zzz_pt
Premium
- 8,188
- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
The BMW is on his brakes the whole time. What are you talking about? Srsly man.
Did I cause this crash?
- Thread starter CopperySinger
- 91 comments
- 3,831 views
The BMW is on his brakes the whole time. What are you talking about? Srsly man.
- 3,232
- Blackpool
- ghostrider135
Both players replays could potentially be different, Accounting for visible lag of the opposing player etc
- 2,138
- Wales
- ARC_rono_thomas
Your talking about racing to loose.
It is totally Mr Lex at fault he may have got his nose in front but the speed he retains to do that meant that he needed all the tarmac to make the next corner, which wasn’t available to him. So contact. There is no more the OP could do other than give up the position to avoid contact from a crazy racer, two cars trying to occupy the same piece of tarmac won’t work anywhere.
- 2,229
- Canada
- BaronBlitzRed
- 86,844
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
We do see that on the video, but that simply shows what his device recorded the Lexus as doing. That's not necessarily the same as what the Lexus is doing.
It's part of any network play that some information is lost in the process. Your device records your car, and it uses the information it receives to work out where the others are. That isn't 100% faithful to where they actually are, it's just where your device thinks they are. That's why other cars on your own replays always seem a little jittery.
I don't reckon it will be hugely different, although the Lexus is likely to be driving more smoothly on his own device while the BMWs are more jittery.
What are you watching?
The BMW is on the brakes for a full five seconds before the Lexus hits him. The Lexus hits the brakes 1.5 seconds later, and lets off them again shortly after:
Nobody braking:
BMW braking:
Lexus braking:
Lexus not braking:
Lexus braking:
Lexus braking (and spearing leftwards across the track while BMW holds its line... and braking):
Lexus not braking again:
Lexus braking again:
- 1,245
- Greece
You make a lot of assumptions there about what both drivers were thinking. In my humble opinion it looks entirely like the Lexus was doing no thinking whatsoever other than "must win, must win..." he was driving like an absolute muppet long before they got to that corner and it's an absolute miracle he didn't completely wipeout the other guy when he swerved back onto the track. The OP could in no way possibly know what to expect or make any attempt to avoid that muppet. The Lexus is entirely in the wrong and I shall hear no more arguments otherwise!
By that post you prove my point.You may not like it but:
"Lexus was doing no thinking whatsoever" I agree,its my point too,There is no way to go 2 wide there.They both have to undestand that btw.
"driving lke a muppet long before".I agree.So in fact OP should actually know that this Lexus guy is in that "must win...must win" mode.Actually a lot of people drive like this in GTS online when they are in that part of Green Hell.
Thats why I wrote "lack of awereness" from both drivers.I never wrote "its OP fault and that Lexus has a right to complain."
None of them wanted to give up.They both expected the other to do so.
I wrote that and explained it.
Let me ask you this:You are OP in that straight,before that corner with the Lexus in your right.
Would you be 100% sure that Lexus is going to back off?
If not would you break early or follow your line and hope for the best (if you want to make sure there is not going to be any kind of contact that could propably cost you 1or 2 or more positions)?
OP made a simple Q:was it my fault or not?
IMO the moment you go 2 wide (or try to) in that part of that track you are making a mistake.And in this case the "non clean driver" is a little in front,has more speed,propably not total control of his car and he is not thinking as he should.Its my choice to play a drag ot "chicken" race and its gonna have the same result every single time.
- 381
- stevenhiggster
I see your point and understand what you are saying. Kind of agree.
- 780
- United States
zzz_pt
Premium
- 8,188
- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
The OP was braking the whole time. How would you brake beyond braking?
- 780
- United States
- 3,232
- Blackpool
- ghostrider135
Not giving the following car racing room, As I said on the previous page Mr Lexus was heading down the track much, much faster this was evident in the wing mirrors, Maybe that is why Mr Lexus seemed all over the place maybe he was trying to find some actual room on the track which the OP initially did not give, If OP had yielded sooner by not being slap bang in the middle of the track with a vastly faster car approaching Mr Lexus probably would have made a clean pass.
- 780
- United States
OP can be wherever he wants to be as long as he is not weaving, he is the lead car. It is the passer's responsibility to pass safely. He failed.
- 3,232
- Blackpool
- ghostrider135
Ever heard of racing ettiquette?
Let me break it down for you a leading car should give adequate room for a faster driver to attempt an overtake, No attempt was given at taking a line that allows a faster car a chance to pass, Being slap bang in the middle of the track is not giving respect to other drivers.
- 381
- stevenhiggster
Yes and blocking is perfectly aloud as long as it is done in a safe manner. Just because the car behind you is faster doesn't mean you have to let him through! He has to make his way past, safely.
Go and watch any Monaco GP from the last 40 years and you will clearly see examples of faster cars that cannot get past safely, and thus don't get past. It is very rarely the fastest car that wins the Monaco GP.
- 780
- United States
Complete ********.
zzz_pt
Premium
- 8,188
- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
OP is not in the middle of the track. Also, he could have blocked the Lexus once and he didn't even do that. He kept a smooth line throughout since the moment he overtook the other BMW.
- 3,232
- Blackpool
- ghostrider135
And he could make his way past safely if OP had used some racing etiquette and gave him racing room to begin with, As such this didn't happen and it all stems from that point, Maybe Mr Lexus got impatient at not being given racing room (Quite understandable) maybe that is why he got on the grass and started losing control, If OP had given room the whole incident could and would have been avoided.
- 780
- United States
Later. You guys can continue this circular argument if you want.
- 381
- stevenhiggster
I'm sorry but you are absolutely wrong, you do not have to leave anyone anything! You must not move in an erratic way such as to cause an avoidable collision, but you are perfectly entitled to leave no room whatsoever! It is and always will be the following cars job to make sure he passes cleanly regardless of what the leading car does!
- 86,844
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Which he is not obliged to do. As the lead car he may pick his line and braking point as he sees fit.
Ahahahaha no. You may make one defensive move and must not weave, but other than that you can pick your line and braking point as you see fit. If you have to give room to a following driver in case they don't bother braking, you wouldn't be permitted to take a defensive line ever.
Once a car is alongside, you must not crowd them off the track, but the only time the Lexus was alongside was when he hadn't bothered braking and then chopped across the BMW as if he wasn't there.
It's not like the BMW even defended anything. In fact it didn't even defend the exit to Antoniusbusche - he was way over to the left - but then took the natural racing line through Tiergarten and was about to do the same with Hohenrain.
And aside from all of that, the Lexus gained an advantage from leaving the track and rejoined in an unsafe manner well before Tiergarten. He shouldn't have been where he was in order to even attempt the pass, which he could never have completed due to missing his braking point by about 250 feet.
- 1,245
- Greece
That is correct.The car behind has to do a pass in a clean manner.The car in front has to pick one line defending and keep that line.In this case they are side by side (Lexus is actually a little in front) in the breaking zone.They both force the issue by not backing up.That is a fault by both of them.
Lexus also was reckless:another fault of his.
- 2,229
- Canada
- BaronBlitzRed
- 381
- stevenhiggster
Again not entirely true, you are allowed to make one change of line to block before the braking zone, then you are allowed, as long as the other car is not inside you at this point, to move back onto the racing line to take the corner.
Fact is the Lexus was still driving like an idiot before during and after the contact, and whether OP was there or not, would never have gotten round that corner.
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- 24
- United States
When I used to road race motorcycles in a club it was the responsibility of the passer to make a clean pass. The person leading only has be predictable and can run any line they like. On a motorcycle you only need the space of a door to make a pass. We used to use a tactic called making yourself as wide as possible. That’s part of racecraft.
I feel the OP was predictable and the the guy in the Lexus shouldn’t have made the pass where he did. In a real race situations like that get people killed.
Just because someone is faster doesn’t mean you pull over and give up the position. I’ve had to follow slower guys for laps before finding an opportunity. With my bike and setup I was usually faster in the corners and overall but they usually had more speed in the straights as I was always running a bone stock 600cc engine. Anyways that’s my opinion.
I feel the OP was predictable and the the guy in the Lexus shouldn’t have made the pass where he did. In a real race situations like that get people killed.
Just because someone is faster doesn’t mean you pull over and give up the position. I’ve had to follow slower guys for laps before finding an opportunity. With my bike and setup I was usually faster in the corners and overall but they usually had more speed in the straights as I was always running a bone stock 600cc engine. Anyways that’s my opinion.
- 1,245
- Greece
100% correct.
Now the problem is that in the breaking zone they are side by side -fact-.There is also no way to make it two wide there-fact-.In another corner that people can go two wide,everyone keeps his possition and give room to the other car.But this is not an option here.
So,who has to back off?
OP has better overall line,better control of his car but he is not in front (in fact Lexus is a 10-20 mm infront because he went in there with more speed).
Lexus is really in an attack mode "no matter what" to make that pass work,he has more speed,in the outside (and not in the inside) and propably is not going to make it even if OP says "Go ahead mate".
So did OP made the right decision to actually force the issue and keep the line no matter the cost?IMO no,thats is his fault.He did not in any way make any kind of dirty move but he did not avoid that situation (imo he had a change to do that but he did not).
Did Lexus has the right to say that OP caused this?Again (imo) no,because of his overall behavior (even though he went off track in an efford not to hit anyone making that pass in the 2nd place car) plus this (pass) was never going to work if OP does not back up -something that he does not know-.
If there was a penalty Lexus has more reasons to get one that OP and would be a legit call.
That does not mean that OP made all the right decisions.
- 86,844
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
By doing what? He was as far left as he could go without hitting the barrier and was on the brakes from the moment he was alongside the braking marker cones. By the video, the Lexus braked over a second later, got alongside on the right and swerved across the track right to left, putting the BMW into the barrier.
The BMW couldn't have braked any more, and couldn't have been any more left. What was his chance to avoid this collision?
- 1,068
- Raleigh, NC
- booch16
In my humble opinion I do not think you caused the accident, but theoretically I could see the game detecting your behavior has early braking. The Lexus was doing other things wrong as well, but I don't normally start braking anywhere near that area in any class. I'm not blaming anyone, just offering what the game may have seen.
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