DA's Super GT Series|PURE Spec 1.0|Last Round 4/14

[awr117]

Its going to be a crazy fun race 👍

 

[DA6righthand]

Its going to be a crazy fun race 👍

Agreed. I'll be practicing friday night so if you guys wanna plan to meet around 9 EST we can do some practice runs again. I still need to refine my brake points. The last section of turns before the main straight is where I need to work on how I brake. It'd help me a ton if I could apply 50%ish brake on the last left hander.

Also, I'll get that points sheet up today for everyone. Sorry for the procrastination...it gets the best of me sometimes.

 

[awr117]

It'd help me a ton if I could apply 50%ish brake on the last left hander.

Think i apply about 10% of braking in that area. Just enough to kick the back end out which helps me get the car in the right position for the turn.

I'm struggling with acceleration speed out of turns in lower gears. I noticed the NSX's and GTR's have been putting a small gap on me in those areas. Not sure if that is something i can correct with the transmission or LSD.

ZCrazy, last night you mentioned raising the rear ride height for better turn in. Does that apply to all cars? Thanks in advance.

 

[Scorpion0001]

Think i apply about 10% of braking in that area. Just enough to kick the back end out which helps me get the car in the right position for the turn.

I'm struggling with acceleration speed out of turns in lower gears. I noticed the NSX's and GTR's have been putting a small gap on me in those areas. Not sure if that is something i can correct with the transmission or LSD.

ZCrazy, last night you mentioned raising the rear ride height for better turn in. Does that apply to all cars? Thanks in advance.

umm I am going to say no it doesn't, in fact the GTR 'miracle' I experienced last night, thanks to Sindlar, was that lowering the ride height in the GTR improved the handling ten-fold in my car!

I am pretty sure the lowering of the front suspension and/or raising of the rear suspension is just for the NSX's alone...

 

[DA6righthand]

I am pretty sure the lowering of the front suspension and/or raising of the rear suspension is just for the NSX's alone...

As far as I know, that is correct

 

[kolden76]

koleen have to use sankolsan as psn in your races. he is driving 24 h race on his other psn
kolden73. we will not drop out. hope everything is ok.

 

[OwensRacing]

Getting pulled out of turns is usually a sign you are entering the turn to fast. Others are entering slower and getting on the gas earlier. Hence they pull away.

 

[DA6righthand]

Getting pulled out of turns is usually a sign you are entering the turn to fast. Others are entering slower and getting on the gas earlier. Hence they pull away.

That's what I do! Slow in fast out.

 

[Z Crazy]

I'm struggling with acceleration speed out of turns in lower gears. I noticed the NSX's and GTR's have been putting a small gap on me in those areas. Not sure if that is something i can correct with the transmission or LSD

What diff settings are you running? There are two schools of thought to consider here. DA and Owens touched on the most likely reason, but it all depends on your style. I'm more parital to a really late apex so I can get on the throttle earlier, hence get a way a couple of feet. I also like to run an aggressive diff setting on Lexuses and GTR's to help rotate the rear on throttle (again helping to get on the throttle early).

ZCrazy, last night you mentioned raising the rear ride height for better turn in. Does that apply to all cars? Thanks in advance.

Actually, its the other way around, raising the rear reletive to the front will give you a more stable car. Lowering the rear reletive to the front will give you a less stable car at turn in and mid corner, and that helps with turn in. It applies to all cars that I've tuned but some respond more than others. The important thing to remember is the larger the gap between front and rear the more pronounced the feel will be.

 

[DA6righthand]

I typically always run an open diff. Mine is 6/10/7 right now. If I notice the inside tire spinning or one wheel spinning when it shouldn't, I start notching up the accel settings

 

[Denilson]

What diff settings are you running? There are two schools of thought to consider here. DA and Owens touched on the most likely reason, but it all depends on your style. I'm more parital to a really late apex so I can get on the throttle earlier, hence get a way a couple of feet. I also like to run an aggressive diff setting on Lexuses and GTR's to help rotate the rear on throttle (again helping to get on the throttle early).



Actually, its the other way around, raising the rear will give you a more stable car. Lowering the rear will give you a less stable car at turn in and mid corner, and that helps with turn in. It applies to all cars that I've tuned but some more than others. The important thing to remember is the larger the gap between front and rear the more pronounced the feel will be.

My experiance is the total oposite.

And for the record, I never use ride hight to help my cars turn-in. I use the LSD, rear toe and brake bias to do that.

Ride hight and spring rate are a much more wide type of setting imo..

But obviously, it all comes down to how we as individuals drive the cars. One driver can separate a lot from the next as far as driving style is concerned.

 

[Koleen]

I wil use the psn Sankolsan, bacause i'm driving 24 hour nurnburgring,I don't know if I finish until the race. Normaly psn name is Kolden73.

 

[Z Crazy]

My experiance is the total oposite.

And for the record, I never use ride hight to help my cars turn-in. I use the LSD, rear toe and brake bias to do that.

Ride hight and spring rate are a much more wide type of setting imo..

But obviously, it all comes down to how we as individuals drive the cars. One driver can separate a lot from the next as far as driving style is concerned.

That's what I thought intially as well, but after someone told me to go out and turn the settings to -10 and +10 and drive, then go to +10 and -10 and drive. See if you still believe the its not true. For me it was so eye opening it changed my outlook on tuning completely. Also because it makes such a huge difference I always tune that first, other wise your tuning to conflicting settings (e.g. your ride height says understeer, but your other settings are telling the car to oversteer.)

 

[Wardez]

We're definitely aware of the reverse ride height setting issue. It's been a known quirk with GT5 in the tuning community for a while. You can change a road car almost completely with ride height alone. But the thing that Denilson is saying is that in race cars, somewhat more emphatically in premium Super GT cars, trying to change the car's character with ride height is less effective, by "wide" he meant to say it's a broad type of setting.

Just using a base setting of having the front a few clicks higher than the rear at any relative height will do just as well as anywhere else in range.

LSD acceleration and toe settings are most important.

So, pretty much, it's hard to go wrong with the ride height with Super GT cars but very easy to go wrong with the LSD or toe settings.

 

[Denilson]

1. We're definitely aware of the reverse ride height setting issue. It's been a known quirk with GT5 in the tuning community for a while. You can change a road car almost completely with ride height alone. But the thing that Denilson is saying is that in race cars, somewhat more emphatically in premium Super GT cars, trying to change the car's character with ride height is less effective, 2. by "wide" he meant to say it's a broad type of setting.

Just using a base setting of having the front a few clicks higher than the rear at any relative height will do just as well as anywhere else in range.

LSD 3. acceleration and toe settings are most important.

4. So, pretty much, it's hard to go wrong with the ride height with Super GT cars but very easy to go wrong with the LSD or toe settings.

1. It's "known" by many. But according to me, it's non existant. *preparing to take cover*

2. Thanks Eddie.. You know my exellent english too well..

3. You meen "deceleration", right? At least as long as we talk "turn-in", as in you are preparing to take the turn, and your car is slowing in, hence the deceleration value are most important initally.. Coming out of the turn, applying enough throttle to accelerate the car, your LSD acceleration comes in to play.

4. Yep. 👍


Z Crazy: "That's what I thought intially as well, but after someone told me to go out and turn the settings to -10 and +10 and drive, then go to +10 and -10 and drive. See if you still believe the its not true."

Thing is, (according to me) that you can't set one setting to extremes and draw conclusions from that. Every setting effect another, so by just putting the RH to "-10" or "+10" will not say anything as long as the rest of the settings are not tuned accordingly.

I.e: Your cars does'nt turn in as you wish, you raise the front (the oposite of what would be logic) to increase the grip.. And you feel that your cars front now turns in nicely = raising the front increases it's grip? Or??
According to me: No (even if it seems like it initally).

In my book, what you have done in this case is to release pressure of the fronts, making the front tires grip better (does'nt fight againts what you want it to do), causing the rear to swing around the better gripping front = car feels easier to turn in / feels more oversteery..

What it all comes down to is to find a setup that's neutral (a setup that does'nt fight.. that feels solid....). From here do the same thing (test rh to -10 and then to +10) and you'll notice that the higher rear makes the car oversteer, and a lower rear makes the car more stable and "understeery" so to speak..
Tuning is very sensitive stuff, and should be delt with with a delicate touch imo.. Like a woman if you will.. Raising the rear to +10 is like dealing with a linebacker.. I know, horrible example..

This is all my own personal opinions ofc. 👍

 

[boshuter]

I have to agree with Denilson, I don't believe in the "ride height bug" either, at least I've never seen it proven.

I used to try the extreme changes to see what affect they had on the car, but quickly realized that wasn't the way to find a good setup. Now I start tuning by making very small changes based on what I've found works. Normally I like to run very stiff setups and use LSD to control understeer/oversteer. I normally run anywhere from -12 to -5 or even 0 for ride height on Super GT cars and have never found it to be critical. I may have the back 2 higher than the front, but most of the time they are the same.

 

[Denilson]

I have to agree with Denilson, I don't believe in the "ride height bug" either, at least I've never seen it proven.

I used to try the extreme changes to see what affect they had on the car, but quickly realized that wasn't the way to find a good setup. Now I start tuning by making very small changes based on what I've found works. Normally I like to run very stiff setups and use LSD to control understeer/oversteer. I normally run anywhere from -12 to -5 or even 0 for ride height on Super GT cars and have never found it to be critical. I may have the back 2 higher than the front, but most of the time they are the same.

I also run pretty similar ride hight settings... But, looking at the tire wear, I decide from there. In the NSX, that wears the rears like crazy, I set the front between 5 - 10 steps below the rear depending on track..

Here's one of my RAYBRIG NSX tunes for reference (Notice the RH difference):

Honda RAYBRIG NSX:
DF: 40 / 65
GR: Depending on track
LSD: 5 / 18 / 5
CAM: 2,2 / 1,8
TOE: -0,06 / -0,07
RH: -10 / 0
SR: 14,8 / 14,8
EXT: 7 / 8
COM: 7 / 8
ARB: 3 / 4
BB: 5 / 4
TIRES: RH

Monza: 1:44.9XX
Monaco: 1:31.7XX (Super lap)

 

[awr117]

My goal is normally slow in fast out. I played around with the LSD a bit and i think its helped. Before the change i was hitting mid to upper 35's and with 34's no where in site. Was able to run a 35.1 after a few minor tweaks. I'll keep playing with it to see if it can get into the 34's.

 

[Z Crazy]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I've been on both sides of this battle and have settled on this side. I understand your points, but I just don't agree.

 

[Wardez]

Well I'd just let Denilson's results speak for him. Three times on the championship podium aceoss three different major worldwide Super GT tournaments and a GT Academy finalist. He really does have a bit of experience. But that doesn't dilute your experience, what I'm really saying is that I think both sides of the debate on "reverse" settings are probably a bit wrong and usually end up meeting somewhere in the middle when it comes to race time.

Nice discussions in here 👍

 

[Denilson]

Eddie: Yea, probably!

And thanks for the kind words mate! 👍

And a good discussion is always welcome Z Crazy. 👍

 

[Z Crazy]

Definately some truth in his methods and aside his RH stance I can see how he likes his cars by looking through his tune. Interestingly, we use a similar RH gap (difference from front to rear), but most everything else has a different "taste".

Honda RAYBRIG NSX:
DF: 40 / 65
GR: Depending on track
LSD: 10/10/25
CAM: 1.5 / 1.0
TOE: -.20 / +15
RH: -1 / +8
SR: 14.5 / 15.5
EXT: 4 / 5
COM: 4 / 4
ARB: 4 / 3
BB: 5 / 5
TIRES: RH

I have one adjustment I think fights the rest of my set up and that is the front toe setting. It helps to get a litte more turn in and takes out a little corner exit which I think the NSX has plenty of. I tried Denilson's setup and it was a little too free for me, but I thought the Diff felt pretty good.

 

[freshseth83]

I just do a basic setup and drive. I don't care if it's the fastest or not. All these trick tunes are cool, but I'd rather have a decent race. I don't even mind being slower, just makes me push. Look forward to Saturday. Wonder if 502hp will be enough to keep up on the long straight of FUJI!

Speaking of which, they had a test scheduled for today at FSW, but it snowed, so 2012's SuperGT's weren't able to take to the track.

 

[Denilson]

Definately some truth in his methods and aside his RH stance I can see how he likes his cars by looking through his tune. Interestingly, we use a similar RH gap (difference from front to rear), but most everything else has a different "taste".

Honda RAYBRIG NSX:
DF: 40 / 65
GR: Depending on track
LSD: 10/10/25
CAM: 1.5 / 1.0
TOE: -.20 / +15
RH: -1 / +8
SR: 14.5 / 15.5
EXT: 4 / 5
COM: 4 / 4
ARB: 4 / 3
BB: 5 / 5
TIRES: RH

I have one adjustment I think fights the rest of my set up and that is the front toe setting. It helps to get a litte more turn in and takes out a little corner exit which I think the NSX has plenty of. I tried Denilson's setup and it was a little too free for me, but I thought the Diff felt pretty good.

I can def see that you like to keep the rear in check. Hi deceleration value, positive rear toe, stiffer rear springs..
But your rear ride hight promotes the oposite..

I love a loose car, you love a stable/tight car.
Apart from that, I'd say our tunes are similar.

 

[awr117]

I just do a basic setup and drive. I don't care if it's the fastest or not. All these trick tunes are cool, but I'd rather have a decent race. I don't even mind being slower, just makes me push. Look forward to Saturday. Wonder if 502hp will be enough to keep up on the long straight of FUJI!

Speaking of which, they had a test scheduled for today at FSW, but it snowed, so 2012's SuperGT's weren't able to take to the track.

Keep in the draft. I have 513 hp and need to catch the draft to keep up on the long straight.

On a side note. Aren't the LFA's replacing the SC 430's this year? I wonder if Polyphony Digital will have them as downloadable content.

 

[DA6righthand]

On a side note. Aren't the LFA's replacing the SC 430's this year? I wonder if Polyphony Digital will have them as downloadable content.

That would be effin sweet but I'm kind of eh on the LFA's. They're ok cars but should be more for as much as they cost.

Edit: I ran outta time last night guys. That points sheet will be up later. It's filled out, just gots to prntscn/paste/upload it. It's a Word document and I'd rather make it a picture.

 

[Z Crazy]

LFA's would be sick in the game, but until I see an HSV I wouldn't hold my breath.

But it does look nice....

3D Render

But honestly, from a design standpoint I think the FT 86/BRZ may be an option as well, definately an GT300 option.

 

[awr117]

I'd drive either. That BRZ looks beast!

From an aero standpoint i would think the LFA would show better results. But i am just basing my opinion off of those photos. I have no experience in a wind tunnel haha.

 

[kolden76]

hi. i hope you can paste the name of my friend on the driver list. hope you dont forget you said he could be the 13 driver. his name is koleen psn sankolsan.

 

[kolden76]

#. GTP I.D./PSN/ Car choice/

1. DA6righthand/DA6righthand/Honda ARTA NSX '06
2. Z Crazy/Z-Crazy/Honda Takata Dome NSX '06
3. UnshavenYapper/UnshavenYapper/Nissan Motile Autech GTR 08
4. Robbie2ffy/Robbie2ffy/Nissan YellowHat YMS Tomica GT-R '08
5. boshuter/boshuter/Lexus Bandai Direzza SC430 '06
6. freshseth83/TF-110B/Nissan Stealth GT500 GTR '08
7. NaSuU/NaSsuU/Honda Raybrig NSX 06
8. awr117/redrobin347/Lexus Petronas Tom's SC430 '08
9. Kakarot/Sinladar/Honda Stealth NSX '08
10. Scorpion0001/ScorpionPHVH Nissan Calsonic Impul '08
11. OwensRacing/OwensRacing/Nissan Xanavi GTR '08
12.kolden76/sersjanten90/Nissan Xanavi Z '06
13. koleen/sankolsan/Honda Epson '08

Reserve drivers:
1. Denilson