"Daily" Race Discussion

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Just saw an article stating DR and SR are carrying over to GT7 - and here I was thinking I could care a little less about the DR loss in recent weeks and start afresh in GT7 with everyone else! Daily race carnage gets to carry it's legacy over! Hopefully they improve it so we can carry on enjoying daily races without coming here to complain about the rammers and punters who wreck our races and tank our DR/SR ratings!
I'm actually really bothered by the idea of having GT Sport ratings carry over into GT7. It kind of makes it seem like it's not really a new game, but rather just a GT Sport update. :irked:
It's also not a nice thing to put players at a disadvantage who will be new to the GT franchise.
If there is an option to not use my GTS ratings, I will surely take it. I want a fresh start to work my way through a new game.

Not good news, in my opinion. Hate it. 👎
 
Video



Not quite 4 wheels on grass, but near enough.

This kind of crap was constant at interlagos last week. Ended up having to go deeper and deeper on the inside to defend lines that they had no right going for. And they still went four wheels off the track pretty much to bomb you.
 
I'm actually really bothered by the idea of having GT Sport ratings carry over into GT7. It kind of makes it seem like it's not really a new game, but rather just a GT Sport update. :irked:
It's also not a nice thing to put players at a disadvantage who will be new to the GT franchise.
If there is an option to not use my GTS ratings, I will surely take it. I want a fresh start to work my way through a new game.

Not good news, in my opinion. Hate it. 👎
I'm with you on that. I was expecting a restart. Hoping for a restart, tbh.
 
Just saw an article stating DR and SR are carrying over to GT7 - and here I was thinking I could care a little less about the DR loss in recent weeks and start afresh in GT7 with everyone else! Daily race carnage gets to carry it's legacy over! Hopefully they improve it so we can carry on enjoying daily races without coming here to complain about the rammers and punters who wreck our races and tank our DR/SR ratings!
Noooooooooo :banghead:

There goes my hope for an overhauled system. Carry the absolutely broken SR and DR system over :banghead:

It's so simple to fix matchmaking:

Base SR on demerit points over time driven:
  • minor demerit points for going off track / hitting walls / spinning out
  • couple demerit points for contact with other cars
  • major demerit points for hard contact with another car
Record all those with timestamps for the last x hours of racing time.
Sort everyone on demerit points per hour racing => safety rating

Ignore DR for matchmaking, useless for it, just leave it as an e-peen measure.

Determine race pace for each driver per track combo (track + car)
  • Once you're doing a combo, it's easy. Take the average of your best X lap times to determine your race pace.
  • If you practiced / qualified before, the same thing, but use a qualifier to convert your qualifying pace to starting race pace estimate. This can be refined over time and fine tuned per person once the system gathers more data.
  • If you don't qualify, estimate your race pace based on previous performance on that track. Adjust for different class / tires to get a starting estimate.
  • If you don't qualify and it's your first time on the track, start at race pace 0. You're a beginner at that track, should really not be allowed to enter an online race on a track without any prior experience!

Now create rooms based on safety rating first, then race pace. Since both are continuous scales (or rather just a sorted list of drivers) you can standardize the divisions.

Say you want to stick to E/D/C/B/A/S denominations, 6 safety classes. Thus take all entries sorted on safety rating and divide them in 6 groups. The actual values at the cut off points don't really matter, and you can shift some up and down to get an even division for full rooms.

Then sort each of these groups on race pace. Create rooms, sort the rooms on qualifying times, non qualifiers at the back sorted on race pace.

So now the top split has the highest safety rating and the highest pace all grouped together.
Bottom split has the lowest safety rating and slowest pace grouped together.
Yet the highest safety rating group will also have a slowest pace room grouped together.
And the lowest safety rating group will have a highest pace room grouped together.

You can't be a dirty driver anymore, hiding in among the slower paced drivers for easy / dirty victories. You'll be competing against other fast dirty drivers. The clean slower paced drivers don't have to deal with much faster DR resets / new accounts going pole to flag or bulldozing through the field from behind. And if your DR is high, going on a new track or a track you're not that god at will place you appropriately instead of racing against much more experienced drivers on that track. And vice versa, experienced drivers don't have to deal with people showing up that don't know the track yet.

DR can still do its thing after the race, just don't use it for matching.

The current system can't work. SR is a useless yoyo system while DR resets deliver the finishing blow to matchmaking. The news of it carrying over to GT7 is really really bad news.
 
So sounds like it will be the same system essentially but hoping to fix it via better "at fault" detection? One suggestion to organically correct things would be to incur damage and/or have longer races. Race A and B always feel one or two laps too short and people push too hard.
 
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I'm actually really bothered by the idea of having GT Sport ratings carry over into GT7. It kind of makes it seem like it's not really a new game, but rather just a GT Sport update. :irked:
It's also not a nice thing to put players at a disadvantage who will be new to the GT franchise.
If there is an option to not use my GTS ratings, I will surely take it. I want a fresh start to work my way through a new game.

Not good news, in my opinion. Hate it. 👎
Just force a DR reset on Valentine's day. Wreckfest day. Make sure you're D/E when PD takes your ratings over on the 15th :cheers:
 
So sounds like it will be the same system essentially but hoping to fix it via better "at fault" detection? One suggestion to organically correct things would be to incur damage and/or have longer races. Race A and B always feel one or two laps too short and people push too hard.
Through all the different iterations of the penalty system, there was one that they almost got right.
At one point they had it set up where the car on the outside of a collision was the one at fault. :confused:
Example:

That was great for divebombers. Dive, take the position, give the other person a penalty.
All they had to do was switch the penalty to the inside car, and things would have been okay.
I have no damn clue why they never figured it out. :dunce:
 
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Damage is the only solution I can see. Race just now someone lined me up for a punt and ended my race. Yes, you’d have some unlucky victims of damage but compared to the situation now where it’s getting rammed, bombed and punted by half the field I’d take it. Four people quit last race, don’t blame them. just getting silly.
 
The 2 second penalties are back :lol:

Didn't get the entry quite right, had to slow a bit extra to make the corner, stepped an inch over the outside line, 2 sec penalty. Yet T-Bone a car to make the corner 👍 PD really needs to get their priorities sorted out.
Damage is the only solution I can see. Race just now someone lined me up for a punt and ended my race. Yes, you’d have some unlucky victims of damage but compared to the situation now where it’s getting rammed, bombed and punted by half the field I’d take it. Four people quit last race, don’t blame them. just getting silly.
Most of the time it's side swipes or getting pushed off the track to let you crash into a wall. Straight up punts are relatively rare, while all the other dirty stuff will always have the victim come out worse with damage. Plus dirty drivers will quickly adapt to any new "not shared fault" system to use it in their favor. Push people into the pit wall, gentle nudge to pit manoever, gentle nudge off the side of the road just before a braking zone. All deadly for the victim, no damage for the dirty driver.

A shared or no fault system, measuring incidents over time, is the only thing that works. But also bring penalties back for straight up punts. Those are very easy to figure out. Too fast in braking zone -> contact -> penalty. It is really not that hard.
 
Through all the different iterations of the penalty system, there was one that they almost got right.
At one point they had it set up where the car on the outside of a collision was the one at fault. :confused:
Example:

That was great for divebombers. Dive, take the position, give the other person a penalty.
All they had to do was switch the penalty to the inside car, and things would have been okay.
I have no damn clue why they never figured it out. :dunce:

There were periods the system kind of worked. Then people exploited it and it had to be changed again.

At one point there was 3 strikes you're out system for contact and cars would disappear off the grid if they were intentionally hitting others.

New game will probably mix it up like the early days of GTS. Wasn't perfect but better than this last patch where they haven't touched it for a while.
 
Noooooooooo :banghead:

There goes my hope for an overhauled system. Carry the absolutely broken SR and DR system over :banghead:

It's so simple to fix matchmaking:

Base SR on demerit points over time driven:
  • minor demerit points for going off track / hitting walls / spinning out
  • couple demerit points for contact with other cars
  • major demerit points for hard contact with another car
Record all those with timestamps for the last x hours of racing time.
Sort everyone on demerit points per hour racing => safety rating

Ignore DR for matchmaking, useless for it, just leave it as an e-peen measure.

Determine race pace for each driver per track combo (track + car)
  • Once you're doing a combo, it's easy. Take the average of your best X lap times to determine your race pace.
  • If you practiced / qualified before, the same thing, but use a qualifier to convert your qualifying pace to starting race pace estimate. This can be refined over time and fine tuned per person once the system gathers more data.
  • If you don't qualify, estimate your race pace based on previous performance on that track. Adjust for different class / tires to get a starting estimate.
  • If you don't qualify and it's your first time on the track, start at race pace 0. You're a beginner at that track, should really not be allowed to enter an online race on a track without any prior experience!

Now create rooms based on safety rating first, then race pace. Since both are continuous scales (or rather just a sorted list of drivers) you can standardize the divisions.

Say you want to stick to E/D/C/B/A/S denominations, 6 safety classes. Thus take all entries sorted on safety rating and divide them in 6 groups. The actual values at the cut off points don't really matter, and you can shift some up and down to get an even division for full rooms.

Then sort each of these groups on race pace. Create rooms, sort the rooms on qualifying times, non qualifiers at the back sorted on race pace.

So now the top split has the highest safety rating and the highest pace all grouped together.
Bottom split has the lowest safety rating and slowest pace grouped together.
Yet the highest safety rating group will also have a slowest pace room grouped together.
And the lowest safety rating group will have a highest pace room grouped together.

You can't be a dirty driver anymore, hiding in among the slower paced drivers for easy / dirty victories. You'll be competing against other fast dirty drivers. The clean slower paced drivers don't have to deal with much faster DR resets / new accounts going pole to flag or bulldozing through the field from behind. And if your DR is high, going on a new track or a track you're not that god at will place you appropriately instead of racing against much more experienced drivers on that track. And vice versa, experienced drivers don't have to deal with people showing up that don't know the track yet.

DR can still do its thing after the race, just don't use it for matching.

The current system can't work. SR is a useless yoyo system while DR resets deliver the finishing blow to matchmaking. The news of it carrying over to GT7 is really really bad news.
How about also addressing ghost cars?
Let them remain ghosted until they are at least close to normal racing speed.

This car unghosted way too soon, which made me crash. Then my car unghosted too soon, causing someone to crash into me.


Peanalty for hitting a car that suddenly appears in front of me. :indiff:


So either leave them ghosted longer, or don't ghost them at all, so we can try to swerve around them.
 
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What on earth happened in the matchmaking here?
BDD08C80-E1CF-40B9-BE09-2C42AB373262.jpeg
 
Typical when A and A+ have races where they lose SR from say 99 down to 85 area, they get matched with lots of D/S and get free wins. A fundamental issue with the current matchmaking system.
I was off the back off a clean race but race before I hit a car that unghosted in front of me and that probably hit my SR. So the theory makes sense. I’m currently going up and down between a lobby where I start 10th and one where I start 3rd in the cusp of A and B DR.
 
ooh more details about that weird PD AI

I'm a bit drunk and can't work out what it means but apparently you can drive against superhuman AI that are better than humans and what is the point

i mean it's not hard is it! it's not ****ing hard for a server to work out the best racing line and breaking points i mean that's all we're trying to do but we're fallible! we think, oh i can wait 0.5ms before breaking and maybe i'll be a bit faster before we spin out while the server sits there, impassionedly, not concerned with an Italian driving up its arse crunching every input into its stupid algorithm and doing the right thing but you tell me, you tell me can that server quit a race because its child is crying in the baby monitor? does the server have to split its resources when its wife comes in asking if she should accept the Norton Antivirus warning about unsafe links? does it ****
 
What a change of car for race A, but it should make for good close racing. Slow car fast > fast car slow. I guess I will see the usual suspects at Laguna Seca, BenRod looking at you. Will give it a go on my lunch break.
Just looking at your PSN, I want to send you a friend request. :lol:
 
ooh more details about that weird PD AI

I'm a bit drunk and can't work out what it means but apparently you can drive against superhuman AI that are better than humans and what is the point
You sound drunk. :cheers:
i mean it's not hard is it! it's not *ing hard for a server to work out the best racing line and breaking points i mean that's all we're trying to do but we're fallible! we think, oh i can wait 0.5ms before breaking and maybe i'll be a bit faster before we spin out while the server sits there, impassionedly, not concerned with an Italian driving up its arse crunching every input into its stupid algorithm and doing the right thing but you tell me, you tell me can that server quit a race because its child is crying in the baby monitor? does the server have to split its resources when its wife comes in asking if she should accept the Norton Antivirus warning about unsafe links? does it *

Are you arguing with AI? Don't upset the robot overlords. :lol:
 
Go ahead haha, I was watching a lot of Canada’s Worst Driver back in the day. I’m actually not the worst at least
Definitely not, one of the cleanest ones on the track :cheers:

It's a train wreck again today at race B. We need more worst_drivers to fill up the spots :)
Every race I'm adding one or two drivers to my ever growing block list (collection of dirty drivers). Maybe one day Sony will let you access your blocked list, it must be several thousand psn names long by now :lol:

(PSN used to show you who were blocked in the played together list, updated when the lobby opens. It was a useful tool to quickly get reminded of who to watch out for. Unfortunately it was changed and now you have to compare the list to find out who is filtered out from the played together list. Also makes it impossible to easily take someone off that redeems himself :banghead: )
 
Go ahead haha, I was watching a lot of Canada’s Worst Driver back in the day. I’m actually not the worst at least
It'll likely be tomorrow. I forgot before turning the game off.

I ran 3 races & used the time before the race to qualify. I went banzai in the first race & the guy returned the favor. Second race had @Sven Jurgens in it. I was able to thread the needle amongst 4 cars fighting, including the guy I bumped in the first race. It was sweet until I went in too hot at the downhill left, where I looped it. Third race, I improved my QT to a 1:20.8xx. Started 3rd. I caught 2nd right at the turn 1 chicane. I backed off, he backed off more. I went into the grass & dropped to 4th. Waited 2 laps for 3rd place went off at the downhill left. That's where I finished. I think I still lost DR overall.
 
Pretty sure it won't make any difference in real life either. The electric motor is only used at low speeds and low revs. On the track, it's always going to use the ICE motor because you're pretty much always flooring it. It is either or, you don't get combined power from both motors (at least that's how it is in my Prius, and I'm pretty sure it'll be the same for Honda, though I've only test driven a Hybrid Fit, not owned one).

Perhaps I'm lucky, but it's mostly been clean racing this week for me. Had a few fools in Race A, but the cars are so slow it's difficult to spin off. I haven't tried Race C yet though, gonna give that a blast tonight. Any tips for pit strat? How much fuel do you start with?
Hi,

I have done a little bit of testing on this (Utterly unscientific too!)....

My best lap was completed after 8 or 9 laps - fully depleted battery - I managed a 1:53:3xx. I cannot see any difference in my top speed approaching the Corkscrew corner. Battery charged or not its 80MPH. There is, I suppose, an element of "Getting your eye in" with practice laps. I am pretty sure that the battery is not making ANY difference to a good lap!

Best regards to all here.

Ian.
 
Crept up ever so slightly into a full DR A room (was in mixed with B) and what I thought was a pretty good qualy time of 1.19.9 (race B) was only good enough for 12th, nearly a second off pole! Nevertheless, had a good clean race with a fellow brit for 8th for 4 laps, just the two of us picking our moments without loosing too much time. This is what it’s all about. Great racing and sportsmanship. It’s a real selling point of the game and GT7 should embrace it and market it.
 
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How about also addressing ghost cars?
Let them remain ghosted until they are at least close to normal racing speed.

This car unghosted way too soon, which made me crash. Then my car unghosted too soon, causing someone to crash into me.


Peanalty for hitting a car that suddenly appears in front of me. :indiff:


So either leave them ghosted longer, or don't ghost them at all, so we can try to swerve around them.

It happens a lot at race B, people screw up T1 or is it T2, then slowly get back up to speed in the long right hander, on the racing line of course.

Ghosting should be plugged into the SR system.

If you need to be ghosted SR Down.
If someone intersects your ghosted car SR Down.
If you drive through a ghost off racing line without other traffic SR Down.

You should always avoid ghosts if possible and should never get back up to speed in the way.

PD also needs to fix the ghosting at chicanes. The final chicane at Sarthe kept ghosting everyone in the Red Bull race.

@NikNakTobasco Yep there are still good clean drivers out there, it just that PD can't separate them from the trouble makers. Another mixed race, rammed off by a Brazilian first, then an incredible 2 lap close race with an Argentinian with 1 bar connection. Side by side through corners without any issues. Close finish, awesome. But another Brazilian on the block list.

Keeping my fingers crossed for an extra SA server for GT7. Split it up, less lag to deal with and other stuff.
 
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It happens a lot at race B, people screw up T1 or is it T2, then slowly get back up to speed in the long right hander, on the racing line of course.

Ghosting should be plugged into the SR system.

If you need to be ghosted SR Down.
If someone intersects your ghosted car SR Down.
If you drive through a ghost off racing line without other traffic SR Down.

You should always avoid ghosts if possible and should never get back up to speed in the way.

PD also needs to fix the ghosting at chicanes. The final chicane at Sarthe kept ghosting everyone in the Red Bull race.

@NikNakTobasco Yep there are still good clean drivers out there, it just that PD can't separate them from the trouble makers. Another mixed race, rammed off by a Brazilian first, then an incredible 2 lap close race with an Argentinian with 1 bar connection. Side by side through corners without any issues. Close finish, awesome. But another Brazilian on the block list.

Keeping my fingers crossed for an extra SA server for GT7. Split it up, less lag to deal with and other stuff.
We have the same problem with South African drivers in Europe servers. Usually 1 dot connections glitching all over the track.
 
I just had 3 great daily B races, mostly because I didn't risk much and made no mistakes. I drove the M6,Mustang and GT-R. Moved 4,5 and 7 positions forward. I like Sardegna in both directions.
Anyway, what stunned me was the incident in the first race. A RCZ passed me on the inside of the tight downhill left. As aspect, s/he came in too fast, and I involuntarily helped this person to make the corner. than the RcZ started to attack the Porsche, who was right in front of me, before the incident. RCZ pushed him a bit, which triggered the Porsche driver, who went full berserk on the RCZ. As the RCZ flew off, shortly before those yellow markers for serving penalties, the Porsche suddenly had 2 second penalty above his car. I was so confused for half a second, but realised, this can only be, because s/he gave the dirty RCZ driver some of his own medicine. And in the next to races I saw 3!! other drivers getting those 2 seconds. Which shows how dirty the races were and that a lot of normal drivers are fed up with the dirty drivers and use self justice, which is promptly honoured with 2.0 seconds. from those 4 incidents I saw, 3 were just counter attacks.

But what really astounds me, is the amount of racers posting here, who are racing race C. I did one race there and after lap 2 I was so bored. The track disgusts me so much, it is, despite it's many courners, absolutely lifeless to me.

Thanks to all who commented in the last 3 weeks, I enjoyed reading it and watching your videos.
 

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