Deltawing just went missing! UPDATE: Reappeared, but got a child.
- Thread starter dr_slump
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- Canada
Agreed. 👍 Not bothering me either.Meh. I'm not all that disappointed that the Deltawing is gone. I still have my Racing Kart S125 and Gran Turismo Arena to play with along with hundreds of other cars!
- 243
- Norway
- ZeroTheNorth
- ZEROTHENORTH
Sad that the Deltawing might be gone. But this isnt the first time that this has happened.
But i dont care because BRZ GT300!!
But i dont care because BRZ GT300!!
- 12,893
- Divided States of America
- MikuHime80
- 15,460
- Orange County, NY
- GTP_GT916
- Nii916
Sad to see it possibly go, but come on, there's a whole array of cars in this game. Unless they pull the chain on the rest of them, which obviously won't happen.
- 110
- Canada
Nooooooooooooooo why why why curse you pd. oh whats the point i still want dec 6 to hurry up ffs cuz i want my preorder i cant wait any longer
- 1,274
- Denver,Miami,Vegas
- terryparker15
What are we going to do now? Not the Delta Wing OMG! Why PD Why how could you do this to me(personally). After all that Ive done for you you go and remove the DW from the website that clearly starts off with a declaimer on the very first line stating SUBJUCT TO CHANGE. Why oh why would you do what you said you were going to do and change the list. 
I'm not losing any sleep. When it gets there it gets there. I'm still expecting a certain Italian Supercar that PD was caught pictures of along with its British Touring Car sister and all words have been hushed ever since.
I'm not losing any sleep. When it gets there it gets there. I'm still expecting a certain Italian Supercar that PD was caught pictures of along with its British Touring Car sister and all words have been hushed ever since.
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- 4,741
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Piazza del Capo all :censored:ing over again.
- 1,238
- Humboldt / CA
- GT-R_HumboldtEF
Not sure its been mentioned in this long thread but Nissan was only a partner in the developement of this car, now they are out, and Panoz is taking over.
Don Panoz has taken over the development of this race car without Nissan, so this rift may be reflected in the "Nissan" being removed from the deltawing moniker.
I expect to see it under a different manufacture.
Don Panoz has taken over the development of this race car without Nissan, so this rift may be reflected in the "Nissan" being removed from the deltawing moniker.
I expect to see it under a different manufacture.
- 4,741
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That's the thing. Deltawing is actually none of both. As far as I know, it was produced by a joint-effort called "All American Racers", dubbed the DeltaWing since the beggining of the project by the designer Ben Bowlby but it was Nissan who took all the credit at Le Mans up to the point people actually think it's a Nissan when it actually is an AMR tub with an american bodywork and just the Nissan engine.
EDIT: Wikipedia got it right:
The entry was run under the Project 56 name, composed of Ben Bowlby's DeltaWing Racing Cars (design), Dan Gurney's All American Racers (constructor), Duncan Dayton's Highcroft Racing (racing team) and International Motor Sports Association owner Don Panoz (advisor). Nissan's NISMO division also assisted in the development of the car.
The Vanishing Boy
Premium
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- Quezon City, Philippines & Las Vegas, NV
- GTP_VanishingBoy
- Vanishing Boy
-> As much as I loved the DeltaWing in real life, removing it from GT6 doesn't bother me much. Since were discussing about PD here, they have a knack of deleting/romoving a lot of stuff. Just look at my past posts... 
- 1,413
- Netherlands
Subject: Car #36 Deltawing!
They stole it, kidnapped it, hijacked it, ahh whatever,
BUT IT'S MISSING NOW!!!
Evidence:
Old car list, copied and pasted from the official site and now in the GTP news section: https://www.gtplanet.net/gt6-car-list/
New car list: http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/products/gt6/
(region doesn't matter)
Why... why... just why...
Ok now all they need to do it remove the remaining 600 standard models and I might buy it! ^-^
- 40,886
The Deltawing was, as pointed out above, a bunch of separate efforts by distinct groups to bring the car to Le Mans. Now only one of those groups still has anything to do with it, and while the original car was announced for GT6 after the strong rumors of Panoz's outrageous requirements to include it in a game (a million dollars for the licence, according to Famine) and after the Nissan and AAR-free ugly silver coupe Deltawing was shown off, it was before the mess with the ZEOD I believe.
On the other hand... the car was just in the newest trailer that was released at the same time as the newest car list, so...
On the other hand... the car was just in the newest trailer that was released at the same time as the newest car list, so...
- 966
- Tennessee
- Bobert962C
It this the "human drama" Kaz was wanting this whole time? I think it is.
- 3,766
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- The359
The most likely reason I can think of is that there are in fact three versions of the DeltaWing. The first, designed by Ben Bowlby for Garage 56 at Le Mans, was built by All American Racers (AAR), campaigned by Highcroft Racing, and backed by Nissan and Nismo. The car featured a 2.0 straight-4 with a Nissan DIG-T direct injection system. Nissan provided most of the funding for the project and was thus entered as the "Nissan DeltaWing", and the car competed in 2 events in 2012 - Le Mans and Petit Le Mans. The car was specifically designed to race at a pace similar to LMP2 class cars because the ACO did not want an unclassified car which did not meet their ruleset to be able to compete for the overall race victory.
In 2013, Don Panoz bought DeltaWing Racing Cars and their intellectual properties. This effectively took the car out of the hands of AAR, Highcroft, and Bowlby himself, and severed the company's ties with Nissan. Panoz planned to use a turbocharged Mazda 1.6 straight-4, tweaked by his own in-house Elan Motorsports arm, to produce more power and move the car into the LMP1 category. The car was redesignated the DeltaWing "LM12." This car ran the majority of the 2013 ALMS season as an LMP1 until it was replaced by the DeltaWing Coupe, "DWC13".
The car featured in GT6 is the Nissan DeltaWing, and likely part of a licensing agreement between PD and Nissan, with Bowlby also approving of the agreement since he now works for Nissan on the ZEOD RC. However, Panoz does in fact own the physical design of the DeltaWing, so Nissan's permission is likely not enough to include the car in the game. In short, because the original design changed ownership, Nissan no longer has control over a car they marketed.
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As for the "gimmick" of the DeltaWing design, the car is meant to address several issues in the modern racing world, specifically Le Mans endurance racing. First, it is extremely light compared to the 900kg cars in LMP, not only because of its narrow front track but also because of its construction. Since it is so light, a smaller, less powerful engine is all that is needed to equal the lap times of an LMP car. The original Nissan powerplant was a mere 200hp, yet equal on pace with the majority of the LMP2 field. LMP2 pole qualifying time at Le Mans in 2012 - 3:38.1, DeltaWing qualifying time at Le Mans - 3:42.6, on its first ever competitive outing, slowest LMP2 on the grid - 3:48.0.
Because the engine is not only low in horsepower, but also not a stressed member of the chassis, the engine possibilities are not only endless, but relatively cheap, since a simple production motor can handle the job. In fact the Nissan unit was in actuality an older WTCC unit adapted with direct injection. And since such a lower power engine saves on fuel economy, you need to make less pit stops. Do you think Audi switched to diesels because of a gimmick, or because it gives them an advantage in endurance racing since they use less fuel?
Further, because of the light weight, and even with its unique tire design, the DeltaWing was able to quadruple stint its tires, saving further cost for teams and improving its race performance by lowering its amount of time stopped for tire changes. Now, bear in mind that at Le Mans, Highcroft and the DeltaWing team specifically did not attempt to save time in the pits through this method, in fact the car had to be wheeled into the garage every time they wanted to change tires because an appropriate jacking system was not in use yet. But still, the point is there, the DeltaWing uses less tires and less fuel and thus requires less pit stops. That is an advantage, not a gimmick.
So in the end you have a car that is able to match the cars of today with a radical rethink of race car design, has better performance potential thanks to its design and weight savings, and is likely to buy for the majority of racing teams. Add to this the ZEOD RC, which is attempting to complete a lap of Le Mans under full electric power. Light weight is key to making electric vehicles work, so the DeltaWing design is perfect for the project. Nissan isn't just trying a marketing gimmick, the ZEOD RC is part of their development for a 2015/16 LMP1 for the company.
As for the struggles of the DeltaWing in 2013 and its lack of pace and/or endurance, the answer to that is simple - Panoz doesn't have the man power or money to make the car work properly, has lesser drivers involved, is attempting to build his own bespoke engine unit for the car without much success, and concetrating much of his time and money on the development of a coupe version. The 2013 car is effectively worth ignoring.
In 2013, Don Panoz bought DeltaWing Racing Cars and their intellectual properties. This effectively took the car out of the hands of AAR, Highcroft, and Bowlby himself, and severed the company's ties with Nissan. Panoz planned to use a turbocharged Mazda 1.6 straight-4, tweaked by his own in-house Elan Motorsports arm, to produce more power and move the car into the LMP1 category. The car was redesignated the DeltaWing "LM12." This car ran the majority of the 2013 ALMS season as an LMP1 until it was replaced by the DeltaWing Coupe, "DWC13".
The car featured in GT6 is the Nissan DeltaWing, and likely part of a licensing agreement between PD and Nissan, with Bowlby also approving of the agreement since he now works for Nissan on the ZEOD RC. However, Panoz does in fact own the physical design of the DeltaWing, so Nissan's permission is likely not enough to include the car in the game. In short, because the original design changed ownership, Nissan no longer has control over a car they marketed.
-
As for the "gimmick" of the DeltaWing design, the car is meant to address several issues in the modern racing world, specifically Le Mans endurance racing. First, it is extremely light compared to the 900kg cars in LMP, not only because of its narrow front track but also because of its construction. Since it is so light, a smaller, less powerful engine is all that is needed to equal the lap times of an LMP car. The original Nissan powerplant was a mere 200hp, yet equal on pace with the majority of the LMP2 field. LMP2 pole qualifying time at Le Mans in 2012 - 3:38.1, DeltaWing qualifying time at Le Mans - 3:42.6, on its first ever competitive outing, slowest LMP2 on the grid - 3:48.0.
Because the engine is not only low in horsepower, but also not a stressed member of the chassis, the engine possibilities are not only endless, but relatively cheap, since a simple production motor can handle the job. In fact the Nissan unit was in actuality an older WTCC unit adapted with direct injection. And since such a lower power engine saves on fuel economy, you need to make less pit stops. Do you think Audi switched to diesels because of a gimmick, or because it gives them an advantage in endurance racing since they use less fuel?
Further, because of the light weight, and even with its unique tire design, the DeltaWing was able to quadruple stint its tires, saving further cost for teams and improving its race performance by lowering its amount of time stopped for tire changes. Now, bear in mind that at Le Mans, Highcroft and the DeltaWing team specifically did not attempt to save time in the pits through this method, in fact the car had to be wheeled into the garage every time they wanted to change tires because an appropriate jacking system was not in use yet. But still, the point is there, the DeltaWing uses less tires and less fuel and thus requires less pit stops. That is an advantage, not a gimmick.
So in the end you have a car that is able to match the cars of today with a radical rethink of race car design, has better performance potential thanks to its design and weight savings, and is likely to buy for the majority of racing teams. Add to this the ZEOD RC, which is attempting to complete a lap of Le Mans under full electric power. Light weight is key to making electric vehicles work, so the DeltaWing design is perfect for the project. Nissan isn't just trying a marketing gimmick, the ZEOD RC is part of their development for a 2015/16 LMP1 for the company.
As for the struggles of the DeltaWing in 2013 and its lack of pace and/or endurance, the answer to that is simple - Panoz doesn't have the man power or money to make the car work properly, has lesser drivers involved, is attempting to build his own bespoke engine unit for the car without much success, and concetrating much of his time and money on the development of a coupe version. The 2013 car is effectively worth ignoring.
- 609
- Kingwood, TX, U
- parabulla
I think it's a real shame Panoz has decided to play hardball with his patents. I didn't like the concept when it was proposed as the new Indycar, but I've become more interested in it's qualities over time. At this point though, you can't have raced a car design in a competitive environment and then claim only you have exclusive rights to the design. This isn't cereal boxes we're talking about here, they're rare handbuilt machines that get replaced as soon as the next development leap comes along. Put a cork in it Don, you're starting to act like Bernie.
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- Bogota,Colombia
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