DeadNutsEven - Where anyone can win!!

[Johnnypenso]

Of course it will be FUN, I see you have been curious with Watermelonpunch races I raced in her organized events several times prior joining Deadnuts, she was on hiatus for a few months. Great racing with low power cars, mostly stock and comfort tires ( medium ). Niko also a regular driver there. I like the idea of vintage cars.

I've run a few of Punch's events in the past but she seems to be running only during the day this time around and it just doesn't work for me. That reminds me, let me see if I can find it....here it is...

Vintage Car Race Club
80s Nissan 240RS & Ford RS200 Road Cars
2-Speed Traffic Rally @ Wishbone Curve Mt. Aso

That was one of my favourites and I loved that track!!! I've got to get a copy of it from her and put it on the DeadNuts PSN ID, I'm sure we can find some cars to run there. The 240RS and RS200 were around 435PP stock and they were just perfect there!! If you look closely, you'll see the seeds of Parity/DeadNuts Racing there too. Half the entrants in each race were future members!!!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Snip ...
Half the entrants in each race were future members!!!

Like me, I should start joining her races again, I've been too busy tuning

 

[Davis]

I'll be using the Alfa, of course, but I wanted to test out a new Photoshop technique, so here's a different FF at Laguna!

​

I was thinking of making this into a poster-type thing, with words at the top, that's why its all white.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Looks sharp Ferrari, what's the technique?

Turns out I already have Wishbone Curve. I think we should give it a try sometime in the Lounge. If anyone wants to download it, it's now available on my profile.👍 It was a simple but fun track, lots of passing, and more than enough room.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but I used something called "cartooning" in GIMP to make this one:

 

[Davis]

Its something by leislee... I don't know what its called, but it looks great on almost any GT5 photo. Here's the link:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=271237

As to wishbone curve, as its already been proven to be a good track for racing, I don't see any issues with using it other than the lack of run-off that all circuits of its kind have. I could see some little Kei-cars there or something along those lines...

 

[dsgerbc]

Another FF car with decent handling (other than those mentioned) is Citroen Xsara 99 rally car.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Its something by leislee... I don't know what its called, but it looks great on almost any GT5 photo. Here's the link:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=271237

As to wishbone curve, as its already been proven to be a good track for racing, I don't see any issues with using it other than the lack of run-off that all circuits of its kind have. I could see some little Kei-cars there or something along those lines...

Or A kart junior race

Some picture of the FF car from the Laguna Seca video I posted earlier :

I like the Mazda even more than the March now The Mazda weight almost 1.5 times more, feels more planted at Seca, especially that corkscrew, better traction out of corner ( last turn ), and lot more stable braking hard ( 1st turn ).

 

[Cote Dazur]

I wanted to test out a new Photoshop technique, so here's a different FF at Laguna!

​

I was thinking of making this into a poster-type thing, with words at the top, that's why its all white.

The Scirocco, is the one I am driving, bone stock, very well balance, great car to drive. Nice pic Ferrari.👍

 

[BrandonW77]

The Scirocco, is the one I am driving, bone stock, very well balance, great car to drive. Nice pic Ferrari.👍

It's my backup car if the CR-Z TC proves to not produce reliable lap times, but it seemed pretty solid so hopefully I won't have to change. I figured I paid real money for both of those cars, might as well take one out for a race. 💡


While choosing a car for this week's events I started wondering about something. Perhaps the group has already discussed this before I was around, forgive me if it's been covered. I was wondering if it's fair to have race cars and street cars in the same race? Sure, we're tuning them to run the same exact lap times but I'd have to believe that a race car with downforce and "performance" suspension is going to have an advantage in the handling department. So when a race car is door-to-door with a street car I would guess that the race car is going to come out ahead the majority of the time because the street car won't be able to go through that corner as hard and won't be as planted.

In a series where everyone is running the same lap times the only real advantage (outside of driver skill) will be in the handling the department, so a car with aero is likely to have an advantage over a non-aero car. Perhaps it's not enough of an advantage to make a real difference, but I know that as long as race cars and street cars are allowed to mingle I will be searching for a race car as my first choice.

Just thought I'd ask to see if it's ever been discussed.

 

[Naptown25rs]

^^^

From the experiences I remember, I've never noticed any outright advantage of running a race car along side a street car...

I always stick with street cars unless its a racing car specific event, and try to do as little tuning as possible to make the car composed and consistent, most of the time I use nothing more than an adjustable LSD, ballast and engine limiter unless the car has some terrible stock gear ratios. This method hasn't let me down yet, and I don't see any reason to change.

I will admit that I'm not really a fan of intermingling the two simply for the aesthetics and uniformity of the grid... I think every should be on one or the other just from a looks stand point. But that's just me...

 

[Davis]

While choosing a car for this week's events I started wondering about something. Perhaps the group has already discussed this before I was around, forgive me if it's been covered. I was wondering if it's fair to have race cars and street cars in the same race? Sure, we're tuning them to run the same exact lap times but I'd have to believe that a race car with downforce and "performance" suspension is going to have an advantage in the handling department. So when a race car is door-to-door with a street car I would guess that the race car is going to come out ahead the majority of the time because the street car won't be able to go through that corner as hard and won't be as planted.

In a series where everyone is running the same lap times the only real advantage (outside of driver skill) will be in the handling the department, so a car with aero is likely to have an advantage over a non-aero car. Perhaps it's not enough of an advantage to make a real difference, but I know that as long as race cars and street cars are allowed to mingle I will be searching for a race car as my first choice.

A similar topic has been heavily discussed before, the results are actually the opposite of what you might expect. I have an NSX, which thanks to Johnny, is basically a race car. It out-handles every car it races against(much like a race car), but when it comes to actual races, I don't drive it. This is because it gains all of its time in the corners, and loses it all on the straights. I drove it at Suzuka, and it was miserable to pass anyone. I would basically get right on everyone's bumper, and get side to side with them, but they would out accelerate me heading into each corner, so they would pass me again and I would get held up more. And in a car where its advantage is cornering, when you lose the ability to drive in clean air, your race is already lost.

So yes, they do have the aero advantage, but they usually get held up when the other vehicles out-do them on the straights between corners. They can get positions well, but they can't hold off passes. Remember my Evo from rally week, it was handling oriented, and I couldn't pass you to save my life. I would make up ground through the chicanes, but you'd out-do me on the straights. Running door to door, the street car has the advantage of gaining a gap every time acceleration is involved. I can provide some of my replays as proof that handling and aero does not help you in this series. (Cappucino RM @ Deep Forest Reverse, Honda NSX @ Suzuka, Johnny's Elise @ Monaco. All great handling cars that did not translate well to racing.)

 

[BrandonW77]

Probably not any real advantage, at least with lower powered cars, but I thought I'd mention it to see if it's ever been discussed or tested.

I will admit that I'm not really a fan of intermingling the two simply for the aesthetics and uniformity of the grid... I think every should be on one or the other just from a looks stand point. But that's just me...

I feel the same way and that's one of the reasons I brought it up. A grid with race cars and street cars mixed is rather unsightly and doesn't make for good banner artwork. Keeping the two separate could make it easier to come up with themes in the future too, it would narrow the choices and kinda "nudge" people into a certain range of cars.

Seriously though, we need to do a week with estates/wagons.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's my backup car if the CR-Z TC proves to not produce reliable lap times, but it seemed pretty solid so hopefully I won't have to change. I figured I paid real money for both of those cars, might as well take one out for a race. 💡


While choosing a car for this week's events I started wondering about something. Perhaps the group has already discussed this before I was around, forgive me if it's been covered. I was wondering if it's fair to have race cars and street cars in the same race? Sure, we're tuning them to run the same exact lap times but I'd have to believe that a race car with downforce and "performance" suspension is going to have an advantage in the handling department. So when a race car is door-to-door with a street car I would guess that the race car is going to come out ahead the majority of the time because the street car won't be able to go through that corner as hard and won't be as planted.

In a series where everyone is running the same lap times the only real advantage (outside of driver skill) will be in the handling the department, so a car with aero is likely to have an advantage over a non-aero car. Perhaps it's not enough of an advantage to make a real difference, but I know that as long as race cars and street cars are allowed to mingle I will be searching for a race car as my first choice.

Just thought I'd ask to see if it's ever been discussed.

You can choose a racecar if you like but I guarantee you it will be a mistake, for you. You'll be faster in the corners but get destroyed in the straights. In order to take advantage of it you'll have to do all your passing in the corners because every second you get held up in the corners, you will not gain back in the straights. You could easily be 20 km/h off the top speed limit. The only time it will help you at all is if you start at the front, but since you can only run the same lap times as anyone else, you won't gain any ground flag to flag, but you may get passed before the first corner due to much lower HP. If you dont get by that car, in the first lap, the rest of the pack is right behind you, and you'll get destroyed on the first long straight and passed by multiple cars.

Not sure we've had anyone in a race car since we went to the dual compound formula but it's guaranteed that if it has a cornering advantage it will have lower straightaway speeds. If it's someone who is 3 or 4 seconds a lap slower than the fastest drivers in equal cars, using a race car might only be enough of an advantage to keep up in the corners and therefore be equal on the straights.

Unless and until it becomes a problem, selection is still open to racecars.

 

[BrandonW77]

The CR-Z TC was hitting 109mph on the straight, same speed as the test cars you have listed.
I'm not saying it's something that needs to be addressed or it's causing a problem, I just wondered if it had been discussed.

 

[Naptown25rs]

Seriously though, we need to do a week with estates/wagons.

Seriously... I have a hot pink Volvo 240 Estate that needs to see the light of day again.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

While choosing a car for this week's events I started wondering about something. Perhaps the group has already discussed this before I was around, forgive me if it's been covered. I was wondering if it's fair to have race cars and street cars in the same race? Sure, we're tuning them to run the same exact lap times but I'd have to believe that a race car with downforce and "performance" suspension is going to have an advantage in the handling department. So when a race car is door-to-door with a street car I would guess that the race car is going to come out ahead the majority of the time because the street car won't be able to go through that corner as hard and won't be as planted.

In a series where everyone is running the same lap times the only real advantage (outside of driver skill) will be in the handling the department, so a car with aero is likely to have an advantage over a non-aero car. Perhaps it's not enough of an advantage to make a real difference, but I know that as long as race cars and street cars are allowed to mingle I will be searching for a race car as my first choice.

Just thought I'd ask to see if it's ever been discussed.

I feel the same way and that's one of the reasons I brought it up. A grid with race cars and street cars mixed is rather unsightly and doesn't make for good banner artwork. Keeping the two separate could make it easier to come up with themes in the future too, it would narrow the choices and kinda "nudge" people into a certain range of cars.

Well, long ago when we have an event at Cape Ring South, we often do races during the week, I have run a race with Cote and Iain, I was using Z33 Fairlady, Cote was driving Lancer Evo RM, and Iain in his Caterham Seven Fireblade. The race was at Cape Ring South, if you look through early pages of this thread, you will find some pictures of it, in fact, the old banner showcases all 3 of us taking one corner at very close proximity.

I don't see any issues with racing car mixed with street cars, as long as all of them meet the target time, drive clean and courteous.

Actually, here are some of them :

Cote's Evo RM was very competitive giving my Z33 lots of workout, I lost though on the main straight if not mistaken, but we were very close in corners ( handling and speed ).

 

[flesxruoyxllik]

Maybe the next time I'm in the lounge with somebody we can run a quick race to see what kind of advantage the standard interga tc has.

 

[dsgerbc]

The CR-Z TC was hitting 109mph on the straight, same speed as the test cars you have listed.
I'm not saying it's something that needs to be addressed or it's causing a problem, I just wondered if it had been discussed.

If you hit the same to speed naturally, w/o some weird gear ratios, then you're going through corners roughly at the same speed as other people.
I haven't driven the CR-Z TC, but donwforce+SH tires + 435PP sounds like you're not pushing hard enough (and that's why it seems a lot more stable through corners), or have some crazy-high rear DF so that the car pushes like mad.

Now, in general, there's nothing wrong with going for grip in corners while sacrificing some top speed relative to the target (there's no lower limit). So in theory one can come in a race car with full DF and SM tires and have to brake 2-3 times per lap when running on their own. In traffic they will lose a ton of places at the start and won't have enough space to pass in corners since there will be plenty of people there. So in a lap or two one would be several seconds behind the pack only hoping that someone crashes.

If one goes for just a bit more grip, sacrificing a bit of top speed, then it will often be enough to end up side-by-side at the corner exit , but it will be hard to make passes stick, since more often than not you'd be outdragged to the next corner, erasing OLR-legal overlap.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Maybe the next time I'm in the lounge with somebody we can run a quick race to see what kind of advantage the standard interga tc has.

We should arrange a race sometime with you and brandon, I will be using my Mazda and the March, both of you can use the race cars, it will be a good chance to get a feel of the race cars when competing with street cars. If things going well, there will only be slight adjustments necessary. My Mazda is at 415PP and close to 1500kg but capable of 1:44.058 yesterday and consistent low/mid 1:44s. While the March is at 419PP, close to 1100kg and consistent low/mid 1:44s, PB was 1:44.003. Both topping at 109/110 mph, have custom LSD + Suspension + power upgrades.

 

[SagarisGTB]

We're thinking about running an event with vintage Euro and Japanese cars at sub-400PP. Anyone think this would be a fun event?

👍👍👍

 

[iainoflo85]

👍👍👍

Agreed.

Also any race at Mt. Aso is good with me - really like that layout, also Toscana is nice.

Vintage Car Race Club
80s Nissan 240RS & Ford RS200 Road Cars
2-Speed Traffic Rally @ Wishbone Curve Mt. Aso

 

[Johnnypenso]

I was a little worried you guys would think the cars would be too slow...lol. So it looks like a vintage event is a go. Rome was the first track that came to mind, anyone else have any other suggestions? Keep in mind, even at Rome, a relatively short track, the lap time is still in the 1:40+ range (guesstimate).

Should we separate the Euro and Japanese cars (Tsukuba?) into separate events or run them together?

 

[Naptown25rs]

Seperate

 

[iainoflo85]

Yes, separate - Japanese classics are great and numerous, but best to be run separately.

And Rome is fine for the Euro classics - but so is Eiger (it's used in the World Classic Car Seasonal).

Oh and Japanese Classics at Tsukuba would be great, also. 👍

 

[BrandonW77]

If you hit the same to speed naturally, w/o some weird gear ratios, then you're going through corners roughly at the same speed as other people.
I haven't driven the CR-Z TC, but donwforce+SH tires + 435PP sounds like you're not pushing hard enough (and that's why it seems a lot more stable through corners), or have some crazy-high rear DF so that the car pushes like mad.

I was pushing it as hard as I felt comfortable pushing a FF, which probably wasn't nearly as hard as some people could push it. I'll give it some more testing and see if things change. I was running stock everything except max downforce front and back (to slow straight line speed) and some power reduction.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I was a little worried you guys would think the cars would be too slow...lol.

You kidding? Some of the best parity racing I've experienced was during the MCRC and VCRC parity events at Tsukuba and the event at Autumn Ring Mini. I'm quite disappointed that the slow car events have seemingly disappeared from this group.

 

[Naptown25rs]

you kidding? Some of the best parity racing i've experienced was during the mcrc and vcrc parity events at tsukuba and the event at autumn ring mini. I'm quite disappointed that the slow car events have seemingly disappeared from this group.

+1

 

[iainoflo85]

Yeah sub 400PP cars are great and I agree there hasn't been that many (if you don't count the 2.10 PP changes making a lot of cars sub 400PP).

 

[BrandonW77]

You kidding? Some of the best parity racing I've experienced was during the MCRC and VCRC parity events at Tsukuba and the event at Autumn Ring Mini. I'm quite disappointed that the slow car events have seemingly disappeared from this group.

I also believe that lower powered cars make for closer, better racing, and find them quite enjoyable. I'm also quite fond of all vintage cars.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You kidding? Some of the best parity racing I've experienced was during the MCRC and VCRC parity events at Tsukuba and the event at Autumn Ring Mini. I'm quite disappointed that the slow car events have seemingly disappeared from this group.

+1

I'm disappointed you guys have been around since the beginning and not one PM has entered my inbox about this!!!