Custom VisionRacer VR3. D-box motion, Dual TH8s, Triple projection.

[Mr Latte]

The X-Sim software is open source and constantly being developed. It can also support DIY motion rigs as well. I'm sure it can do just as much as the proprietary D-Box software can do.

My thoughts as well, but also much cheaper and because it is open potentially allow for something really extreme but to the users own design, implementation and configuration.

I guess I will find out how great this is in the coming months as my new PC parts have arrived. The Cosmos II case is amazing! Need to decide on a sound card though.

 

[alanchan2002]

1) Don't get me wrong, the actuator does not vibrate at 26,000 Hz, it is the feel.
2) The actuators can reproduce positions, slow movements, and continuous range of vibration frequencies from 0 to 100 Hz. The amplitude of movement is 35mm. Imagine the whole rig can move in mutiple direction at a distance of upto 35mm at 100 times per second. I am certain there is some G-force here but I just don't know exactly how much, however I was told slightly above 2G at the extreme.
3) I made an earlier mistakes that D-box uses the telemetry to decode the motion, I am partially wrong here after I clarified with them. Actually D-Box use the low frequency of the audio of the game with the game developer telling them how the low frequency is related to telemetery then D-Box write the codes for the motion.
4) Although I owned the D-box since late 2008 and know some of the guys there, however they put in so much research and patent on their system that they will never disclose much. Even till now, the only infor i know about the actuator is that she can hold upto 250lbs and period .... no spec available .... nothing. Anything wrong ask them and they will guide.
5) This system is very easy to maintained and so far no big problem.
6) D-Box is a closed system as compare to x-simulator and other motion system. In my opinion, they still cover a good range of racing title in PC.
7) I am not so sure whether motion will help in lap time, for my case is not and I am a lousy racer, so I go for immersion.

Last but not least, I think Mr. Mayaman is trying very hard to provide as much as information to the forum here but in reality DBOX did not disclose much in the first place.

 

[Mr Latte]

Great thank you again.

Don't get me wrong as a package and a simple to enjoy solution the D-Box is rather incredible but like many specialised cockpit builders and this area of the market the prices are rather highly inflated. Same with their cinema range of seats.

You stating they limit the effects to 100hz is rather surprising compared to typical tactile brands like Buttkicker which support upto around 300-400Hz and Clarke Tactile units upto 800HZ. Even on a LFE channel sometimes having a higher crossover range benefits the performance. This increased range from my experience can give much more detailed tactile effects if using good amplification, installation mounting and appropriate materials but as tactile is rather complicated and its performance is determined by several factors it too can be rather experimental.

Thanks again for the info, your input certainly gives additional clarity...

 

[mikemav]

The X-Sim software is open source and constantly being developed. It can also support DIY motion rigs as well. I'm sure it can do just as much as the proprietary D-Box software can do.

I think that may be close to true but with a more tinkering and assumptions. Keep in mind the dbox supported titles are supported by the game developer directly, so all that telemetry is built in. Getting that info accurately in xsim might be a challenge if not a stretch it compromise.

For example, I have the older ivibe tfs2 (waiting for me free tfs3 upgrade to be shipped.) Of the games I play, only rFactor has a direct "intellivibe" plug-in. This uses configurable, direct feedback from the game, so fit example I can feel the push from left leg to right leg transducers when I swerve, or front to back when I brake or accelerate. I also augment my tactile w/ stereo buttkuckers as well. With non-supported games I use audio cues or a universal plug in, but it's night and day better on the supported rFactor. So I'd think this level only better is built into all the dbox games...

 

[Mayaman]

I'm done with the silly questions and innuendo. D-box sucks and can't compare to other solutions. I'm a fool and D-box company kills many baby seals in the process of making their hugely overpriced stuff that isn't better than a buttkicker. How could I been such a sucker. Thanks for opening my eyes. I threw mine in the dumpster.

Oh, and for the record......D-box supports more titles directly via developers than any other solution. But who cares, it's hot garbage.

 

[mikemav]

I'm done with the silly questions and innuendo. D-box sucks and can't compare to other solutions. I'm a fool and D-box company kills many baby seals in the process of making their hugely overpriced stuff that isn't better than a buttkicker. How could I been such a sucker. Thanks for opening my eyes. I threw mine in the dumpster.

Where is that dumpster, cause I'll come running! I could probably even bring you what you paid for yours if you want a refund, lol! I want one.

 

[Mayaman]

Nah you're nuts, get a buttkicker.

And forget about triple projection that sucks too, totally not realistic junk.

Forget about silly immersion, that's for nerds.

I am buying one of those horsies in front of the drug store that takes quarters. YEEEEHAAAAAAH

 

[tribolik]

Yeah the buttkicker really kicks butt best thing since sliced bread... its so immersive I just sold my real car.

 

[Mr Latte]

I think as has been stated with D-Box you get a full service, a well performing product amongst the best in its field. Recognised with actual approved profiles from developers, several years experience and a well accomplished track record.

Nobody is denying that nor stating D-Box is rubbish.
Shame that the response and attitude has to be the way it is, so childish or that it seems impossible to question, discuss what possible benefits or differences their may be in trying different approaches for tactile entertainment. In the UK they are looking around £8000 for a VR3 similar D-Box configuration. Sorry but realistically most people I know think that is an incredible amount of money to spend on a motion toy and if you dont like it being called a "boys toy" well sorry that's how I see similar things like home cinema or home arcades.

Somebody seems to have a problem if their purchases are quizzed, questioned or get over defensive and ratty. Situation fully understood lets never question anything about D-Box, no this setup again.

Great setup you have and no doubt it will continue to get even more impressive, shame you can become so defensive. Still I applaud your efforts and inspiration.

 

[ilonioum]

Mayaman,
Mate, I do agree it is better than just tactile transducers, and it is even better combined with the tactile transducers. But would you call it a full motion compared to SimConMOTION (http://www.frex.com/gp/)?

I guess it is just a cheaper alternative, same as tactile is for most of the gamers

I apologize if I have missed something, did not have the time to read all the posts.

Cheers!

 

[geo1098]

Nah you're nuts, get a buttkicker.

@Mayaman, I found this thread related to what you are doing very useful. I had triple 26" LED tvs at one point but the bezel and aspect was a pain to live with. I've moved to the single small LED projector to get a better 1:1 view and it is nice to see someone who has worked out the kinks with using 3 and willing to share with everyone.

D-Box does sound pretty great and your experience with it is appreciated info.

 

[Mayaman]

I'm not wasting my time anymore. Simconmotion only moves your seat, period. It brings your arms and hands closer to the wheel and away for the wheel.

Nobody is acting childish here except a few people. Even had a guy give a detailed explanation as to how it works yet I keep getting asked the same stupid questions over and over.

So bottom line, just stick with X-sim, it's doesn't have as many supported games, its actuators don't give tactile, it moves your entire torso and arms away from the steering wheel while not moving any other part of the chassis, it isn't officially supported by some ofmthe biggest devs, basically it doesn't do everything Dbox does but it's better because it's open source and moves your chair more? Gotcha.

So basically disregard anything I've said about dbox in this thread. When I add the additional actuators to my rig and then four to my Fanatec rig I'll just enjoy it. Because no matter what anyone says or what ever testimonials are said its not better or slightly better than a buttkicker. Can't make this stuff up. Hilarious thing is having people argue that its this or that and they haven't even experienced it.

And I find comments about its immersion and movement suspect from anyone who's tried it in a mall or not at all.

So in closing, I welded my VR3 and got my new triple monitor mount. That's the topic of the thread. Dbox isn't worth talking about. Too many experts. :|

"Hey dbox is really convincing and it does tactile"

"no it isn't what do you know!"

" uh well I've auto crossed and track driven back in the 90s. I know a little something"

"nah, it's probably just a glorified buttkicker. No way it can be better than XYZ even though I haven't tried it"

"But it does feel convincing and here's why"

"nah it's to expensive, so it must be a toy for rich azzholes"

" no let me explain how it works...."

"yeah that's nice but let me ask a question you already answered"

Rinse/repeat

 

[superbike81]

Most people on this forum feel uncomfortable spending $200 on a Logitech G27, much less thousands as you have on your setup. So to them, they can't understand how it could be possibly be worth it, so they attack you.

If I was single, I probably would have a motion setup already, but it's been a fight to get my wife to not go crazy with the money I've spent so far. So no way could I get away with another few thousand or more on a proper motion rig (I do consider the D-Box a proper motion rig)

 

[ilonioum]

Just for you to know - you are not wasting your time, you are discussing/sharing with people something that you like. If people disagree it does not mean you are wrong or right, everybody has an opinion but you shouldn't give up on things you like.

As superbike said "if I wasn't married" I would already have a motion rig but there are more important thing when you have a family.

Dbox is a great option and if you like and if you can afford it then why not get it, I do not see any reason for holding back, most of the people here would love to get it but can't afford it.

I personally wouldn't get it because too much shaking can make me seek kidding

 

[Timppaq]

Motion has been around for years and has never got to become mainstream. I find this the biggest issue for personally not getting interested in it. I have ordered a new high end PC build for the upcoming games but again I do not feel compelled to get into motion.

For me it would be very mood dependant too as often I cant see me wanting to be moved around while playing. Just saying its not everyones cuppa...

With a few goes it's interesting really impressive but sorry lads for me I just do not think I'd buy into it or would enjoy say playing games for 3-4 hours with it running. It would become tiring and annoying for me as its appeal begins to wear off.

Nah mate for me it is just a step too far into an illusion and one I dont particulary enjoy that much.

Like I have stated several times if I am not overwhelmed by 6DOF on a professional motion system I am unlikely going to enjoy a D-Box or other for home enough to warrant its price.

I never said I don't enjoy it, I don't think I would want to sit for several hours playing it as I do get motion fatigue sickness as well.

The motion doesn't light my fire but the tactile does particularly if it uses software cues rather than audio as that is really a very undeveloped but potentially fantastic gaming enhancement.

We get it Latte, we get it. You don't like moting rigs. Good for you. Can you drop it now? We get it. Well, I get it at least

Somebody seems to have a problem if their purchases are quizzed, questioned or get over defensive and ratty. Situation fully understood lets never question anything about D-Box, no this setup again.

Great setup you have and no doubt it will continue to get even more impressive, shame you can become so defensive. Still I applaud your efforts and inspiration.

First you highlight over and over and over and over again how you really are not into motion platforms, and then come up with that? You know questioning by definition is always good, but you need to think a bit of how you do it if you really want to get some proper answers. And when you do, please read the answer.

I have to say you're one of the biggest trolls I've seen on here, especially on the hardware section. Your style is quite clever, I give you that but even then it really does no favours to you.

 

[Mayaman]

^^^exactly. Defensive? LOL I'm the one with Dbox, not the other way around. It's just tiring answering the same question over and over and over again, I mean, it's stupid.

Anyway the guy above me nailed it. No defensiveness at all, I'm just trying to educate.

 

[Mr Latte]

I've been questioning the tactile side of D Box, the OP himself even stated the motion without the tactile effects would be much less entertaining.

My position is different to others here Timpaq, having spent £3000+ on tactile/audio for a cockpit so yeah excuse me if I have a reason to be curious or question how good or specs details on how it works.

I won't bother continuing...

 

[tribolik]

Great.... there are many threads about tactile on this forum so you can have your questions answered there and we can get back on topic... still waiting for a video though

 

[lemansfanatic]

But still... Buttkickers are about as good as it gets... haha couldnt resist!

 

[tribolik]

But still... Buttkickers are about as good as it gets... haha couldnt resist!

It seems to me that you want to get your butt kicked...

Just kidding.

 

[Mayaman]

I responded that dbox has tactile several times, not aimed at you latte. But literally a few times including Alan. Let's just drop it, it's obvious that this peripheral isn't for this forum.

When I get an x-sim or ultraforcesim seat I'll post about it.

 

[Timppaq]

My position is different to others here Timpaq, having spent £3000+ on tactile/audio for a cockpit so yeah excuse me if I have a reason to be curious or question how good or specs details on how it works.

Mr Late, well if you've spent 3000+ for sound and tactile you must understand the passion. We all (at least most) strive to get the best possible experience for ourselfs with the budget we have available. Some could say 3000+ is ridiculous money for that, what you've been doing with it. Personally I don't, as I see it, you are the only one to judge if the money was well spent, just because it will be mostly you who will be using it. Spending that kind of money you should understand this. Spending that much on those, in my mind it actually gives you less reason to question someone getting a 8000+ or whatever D-box. Therefore I really can't comprehend your comment;

In the UK they are looking around £8000 for a VR3 similar D-Box configuration. Sorry but realistically most people I know think that is an incredible amount of money to spend on a motion toy

I can easily imagine it being possible, that when properly adjusted a D-box can only be a good thing. It gives you information, which is what you need as we 'live/drive/race' in a simulated world.

The one above is just another trollish comment, that could be turned right back at you seeing all the parts you've spent money in, like Subaru wings, rear lights etc. Don't know the money you spent on these kind of things, but it's your call and if you're happy with those so be it 👍

I bet most of us are curious of how good the D-box is, or what are the specs of it, but to mention how you really don't want anything to do with it, and how you see it unreasonable with every other post, then asking for good info & comments of it is quite a strange thing.

 

[Mr Latte]

But still... Buttkickers are about as good as it gets... haha couldnt resist!

Who said that then?

As for X-Sim it too can send game data for tactile via "Force Sender" that's what he missed or ignored being too busy criticising it as having inferior motion which funnily enough it's motion was never even what was being compared.

Once again for those of you too blind to notice I never criticised how or what Mayaman spends on this, only wondering just how far he would continue upgrading to a point does it ever properly satisfy with continued upgrades.


With that said their will be no further interruptions.

 

[Mayaman]

Latte are you nuts? Or are you purposefully this hard headed? I IGNORED!? I IGNORED! Gimme a break, I didn't ignore $hit. X-sim can't do tactile via the actuators, which dbox can which is the point I made like ten times. And let's not forget THIS IS MY THREAD ABOUT DBOX, NEVER ONCE DID I SAY I HAD XSIM OR MADE ANY MENTION AS ME HAVING XSIM YET CERTAIN PEOPLE NEEDED TO INTRODUCE THAT INTO A THREAD OF HOW TO, LEARNING, AND INFORMATION.

Then like Timpaq points out above you question costs and dismiss it as a "toy" yet you yourself have spent thousands on something that isn't even as convincing.

Dbox is used by pro teams in 40,000 F1 simulators, also VirtualGT, whom I knew the creator before he went public even said he added Dbox to his VirtualGT because tactile wasn't enough. This coming from one of the pioneers of tactile in sim racing. Go ahead and do the research on the VirtualGT which now has Dbox because it ADDS realism, moreso than tactile.

The blatant attempts to feign innocence here are becoming insulting, especially when you continue to under your breath fling insults.

C'mon dude, seriously just forget this thread. D-box clearly isn't for you, it's a toy for F1 drivers and 20,000 simulators.

Sheesh

 

[Timppaq]

Once again or those of you too blind to notice I never criticised how or what Mayaman spends on this, only wondering just how far he would continue upgrading to a point does it ever properly satisfy his continued upgrades.

Maybe you're too blind to notice if you write something like this:

Sorry but realistically most people I know think that is an incredible amount of money to spend on a motion toy

Why would you post anything like that if you wouldn't like to imply likewise. If not, just shows how you really don't understand how your words come out. Which, in fact, could explain a lot.

And I'm out. Peace.

 

[Mr Latte]

NEVER ONCE DID I SAY YOU HAD X-SIM NEITHER!!!!
Why do you make it out as if I said that?

X SIM ACTUATORS HAVING TACTILE WAS NEVER STATED BY ME
It doesn't need them in the actuator as it allows traditional tactile to be used.
Question is can it produce better results if multiple tactile are incorporated?
You have researched this or know of comparisons by others?

EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE TO JUST ACCEPT D-BOX IS ULTIMATE
Nobody wants to consider other possibilities and talking of them should never of even been raised by me.

Time to change my coffee...

 

[Mayaman]

Dude the point being nobody who started this thread has x-sim. Comparisons and mentions of Dbox being "toy" compared to Xsim wasn't brought up by me now was it. When ever proper information about dbox was given it was ignored.

Xsim should have never been compared in this thread since I don't own it and this wasn't a comparison thread. This wasn't a hey guys how much does dbox suck thread. This wasn't a hey guys, let see how covertly we can insult the OP thread by ignoring his requests to stay on topic.

I never said anything was ultimate. I merely wanted to show what could be done with a VR3, dbox, and triple projection to increase immersion and reality, you know before you started insulting things as toys and not as accurate XYZ, and telling me how to spend my money. This entire train wreck was created by you my friend. And now you're trying flip the script onto me? Pretty funny.

 

[Mr Latte]

I never said D-BOX was a toy compared to X-Sim neither...
I made reference to all this type of hardware being "Boys Toys", and I explained my perception of what I call toys.

Again get your facts right I never once told you how to spend your money and as for me taking the thread off topic it was hardly the first time it has happened. UK prices are much worse for D-BOX and by all means just work out what 8K is in $.

I never said you stated it was ultimate neither but you constantly shot down other possibilities and well that's a shame as their are things you could do to further enhance your systems tactile and audio. You also clearly mention my own immersion configuration is inferior to your actuator tactile, how do you know if it is or isn't when I've never shown yet it's full configuration will be?

 

[Mayaman]

Obviously you won't stop till the thread is locked. If you can't see you've been that catalyst here even after several posters have quoted your questionable contributions I don't know what to tell you.

I'm done with this ticky tack. Please don't muck this thread any more. I don't care about Xsim in this thread or tactile. That's it.

If you respond with anything else can someone just please ask a mod to lock and delete the thread.

Also the price of dbox has been brought up, so you all know I'm getting this equipment at a huge discount, in some instances as low as Xsim.


Thanks

 

[tribolik]

The X-sim doesnt feel right to me... only the seat moves and the wheel stands still.
The D-box on the other hand allows all the cockpit to move around including the monitors.