"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

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Sven Jurgens
What to do with a dive bomb? Here I avoid one, lose 2.5 sec on my lap time and 2 spots.

Attacker gets away free, thinks he made a great overtake and speeds away.

Fact is, he had zero overlap before turn in. I had to abort turning and brake more to avoid. Is it just me that thinks that's a dirty move or am I racing wrong? Btw I'm in the crap GT-R which needs to brake early. At least I got the CRB in one go in that piece of junk, next!
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I'd need to see it from his view. You braked early and you're wide so you're somewhat slowly mooching into the apex. In my experience of online racing that gap is going to get a car in it 90% of the time - though I'm not 100% how far it has come from based on the rear view mirror. Per my clip the other day, if you did that in front of me and I was close, then I'd be in there. The majority of players of this game are not going to resist opportunities. It is an unfortunate truth that if you drive defensively to avoid the punt/contact then you're going to be slower and lose positions. If you just take the hit the result may be the same. I often move out of the way or surrender the position. If I have a car within range as I go into that corner then I'm thinking defensively at getting on to that apex sharpish, even if it means compromising the rest of my S1 time by a few tenths. The longer you are exposed to danger, the more likely you are to get hit.

ETA. Just checked to see and the car was a Huracan, itself not a great machine for braking but it appears to be on a normal racing line/speed.
 
Voodoovaj
Given your time, I think the problem is that you are on the wrong part of the track. You may also be on the brakes too long, and shifting too early.

At Suzuka, you REALLY need to be on those apexes. Almost every corner is cambered toward the apex, so if you are wide of the apex, you slide a lot. Also, if you hold the brakes too long, you'll get more under steer than if you bleed off them or even lift off them completely a little earlier. Lastly, almost all the cars lock up the rear a little if you revs a re too high on the downshift, so you can lose the rear on entry.

If you take it slow, even an exaggerated slow, and just worry about hitting the apex, I bet you'll go faster than that 2:06
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I'll try the slow approach tonight and see how it goes. Come to think of it I was driving a lot smoother when I ran my fastest time. When i felt "ragged or clunky" it showed in my E.T. Thanks for that tip.
 
Done another race. Started 6th, down to 7th early on after trying to take 5th, back up to 6th. All running close, I almost managed to nick 4th from a Merc going up the hill into the fast right hander but was on the outside and not quite ahead, dived a little into the hairpin by a Ferrari who was eager to have a lunge, but we were very close, within striking distance of 3rd and then...



I'm the unfortunate sod in the Silk Cut Jag, the Russian instigator - no penalty
 
Tea_Leaves
Agreed, I regret having not tried it out earlier. NSX is awesome and seemingly underrated, I've seen only a handful in my races this week. I think I got my fastest race times compared to everything else I've used.

Also qualified in it and ended up with 1:39.2. Surprisingly, that gave me 8th on the grid and I finished with my highest position of 5th.

For anyone that cares, tyres and times:


3266bf47be.jpg
82459792f3.jpg
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NSX is good. It's faster than the 86 as a bonus.
 
250Cal
I'd need to see it from his view. You braked early and you're wide so you're somewhat slowly mooching into the apex. In my experience of online racing that gap is going to get a car in it 90% of the time - though I'm not 100% how far it has come from based on the rear view mirror. Per my clip the other day, if you did that in front of me and I was close, then I'd be in there. The majority of players of this game are not going to resist opportunities. It is an unfortunate truth that if you drive defensively to avoid the punt/contact then you're going to be slower and lose positions. If you just take the hit the result may be the same. I often move out of the way or surrender the position. If I have a car within range as I go into that corner then I'm thinking defensively at getting on to that apex sharpish, even if it means compromising the rest of my S1 time by a few tenths. The longer you are exposed to danger, the more likely you are to get hit.

ETA. Just checked to see and the car was a Huracan, itself not a great machine for braking but it appears to be on a normal racing line/speed.
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I've tried the defensive line approach there and over half the time that gets me either punted off or someone so desperate to squeeze further on the inside that they hit me and the wall, penalty for me.

I don't think I was slow in that corner, I put laps 4 to 7 together for that corner:

Pretty consistent, not the fastest sure, partially because of a car not really suited to the track. However that doesn't make it ok for the car behind to overtake like that? GT Sport is supposed to be an E sport. Sports have rules. PD is mostly to blame for not setting down any rules apart from a broken penalty system and a rather useless etiquette video.

The thing is, he was not close. Close is where I go for it in lap 5. Almost 0.5 sec behind is just that, behind. If the car ahead takes the corner reasonably, like I did, you have no right to sabotage the line of the car in front. Anyway that's my 2 cents and the way I race. I do often put my car slightly to the inside to brake out of slipstream and to have a clear view of my brake maker. However often the car in front thinks I'm going to dive on him. Sometimes they brake too late and go wide, which just makes me feel bad, or they swerve to block me putting me back in their slipstream. So I usually brake early expecting to eat slipstream anyway.
 
Sven Jurgens
I've tried the defensive line approach there and over half the time that gets me either punted off or someone so desperate to squeeze further on the inside that they hit me and the wall, penalty for me.

I don't think I was slow in that corner, I put laps 4 to 7 together for that corner:

Pretty consistent, not the fastest sure, partially because of a car not really suited to the track. However that doesn't make it ok for the car behind to overtake like that? GT Sport is supposed to be an E sport. Sports have rules. PD is mostly to blame for not setting down any rules apart from a broken penalty system and a rather useless etiquette video.

The thing is, he was not close. Close is where I go for it in lap 5. Almost 0.5 sec behind is just that, behind. If the car ahead takes the corner reasonably, like I did, you have no right to sabotage the line of the car in front. Anyway that's my 2 cents and the way I race. I do often put my car slightly to the inside to brake out of slipstream and to have a clear view of my brake maker. However often the car in front thinks I'm going to dive on him. Sometimes they brake too late and go wide, which just makes me feel bad, or they swerve to block me putting me back in their slipstream. So I usually brake early expecting to eat slipstream anyway.
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Lap 5 - that's how you overtake.

To be in that position you've earned it by having a great last sector/corner exit and dragged him up the straight.

Lap 6 - nah

He's not earned that at all. He's just gone full send hoping to God that you're gonna stay out of the way... Not cool.
 
Sven Jurgens
I've tried the defensive line approach there and over half the time that gets me either punted off or someone so desperate to squeeze further on the inside that they hit me and the wall, penalty for me.

I don't think I was slow in that corner, I put laps 4 to 7 together for that corner:

Pretty consistent, not the fastest sure, partially because of a car not really suited to the track. However that doesn't make it ok for the car behind to overtake like that? GT Sport is supposed to be an E sport. Sports have rules. PD is mostly to blame for not setting down any rules apart from a broken penalty system and a rather useless etiquette video.

The thing is, he was not close. Close is where I go for it in lap 5. Almost 0.5 sec behind is just that, behind. If the car ahead takes the corner reasonably, like I did, you have no right to sabotage the line of the car in front. Anyway that's my 2 cents and the way I race. I do often put my car slightly to the inside to brake out of slipstream and to have a clear view of my brake maker. However often the car in front thinks I'm going to dive on him. Sometimes they brake too late and go wide, which just makes me feel bad, or they swerve to block me putting me back in their slipstream. So I usually brake early expecting to eat slipstream anyway.
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I fully agree. It's just bad at Interlagos. I honestly wish they would penalize cutting the pit entrance line. I had the inside line on the last turn and left no space, the car directly behind me cut up the inside and across the pit lane smashed into my left side, bounced off the wall, I get a four second penalty. I understand the reality of how aggressive people can be in this game, but we should be able to expect better. Interlagos creates a situation where that kind of **** is rewarded unfortunately.
 
Sven Jurgens
I don't think I was slow in that corner, I put laps 4 to 7 together for that corner
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IMO you're consistently slow into that corner - braking too early and spending too much time going slowly off the brakes before the apex. That's why someone was able to come from half a second back, beat you to the apex, and hold a normal line after that. I've got Kie's stream on at the moment, and I've just checked a couple of his runs through that corner, and he's on the brakes almost all the way to the apex.
 
Sven Jurgens
I've tried the defensive line approach there and over half the time that gets me either punted off or someone so desperate to squeeze further on the inside that they hit me and the wall, penalty for me.

I don't think I was slow in that corner, I put laps 4 to 7 together for that corner:

Pretty consistent, not the fastest sure, partially because of a car not really suited to the track. However that doesn't make it ok for the car behind to overtake like that? GT Sport is supposed to be an E sport. Sports have rules. PD is mostly to blame for not setting down any rules apart from a broken penalty system and a rather useless etiquette video.

The thing is, he was not close. Close is where I go for it in lap 5. Almost 0.5 sec behind is just that, behind. If the car ahead takes the corner reasonably, like I did, you have no right to sabotage the line of the car in front. Anyway that's my 2 cents and the way I race. I do often put my car slightly to the inside to brake out of slipstream and to have a clear view of my brake maker. However often the car in front thinks I'm going to dive on him. Sometimes they brake too late and go wide, which just makes me feel bad, or they swerve to block me putting me back in their slipstream. So I usually brake early expecting to eat slipstream anyway.
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Do you have the overtake from his car on replay? I couldn't see the time gap but agree 0.5 sec is too much.

IMO (and that's all it is), your line there is a good line for running in the clear, or qually, as it gets you out of T1 quickly, through T2/3 and onto the straight and gives a good S1. If I've someone behind me I compromise that, which has other downsides, because I expect people to be punchy.
 
I know it's been said before, many times but Interlagos is just too dirty, especially if you try to race from the back and it's all PD's fault. I must have been hit muliple times by every single car I was near and that was like half the field without any of them being enough for a penalty. Eventually I shamefully snapped and intentionally spun a car by turning left into the last right hander in sector 2, the other car went for a great spin but I guess somehow it must have never gone off track, so of course the game just allowed it. It's really no wonder people race so aggressively when junk like that is allowed and goes unpunished. :banghead:

I stopped racing after that and set a Q time in the 86 as that is what I'm using now, just about got into the 1:37's with it so if I race again on my main account I should start nearish to the front now. :)

Starting from the back was no good, as every time someone actually started behind me they'd just barge their way through and then hold me up anyway. It's no wonder @Sven Jurgens just lets all the other no qualifying cars through if this is how they all race and it's no wonder other cars seem to target the no Q cars too, they've probably had enough of all the contact they cause. :yuck:

:(:(:(:(:(
 
Well I've had a couple more, first one had The Kie in it running from the back. I had the honour of getting tapped wide at the hairpin at the top of the hill (T 10?) then receiving a 3s penalty as the other car went off the track to the right and we both parted like the red sea to wave Kie through into 6th. I should have defended the inside tightly, I'd just done him with a good move and felt I was far enough ahead for him not to try the overtake but he saw fit to push up the inside. Real shame because I was looking forward to trying to defend against Kie!

What that race did do was plunge my SR down 16 points, which was a bit of a joke to be fair. Recovered most of it in my next race where I started pole and finished 2nd behind a Megane but think that'll be it for sport tonight.




So if any of you guys are doing a lobby anywhere...
 
breeminator
IMO you're consistently slow into that corner - braking too early and spending too much time going slowly off the brakes before the apex. That's why someone was able to come from half a second back, beat you to the apex, and hold a normal line after that. I've got Kie's stream on at the moment, and I've just checked a couple of his runs through that corner, and he's on the brakes almost all the way to the apex.
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Again, he only beat me to the apex because I stopped to avoid him. Although if I had continued turning and started accelerating where I started to get off the brakes, I would have ended up on the green somewhere beyond :lol:

He's not taking a good line through T1 imo, if you compare where I am in lap 5 and where he is in lap 6, he's still braking and missed the apex. He hits it in T2 so he knows where it is :) I'm in the GT-R which understeers with bad brakes, hence so slow into T1. (I only drove it to try all cars) I always go slow in fast out btw. And yep I get a lot of bumpers close to me at the apex to fall back almost a second again after corner exit. It seems 90% out is playing a game of tag with fast in slow out approach.

It's nice to keep braking all the way to the apex, but that doesn't make it a braking zone until there.
BrakingZone1.png

This rule about beating the other car to the apex is only the second part of the sentence.

the attacker takes an inside line, gets alongside the defender in the braking zone, and beats the defender to the apex.

and, not or. Anyway is Kie driving a GT-R? :)

Interlagos is interesting this week since the cars are so different along the track. However that leads to many dive bombs, perhaps PD should stick to one makes...

astrarobotica
I fully agree. It's just bad at Interlagos. I honestly wish they would penalize cutting the pit entrance line. I had the inside line on the last turn and left no space, the car directly behind me cut up the inside and across the pit lane smashed into my left side, bounced off the wall, I get a four second penalty. I understand the reality of how aggressive people can be in this game, but we should be able to expect better. Interlagos creates a situation where that kind of **** is rewarded unfortunately.
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You do get penalized for crossing the entry line, one way I lost the CRB.
TFNkgAO.gif

But penalties from cars coming from outside track limits and ramming you are common :(
 
Ashthebash
I should have defended the inside tightly, I'd just done him with a good move and felt I was far enough ahead for him not to try the overtake but he saw fit to push up the inside.
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Does not matter, defending tightly does not stop the average driver from attempting a pass there, they'll just go on to the grass if they have to, even when it may get them a track limit penalty. Also if defending hard you'll then be slow off the corner and some drivers will just push you a bit at the back of your car when you are trying to accelerate, this will unsettle your car and they'll drive past on the inside of the next corner. I've tried plenty of things there and not found anything that works 100% of the time yet.
 
250Cal
Do you have the overtake from his car on replay? I couldn't see the time gap but agree 0.5 sec is too much.

IMO (and that's all it is), your line there is a good line for running in the clear, or qually, as it gets you out of T1 quickly, through T2/3 and onto the straight and gives a good S1. If I've someone behind me I compromise that, which has other downsides, because I expect people to be punchy.
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No, I only have my live video feed. The exact gap was 0.443 at the moment I hit the brakes.

The other downside of a defensive line is getting punted lol. I've been punted so much there taking an inside line that I rather stay on the outside where I have a better chance of surviving. That doesn't make it right though :/
 
ASH32
Does not matter, defending tightly does not stop the average driver from attempting a pass there, they'll just go on to the grass if they have to, even when it may get them a track limit penalty. Also if defending hard you'll then be slow off the corner and some drivers will just push you a bit at the back of your car when you are trying to accelerate, this will unsettle your car and they'll drive past on the inside of the next corner. I've tried plenty of things there and not found anything that works 100% of the time yet.
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True but if I defend very tight to the right there's no door for him to go through (so he probably goes through my car!). Was just annoyed after getting him with that switch back and making the pass stick that I couldn't keep the spot and if I'm tight to the right his eyes can't light up! That corner is as bad as the final sector at Fuji for lunges

In saying all that, if he doesn't veer two inches off the track to the right after the contact I don't get a penalty and I keep the position... sort of, before losing it to Kie!
 
Here's the thing, even if @Sven Jurgens had gone full D on the inside as if to hug T1 all the way, by the speed that chap came up and entered the corner we're heading to the shadow realm. There was no way he was gonna get that stopped to avoid contact.

Likewise for @Ashthebash

Just because taking the ideal line through the corners looks like you're opening the door, doesnt give the person behind the right to plough on through.
 
Have they done anything with track resets at the run off of T1 at Interlagos? In the past if you got spanked up the arse there you could just fly through the run off zone without penalty and even set a fastest lap. Defending hard inside at T1 is good and safer than anywhere else on this track, especially if you still have a free pass to cut the corner if punted. The only problem is if someone is brave enough and good enough to go around the outside because you kind of have to chop them a bit in the next part of the corner, so that will be no good for @Sven Jurgens as it will ruin his clean race. (Well probably, I get a clean race bonus having had penalties every now and then). :lol:
 
Sven Jurgens
No, I only have my live video feed. The exact gap was 0.443 at the moment I hit the brakes.

The other downside of a defensive line is getting punted lol. I've been punted so much there taking an inside line that I rather stay on the outside where I have a better chance of surviving. That doesn't make it right though :/
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ASH32
Does not matter, defending tightly does not stop the average driver from attempting a pass there, they'll just go on to the grass if they have to, even when it may get them a track limit penalty. Also if defending hard you'll then be slow off the corner and some drivers will just push you a bit at the back of your car when you are trying to accelerate, this will unsettle your car and they'll drive past on the inside of the next corner. I've tried plenty of things there and not found anything that works 100% of the time yet.
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As discussed the other day, I am no expert but have done quite a bit of time in sport mode and have a good idea how people play. I did want to share an example of someone snowploughing from the back but I've deleted the replay as my HDD was full.

Here's a couple of examples from the other day.

Firstly, probably the biggest difference between @Sven Jurgens and I. I'm not saying either approach is the right one but if anything Sven's is definitely the safest and most thoughtful.



In this situation I'll be more aggressive, whilst still being conservative. There's obviously going to be some issues in this gaggle of cars. I'm trying to put myself somewhere to gain an advantage without a) being the punter and b) being the puntee. I back out of the throttle and brake early, but I'm probably 2-3 car lengths closer than Sven would be because I'm prepared to take an SR knock if I get caught up in something but the reward is worth the risk. On this occasion the Ferrari serves a penalty, unghosts with his foot on the gas and cleans out the cars ahead.

This is what I referred to the other day with the Cayman. The other driver is DR B though his performance is erratic over time. He is a veteran of nearly 2200 races. https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=1765521 Watching the replay, he did get more sketchy as I got closer to him and clearly watching the gap coming down will be on his mind. Ideally, I try to use the speed difference to get by as quickly and cleanly as possible.



Straight away as I catch him, he's slow through T1 and T2 and I've a big overspeed in T3, where he moves to close the door so I lift. I leave loads of room at T4, as does he, and we're side by side but he closes the door again and I back out. Then I struggle a bit with his driving style and lines and his braking catches me out a couple of times and I make contact, so I drop back and leave space. I then make the mistake of catching him too quickly out of Juncao and blow the best opportunity to get by because I'm on the outside. A couple of times I drop back to create speed to gain some momentum but in the end it takes me two laps and I drop almost six seconds. If I'd been more clinical it would have been done much quicker. Equally, if I'd just given him a bit of a nudge In T3 or T4 when I caught him.
Perhaps the biggest irony is that once I do overtake, he gets all excited and runs up the back of me into T1 and tries to push by. The line I took into there, focusing on being on the apex with zero workable space inside, means the contact is on the rear of the car, not the side, so he bumps me down the hill, rather than across the track after which I can make my escape.

Per what was discussed the other day. The driver who punted me off for my aggression on that occasion had done the same kind of moves, or worse, to two other drivers earlier in the race. In this instance someone I've done by best to give space and respect to goes for a bump pass immediately after they've been overtaken cleanly.

Edit @JoeyLeonine , if I take a wide line at 3:14, I'm getting sent. On that narrower line I think that's less likely, even if it is slower.

Such is GTSport.

I would like to see videos of other people racing as without exception every race I've been in at Interlagos this week has been jam packed with bump passes and punts. If people are getting CRBs running in the middle of the pack that is deeply impressive. It is entirely possible to drive side by side around this circuit if you leave space and think. However, the text books are, to a large extent, out the window.
 
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ASH32
Does not matter, defending tightly does not stop the average driver from attempting a pass there, they'll just go on to the grass if they have to, even when it may get them a track limit penalty. Also if defending hard you'll then be slow off the corner and some drivers will just push you a bit at the back of your car when you are trying to accelerate, this will unsettle your car and they'll drive past on the inside of the next corner. I've tried plenty of things there and not found anything that works 100% of the time yet.
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Yeah at Interlagos you can be fully on the kerb and someone will still try to take the inside.
 
All controversy aside, mission accomplished for the week, thanks to a pretty clean Friday morning.
0FeUDlA.jpg

27 GR.4 cars with CRB driven from the back. I dropped to DR.C for a bit during this challenge as there is no consideration for cars that don't 'fit' the racing style of other cars. Hence a lot of getting bumped off to try again or brake to avoid and let the rest back through not to get SR Down from a bumper tapper. Currently back to DR.B but not by much, 11K DR. Was about to drop to C again with the Megane.

I drove them all without pitting to stay consistent, which made the FF cars useless after lap 8. The trophy for the worst car for the daily C this week goes to the Peugeot RCZ. Look at them lap times.... Some I had to avoid cars but that last lap was all clear road :lol:
9KMozoj.jpg

Brake balance max to the rear to 'save' the front tires.

Challenge completed, time to drive the good cars. 458, 86, NSX, Huracan, not the Trophy.

@250Cal The videos you posted are private! Can't see them.
 
Sven Jurgens
The trophy for the worst car for the daily C this week goes to the Peugeot RCZ.
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Yeah, I tried it with high BB to the rear, that was a useless endeavor. Finished last by 20 seconds and didn't cross the finish line. :embarrassed:

Illum_Concept
You have to keep racing there, on the off chance it will only be you! Wonder if that's ever happened
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I didn't find anything myself. I'd guess it disconnects before you reach the pre-lobby screen. It'd be kind of funny for only one person to appear during the "Waiting for players to finish getting ready..." message.
 
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