DeadNutsEven - Where anyone can win!!

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I'll mark this date on my calender as the turning point in your GT5 career..."Ferrari likes something other than an NSX":cheers:

I felt like I was driving much more aggressively than normal tonight, maybe its just TMR, maybe its just the Maserati... It payed off though, 50% win ratio in the 4 races I did, which is the best I've done in a looooong time, maybe its because NC wasn't here to pressure me! 💡 :lol: Hopefully I didn't anger anybody with my driving, I could tell you were getting fed up with the Maserati's natural ability to hug the inside through every corner. :dopey: :lol:
 
I shouldn't have ran today. Showing up w/o at least two dozen laps in a car, with target time nailed, is endangering this format. Not doing it again.
I did at least 20 laps in the afternoon (spent a little over an hour just driving, only stopping to reduce pp) and thought I had a car that was going to work for me.

Several hours later, I join the room. After a few laps getting warmed up, I do a good lap with only one apparent mistake (in sector 1), but timing shows 44.99x. So I drop a couple pp to be safe. Racing goes by fine, in clear air I was doing 45s, until the last race. Last race I do a couple fast laps and on the very last lap do a 44.3. I can't say how or why, but it is frustrating. It's happened a few times over the last few months. I'm also going to need to spend more time, and over multiple days, practicing in my cars before submitting. It seems my prep level, that seemed to work well for so long, needs to change. If I can't find a way to fix this problem, I will need to leave parity racing. :guilty:
 
DODGE Viper GTS '02
Tuned for Trial Mountain Reverse on Comfort Soft tires, 1:45


8511376233_9b743dc0a6_c_d.jpg


Specs

Horsepower: 241 hp at 5300 RPM
Torque: 433 ft-lb at 2900 RPM
Power/Weight Ratio : 6.63 kg/HP
Displacement : 7,997 cc
Drivetrain layout : FR
Power Limiter at : 55.4 %
Weight: 1625 kg
Ballast : 56 kg
Ballast Position : 1
Weight Distribution : 48/52 - as stock
Performance Points: 435
Top Speed : 117 mph or 188 kmh


GT AUTO
Paint : Silver Chrome by Gran Turismo
Wheels: Stock
Aero :
Front Type A
Rear Type A

Tuning Parts Installed :
Clutch : Twin Plate
Flywheel : Semi Racing
Carbon Drive Shaft
6 Speed Close Ratio Transmission
Suspension Fully Customizable Kit
Adjustable LSD

LSD
Initial Torque : 7
Acceleration Sensitivity: 14
Braking Sensitivity: 18

Suspension :
Front, Rear
Ride Height: 30 25
Spring Rate: 5 5.6
Dampers Extension: 4 4
Dampers Compression : 2 2
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 6
Camber Angle: 0.2 0.5
Toe Angle: 0.05 0.10

Brake Balance :
8/5 or for wheel user : 5/3 - if good at trail braking ( no ABS ), for ABS 1 : 6/4 or your own BB.


Notes :

This Dodge Viper tune is built upon a real life stock Viper suspension setup and wheel alignment. I feel that this tune is better than stock suspension in GT5, trail braking feels natural, you can literally dial the rear rotation when braking and accelerating out of a corner. A prime example is the last blind corner before the last tunnel, nail the entry and enjoy what a true FR sports car can do when exiting a tight turn, not a slide, just hitting the limit of slip angle :cool:.

Shift point is at just below 6000rpm, my PB with this tune is at 1:45.0xx, top speed at the long tunnel is 115mph.

8512490376_ab17eb51b4_c_d.jpg

 
It seems my prep level, that seemed to work well for so long, needs to change. If I can't find a way to fix this problem, I will need to leave parity racing. :guilty:

I think last night was more a consequence of Trial Mountain than of anybody's prep time/style. I had the same thing happen to me, I did about 30 minutes of testing/practice and was consistently doing mid :45's. However I knew that there were at least two turns I could tidy up and that would probably shave off that surplus half second. But Trial Mountain is a very different creature and it turned out there was at least a half second at each of those turns and I ended up under target by about a half second. I kept adding ballast and removing power throughout our pre-race practice session, most laps I was on target but when I put together a smooth one I was a half second (or more) under target.

Turns 1 and 2 are prime candidates, if you nail it perfectly you carry an enormous amount of speed onto the straight but even a slight bobble costs you dearly. I found the left-hander after the tunnel to be another turn that was quite variable, if you hit it perfectly you carry a head of steam but a slight mis-step could cost you a half second. At Autumn Ring I could be very consistent on every lap, hit every braking point and every turn-in point, running laps within 1-2 tenths of each other. This isn't the case at Trial Mountain, it's a highly variable circuit where minor mistakes cost you dearly.

So basically as the night went on we all continued to improve our driving and nail our marks which resulted in lap times that were faster than we experienced in our practices. Most of my race lap times last night were on target or within a couple tenths (draft laps) but I had a couple that were in the :43's which is too fast even with draft. Thing is, I know one of those :43 laps was bookended by a high :45 and a mid :46. :boggled: But in the race that I won every lap was a :45 or slower. My average lap times were 1:45 but had a variability of +/- .75 seconds, at a different track my variability would be +/- .25 seconds.

Synopsis: Everyone's average lap at Trial Mountain was probably on target but when we'd string together a good one we would gain a half second or more, not just a tenth or two. This is due more to the nature of the circuit than anyone's practice/tuning, there are several corners waiting to add or remove a half second from your lap time.

EDIT: If I need to be disqualified from any of last night's racing I'll take no offense, I tried my best to stay on target but kept finding time on the track. My car had 200kg of ballast on but it only helped so much.
 
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I did at least 20 laps in the afternoon (spent a little over an hour just driving, only stopping to reduce pp) and thought I had a car that was going to work for me.

Several hours later, I join the room. After a few laps getting warmed up, I do a good lap with only one apparent mistake (in sector 1), but timing shows 44.99x. So I drop a couple pp to be safe. Racing goes by fine, in clear air I was doing 45s, until the last race. Last race I do a couple fast laps and on the very last lap do a 44.3. I can't say how or why, but it is frustrating. It's happened a few times over the last few months. I'm also going to need to spend more time, and over multiple days, practicing in my cars before submitting. It seems my prep level, that seemed to work well for so long, needs to change. If I can't find a way to fix this problem, I will need to leave parity racing. :guilty:

Thanks for the honesty Sag but we're all in the same boat with Trial Mountain so don't sweat it. Same thing happened to me and everyone else. It does happen from time to time to all of us at other tracks too. The main thing is to just be honest about it and you've got that covered in spades. Running with other people in practice sessions really helps to sort out the bugs. Forget about it, maybe put in a few more laps at the next track, and move on...👍👍
 
Familiarity with the track does affect consistency tremendously at Trial Mountain Reverse, I spent many laps at this track in GT5 even before last week, then I drove all kinds of cars, tune them to meet target time, then I lower PP by 10 and try to reach target time again. The three tunes I have posted, Scion FR-S, Maserati GranTurismo S and Dodge Viper GTS, I can run them fairly consistently at 1:45s, but then again, I often drove 15 laps non stop in one car :) I tuned at least 15 different cars for TMR.

By the way, I have found my FF little pocket rocket, just over 210HP and 1050kg, sitting at 420PP on SH, the cute Nissan March 12SR with top speed at 110mph. For Laguna Seca, the guide for 1st sector is at high 26s, 2nd sector at mid/high 52s and last sector at around 1:13s, expect to take the last turn at around 1:30s. These are rough times estimation from my several laps run with the car. My PB so far is 1:43.97x. Tuned several FFs already for Seca, surprisingly the best is the March :lol:
 
I've had some PM's about last nights race and a couple of posts in here of course, concerning going under the target time. It's encouraging to know that everyone is concerned about their personal integrity and the integrity of the whole DeadNutsEven way of racing. Of course everything depends on integrity and honesty here, otherwise it doesn't work.

As Brandon and others have mentioned, I believe it's just the nature of the track and we were all in the same boat. Between last night and today just about everyone there has reported being under the target times at some point, me included. I thought I had my car perfectly vetted but I know I ran some mid-44's myself last night. There are just some corners at TM Reverse that if you nail just right they shave a lot of time off.

Let's put it all behind us and move forward with a clean slate. We'll keep Trial Mountain on the back burner for quite a while to be on the safe side, but if we do come back here, it'll be with our eyes wide open, knowing that this type of inconsistency will happen. It's a lesson learned and we won't forget it. Thanks to everyone that PM'd me or posted here about last night. :)
 
:cheers: to everyone for being honest and gentlemanly, this format certainly wouldn't work without the integrity displayed here. Last night was interesting and caught us all off guard but I think we also learned valuable lessons about the game and about ourselves. All that aside, it was still some very good racing and an enjoyable time. There is so much opportunity for disaster at that track and I saw very little if any. So another :cheers: to everyone.
 
In light of what happened last night and of what was posted above, I suggest that if we meet Saturday in a organised event or impromptu, we use next week combo, FF at laguna.
We have all week to get ready to run at the pace.
 
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I experimented with weight distribution on FF cars, as I pointed out earlier, the Alfa 147 GTA with more rear bias weight will have it's PP reduced, putting the weight to stock actually increase PP.

Now I understand why .... I tried the same with Nissan March 12SR, I ran earlier with ballast at position 50, giving more rear weight, this session I run with stock weight distribution 60/40, PP increased by 1 to 421. I added more ballast from 1050kg to 1060kg. Boy, I am in for a surprise, the car felt more tight at the front, but steering and cornering balance somewhat feels better, more traction on standing start launch and corner exits. The only downside is understeer easily creeps out, but with proper driving techniques + suspension + LSD setup, it's better than rear bias weight.

I ran more consistently with 60/40 weight, and managed to pull this lap time :cool:

8533179694_6514a7f9c9_c_d.jpg

1:44.003 ... now I just need to shave that .003 :lol:

Still in da lounge, testing my cute porky March.
 
Nice job Rido:tup:👍


Our new OP banner, from Trial Mountain:

bannertmfinished.jpg
 
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Nice job Rido:tup:👍


Our new OP banner, from Trial Mountain:

Thanks JP, I have several FF ready to meet target time on SH, Minis, Citreon, VW, Nissan, Alfa, will tune some more, anyone interested for a base tune to get a head start, I can share these cars so you can "steal" it :) or send me suggestion or request .. I will be tuning Mitsu Eclipse, Celica old and new, peugeots, more alfa, opel ... who knows :lol:

EDIT : I have posted more tunes :

Dodge Viper GTS '02 435PP

Maserati GranTurismo S '08 at 425PP
 
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Okay, I finished VW Golf GTI '05, Citreon C4 VTS, Fiat 500 8v lounge, Peugeot 307 CC AVN, Toyota Vitz RS, Honda CRZ ... will do Atenza, Civic, Integra ... then to standards. Next time.
 
In light of what happened last night and of what was posted above, I suggest that if we meet Saturday in a organised event or impromptu, we use next week combo, FF at laguna.
We have all week to get ready to run at the pace.

Agreed. Probably best to just move on from TM and get ready for the next one. I know I will need a little extra practice time in the FF's, it's probably been over a year since I've driven one in GT5. :nervous: Looking forward to it though.
 
A short video I recorded with my brother's Blackberry, quality kind of suck, audio is muffled :( but still viewable, a test race I ran at Deadnutseven lounge, FF car at Laguna Seca.

Standing start, sports hard tire, no ABS, 6/4 BB, FF, grip real, 1st lap 1:51.213, 2nd lap 1:44.117. The top speed for the car is at 109/110 mph, depends on how late 1st turn braking is. To those who seldom drive FF car or at Laguna, this video could be a good tool to learn the braking points, corner entry and exit speeds.

To get 1:44s, these are rough sector times : 1st sector mid/high 26s, 2nd sector mid/high 52s, then last sector mid/high 1:13s.



Anybody can guess what car it is and how many PP ? Hint at the track name :)
 
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Yesterday I was testing some standard ffs. Honda integra type r touring car, if race cars are ok, lots of front grip understeers only if i give it to much gas. Trail celica SS-II, very sharp turn in, sometimes make me to confident and understeer from coming in to hot.

good video Orido I'm subbed
 
Yesterday I was testing some standard ffs. Honda integra type r touring car, if race cars are ok, lots of front grip understeers only if i give it to much gas. Trail celica SS-II, very sharp turn in, sometimes make me to confident and understeer from coming in to hot.

good video Orido I'm subbed

The Trial Celica is the best "street" FF in the game in my opinion. More grip than most FR's. Early in the game before the PP system came out, the Trial Celica was almost unbeatable in rooms it could get into. You can use the Touring Car if you want as well, but you might have so much grip that you'll have to give up some top end to get it into the regs. Try using minimum downforce on the rear and only as much as you need on the front to get as much power as possible.
 
Yesterday I was testing some standard ffs. Honda integra type r touring car, if race cars are ok, lots of front grip understeers only if i give it to much gas. Trail celica SS-II, very sharp turn in, sometimes make me to confident and understeer from coming in to hot.

good video Orido I'm subbed

Thanks Flex, you can also try some rarely used FF, like Fiats, Opels, or most standard Japanese FFs ( Toyota Sera, Nissan Bluebird, Honda Accords, etc ) sometimes you could find great car that suits your driving style when least expected.

Just fit them with SH tire and run them stock, if they feel good on braking and corner entry ( not much understeer ), and can be built to at least 430PP, then you can invest a bit more to find if they are comfortable and competitive enough for you. The next step would be reduce weight if it's weight more than 1300kg, add power up to 220HP, aim for 410+PP, run some laps, if the car can get into 1:45s easily, then it's good sign.

My general base tune for FF :

Base PP from 410PP for starter when testing.

Suspension :
I always ran higher rear than front in ride height, usually by 15mm difference.

Spring rate : 2 times more stiffer at the front than rear, the stock rear spring full custom value is a good baseline. Increase the front spring to twice the rear. Example : 10.4/5.2

Damper : run lower compression front than rear, and have the extension at least 2 values higher on both.

ARB : I always use 2 values lower front than rear, example : 2/4, 3/5 or 4/6 - seems to work, but rarely I will need the opposite : 4/2, 5/3 etc.

Camber : run close to 1.0 at the front and double that on the rear, example : R 1.2 F 2.4

Toe : + at the front and neutral or - at the rear, the sweet spot hovers from 5 to 20. Example : F +0.07 R 0.00/-0.07, F +0.12 R -0.12

LSD : run low initial at 5 to 8, run accel from 10 to 15 and braking from 7 to 18.

These are similar to my Mazda's video I posted. Also try not to run too much torque, close to 250 ft lb /ft usually burn the tires easily, balancing HP and torque around 180 to 230 seems to be a good start. When all this is not good enough, time to alter weight distribution using ballast, most FF cars does very well with close to 60/40 distribution. Running more rear bias will make the rear a bit looser when braking hard into a corner, but better on exits too. I ran all the cars I tuned with stock weight distribution, some without weight changes like the Mazda video.

Hope this helps.
 
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romevintage.jpg
We're thinking about running an event with vintage Euro and Japanese cars at sub-400PP. Anyone think this would be a fun event?:scared:
 
We're thinking about running an event with vintage Euro and Japanese cars at sub-400PP. Anyone think this would be a fun event?:scared:

I'd love it. 👍

A few other ideas:
Estates/Wagons
Trucks and/or SUVs and/or Vans
Still like the Brit vs. Italy idea (Jag/Aston Alfa/Maserati) or American vs. German.
 
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Of course it will be FUN, I see you have been curious with Watermelonpunch races :) I raced in her organized events several times prior joining Deadnuts, she was on hiatus for a few months. Great racing with low power cars, mostly stock and comfort tires ( medium ). Niko also a regular driver there. I like the idea of vintage cars.
 
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