"Daily" Race Discussion

[BloodRaven]

Decided to give it another go. Started 4th, ended 3rd. No issues, whatsoever. DR dropped, again. It's like you get penalized for good, clean driving. But if you bang your way through the field, knocking people out of the way, punting them off, and raise your position considerably, you get more DR. Tell me how that's a good thing.

They need to bring back penalties. And I mean penalties for more than just cutting a corner or being put into a wall by another driver.

People complained about the penalties when we had them. Then people complained about the lack of penalties when they took them away. I'd rather have them, than not.

 

[smcqueen46]

It will likely require a 1,000,000 car.

If you get in a financial bind, go to Campaign->GT League->Professional League->Premium Sports Lounge->Blue Moon Bay.
You can use any sports car. Up to N1000 is allowed, but if you use lower ranked cars, you get a bonus.
It's pretty easy to win the race with the Ferrari F40.
Lower the power until it's in the N400 category. Do whatever you want with the weight. There's no tire wear, so equip the Racing Super Soft tires. Lower ride height to the minimum. Set you transmission top speed to 180.

The race payout is 100,000. If you win it with an N400 car, you get 130% car handicap bonus. Now you're at 230,000.
If you don't hit any walls, you'll get an additional 50% clean race bonus (be careful around the A.I. cars). Total payout would be 345,000.
And the race should only take about 12 minutes.

*Some folks do it with the N300 XBow, but that car sucks. It goes sideways whenever you lift off the throttle.

Thanks very much for that advice. This (smcqueen461--notice how creative I am with naming!) being a new account, I first had to accumulate enough experience points to become a Ruby drive to get access to the Premium Sports Lounge. I got points mostly through Achievements: like photos, like liveries, take photos, get drift points, etc. Then I was able to get an Alfa Romeo 4C N400 through mileage exchange (I didn't want to spend credits to buy a car if I could help it) which I detuned to N500 and won a bunch of races. I did a few at Blue Moon Bay but then got tired of turning left so much, so I also did GTS, Monza, and a couple of others. Now that account has about 1.8M credits!

Decided to give it another go. Started 4th, ended 3rd. No issues, whatsoever. DR dropped, again. It's like you get penalized for good, clean driving. But if you bang your way through the field, knocking people out of the way, punting them off, and raise your position considerably, you get more DR. Tell me how that's a good thing.

They need to bring back penalties. And I mean penalties for more than just cutting a corner or being put into a wall by another driver.

People complained about the penalties when we had them. Then people complained about the lack of penalties when they took them away. I'd rather have them, than not.

That does sound weird!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I'm getting extremely close to the point where I don't want to do daily races, anymore. I did 1 race, today (just now). I was DR "C". I started 16, finished 12th; and had a clean race. My DR dropped over 2000 points. And that dropped me down to the level below.

WTF?!

The whole finishing ahead of drivers who have a higher DR rating than you, the door numbers, all that BS needs to either go away, or they need to ALSO take into account what kind of race you had. No penalties? Your DR goes up a bit. Clean race? Your DR goes up a bit. Make clean passes and finish higher than where you started? Your DR goes up a bit.

Now I'll be in a lobbies full of rammers, punters, and overall idiot drivers.

🤬🤬🤬


ETA: Yep, I think I'm done. Just ran another race. Started 15th, finished 10th; and another clean race. DR dropped another 162 points.

The DR system is basically broken under 40K DR. It all depends too much on who you are matched with and DR is no indication of pace at lower levels. Too many new account entering all the time (rooms full of E/B are very common) as well as DR resets all the time. So even if you get matched with all C/S, quite a few are probably racing with DR.A pace or even higher.

I don't qualify and what happens to my DR depends on time of day, day of the week, how dirty the backfield is, who I'm matched with and lastly how well I perform...

How dirty or clean a race is also has little to do with DR and SR. Time of day is a much bigger factor and of course whether you're in the backfield or front.

DR calculation is just some formula comparing you to the DR of others that entered the race. Since DR isn't really tied to race pace (only at the very top you could say it is) it's basically pot luck what happens to your DR.


Best you can do, ignore DR.


What I hope GT7 will do is overhaul matchmaking entirely. Leave DR out of matchmaking completely. Instead determine race pace for every track/car combo and make matches based on that.

Race pace for a certain combo can be refined while doing that combo, simply by taking the average of your lap times minus outliers. Take this from the last 5 (or more) times you did that combo and you have an accurate running average. Much better than one DR number that takes many many races before it resembles your pace in a certain combo.

To determine your pace for the first few races, either take a modified (lowered) avg from your best qualifying laps (minus outliers). Race pace is usually lower than qualifying pace but since it's a fairly consistent difference the system could easily take that into account. For example start race pace is 95% of your qualifying pace.

For those that don't qualify, either base it on past experience on that track (modified for the current car / tires combo) or use some prediction algorithm based on your other races and track experience for the this track.

PD has tons and tons of data. They need to hire a statistician and together with an AI specialist it should be possible to make a predictive algorithm to sort everyone on actual race pace.


DR can still remain separate as some overall combined score. But get rid of the resets and let it not have any influence on matchmaking. Matchmaking should go by SR, then sort everyone on race pace to make rooms. (While fixing the bug that the fastest lower SR players get added to the slowest higher SR players)

No more easier races by dropping SR.
No more sandbagging possible (unless you intentionally drive slow for 5 races)
No more getting put with too high competition on tracks you don't really have experience on.

This way GT7 can deliver what GT Sport promised. Matchmaking that puts you together with people with similar driving style and race pace. (If SR gets fixed as well, that's another story)

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Some opinions on what's dirty or not. I got called out by these two drivers for my dirty driving.

At the start of the video a skirmish at the final chicane. 'S' was slowing down the field for a while, in lap 4 I come alongside him in the braking zone but back off, he's ahead into and in the chicane, simple.

Next at 1 minute, lap 5, I get ahead in the braking zone, still halfway alongside in the chicane where he bumps me, slowing me a bit. I don't back off and claim the apex. Bullish I admit, but I'm not sure what the etiquette is in chicanes, there's always the leave room rule. Not try to squeeze people off, he had plenty room to make a wider turn and have the inside in the next turn.
Of course then he dive bombs me in T1 and self destructs. Lost me 2 positions but at least no longer holding up the race...

Second incident at 1:55 in the video. 'r' starts to brake too early, I start braking a bit before the 150 marker since I'm in the slipstream. It becomes obvious I'm going to hit him if I don't move, so move to the inside to avoid. Pass him in the braking zone, dead even when he starts to turn in, beat him to the apex and would have easily made the corner without his nose tapping my back. But he calls it a dive bomb... (same video, time stamped at the 2nd incident)

Thoughts? First one, I admit, not clean, but what can you do with a driver that keeps blocking and cutting off while traffic bunches up behind you. It's never going to end well. At some point you have to go for it or get hit from behind. Second one, imo, not a dive bomb by any rule I'm aware off.

 

[redbullfix]

Some opinions on what's dirty or not. I got called out by these two drivers for my dirty driving.

At the start of the video a skirmish at the final chicane. 'S' was slowing down the field for a while, in lap 4 I come alongside him in the braking zone but back off, he's ahead into and in the chicane, simple.

Next at 1 minute, lap 5, I get ahead in the braking zone, still halfway alongside in the chicane where he bumps me, slowing me a bit. I don't back off and claim the apex. Bullish I admit, but I'm not sure what the etiquette is in chicanes, there's always the leave room rule. Not try to squeeze people off, he had plenty room to make a wider turn and have the inside in the next turn.
Of course then he dive bombs me in T1 and self destructs. Lost me 2 positions but at least no longer holding up the race...

Second incident at 1:55 in the video. 'r' starts to brake too early, I start braking a bit before the 150 marker since I'm in the slipstream. It becomes obvious I'm going to hit him if I don't move, so move to the inside to avoid. Pass him in the braking zone, dead even when he starts to turn in, beat him to the apex and would have easily made the corner without his nose tapping my back. But he calls it a dive bomb... (same video, time stamped at the 2nd incident)

Thoughts? First one, I admit, not clean, but what can you do with a driver that keeps blocking and cutting off while traffic bunches up behind you. It's never going to end well. At some point you have to go for it or get hit from behind. Second one, imo, not a dive bomb by any rule I'm aware off.

First driver did not leave space, intentional or not, the fault is his
This lesson has taken me some pain to learn as well

That dive bomb does show how little respect he has for his competitors, truly poor sportsmanship

 

[JustMac]

Decided to give it another go. Started 4th, ended 3rd. No issues, whatsoever. DR dropped, again. It's like you get penalized for good, clean driving. But if you bang your way through the field, knocking people out of the way, punting them off, and raise your position considerably, you get more DR. Tell me how that's a good thing.

They need to bring back penalties. And I mean penalties for more than just cutting a corner or being put into a wall by another driver.

People complained about the penalties when we had them. Then people complained about the lack of penalties when they took them away. I'd rather have them, than not.

Have PD actually said anything about them removing penalties? I can only assume they're coming back in GT 7.

I only started playing GTS again in the last month or so (since Spring 2021) and I can unequivocally say the racing is significantly worse. First corners are an absolute cluster**** even in S Sr lobbies.

The penalty system, flawed as it was, was like having a gun to racers' heads and forced clean driving.

 

[BloodRaven]

Have PD actually said anything about them removing penalties? I only started playing GTS again in the last month or so (since Spring 2021) and I can unequivocally say the racing is worse.

The penalty system, flawed as it was, was like having a gun to racers' heads and forced clean driving.

I don't know if they ever said anything, or not. It was basically done with one of the updates.

 

[Mc_Yavel]

Did my three last race of the week this morning before work.

First one started 2nd and finish 3th to IOFRacing17 who overtook me before the end of the fisrt lap and win it! I thought it was a boring race, no cars around to fight.

I should have kept that tought to myself

Second race, started 5th. I miss a braking point in a fight and send the guy off at Les Combes. Later I spun the car at the chicane. Finish 9th.

Third race, start 7th. Everything is going well IOFRacing17 and another A+ driver overtook me before mid-race. But IOFRacing17 is having a hard time with a fellow countryman so I can keep in touch with them for a couple of laps. IOF eventually clear the guy and on the start finish line, it's my turn. I get alongside him on the outside (had no choice), coming into the braking zone for turn1, he gently bump me on the grass, I manage to get back on tarmac but i'm going to overshoot T1, he then manage to clip the back of my car and spin me around. Still finish 7th but was fighting 4th. The dirty driver started 11th and barged his way throught to 4th. Blue S.

Not how I wanted to finish the week at SPA but overall it was good. I really like the challenge and gain 4 000 DR. This guy was the worst I saw this week.

 

[Ashthebash]

Well I was going to do a couple more Race Cs from the back but logging on a couple of minutes past the hour I didn't fancy constantly restarting so as not to set a time (though I could have done some lobby practice), so did put in a qualy time. Kind of wish I hadn't! All four races I started on pole and three were simple 'lights to flag' runs, the one that wasn't was far and away the most enjoyable race of the lot.

Off the start P3 missed his braking point by a mile into T1 (I checked the replay and do think he was trying to give me the spot back but he took out the original front row of the grid!), then I got collected at the top of the hill by an out of control Aston and was 15th going into Les Combes. Me and the Brazilian that had started 2nd and also been badly affected early on then worked our way back up through the field, were 1st and 2nd out of La Source on the final lap and while I got really close through Rivage the pass wasn't on, later in the lap I ran deep into Les Fagnes and he kept it tidy so I couldn't pip him for the win. Great fun though

Seriously, how good do you want the battle for the lead going into the final lap?!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's pretty messy this evening at Spa. Nothing like the blissful clean racing last Sunday evening at the Nord. Too many non qualifiers is the problem I think. Maybe it's time to split the races into different rooms.

For example:

I stopped qualifying because I was tired of getting punted in T1, then stuck with it as a form of protest against the bad penalties and DR discrimination. Nowadays it's more to stay away from the dirty tactics in A/S.

However it has become a popular phenomenon and as expected that race up there quickly turned into a mess lap 1. I don't mind hanging back lap 1, but that's not possible here. I still get punted or rammed off lap 1 It's like two races going on, so why not split it into two actual races.

Most of the incidents come from people not owning their mistakes, always trying to close a door that can't be closed anymore. Cars can't magically brake faster when you throw your car in the way. Bad track re-entries, trying to exit the corner on the inside to cut off or push off an overtaking car. Blindly turn in with a car beside.

Anyway, the one thing that mattered this week at Spa was whether you start on the left (bad) or right (good). The difference between coming out of T1 as high as 6th or as low as last... (from the back). 5 wide through T1, outside always loses.


It's getting better as the night goes on. The crash kiddies have gone to bed, fun times ahead. Well one more, I need to sleep too :/


My last race on Spa was bittersweet. An A/S driver starting last started braking far too late for T1 and plowed through the field (He's been starting last a bunch of races, he should know better). I had enough of the T1 pile ups, and was gaining on him on the straight. (after he had rammed me off in T1) Of course he was blocking the inside, so I shoved him into the grass on the right when alongside. He pushed back of course, we both crash, he got out of it better and I'm back to last. I make my way back to him and try again. I get passed him this time at the final chicane and tell him off with a brake check so I can survive through T1.

It seemed he got the message. However he waited for the Karroussel to dive bomb me. I saw it coming and steered left to avoid him. He still clipped me, but as he was recovering back to the track I T-boned his car and didn't see him again. I think I finished 9th or so after all that, blue S, didn't touch anyone else in the race (apart from the T1 pile up thanks to the diver). He left with a red S. It cost about 400 DR, but I have a problem with people that make non qualifiers look bad.

 

[Ashthebash]

Some opinions on what's dirty or not. I got called out by these two drivers for my dirty driving.

At the start of the video a skirmish at the final chicane. 'S' was slowing down the field for a while, in lap 4 I come alongside him in the braking zone but back off, he's ahead into and in the chicane, simple.

Next at 1 minute, lap 5, I get ahead in the braking zone, still halfway alongside in the chicane where he bumps me, slowing me a bit. I don't back off and claim the apex. Bullish I admit, but I'm not sure what the etiquette is in chicanes, there's always the leave room rule. Not try to squeeze people off, he had plenty room to make a wider turn and have the inside in the next turn.
Of course then he dive bombs me in T1 and self destructs. Lost me 2 positions but at least no longer holding up the race...

Second incident at 1:55 in the video. 'r' starts to brake too early, I start braking a bit before the 150 marker since I'm in the slipstream. It becomes obvious I'm going to hit him if I don't move, so move to the inside to avoid. Pass him in the braking zone, dead even when he starts to turn in, beat him to the apex and would have easily made the corner without his nose tapping my back. But he calls it a dive bomb... (same video, time stamped at the 2nd incident)

Thoughts? First one, I admit, not clean, but what can you do with a driver that keeps blocking and cutting off while traffic bunches up behind you. It's never going to end well. At some point you have to go for it or get hit from behind. Second one, imo, not a dive bomb by any rule I'm aware off.

First one, just seems like he's determined to take the apex of the left hander and force you out of it, but unlike the previous lap you were more than enough alongside at that point to deserve a bit of room so yeah, that's not dirty, bit untidy maybe but not dirty. His retaliation is ridiculous, and his attempted swipe that he took himself out with was hilarious!

The second one, not dirty at all. Opportunistic? Yep. Late? Definitely. Dirty? No chance. He's clearly got on the brakes early which has taken you a bit by surprise and the evasive action turned into an overtake. I'm not sure what else you could have done, you weren't into the corner too hot to suggest you should have bailed left. Maybe he'd have preferred you to use the 'push to pass' technique?!

 

[FractalSalt]

Based on all available evidence, I am forced to conclude that Intermediate Tyres are a prank of some sort.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Any idea to what Gr.X car will be chosen for Race C?

Never mind it's the RedBull 2019 competition...
A 3,000,000 car I didn't have.... but buying one...

 

[afc5150]

Capped off a great week at Spa with my 84th victory (from my 77th pole) in the second-to-last slot of the week!

Ran a total of 11 races on my main using the NSX. My Q-time of 2:45:7xx usually had me starting in the top 4, and most races in the A/S lobbies seemed pretty fair.

Along with the victory, I had 3-2nds, 3-3rds, a 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th. So nothing outside the top-10.

Also managed a CRB streak of 10, which ties my best. Gained 7,000 DR this week, up to an all time high of 45.1K DR.

It's been a fun few weeks on GTS dailies with Dragon Trail Seaside, Nurb and Spa in the rain.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

ut if you bang your way through the field, knocking people out of the way, punting them off, and raise your position considerably, you get more DR

No, only finish position counts.

Gr X car for this week is the Red Bull X2019 Competition.
That's about the only Gr X car I don't like.
Taking yet another week off then

 

[05XR8]

No, only finish position counts.

Gr X car for this week is the Red Bull X2019 Competition.
That's about the only Gr X car I don't like.
Taking yet another week off then

Take six weeks off. It’ll do your brain good.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Take six weeks off. It’ll do your brain good.

My relations too....

 

[MidnightRun85]

Three races in B last night to finish off the week.

First was in the WRX, started 14th, finished 14th - really uneventful race just chasing a Megane Trophy the whole way around, but a tight finish in the end.

Second race in the Megane, including taking half a second off my Q time, started 7th. Had a tussle with an RCZ who was basically just ramming everyone and using them as walls at the hairpin and chicane - he did that to me twice in one lap and knocked me nearly off the track at the left hander in the chicane but I had the inside line for the right hander so I returned his behaviour to him and he dropped back like he deserved, ending 12th. I had some great battles with an Evo and a Scirocco, having a really tight finish between three cars 0.2s. Took 7th in the end but a really fun a "clean race" bonus even after purposely ramming the RCZ in the corner.

Third race I jumped into the Genesis - Q time I couldn't get below 1:48 but I had a go anyway. Started 8th and was up to 4th by lap 6! Until I stuffed up the fast left leading the to chicane and dropped back to 9th! Ended the race in 7th after regaining a couple of places. Another fun and otherwise clean race.

I know people didn't like this one but I enjoyed it! I didn't have a go at Spa because I'm too slow in the rain...

 

[ASH32]

@Sven Jurgens You did nothing wrong, as you know. The first should have just left space, looks like one of the usual unaware drivers that you come across, ones who always get involved in needless incidents/accidents because they either don't know or don't care that there is/are a car/s alongside them. The second was pretty normal too, happens sometimes when the car in front is slower than you expected, you made the corner though and didn't force them off so no issue.

If you were a dirty driver you'd have shoved me off/wide in the last race I was in with you, it wouldn't have been difficult to do. I was fully expecting to be pushed wide and was shocked it didn't happen, I didn't notice that it was you behind me until after the corner. 👍

 

[NekoPufferPPP]

First attempt at race C, disconnected before connecting on pole position. GG

 

[MidnightRun85]

I've just seen it's the Red Bull Pro car for this week's race. Looks like I better finish off that Volvo livery I was working for mine for some lols.

 

[JustMac]

I'm starting to find the complete absence of penalties is really frustrating when it comes to the dailies, as it really does turn the bid for first place into a RNG thanks to the first few corners.

Most players (even the fast ones) have no concept of taking any line beyond the standard racing line, and seemingly don't use the radar.... so even the ones who aren't intending to create collisions are doing so because they're basically 'on rails' coming into corners.

I think even if you hated the penalty system, you cannot deny it did have a Pavlov's dog effect on racecraft, where players were forced to think about other racers because contact (and the penalty incurred) would screw up your race, and so had to create new lines etc. I notice now that everyone has tunnel vision and collisions are inevitable, outside of 1 v 1s.

 

[NekoPufferPPP]

I'm starting to find the complete absence of penalties is really frustrating when it comes to the dailies, as it really does turn the bid for first place into a RNG thanks to the first few corners.

Most players (even the fast ones) have no concept of taking any line beyond the standard racing line, and seemingly don't use the radar.... so even the ones who aren't intending to create collisions are doing so because they're basically 'on rails' coming into corners.

I think even if you hated the penalty system, you cannot deny it did have a Pavlov's dog effect on racecraft, where players were forced to think about other racers because contact (and the penalty incurred) would screw up your race, and so had to create new lines etc. I notice now that everyone has tunnel vision and collisions are inevitable, outside of 1 v 1s.

Yeah, it's turned into a lottery what position you end up in, and my luck is terrible. Fair racing is rare in dailies, but thankfully much more common in FIA races.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

These complaints about other players are common in other games as well. It's always everyone else but you who's the idiot. And you're always the one with bad luck.
Show respect and you'll in most cases get it back. Involve ego and revenge and you're ****ed.

However, some combinations simply require a lot of skill to do cleanly. Last week as well as this week are good examples. Unless you're in high A or A+, people might simply lack skill to drive cleanly despite trying to - those collisions are called accidents.

Do your best, don't get mad no matter what, and have fun. When it's not fun anymore, do something else for a while.

 

[kjeldsen]

Double Post

 

[NekoPufferPPP]

These complaints about other players are common in other games as well. It's always everyone else but you who's the idiot. And you're always the one with bad luck.
Show respect and you'll in most cases get it back. Involve ego and revenge and you're ****ed.

However, some combinations simply require a lot of skill to do cleanly. Last week as well as this week are good examples. Unless you're in high A or A+, people might simply lack skill to drive cleanly despite trying to - those collisions are called accidents.

Do your best, don't get mad no matter what, and have fun. When it's not fun anymore, do something else for a while.

In what world does getting forced off the track mean I'm the idiot?

Revenge is a byproduct of a non-functional penalty system. There would be no need for it otherwise, the game would take care of it.

Accidents do happen all the time, but when someone is very clearly being a massive rooster on purpose, they're going in the wall. It's fair race or no race.

One example from a couple weeks back - guy was holding everyone back, knocking them off as soon as they got beside him. If that doesn't deserve revenge I dunno what does. Punt him off and you've given everyone else a fair race.

 

[Famine]

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

GT Sport Daily Races: Winged Wonders​

A new week brings another new set of Gran Turismo Sport Daily Races, with wings being the theme for the next seven days. All three races feature downforce in one form or another and to varying degrees of importance...

 

[dents27]

Ooh this week's races are going to be fun. I love race A and love the circuit for race C. Gonna be a fun week!

 

[sturk0167]

@smcqueen46 The race C car costs 3,000,000. Save your money.
It's a very difficult car to drive. But, if you like a really big challenge, go for it.
I don't think I want to enter that race. My SR rating would go to 0.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

First one, just seems like he's determined to take the apex of the left hander and force you out of it, but unlike the previous lap you were more than enough alongside at that point to deserve a bit of room so yeah, that's not dirty, bit untidy maybe but not dirty. His retaliation is ridiculous, and his attempted swipe that he took himself out with was hilarious!

The second one, not dirty at all. Opportunistic? Yep. Late? Definitely. Dirty? No chance. He's clearly got on the brakes early which has taken you a bit by surprise and the evasive action turned into an overtake. I'm not sure what else you could have done, you weren't into the corner too hot to suggest you should have bailed left. Maybe he'd have preferred you to use the 'push to pass' technique?!

That's the thing with going 2 wide into a chicane. The inside driver for the first kink usually expects to have both apexes and goes from the first apex directly to the second apex, not leaving any room. Sometimes it works, getting enough clearance to claim the second apex as well, often it doesn't and stuff like that happens.

And indeed, that's my reasoning as well in case 2. Would you have rather had me bump you. I did bail left in an earlier race for the final chicane and got stuck in the mouse trap again for 15 seconds. I didn't want to take the inside and hit him, and this driver wasn't moving an inch from the side, so on I went. But that was me braking a split second too late.

All little incidents aside, it was a great week in the rain. I was up to 45K DR last night. There was some dirt in A/S but at the end of the week all the suspects were clear, 4 or 5 per race to be extra mindful of. Most just want to race clean and I there hasn't been a single piece of the track where side by side and contact free passes weren't possible. Even through Raidillon side by side without incidents. Lap 1 T1 however only got worse and worse during the week


Red Bull on Sarthe This is going to be more messy than Spa was. At Spa you had plenty time to see it coming, tip toeing around the track. I guess on Sarthe at least the field should spread out quickly, yet a punt, dirty or accidental, will happen before you can spot it. Hopefully I'm wrong, will find out soonish