DeadNutsEven - Where anyone can win!!

  • Thread starter Johnnypenso
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^ So you finally decided to use a stock Celica instead the Trial version ? Celica ZZ have very good handling even when stock 👍 but the top speed is a bit on the low side, I hope it won't struggle gaining speed reaching the corkscrew.
 
I'm not going to use the Mini Countryman. It's an otherwise very good car (for an FF :P), but has an annoying flaw. By unnaturally shifting 500 rpm below redline, you can gain a whole 2 seconds around Laguna Seca. And it's so easy to miss a shift, which can cost you a couple tenths easy.

Alfa is good, Rido. 👍
 
SagarisGTB
I'm not going to use the Mini Countryman. It's an otherwise very good car (for an FF :P), but has an annoying flaw. By unnaturally shifting 500 rpm below redline, you can gain a whole 2 seconds around Laguna Seca. And it's so easy to miss a shift, which can cost you a couple tenths easy.

Alfa is good, Rido. 👍
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Didn't know you can do that with the Countryman :dunce: Did you try my tune when you discover it ?

Thanks Sag, the Alfa is one of the hardest FF to tune.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Didn't know you can do that with the Countryman :dunce: Did you try my tune when you discover it ?
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Yes. I don't have anything to compare it to, but the car felt rather good, minimal oversteer. I would have used it if I wasn't required to shift early.
 
SagarisGTB
Yes. I don't have anything to compare it to, but the car felt rather good, minimal oversteer. I would have used it if I wasn't required to shift early.
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Sounds like the Capp RM, shifting at 7k produced better lap times than taking it to the 8k redline.
 
After the Continental tire sports car challenge im going to the lounge and post my details about the premium Intera im using.
 
For the F1 fans or fantasy sports fans in the group...

Not to jump too far off topic here, but BrandonW77 and myself are going to take part in a fantasy F1 league this season... This is the first time either of us have done anything like this, but it sounds like fun and would be a way for us to add a little extra competition and rivalry to the group.

It doesn't cost anything to join, so if you're interested, go to the following website, sign up and register your fantasy team. Once we get folks registered, we can all join a "mini league" which allows us to compete directly with each other in addition the the rest of the world.

Additional info and details can be found on the site linked below or you can contact one of us with questions.

Hope to see you all join!

Fantasy F1 League
 
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flesxruoyxllik/Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '04/Premium/413PP/Tuned/Sports medium Tires/ABSoff/112mph

Feeling good about tonite I think after the first race I should have to turn down my pp and slow down top mph
 
Cote Dazur
Thought I would share this with my fellow DNE racer

Overtaking_Legal.jpg


Particularly the part about : Only attempt an overtake if you can safely and properly pass the other car.

To me it is clear that if you have to contact the other car to pass, it does not qualify as properly.

I hope every one in our group share my opinion.:)
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If both cars enter the first part of the esses as they are in that picture both have equal rights to their own line in the corner, one car on the left, the other on the right, and both have to make allowances for the other. Neither car has the right to the best "racing line", whatever that may be in that particular corner, nor is either car required or expected to lift or give way under GTP rules. And neither car can squeeze the other towards one side of the track or the other. If both go through the corners just as they are and pop out the other side the same way they entered, side by side and never having contacted, that's perfectly legal. As Thierry points out, if one car's momentum carries it into the other, it's the car changing lanes that would be at fault in a contact situation.

Whether two cars going side by side is the fastest way through the corner for both cars and how it would impact their overall race, is a matter of racecraft and not rules. If it's two cars fighting for the lead or position near the end of the race and one thinks they have an advantage by getting alongside it's a good strategy. If it's near the beginning or middle of the race and the two cars are 2 seconds behind the lead pack, this is a dumb move on the overtaker's part, as it slows down both cars and costs them position on the track, and probably a shot at the podium or victory by doing so. They'd be far better off going through one at a time, maintaining momentum and trying to gain on the leaders. If they don't, then late in the race go for a pass anywhere you want. Early on, it's poor strategy all around if it costs you track position.

One must draw a distinction between what is "allowed" under the rules and what makes the most sense from an overall race strategy standpoint.
 
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flesxruoyxllik
Feeling good about tonite I think after the first race I should have to turn down my pp and slow down top mph
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NC and Cote and I did a couple practice races on Saturday and even with a draft I was staying right on target so at least from my end I don't see any repeats of Trial Mountain happening. Took a while to warm up to the FF's but my Civic feels very nice and really likes to be pushed, I'm confident going into the races tonight. :dopey:
 
Johnnypenso
Whether two cars going side by side is the fastest way through the corner for both cars and how it would impact their overall race, is a matter of racecraft and not rules. If it's two cars fighting for the lead or position near the end of the race and one thinks they have an advantage by getting alongside it's a good strategy. If it's near the beginning or middle of the race and the two cars are 2 seconds behind the lead pack, this is a dumb move on the overtaker's part, as it slows down both cars and costs them position on the track, and probably a shot at the podium or victory by doing so. They'd be far better off going through one at a time, maintaining momentum and trying to gain on the leaders. If they don't, then late in the race go for a pass anywhere you want. Early on, it's poor strategy all around if it costs you track position.
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I think it's far more situational than even how you put it. If you're stuck behind someone going a second slower per lap than the leaders, I'd try to get by as soon as possible. Also if someone is faster than you on the straights, it also makes sense to try and overtake when you can. That's why I tried to overtake you in such a place last week, you were considerably faster on the straight, so if I wanted to finish in a higher position, I had to get by somehow and I got a chance and took it.

I can't race this week, something came up. Good luck tonight everyone.
 
SagarisGTB
I think it's far more situational than even how you put it. If you're stuck behind someone going a second slower per lap than the leaders, I'd try to get by as soon as possible. Also if someone is faster than you on the straights, it also makes sense to try and overtake when you can. That's why I tried to overtake you in such a place last week, you were considerably faster on the straight, so if I wanted to finish in a higher position, I had to get by somehow and I got a chance and took it.

I can't race this week, something came up. Good luck tonight everyone.
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Yes of course it's situational, and we could come up with 100 examples of when it make sense to pass and not to pass and one would get read and the other 99 would not...lol. The overall point remains the same though. First priority above all is to pass clean, and within the rules, second of course is to judge when and where to pass based on the likelihood of making it stick along with whatever serves you best for the race outcome.

Johnnypenso/Peugot 207 GTi 07/Premium/404PP/Tuned/SH/NoABS/173km/h​

I'll be in the Lounge early...if I don't respond to anyone it means I've stepped away for a bit...
 
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Couldn't keep everyone together tonight but we did have some great races in packs of 2-4 once we settled in. I think the FF's deserve another shot, at a little easier track next time. Results will be up tomorrow.

Cote, Iain and a few others stuck around for a while to work on next weeks target. Looks like it's going to be Rome Reverse, 1:37, Vintage Euro Cars only, 1979 or older, top speed around 173 km/h/108mph on CS or SH tires. Q cars were the 65' Alfa around 360 PP and the Spider Duetto around 340 PP. Full details tomorrow.
 
Great racing last night guys, that's easily the most fun I've had at Laguna Seca. The FF's surprised me and I had a very enjoyable time piloting the Civic Type R......I never thought I'd say this but I look forward to the next FF event in June of 2017. 👍
 
I had some laps with my beloved British Racing Green Triumph Spitfire 1500 at 338 PP and comfort soft, 1:37s, top speed barely reaching 105mph at the end of main straight, reminds me racing at Melon's room :)
 
raceresultsbannerflagba.png

​

Monday March 11, 8PM EST​
lagunaseca144shandsmffo.jpg

Although I don't think we kept the group all together for a whole race, there was some excellent racing in smaller packs and some great dices for the lead in just about every race. I think we'll chalk this FF event up as a successful one and run another in the next few weeks.

Race 1
  1. Brandon
  2. Johnny
  3. Ferrari
  4. Iain
  5. NC
  6. Cote
  7. Flex

Race 2
  1. NC
  2. Brandon
  3. Johnny
  4. Cote
  5. Flex
  6. Iain

Race 3
  1. Brandon
  2. Flex
  3. Johnny
  4. NC
  5. Cote
  6. Iain

Race 4
  1. Iain
  2. Ferrari
  3. Cote
  4. Johnny
  5. NC DNF
 
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Monday March 18, 8PM EST​
romereverse137csandshvi.jpg

Q cars:
Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600 65’, 355PP, 164km/h
Alfa Romeo Spider Duetto 66’, 331PP, 164 km/h

Top speed limit at end of front straight: 172km/h / 107mph

This is a dual compound race on Comfort Soft and Sports Hards

If you cannot stay below the Max Speed on CS Tires, you must switch to SH.
Car selection is open to 1979 or earlier, vintage European Cars only on stock rims only.​

Heat 1: 4 laps, fastest first
Heat 2: 5 laps, reverse grid
Race 1, 2 and 3: 9 laps, reverse grid. ​

Note: Qualify your car in no more than 5 laps. The tires aren't even warm at this point and I'm not sure if they'll even get up to temperature. All my runs were 5 laps or less, best laps being laps 3-5.
 
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Johnnypenso
Note: Qualify your car in no more than 5 laps. The tires aren't even warm at this point and I'm not sure if they'll even get up to temperature. All my runs were 5 laps or less, best laps being laps 3-5.
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I don't follow this part? I don't get to really know the car/track combo until I have at least 15-20 laps under my belt. While my lap 5 time may be on target my lap 20 time will likely be .5-1 second faster because I'll be more comfortable. If I made my car selection after just 5 laps in it I would constantly be dialing back power and adding ballast during pre-race practice as I got more familiar with the car/track. This means I would go into the races without being confident that I had a car producing legal lap times.
 
Might be that we can run as much laps as we like, but when we are comfortable with the car's tune and track, do a short 5 hotlaps sessions, and take a note of the times, we should be consistent while getting as close as possible to the target time.
 
BrandonW77
I don't follow this part? I don't get to really know the car/track combo until I have at least 15-20 laps under my belt. While my lap 5 time may be on target my lap 20 time will likely be .5-1 second faster because I'll be more comfortable. If I made my car selection after just 5 laps in it I would constantly be dialing back power and adding ballast during pre-race practice as I got more familiar with the car/track. This means I would go into the races without being confident that I had a car producing legal lap times.
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The tires are not warm after 5 laps so if you continue to run laps the tires will get warmer and warmer and the times will fall. However the race is not 20 laps so those warm tire laps will not happen in the actual races and you could end up off pace. In our usual 400-430PP CS/SH racing that's not an issue as the tires are usually up to temp in 3-4 laps.

So run your 15 or 20 laps or whatever you prefer, learn the track, come into the pits, then run 4-5 laps and use that lap time as your Q time.

EDIT: Didn't see Rido's post, but that's the gist of it too...lol.
 
Makes sense. I'd think we should target the longest race though, if your times are legal after 9 laps then you should be legal for all races. 👍
 
BrandonW77
Makes sense. I'd think we should target the longest race though, if your times are legal after 9 laps then you should be legal for all races. 👍
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Technically you are correct, but it also means every time you make an adjustment to the car you need to run 9 laps to check how it affects lap times. One could easily end up having to run 60-80 +laps to get ready for the race and I thought it was a bit much, which is why I pegged it at 5 laps. It's a trade off between technical perfection and a possibly onerous amount of time to get ready for a fun race:)
 
BrandonW77
Makes sense. I'd think we should target the longest race though, if your times are legal after 9 laps then you should be legal for all races. 👍
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That's how I usually do things when I set up my cars... I run stints the length of the longest race distance and adjust accordingly depending on if I'm under or over target.

EDIT: I only do this when I'm fine tuning and making minor adjustments after I'm 90% dialed in.
 
If anyone wants to do some extensive testing to determine the effects on lap times of longer runs, please post the results here.

By the way, anyone searching for a car, the Alfa Romeo Spider Duetto is an absolutely beautiful car at Rome. Solid and stable, lots of grip, and the gearbox is also pretty close ratio, you'll even get into 5th gear a couple of times. The Alfa Guilia is also a good car, great sound, same gearbox I think as the Spider, just a little looser than that Spider, although nothing crazy. Both great cars.
 
I am tuning VW Beetle 1200, Karmann Ghia, Schwimmwagen, Kubelwagen, Samba Bus, 500F, don't know if any of them will be competitive :lol:
 
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