it does fool your brain, this is a fact. If you're not able to suspend disbelief then it probably isn't for you. But it does work and it is convincing, otherwise real drivers wouldn't even bother with it.

And latte, it would suit you well not to get personal and making assumptions about how and why people do things. It's pretentious and wrong. How and why I spend my money is my business. I enjoy my hobby and have been doing it for a while. I'm a simulation fan, which means the closer it replicates real life the more I like it. Simple as that. Please don't ever assume to know why people do things, you only have your own experience to go by and can't possibly know what I or anybody else has in their head.

Thanks

 

[Mr Latte]

Sorry if you feel things are getting too personal, I'm not stating what your doing is wrong, it seems very clear your happy to constantly upgrade and continue chasing hardware, wanting more and more from the experience your sim can give you. I just question if doing that just becomes endless and never obtaining true satisfaction?

Maybe you have outgrown consoles since getting your motion? I can see you wanting to experience games using it rather than not using it of course but stating they are boring now is a bit of a sickening comment. Some would be overwhelmed by what you already had even before the motion.

People also play games for what they contain and offer. Perhaps your now motivated to playing what utilises your hardware moreso than just playing a game cause you like it. Is that what you find happening?
As a non offensive but interesting question do you feel your playing habbits are now being hardware driven?

For some in many hobbies part of the interest is in the continued chase, they really enjoy continuing to upgrade. Nobody criticised you about the price or money spent at all nor certainly told you what or how to spend it so lets be clear about that.

I've asked what you spent on it but you havn't as yet I don't think said. Personally I do not think such motion is worth mid thousands but that's just me and while options are available for less than what D-Box costs I just see it as the ultimate show off toy for such setups for people with pretty deep pockets.

Like I have stated several times if I am not overwhelmed by 6DOF on a professional motion system I am unlikely going to enjoy a D-Box or other for home enough to warrant its price. As you have said and we are best to agree we certainly have different end goals and requirements yet Im sure agree on many others.

I'm in the process of spending approx £3k on a PC so this isn't just sour grapes and with what I have already spent on components for my own cockpit could likely by now of had something similar.